England Team v Baa Baas

Well the team is up. Inexperienced but certainly looks attacking.

Whats your thoughts

England XV to face Barbarians:

1 R Harrison (Sale),
2 R Buchanan (Harlequins),
3 K Sinkler (Harlequins),
4 M Paterson (Sale),
5 G Kitchener (Leicester) (capt),
6 J Gibson (Leicester),
7 L Wallace (Harlequins),
8 D Ewers (Exeter).

9 J Simpson (Wasps)
10 H Slade (Exeter) Vice Captain
11 C Sharples (Gloucester)
12 S Hill (Exeter)
13 J Joseph (Bath)
14 S Rokoduguni (Bath)
15 E Daly (Wasps)

Replacements: T Taylor (Sale), F Balmain (Leicester), W Collier, C Matthews (both Harlequins), J Gaskell (Sale), D Robson (Gloucester), O Devoto (Bath), R Miller (Sale)




Barbarians squad:

Backs: Jimmy Cowan (Gloucester & New Zealand), Tomas Cubelli (Belgrano & Argentina), Hosea Gear (Toulouse & New Zealand), Juan Martin Hernandez (Racing Metro & Argentina), Brock James (Clermont), James O'Connor (London Irish & Australia), Rene Ranger (Montpellier & New Zealand), Joe Rokocoko (Bayonne & New Zealand), Benson Stanley (Clermont & New Zealand), Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier & France).

Forwards: Julien Brugnaut (Racing Metro & France), Schalk Ferreira (Toulouse), Mamuka Gorgodze (Montpellier & Georgia), Andrew Hore (Highlanders & New Zealand), Juandre Kruger (Racing Metro & South Africa), Alexandre Lapandry (Clermont & France), Juan Manuel Leguizamon (Lyon & Argentina), Nahuel Lobo (Montpellier & Argentina), Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster & Ireland), Ti'i Paulo (Clermont & Samoa), Sona Taumalolo (Perpignan & Tonga), Joe Tekori (Toulouse & Samoa), Roger Wilson (Ulster & Ireland), Davit Zirakashvili (Clermont & Georgia).

Pack looks reasonable given it's about 6th choice. What Patterson is doing there lord alone knows, he's not even running the line-out!

Gibson, Wallace, Ewers BR follows the Woodshaw pattern nicely. Sinckler starting ahead of Collier puts him in pole to be one if the travellers to NZ. Sharples or Roko could tour as well.

Daly at FB makes sense a) given his defence at OC recently and Joseph's good recent form. Hill at 12 is a riding star. Lot of responsibility on young Slade's shoulders with being VC as well.

Good continuity from the Saxons though. Nice to see some joined up thinking for once.

This game should be a stand alone cracker. Some great Baa Baas backs and a number of England players given the opportunity of the big stage.

The most impressive thing for me is that all the English players are 25 or under

Hope Wilson gets some good time on the pitch, flying the flag for us- he totally deserves it. He's going to South Africa to play for a World XV after this as well.

I like the team from 5 backwards, not sure how that front row will fare. Should be a good running game, plenty of excitement in both back lines. The way injuries are going it wouldn't be a surprise if a good performance here got a call for nz too.

Devoto is on the bench for England and started the season in the bath academy, a pretty successful season then! Should be a great experience for him.

It seems a very experimental England side, is it billed as 'England' or a development side?

bedfordwelsh wrote:It seems a very experimental England side, is it billed as 'England' or a development side?

RFU has it as England XV & it is what it is because of scheduling mostly 4/5/6th choice players but shows good depth & opportunity for a lot of youngsters.

I do think it would have been more worthwhile starting Matthews at lock with Stooke or Barrow on the bench. Not happy with Patterson in there.

Aside from that it could be a decent game to watch with a a chance to have a little glimpse at a few players that could challenge for senior spots in the very near future.

I'm assuming this isn't capped ?

You are assuming correctly.

No, no caps for this game

Figures. Sure they put out a better side last year ?

munkian wrote:Figures. Sure they put out a better side last year ?

From memory it was a similar standard, though perhaps with better known names. Didn't Sharples and Yarde play?

