Groves, Degale and Froch going forward

Degale: Did brilliantly last night. Much better than I expected, anyway. I think he may get to fight for vacant belt if Froch goes Vegas route (Hearn can convince Froch to ditch IBF), Degale fights someone like, hmmm, Oosty (South African guy) and beats him comfortably enough. Then, next summer he either fights Froch in his farewell City Ground performance, or has couple easy defences before trying to unify with...

Groves: Has to rebuild, simple as. Needs to put some distance between his name and these consecutive losses. He will probably take two confidence building fights and then get Abraham fro the WBO belt. Maybe he will fight Stieglitz beforehand. If he can beat Abraham, and he should so long as he doesn't have stamina issues, he can fight Degale in a rematch when they both have a belt.

Froch: Can do as he pleases in my book. I was totally torn in this fight and actually backed Groves, just, but he did what he had to and won well. Having followed him since before Pascal, it is pleasing to see him get the rewards for all those tough fights that went under the radar when he was with Mick H. Fight and beat Chavez in Vegas (although the fight means little, really) then retire. Or, come home and fight at your beloved City Ground against Degale. Anything Froch does in England (short of Wembley) is a guaranteed sell out. If Degale wins a belt and brings his profile up, Froch v Degale would easily sell 40-50,000 next summer, especially if Degale looks good and gets mouthy.

It's an exciting time for us British fans over the next 18 months. The residual support the sport will receive after last night should be great. Most important thing now is the best fights get made. We need Quigg v Frampton. We could do with Khan v Brook and it would be nice if Eubank got with Matchroom or Sky or both, as a Eubank in the sport is always good.

Wonder what Frank Warren is thinking right now?

Haha 

Frank is staring at the bottom of his whisky bottle right now but he has lived off boxers well enough.

As for Degale I think the current theme doing the rounds is that Froch will vacate and shimmy off the the US for a fight with Chavez. Degale will fight for the strap and then face Groves.

The thought is that Froch v Degale will not put 80,000 bums on seats in Wembley so whats the point? Which I can understand lets not forget Degale has been fighting in shopping centres before Gonzalez.

From what I am hearing Froch has 1 fight left in him and I think its a waste of time mentioning GGG, Kolorev, or Super Pimp. Ward can only be a reality if Froch wins in Vegas and impresses, so Ward who's courtroom problems have effected his career might look at that fight with a little more interest.

Ward would love Froch right now, because Froch equals money. But Ward v Froch only sells big in UK, and then we'd see more of the first fight.

Boxing can't get any bigger than it has been this weekend, not in the UK, I just hope we see more coverage of our beloved sport on the back of this.

It does sound as though Vegas is the last item on the Froch checklist before he turns the game in. I suppose the timing of his retirement therefore depends on how soon he can get a starring role over there - I can't imagine him filling in time by fighting DeGale, which in any case, he wouldn't have to straight away, since he's fulfilled his mandatory obligations for the time being. One, maybe two fights more for Carl - if I were a betting man, we're looking at Kessler 3 and, maybe, Golovkin as the likeliest candidates, seeing as he's unlikely to get Chavez and isn't really interested in a Ward rematch.

DeGale therefore boxes off against AN Other for a vacant IBF crown within twelve months, I suppose. Has the talent to win it, without doubt. I just hope that he has the brain as well. If he wins, then Groves-DeGale II becomes a near certainty, especially if George can pick up a strap of his own in the meantime. I wouldn't bet against it, but time will tell.

In all of this there's one man who's been completely forgotten and that's Ward, you might be the best Andre but if you don't fight nobody is going to care about you any more.

Froch isn't daft, he knows his chances of beating Ward are minimal and will therefore avoid him like the plague as he wants a winnable fight to bow out with. He's already described Ward as a guy who 'probably won't get beat throughout his whole career' - hardly a turn of phrase you'd use if you had any intention of fighting him yourself.

He won't fight DeGale either; as Captain has said he's fulfilled two mandatory obligations against an up & coming fighter, DeGale will end up fighting for the IBF title when Froch retires. I suspect Froch would ideally love Kessler III as it'd be a winnable bout against a guy whose style suits him. But that fight wouldn't be a seller in Vegas I wouldn't have thought, so he may have to reconsider if he wants to fulfil that particular ambition. I can imagine seeing Froch fighting Chavez Jr in Vegas in November, not beyond the realms of possibility.

