Not the "England Team"

Just as bit of fun (and let's face it, we English supporters could do with some), I have chosen a "Not England Team" consisting of currently qualified English players (sorry no Hughes) who were NOT in the original selection (cheated here a bit with Easter).  French based players could be chosen, and also injured or suspended players.

My squad (bench in brackets).
1. Corbs / (Mullan)
2. Hartley / (LCD)
3. Thomas / (Cooper-Wooley) ... bit short of TH's
4. Attwood
5. Kitchener (Slater)
6. Otoje
7. Kvensic
8. Easter / (Ewers)
9. Simpson / (Robson)
10. Cipriani / (Myler)
11. Wade
12. Devoto / (Eastmond)
13. Manu
14. Roko
15. Foden

Please feel free to suggest or tear this apart, but treat this as a bit of fun in tense times.

Of the above players, I feel a fully fit Simpson would have been of great benefit but he is not a Lancaster favourite.  Also the 3 locks are quite beefy.  My wildcard is Devoto who perhaps could become a good player??

Could you include ALL the Welsh boys that were born in England? It would be a massive improvement on their first choice XV

That might be stretching the term "English" qualified a tad too far?

cb wrote:That might be stretching the term "English" qualified a tad too far?

Well English Qualified then if they hadn't played for another country?

Corbs, Hartley, Thomas, Slater, Kitchener, Croft, Kvesic, Ewers, Dickson, Cipriani, Yarde, Manu, Daly, Wade, Foden

Reps: Buchanan, Mullan, Wilson Sc, Itoje, Fraser, Simpson, Burns, Eastmond


Reckon that could run the first team close. Too many ok players, not enough quality.

15 Hallam Amos
14 George North
13
12
11 Cuthbert
10
9
8 Ross Moriarty
7
6 Dan Lydiate
5 Luke charteris
4 Jake Ball
3 Tomas Francis / Aaron Jarvis
2
1

you know to be honest I think thats the basis for a vastly improved England team...

1.Auterac
2.Hartley
3.Thomas
4.Kitchener
5.Slater
6.Itoje
7.Ksevic
8.Ewers

9.Robson
10.Cipriani
11.Rokodiguini
12.Hill
13.Tuilagi
14.Wade
15.Foden

Think the pack lacks experience but it's quite meaty. Something I want England to go back to.

More power in the forwards, more pace in the backs.

Maybe England playing an "A" team like that in a RWC warm up would be useful in the future.

beshocked wrote:1.Auterac
2.Hartley
3.Thomas
4.Kitchener
5.Slater
6.Itoje
7.Ksevic
8.Ewers

9.Robson
10.Cipriani
11.Rokodiguini
12.Hill
13.Tuilagi
14.Wade
15.Foden

Think the pack lacks experience but it's quite meaty. Something I want England to go back to.

More power in the forwards, more pace in the backs.

Good team, and I agree with your last comment. There's just something a bit bland about the current England side, particularly the forwards. Lancaster's crew are all very competent and efficient players, but there's a lack of surge in the pack, Billy V excluded.

Exactly FES.

Burgess has been getting so many headlines because he was the only bold new selection by Lancaster.

Wales' new scrum half has been doing well and he's a new player. Sometimes new players can light up a tournament if given a chance.

I still feel that England have missed an opportunity with the likes of Itoje,Ksevic,Slade and George.

Though I guess according to Lancaster they probably didn't perform well in training..... training of course is what wins matches.....

Honestly think the scrutiny of Burgess is understandable, given his profile, but unfair.

I think he's been impressive enough without doing anything eye catching. He took a dummy against Fiji but otherwise has been solid.

His direct running had a big impact against Fiji and helped England win the game and to keep Jamie Roberts quiet for an hour is something many top teams have struggled to do.

I think he'd been one of England's better players.

beshocked wrote:Exactly FES.

Burgess has been getting so many headlines because he was the only bold new selection by Lancaster.

Wales' new scrum half has been doing well and he's a new player. Sometimes new players can light up a tournament if given a chance.

I still feel that England have missed an opportunity with the likes of Itoje,Ksevic,Slade and George.

Though I guess according to Lancaster they probably didn't perform well in training..... training of course is what wins matches.....

Wales new scrum half got a chance because the other one broke his feckin ankle

If you aren't playing better in training than the "awful" players you want to replace with all the Saracens in the world, then how can you possibly be better on the field?

By LT's account last week, George was struggling at every scrum regardless of which props were alongside him.

I'd agree with you on Slade, no idea why he hasn't got a chance

The rest of the Burgess family?

beshocked wrote:Exactly FES.

Burgess has been getting so many headlines because he was the only bold new selection by Lancaster.

Wales' new scrum half has been doing well and he's a new player. Sometimes new players can light up a tournament if given a chance.

I still feel that England have missed an opportunity with the likes of Itoje,Ksevic,Slade and George.

Though I guess according to Lancaster they probably didn't perform well in training..... training of course is what wins matches.....

True, he shouldve left out Goode for Chris Pennell.

Gooseberry Chris Pennell whose playing in the Rugby Championship..... yeah good one.....

Bambam yes because of course Ksevic and Slade are Saracens players.......

I expect there are some players who have better reactions during an actual game of rugby instead of an environment like a training ground drill. A training ground can't teach you to deal with pressure!

Actually training instead can drain you of creativity and decision making. It's a mechanical process.

To be frank I don't give a damn if a player does poor in training if they play well in a game. If they don't buckle under pressure and do their jobs.

You cannot say that George would have failed, because he was never tried. He was never given the opportunity vs either Fiji or Wales.

I know some of you think training is the most important thing in the world - I think Lancaster agrees. That's part of the problem.

Lancaster likes mechanical processes but if you can't be pro active or even reactive then you won't win.