I think so. It was on the same day as the Rabbo final when Ospreys beat Leinster wasn't it ?

I just remember being in Dublin airport and peeing next to Rob Howley

I don't think England ever cap Barbarians games.

Wales have done but I think one of those was just to ensure Martyn Williams got 100 caps.

No I don't think England have ever capped Barbarians games (I think Wales are the only union to do that). At least recently.

Last year it was

15. Mike Brown
14. Christian Wade
13. Jonathon Joseph
12. Billy Twelvetrees
11. Marland Yarde
10. Freddie Burns
9. Richard Wigglesworth
1. Alex Corbisiero
2. Rob Webber
3. David Wilson
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Dave Attwood
6. Tom Johnson
7. Matt Kvesic
8. Ben Morgan

So a lot better (although I don't think any of these were first choice, other than Corbisiero (who was coming back from injury?))

munkian wrote:I think so. It was on the same day as the Rabbo final when Ospreys beat Leinster wasn't it ?

I just remember being in Dublin airport and peeing next to Rob Howley

That's a bit harsh. Was it while he was waiting for his luggage?

HammerofThunor wrote:No I don't think England have ever capped Barbarians games (I think Wales are the only union to do that). At least recently.

Last year it was

15. Mike Brown
14. Christian Wade  
13. Jonathon Joseph  
12. Billy Twelvetrees  
11. Marland Yarde
10. Freddie Burns  
9. Richard Wigglesworth  
1. Alex Corbisiero  
2. Rob Webber  
3. David Wilson  
4. Joe Launchbury  
5. Dave Attwood
6. Tom Johnson  
7. Matt Kvesic  
8. Ben Morgan  

So a lot better (although I don't think any of these were first choice, other than Corbisiero (who was coming back from injury?))

That's a good squad. Although it might just be because a number of them have now stepped up to seniors.

I like the look of the squad this time round. Plenty of attacking threat, and a vicious looking front row!

bluestonevedder wrote:

munkian wrote:I think so. It was on the same day as the Rabbo final when Ospreys beat Leinster wasn't it ?

I just remember being in Dublin airport and peeing next to Rob Howley

That's a bit harsh. Was it while he was waiting for his luggage?

He picked Priestland over Biggar mun !   

It's a more experienced squad, if nothing else. Brown, 36, Launchbury and Morgan were all established test starters by that point, though Brown was still on the wing, and Attwood, Wilson and Johnson had had bench time.

What's a little worrying is how few of the tryouts have progressed to the main squad. Injury has been an issue for Yarde and Wade, but Joseph, Burns and Kvesic have lost their way a bit.

Considering who isn't available I'm really happy with the current squad.

Last year's was 'pretty' close to the test team for the first Argentina game. Close to the strongest side we could put out, due to injuries and Lions duty.

Poorfour wrote:It's a more experienced squad, if nothing else. Brown, 36, Launchbury and Morgan were all established test starters by that point, though Brown was still on the wing, and Attwood, Wilson and Johnson had had bench time.

What's a little worrying is how few of the tryouts have progressed to the main squad. Injury has been an issue for Yarde and Wade, but Joseph, Burns and Kvesic have lost their way a bit.

Kvesic's really struggled, but I think it's unfair to rest his poor season entirely on his own shoulders. Gloucester's tight five have been very poor, and I'm hoping that the return of Savage and Afoa arriving, we might see him come into his own again.

Last year against Argentina I thought he was really decent. He was playing behind a better pack so it's not entirely coincidental.

Joseph's fallen by the wayside too. Although by all accounts, he's had some excellent games for Bath this season and is finding some form again?

munkian wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

munkian wrote:I think so. It was on the same day as the Rabbo final when Ospreys beat Leinster wasn't it ?

I just remember being in Dublin airport and peeing next to Rob Howley

That's a bit harsh. Was it while he was waiting for his luggage?

He picked Priestland over Biggar mun !   

Fair point. I'd have marked my territory all over him too if I were a Welsh fan!

bluestonevedder wrote:

Poorfour wrote:It's a more experienced squad, if nothing else. Brown, 36, Launchbury and Morgan were all established test starters by that point, though Brown was still on the wing, and Attwood, Wilson and Johnson had had bench time.