As for Groves; yep will likely go down the WBO route with Sauerland and if he & DeGale can both claim an alphabet strap then the natural progression is a unification bout/rematch between them in 18-24 months. Incidentally I watched their first fight for the first time since it happened on Saturday when sky showed it; had DeGale by a round first time out and same again 3 years later, can't see how GG won that fight no matter how much I wanted him to.

I think that this is an impression that his super-middle contemporaries are eager to emphasise, HH. None of them want to fight Ward for the simple reason that he'll beat them and they won't even have the compensation of a decent purse afterwards. However, if Ward insists on playing Greta Garbo, they can pretend that he doesn't exist until fight aficionados themselves believe it.

Problem solved. Ward is shooting himself so consistently in the foot that it's becoming embarrassing.

Tommy Oosthuizen fights at 175 now. He's also tied up in local super six at the weight. Don't know who chunky fights next, but it's not Tommy

Froch has already said he would "swerve" Golovkin. Too powerful.

Ah, Tommy would have been good for him.

IBF rankings:

http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/

Awash with rubbish. Manfredo, Jr. is 15 FFS

Seanusarrilius wrote:Ah, Tommy would have been good for him.

IBF rankings:

http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/

Awash with rubbish. Manfredo, Jr. is 15 FFS

What - Peter 'Peter Manfredo Jr' Manfredo Jr? And your problem with this is?

Dear God, that is a shower. DeGale will want shooting if he can't manage to beat anyone from that list (Groves apart, of course).

Yeah it does read like a "who's he", doesn't it?

Strongback wrote:Froch has already said he would "swerve" Golovkin. Too powerful.

Not very warrior like... Swerving little middleweights. Distanced himself from stevenson too, when he was making noises about dropping back down... Might rethink that after stevenson's last fight.

Ultimately, if anyone has earned an easy payday, froch has, but from a fans perspective, you obviously hope he'll take a challenge

If it's a Vegas fight he's after for late 2014 then there are two outstanding candidates for me, albeit for slightly different reasons. That's assuming that Froch, as is almost certainly the case, still has no intentions of ever leaving 168 or facing Ward again.

Obviously Chavez Jr is a consideration. Not sure it wets the appetite (for me, at least) the way my next suggestion would purely from a match up perspective, but nevertheless Julio Jr. brings a fair bit of money to the table and his name has marquee value. His style suits Froch's in terms of making for entertaining viewing. And to say it's a winnable fight for Carl would be a huge understatement - he'd be a handsome favourite.

But I'd much rather sweep that one aside if it meant we could potentially see Golovkin-Froch, providing that Golovkin's recent talk about absconding the 160 lb class due to his disillusionment at the other major names there not fighting him isn't cheap. Throughout his whole career, it's fair to say that Froch has put a bigger emphasis on legacy than money (and all the credit in the world to him for that) and taking this fight would require him to do the same again - but in potentially his final fling, would he still want to?

That said, Golovkin does still attract very good numbers of HBO when he fights. He's not a PPV attraction as of yet, but the form line so far suggests that if he was matched with the right fighter, the bout could still find its way in to a lot of households across the pond. He may well end up bringing less money to the table than Chavez Jr, but not by as much as some would think.

Riskier fight, though. Not impossible for Froch to win it by any means but a much tougher ask than Chavez Jr. In the short term he'd make a few quid less, but as a man known for taking on all comers, going the hard route and testing himself against the very best, then what better way to go out than by giving an opportunity to a man frequently cited as the most avoided and feared in boxing? Not as if the pay day itself would be shabby.

One fight ticks the money box big time but perhaps doesn't add a massive amount to Carl's legacy....The other pays him well but not sensationally, but would boost his already legendary status when it comes to taking on all comers which is certainly been something very important to the man himself.

I suspect Froch would prefer Chavez Jr right now and I can't knock him at all for that. It makes more sense for a man who is talking more and more with every interview about wanting more time to watch his little'uns grow up and how hard it is to maintain that same level of focus and discipline in training as the years roll by. He doesn't owe it to anyone at all to fight anyone other than who he wants, where he wants and when he wants right now. But personally, if Golovkin does indeed plan as assult on the Super-Middleweight division, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that for just one, final time, Froch puts it all on the line for us and takes on another all-or-nothing, big risk fight in the shape of GGG.