England buckled under the pressure - can't teach dealing with pressure in a training ground routine.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

beshocked wrote:1.Auterac
2.Hartley
3.Thomas
4.Kitchener
5.Slater
6.Itoje
7.Ksevic
8.Ewers

9.Robson
10.Cipriani
11.Rokodiguini
12.Hill
13.Tuilagi
14.Wade
15.Foden

Think the pack lacks experience but it's quite meaty. Something I want England to go back to.

More power in the forwards, more pace in the backs.

Good team, and I agree with your last comment. There's just something a bit bland about the current England side, particularly the forwards. Lancaster's crew are all very competent and efficient players, but there's a lack of surge in the pack, Billy V excluded.

Morgan is in theory a bit of a surge player, as are Haskell and Lawes. Youngs is pretty mobile for a hooker (but doesnt get used in that way), same with Marler who built his early career reputation on his ball carrying..again under utilised in that regard pehaps. Hartley too by front row standards is pretty mobile and early career famed for his breaks and surging runs. The one player he got loads of stink for not taking was Easter who is about as mobile as the Island he shares a name with.
Maybe its just a Lancaster thing ... he prefers his forwards to run at players rather than past them.

As for the rest of the side...youngs is very much a show pony 9 who makes a lot of breaks. Again maybe thats been curtailed under Lancaster to some degree. Farrell Barrit Burgess yes is comepletely lacking in flair. But Ford and Jospeh in and it is on paper a highlight real midfield.
The back 3 are probably the most exciting attacking players England have had as a threesome since that New Zealand trip in 2008 (Ojo, Brown and a drunk lady).

The bench maybe lacks pizzaz but if you look at some of the sides that got put out in 2007 and 2011 this world cup squad, and the sides to date, are positively buzzing with flair. Its really the centres that have dissapionted...but with no 12 nailing place, Tuillagi out, and JJ injured for Wales choices have been somewhat limited (yeah Slade ...whatever). The only player who got left behind was Burrrell and as a 12 he was about as exciting as ..well Barritt.

Gooseberry wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

beshocked wrote:1.Auterac
2.Hartley
3.Thomas
4.Kitchener
5.Slater
6.Itoje
7.Ksevic
8.Ewers

9.Robson
10.Cipriani
11.Rokodiguini
12.Hill
13.Tuilagi
14.Wade
15.Foden

Think the pack lacks experience but it's quite meaty. Something I want England to go back to.

More power in the forwards, more pace in the backs.

Good team, and I agree with your last comment. There's just something a bit bland about the current England side, particularly the forwards. Lancaster's crew are all very competent and efficient players, but there's a lack of surge in the pack, Billy V excluded.

Morgan is in theory a bit of a surge player, as are Haskell and Lawes. Youngs is pretty mobile for a hooker (but doesnt get used in that way), same with  Marler who built his early career reputation on his ball carrying..again under utilised in that regard pehaps. Hartley too by front row standards is pretty mobile and early career famed for his breaks and surging runs.  The one player he got loads of stink for not taking was Easter who is about as mobile as the Island he shares a name with.
Maybe its just a Lancaster thing ... he prefers his forwards to run at players rather than past them.

As for the rest of the side...youngs is very much a show pony 9 who makes a lot of breaks. Again maybe thats been curtailed under Lancaster to some degree. Farrell Barrit Burgess yes is comepletely lacking in flair. But Ford and Jospeh in and it is on paper a highlight real midfield.
The back 3 are probably the most exciting attacking players England have had as a threesome since that New Zealand trip in 2008 (Ojo, Brown and a drunk lady).  

The bench maybe lacks pizzaz but if you look at some of the sides that got put out in 2007 and 2011 this world cup squad, and the sides to date, are positively buzzing with flair. Its really the centres that have dissapionted...but with no 12 nailing place, Tuillagi out, and JJ injured for Wales choices have been somewhat limited (yeah Slade ...whatever). The only player who got left behind was Burrrell and as a 12 he was about as exciting as ..well Barritt.

Lawes offers very little surge if you ask me....and the problem is when you have him, Parling, Wood and Robshaw they're all similar grafter but never going to be rampaging.

Agreed on Morgan - we just haven't seen him do it yet this World Cup. I rate him highly as a player - he could become something really special.

1. Auterac
2. Hartley (leadership)
3. Sinkler
4. Slater (Leadership)
5. Barrow
6. Itoje (Leadership)
7. Kvesic (Leadership)
8. Ewers

9. Simpson / Robson
10. Cipriani
11. Wade
12. Stephenson
13. Manu
14. Roko
15. Foden

4 Captains in that pack...aswell as a nice mix of raw power, carrying, breakdown and defence.

Then pace and power in the backs.

To be fair we miss Tom Croft on the wing, and certainly attacking opoosition lineout.

Ed Slater is a player who could come in for England next season, and I agree with the hype surrounding Itoje. I just hope he's developed at 6 rather than lock.

Hopefully Dom Barrow will get sorted with the Tigers and get over his injury issues....then England will have a mobile man mountain in the second row. And a great lineout man.

Barrow will have his work cut out to make the team. Kitchener is a 19 stone line out master who was the king if the line out in the AP last season (most takes on own ball and most steals) and played a big role in getting us our undeserved place in the AP playoffs with his all action displays and surging runs. When Brad Thorn says you're good enough to be in the NZ RWC squad that's quite a compliment.

Slater when eventually back from injury is class as we all know and the summer addition of Fitzgerald from the Chiefs looks promising. An uncompromising second row mobile enough to play 6 at Super 15 level with a big work rate and line out ability. Add in Seb De Chaves and Barrow will need to develop and show an all round game if he wants starts. I think next season he'll be a bit part player Whilst his knee is repairing and then the season after he'll start to come through.