What's a little worrying is how few of the tryouts have progressed to the main squad. Injury has been an issue for Yarde and Wade, but Joseph, Burns and Kvesic have lost their way a bit.

Kvesic's really struggled, but I think it's unfair to rest his poor season entirely on his own shoulders. Gloucester's tight five have been very poor, and I'm hoping that the return of Savage and Afoa arriving, we might see him come into his own again.

Last year against Argentina I thought he was really decent. He was playing behind a better pack so it's not entirely coincidental.

Joseph's fallen by the wayside too. Although by all accounts, he's had some excellent games for Bath this season and is finding some form again?

Yep have to agree, it's getting a bit OTT on the Kvesic front. Yes he's not had the impact he's had, certainly last season but there has been a number of factors which have contributed to that. Some of the games i've seen him play he's done very well and been pretty industrious without being outstanding.

At present fot T1 it would have to be Haskell starting with Johnson on the bench for me.

The games towards the latter part of the season I've been impressed with Kvesic. Also Jospeh has been hit with injury and is working his way back (and again, looking good at the end of the season).

Barbarians XV

15. J M Hernandez (Racing Metro, Argentina)
14. J Rokocoko (Bayonne, New Zealand)
13. R Ranger (Montpellier, New Zealand)
12. B Stanley (Clermont, New Zealand)
11. H Gear (Toulouse, New Zealand)
10. B James (Clermont)
9. J Cowan (Gloucester, New Zealand)

1. S Taumalolo (Perpignan, Tonga)
2. T Paulo (Clermont, Samoa)
3. D Kubriashvili (Stade Francais, Georgia)
4. D O'Callaghan (Munster, Ireland)
5. J Kruger (Racing Metro, South Africa)
6. J M Leguizamon (Lyon, Argentina, capt)
7. A Lapandry (Clermont, France)
8. M Gorgodze (Montpellier, Georgia).

16. A Hore (Maniototo, New Zealand), 17. J Brugnaut (Racing Metro, France), 18. N Lobo (Toulouse, Samoa), 19. J Tekori (Toulouse, Samoa), 20. R Wilson (Ulster, Ireland), 21. T Cubelli (Belgrano, Argentina), 22. F Trinh-Duc (Montpellier, France), 23. A Tuitavake (Montpellier, New Zealand).

I do like the Barbarians' backrow

Bluddy hell. Good luck England, they will need it.
What a monstrous pack

Hope both teams play an open game. Australia played the game like a test match and kicked for points, hi-light of the game was Stringer nicking the ball when they took too long to convert

Jhamer25 wrote:Bluddy hell. Good luck England, they will need it.
What a monstrous pack

Absolutely monstrous.

I'm thinking that our young front 3 will really take it to the BaBaas, but that our locks and backrow might be overwhelmed.

These days the Barbarians really should be called The France-Based SH Mercenaries (+ a few mates).

Yeesh, looks a damn good side. You can bet your bottom dollar Ryan will be itching to put one over on this team. We could suffer if that BR get to run free.

Chjw131 wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Poorfour wrote:It's a more experienced squad, if nothing else. Brown, 36, Launchbury and Morgan were all established test starters by that point, though Brown was still on the wing, and Attwood, Wilson and Johnson had had bench time.

What's a little worrying is how few of the tryouts have progressed to the main squad. Injury has been an issue for Yarde and Wade, but Joseph, Burns and Kvesic have lost their way a bit.

Kvesic's really struggled, but I think it's unfair to rest his poor season entirely on his own shoulders. Gloucester's tight five have been very poor, and I'm hoping that the return of Savage and Afoa arriving, we might see him come into his own again.

Last year against Argentina I thought he was really decent. He was playing behind a better pack so it's not entirely coincidental.

Joseph's fallen by the wayside too. Although by all accounts, he's had some excellent games for Bath this season and is finding some form again?