Chris, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute on the Golovkin fight (given that I'd personally love to see it happen), but is it not a high risk/low reward for Froch?

Golovkin is, as you put it, avoided. Equally that means he hasn't really faced any world-class fighters out there yet. Now imagine if he steps up and loses to Froch. Is there not a risk that suddenly he'll become just another hype job, who was fighting at a weight he wasn't comfortable with? I'm not saying it's fair or right, but I can see an argument for that line to be made, which would mean the fight wouldn't enhance Froch's legacy much at all?

Like I said, playing Devil's advocate as would love that fight to come off.

Was about to make the same point myself Chelsea. I guess there's a difference between a legacy fight and a 'respect of the fans' fight. Lacy was meant to be Calzaghe's legacy fight.

Whichever, After his last fight froch said it was all about legacy for him now. As I said earlier, he's one guy you wouldn't begrudge a softer option to, but if he's true to his word it would be 3G not junior. One might enhance his legacy the other definitely won't.

I for one, would give him all the credit in the world if he did. And I 'm sure my respect is important to carl.

there would at least be the question mark about Ward fighting out of the USA... and Froch clearly being stronger in his own town, if the fight was in Nottingham I would give Froch a better chance, But I still think Ward is too good and is something special..

Yep, the angle you're putting forward does have some weight to it, M for C. Big things are expected of Golovkin when / if he eventually does land that big fight against a really top-level, world class operator. If he doesn't perform then the kind of questions you talked about there will be asked.

But even if he lost to Froch, would he have been exposed as anything less than Chavez Jr already has been? Not really. Looking back in retrospect (and hindsight is always 20:20, of course!), the 1999 version of Reid that Calzaghe beat was arguably just as good, perhaps even better than the 2006 Lacy who he demolished, but the excitement regarding Lacy at the time (coupled of course with the fact that this was no split decision win, in fairness) and the fact that he was considered the next big thing who nobody wanted to face mean that compared to the Lacy win, the Reid one is almost an afterthought when you look back on Calzaghe's career.

Regardless of how he won or what Golovkin did or didn't do afterwards, a Froch victory over GGG would be looked back on very, very kindly when Froch's legacy is looked back on in a few years time. As I said above, it's be in line with how Froch has gone about plotting his career path in the past....But with potentially only one fight left, that plot may understandably go out the window.

Money, money and then money will dominate a lot of the talk when it comes to who the fans want to see Froch fight next, but let's not forget that he's hardly been bereft of lucrative returns in recent times. Knowing Froch's character, and knowing that he's not as desperate for that super pay day that some others getting towards the end of their careers are, him going against the grain and signing for a seriously tough Vegas fight, or perhaps even one where he'd be the betting underdog, wouldn't surprise me really, and I'd like to think that if he did it'd be Golovkin. But yes, Chavez Jr is the slightly more likely scenario, and like I said before you'll hear nary a bad word from me if Froch does go down that route.

Kessler has officially announced he wants a third fight with Froch. I would say that will be high on the agenda now.

For all the talk of Chavez Jr, has there ever even been as much as a squak from him or Arum in terms of being open to the fight? I just cant see why Chavez would be bothered. And hes never taken the short arse end of a purse in his life so is the international superstar really going to travel over for the short end of the purse? Chavez would demand 65% of the Revenue minimum, if he even wants the fight at all. Surely his family in the WBC can set him up with a nice title shot there with non existant drug testing in Texas with his immediate family officiating.

If Froch vacates one of the belts could it be Degale vs Kessler for the vacant belt.
What about Froch moving up half a stone and fighting BHop,Froch would make him fight for 12 rounds,don't know how big it sells in the US though.

Froch has any number of options should he elect to fight on:

1. Chavez Jr. Chavez is reported to have one fight left on his Top Rank contract -- that'd make sense for all concerned, although a couple of US writers doubted whether it'd sell that well in the States.

2. Kessler on neutral ground. I heard Amsterdam being floated over the weekend.

3. Pascal (Froch has a gentleman's agreement with him that they'll rematch at some point). He could take that one in Montreal.

I think a Golovkin fight seems the least likely. Soliman shocked Sturm this weekend and called out GGG -- I'm guessing that gets made soon.