Froch to vacate, Degale vs Groves late spring - who wins?

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/379745-carl-froch-expected-to-vacate-ibf-super-middleweight-title

Carl "Trench Warrior" Froch is due to vacate the IBF alphabet title he holds which paves the way for Degale vs Groves later this spring. Appears that Groves also has a few childish issues with Eddie Hearn as well:

"Wow, Eddie Hearn can talk some waffle. James DeGale in a 50/50. I haven’t lost a round in my last two fights"

You did suffer the knockout of the year though George in the fight before that and looked crap when coming back.

James stopped a fat out of shape dude who showed up with no trainer. When I box I sell out arenas or stadiums. When James boxes he sells out his soul

I don’t need to bow to you Sir Eddie. I’m following my path and I’m not your lady of loose morals. I’m happy to work hard for it, to gamble with it and to be patient with it. Make me a sensible offer.

At which point Eddie showed George up with:

It sells and the split is not up to us Paddy. It’s a vacant title [so it’s] 50/50,

Is Groves going to duck Degale or will we have another big domestic SMW showdown this year? And who would your prediction be on?

My money would be on Degale winning a close points decision in a fight that is far improved from their first encounter in terms of a spectacle. The level of childishness from both parties should reach new levels of idiocy though. Fast disliking Groves when he opens his mouth, can only be compared for the disdain I have for Khan when he speaks his tripe.

Grovesy also said this:


George Groves �� @StGeorgeGroves
@EddieHearn make me a sensible offer... Or should I say get Daddy to call me with a sensible offer?

Hmmn. 'Never lost a round in my last two fights', 'I sell out stadiums, James sells his soul'

A pint of what George's drinking please.

I can understand it by Froch..... Unfortunately he's in a Wilfredo Gomez vs Azumah Nelson situation....Where he can't win.......

He beats a real tough contender.........."Groves beat him so what"..

He loses and it hurts his legacy............

milkyboy wrote:Hmmn. 'Never lost a round in my last two fights', 'I sell out stadiums, James sells his soul'

A pint of what George's drinking please.

Ditto on that. Used to be a big GG supporter, was elated when he beat chunky for instance. Was always a Froch fan, but even before that fight got made he really started irritating me and turned me off him. Don't exactly have much time for Degale either, but would probably want to see Georgie knocked on to queer street again which would in effect end his career or at the very least he'd have to spend 2 years rebuilding.

Just seen the odds that Skybet are offering on this... 1/3 Degale, 9/4 Groves - WOW.

"Is Groves going to duck Degale".........

Please just stop with all this ducking crap..............

Every fighter in the game bar GGG is a coward it seems....

Pathetic...

Groves at 9/4, only James DeGale's mother wouldn't take a punt.

Groves has learned more since the first fight in comparison to DeGale I would reckon.

Not sure about DeGale when he steps up to a better Groves.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"Is Groves going to duck Degale".........

Please just stop with all this ducking crap..............

Every fighter in the game bar GGG is a coward it seems....

Pathetic...

Did I use the word coward? It's the biggest fight out there for George:

* One which has a title on the line
* One which would sell out the 02 (and probably a bigger venue)
* It's the highest earning fight for both
* It's the highest profile fight for both

If he doesn't fight Degale then he's hardly got a big name opponent (lest we forget this would be a massive domestic PPV showdown) lined up - has he? Degale wants the fight, they're both on the verge of big fights if they fight each other. They're rated #3 and #4 and the winner would be propelled in to big money fights.... Again, chunky wants it - if George doesn't then he's swerving fighting Degale. Call it a swerve, duck, avoid - whatever you will.

Other way round for me coxy. I never particularly liked froch, but the first groves fight build up and aftermath took it to a new level. Never had a strong opinion either way on groves. He's not helping himself with comments like this that's for sure. As for degale, I'm yet to see anything even moderately redeeming in his personality.

The cream of British super middles... And seemingly not a likeable personality trait between them. They do punch people for a living I guess, but some seem to manage to combine that without being a complete tool... Even if they're just 'hyping' a fight.

Interesting odds, I'd expect degale to be favourite but not to that degree.

Coxy001 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"Is Groves going to duck Degale".........

Please just stop with all this ducking crap..............

Every fighter in the game bar GGG is a coward it seems....

Pathetic...

Did I use the word coward? It's the biggest fight out there for George:

* One which has a title on the line
* One which would sell out the 02 (and probably a bigger venue)
* It's the highest earning fight for both
* It's the highest profile fight for both

If he doesn't fight Degale then he's hardly got a big name opponent (lest we forget this would be a massive domestic PPV showdown) lined up - has he? Degale wants the fight, they're both on the verge of big fights if they fight each other. They're rated #3 and #4 and the winner would be propelled in to big money fights.... Again, chunky wants it - if George doesn't then he's swerving fighting Degale. Call it a swerve, duck, avoid - whatever you will.

It was more of a generalisation than referring to you specifically...........But the implication is there with the word duck..

Interesting odds, I'd expect degale to be favourite but not to that degree.

Yeah it's nigh on totally unbackable with those odds. Complete 50-50 for me, not sure I could bring myself to back Groves just because of said 50-50 nature and then end up cheering on chunky knowing I've just practically given money away. If it does get made am hoping it comes in a bit as the fight nears.

@Trussy

I would never call a boxer a coward. Takes bigger cahonas than all of us have put together to do what those guys do. But history is littered with guys seemingly not wanting to fight another guy for various reasons - reasons that don't involve them being 'scared', but rather too much risk vs not enough reward as an example. Hope that clears that up.

I just think that If you know it's your name that sells the fight and a Promoter is offering 50/50.............Then you aren't ducking anybody.........