Yep have to agree, it's getting a bit OTT on the Kvesic front. Yes he's not had the impact he's had, certainly last season but there has been a number of factors which have contributed to that. Some of the games i've seen him play he's done very well and been pretty industrious without being outstanding.

At present fot T1 it would have to be Haskell starting with Johnson on the bench for me.

Same for me Chjw131. Haskell's end of season form has been excellent. I think him, Robshaw, and Morgan would be an awesome backrow actually!

I actually think our pack could do quite well against them.

Does anyone know why Nick Evans never seems to be involved with the Barbarians? He's over here, his season's done, he's a better option than Brock James and has a style that should suit the Barbarians. It's one of the few things in rugby that he's not yet done, and yet every year I wonder why he's not even in the squad.

Does he not make himself available, or is he just being overlooked for some reason?

Nathan Hines is another guy who's never done it, you'd think he'd be ideal now he's retired from test rugby. Someone mentioned it on twitter and from his reaction it seems he just hasn't been asked.

This should be a better game as it's more like two scratch sides coming together and not some of the Test Side versus Talented Boozers mismatches we've seen recently. England will probably win but we're much more likely to enjoy a good spectacle than a one-sided affair. Much more invested in it seeing DOC and Roger Wilson involved, for a while Irish players weren't involved with the BaaBaas very often at all. So I care about it more when I have a dog in the race. Will be good to see those two guys line out.

Come on BaaBaas   

Donners is happy anyway; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFfSIRjNCAc&feature=youtu.be

Can't believe Michael Paterson is in there. 29 from NZ, been in England just about a year and apparently qualified through residency playing 3 years at the Blues. Oh, and the age-old grandparent rule as if that wasn't enough. Merc selection through and through.

Notch wrote:Hope Wilson gets some good time on the pitch, flying the flag for us- he totally deserves it. He's going to South Africa to play for a World XV after this as well.

Wilson is one of the most under rated players in the game. Saints have really missed him, he doesn't do the spectacular, but he is always there to do the hard work, be on the shoulder of a ball carrier or make that tackle when needed.

We have Dickinson now who is doing very well and there is also Samoa, but they are not, in my opinion anyway, as good as Wilson.

How he has never got more Ireland caps has escapes me, I know Ireland have had some excellent back rowers, but with injuries they have had, Wilson should have been in there.

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Bluddy hell. Good luck England, they will need it.
What a monstrous pack

Absolutely monstrous.

I'm thinking that our young front 3 will really take it to the BaBaas, but that our locks and backrow might be overwhelmed.

Very true, Gorgodze and Leguizamon together   
It's a good trial for the young English guys but like you said, they might be overwhelmed

Don't know why Paterson is there. Kitchener can run a line out and is a big boy in his own right (all 19 stone of him) but he works better alongside an enforcer. Stooke or Barrow would have been better choices.

Going to be a tough challenge for England. Any of these boys show up well then Lancaster will know they can be trusted to step up into the full squad.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Notch wrote:Hope Wilson gets some good time on the pitch, flying the flag for us- he totally deserves it. He's going to South Africa to play for a World XV after this as well.

Wilson is one of the most under rated players in the game. Saints have really missed him, he doesn't do the spectacular, but he is always there to do the hard work, be on the shoulder of a ball carrier or make that tackle when needed.

We have Dickinson now who is doing very well and there is also Samoa, but they are not, in my opinion anyway, as good as Wilson.

How he has never got more Ireland caps has escapes me, I know Ireland have had some excellent back rowers, but with injuries they have had, Wilson should have been in there.

Well, I agree with you but he would have had a chance if he hadn't left Ireland. He was never going to get picked when he was in England because the PRL wouldn't let him attend all scheduled Ireland training camps during the season. He would have only been available to train in the international windows and therefore he'd miss a lot of preparation. Thats why we'll only bend the rules when the guy is head and shoulders above his peers like Sexton and Bowe. He wouldn't have made the impact Steffon Armitage is making now to raise that question for England, for example.

His problem since coming back is Heaslip is incredibly durable (his injury record is unbelievable for a back row in the modern game, he's hardly missed an Ireland game since his test debut) and then with that and guys like SOB, Ferris etc. in the squad there's been a lot of guys who you'd be very confident could cover 8 at this level. Even in the current squad with those guys missing Chris Henry, Robbie Diack and Rhys Ruddock, Jordi Murphy have all played 8. So in a lot of squads Heaslip is the only specialist in that position and he just isn't giving that jersey away.

His chance has probably gone now, which is sad but he's not the only 8 to lose out. James Coughlan and more recently Robin Copeland can't get a sniff despite very strong form. He's been part of training squads as backup incase theres an injury or whatever but there just never has been.

Poorfour wrote:Does anyone know why Nick Evans never seems to be involved with the Barbarians? He's over here, his season's done, he's a better option than Brock James and has a style that should suit the Barbarians. It's one of the few things in rugby that he's not yet done, and yet every year I wonder why he's not even in the squad.

Does he not make himself available, or is he just being overlooked for some reason?

Wasn't he involved last year?

Knowsit17 wrote:Can't believe Michael Paterson is in there. 29 from NZ, been in England just about a year and apparently qualified through residency playing 3 years at the Blues. Oh, and the age-old grandparent rule as if that wasn't enough. Merc selection through and through.

What are you talking about? Apparently according to who? As they clearly don't have a clue.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:It seems a very experimental England side, is it billed as 'England' or a development side?

RFU has it as England XV & it is what it is because of scheduling mostly 4/5/6th choice players but shows good depth & opportunity for a lot of youngsters.

When everyone in the North was working on the assumption that the second weekend in June was the one with the second Saturday of the month, not the first, this fixture was supposed to be a tune-up for players who had finished their regular season and were two weeks away from the First Test.

The team to take on the Barbarians ought then to have looked a lot more like the side which will line-up for the first Test, perhaps with a few more deliberate experiments.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Can't believe Michael Paterson is in there. 29 from NZ, been in England just about a year and apparently qualified through residency playing 3 years at the Blues. Oh, and the age-old grandparent rule as if that wasn't enough. Merc selection through and through.

What are you talking about? Apparently according to who? As they clearly don't have a clue.

My mistake. Upon rechecking the source I realised I'd misread a sentence saying he qualifies for England through a grandparent and Wales through playing three years at the Blues

YEah agree about Patterson. Ive raised it above and on other threads. Im not happy with him being in there. He's had decent form this season but he's a kiwi.

Stooke has been good in a poor pack, and Barrow has been fantastic when he's played at 6 or 4.

Thats the one real negative in this squad

Knowsit17 wrote:
My mistake. Upon rechecking the source I realised I'd misread a sentence saying he qualifies for England through a grandparent and Wales through playing three years at the Blues

Unless he still lives in Wales, he's not eligible for them. He lost that the day he left. Same with the Vunipolas (even Mako thought he was still qualified for Wales when he first played for England...he was wrong as you cannot qualify for two countries via residency).

Baa Baas side:

J M Hernandez (Racing Metro, Argentina), J Rokocoko (Bayonne, New Zealand), R Ranger (Montpellier, New Zealand), B Stanley (Clermont, New Zealand), H Gear (Toulouse, New Zealand), B James (Clermont), J Cowan (Gloucester, New Zealand), S Taumalolo (Perpignan, Tonga), T Paulo (Clermont, Samoa), D Kubriashvili (Stade Francais, Georgia), D O'Callaghan (Munster, Ireland), J Kruger (Racing Metro, South Africa), J M Leguizamon (Lyon, Argentina, capt), A Lapandry (Clermont, France), M Gorgodze (Montpellier, Georgia).
Replacements: A Hore (Maniototo, New Zealand), J Brugnaut (Racing Metro, France), N Lobo (Toulouse, Samoa), J Tekori (Toulouse, Samoa), R Wilson (Ulster, Ireland), T Cubelli (Belgrano, Argentina), F Trinh-Duc (Montpellier, France), A Tuitavake (Montpellier, New Zealand).

How's Ewers gone in the final part of the season anyone?

I remember he struggled quite a lot last time he played for the Saxons, Gaskell as a replacement doesn't fill me with any joy!