Apparently Eddie made a derisory offer to Frampton to fight Quigg..............No one is accusing Frampton of ducking Quigg !!!.Rightly so..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I just think that If you know it's your name that sells the fight and a Promoter is offering 50/50.............Then you aren't ducking anybody.........

Apparently Eddie made a derisory offer to Frampton to fight Quigg..............No one is accusing Frampton of ducking Quigg !!!.Rightly so..

Last time I checked Truss Groves was the supporting act to Degale at the Echo in L'pool (latters fight was a much better matchup on paper) and the main fight in Bellew vs Clev. Neither by themselves have been big money spinners/gate receipt generators. 50-50, they may waver on that slightly but isn't Degale mandatory for the IBF which means it has to be a 50-50 split?

If Groves was such a big draw he wouldn't have been hidden away on an undercard. He doesn't exactly have a fan base to speak of. Heck, give them both 40% and then the winner takes the extra 20%. That would sort the men out from the boys in all these silly contract negotiations.

There is no way Degale is a bigger name than Groves......end of !!

Froch has now officially vacated. 

DeGale to fight for the vacant IBF belt on April 25th at the O2
Opponent TBC. 

Seems like it won't be Groves though. 
Andre Dirrell or Gilberto Ramirez most likely but be amazed if Dirrell comes back over here!

I was alluding to the fact that Groves isn't as bigger draw as he thinks he is. Groves vs Froch was massive because of the domestic nature of it/the horrid stoppage in the first fight.

Ok, lets say hypothetically:

Groves were to fight and headline against G Ramirez. Wouldn't be on PPV, probably wouldn't sell out the 02 and would need to use a smaller venue.

Degale were to fight and headline against G Ramirez. Wouldn't be on PPV, probably wouldn't sell out the 02 and would need to use a smaller venue.

Groves and Degale sign to fight: Would be on PPV and would sell out the 02. They need each other. As I said earlier, whoever the other one fights (unless they decide to go for career suicide and fight GGG etc.) next that isn't the other person wouldn't be as a bigger fight/they wouldn't earn as much. If Groves demands 60-40 then that's his max in my eyes - find it a bit weird that he hasn't counter offered by saying "Sir Eddie, I want 60-40"...

rob-glos wrote:Froch has now officially vacated. 

DeGale to fight for the vacant IBF belt on April 25th at the O2
Opponent TBC. 

Seems like it won't be Groves though. 
Andre Dirrell or Gilberto Ramirez most likely but be amazed if Dirrell comes back over here!

For the love of god please don't fight Dirrell, absolutely borefest fighter who feigns injury.

Best be a stacked undercard then as chunky would struggle to sell the 02 out as previously mentioned. Would've thought the ginger twit would be raging at Degale winning a world title before him. Also don't get to see Groves literally cry like a girl after he did against Froch. Shame!

I thought GG would get one Dirrell and JdG the other, that way they could both win world titles and then have a massive (Wembley sell out?) unification fight....?!

I don't think Groves - Degale would sell out Wembley...Toppy.

Groves is a two time loser..........Degale doesn't resonate with the fans !!

Froch like it or not for some was a big name ...and Groves was viewed as his heir apparent after the first fight.........

Really only the controversy of the first made the second fight a Wembley extravaganza....

Don't think Khan - Brook is a wembley fight either...

Just thinking how it could be sold/marketed a bit.

It's got spite, personal history, vengence, two Brits, both world champs, #1 & #2 in the division (assuming Ward & Froch are gone), it's a unification etc.

Wembley might be a push, but could still see it easily selling 20k.

As I say for me Degale doesn't resonate with the public like Brook doesn't yet....and Groves is a two time loser..

Big fight but not an event..

Froch-Groves 2 had everything going for it..

As pointed out though Truss, if you bring Groves and Degale together again it would be a big event. In terms of:

* Would be PPV
* Would command column inches (rarity nowadays)
* Both would be on Good Morning amongst other tripe programmes

The big point here I think you're missing is that the Froch v Groves II fight is still fresh in the casual fans memory. Expect the Eubank/Benn comparison to be trotted out again as well. Thing is the casual fan would in all likelyhood be taken in by it, not to the same degree as the GG rematch with Froch but could see it easily selling out the 02 if they fought each other.

From a British point of view I really want these two guys to get it on. The first fight was just a bunch of novices going at it, this has the makings of being a much better fight in terms of action.

Coxy001 wrote:As pointed out though Truss, if you bring Groves and Degale together again it would be a big event. In terms of:

* Would be PPV
* Would command column inches (rarity nowadays)
* Both would be on Good Morning amongst other tripe programmes

The big point here I think you're missing is that the Froch v Groves II fight is still fresh in the casual fans memory. Expect the Eubank/Benn comparison to be trotted out again as well. Thing is the casual fan would in all likelyhood be taken in by it, not to the same degree as the GG rematch with Froch but could see it easily selling out the 02 if they fought each other.

From a British point of view I really want these two guys to get it on. The first fight was just a bunch of novices going at it, this has the makings of being a much better fight in terms of action.

I said it would be a big fight......as would Khan v Brook...

But the controversy of Froch - Groves spread to the sports fans............It became an interesting issue.......It transcended Boxing..........

First fight was in an arena..

Haven't they sold out the 02 once already with their first fight? Think it'd easily sell out the 02 again... Wembley? Not so much unless the tickets started at like £5 each.

It was sold out when they were second on the bill...........

But for sake of argument .....Let's say they are both household names and would sell out Wembley twice over........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It was sold out when they were second on the bill...........

But for sake of argument .....Let's say they are both household names and would sell out Wembley twice over........

Unlike you to concede victory in a debate (or arguement in other cases!) to someone Trussy

Not worth arguing about Mate..... ...Or maybe it is with someone who's opinion I give a toss about !!

If you think Degale is a stadium fighter good luck to you...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not worth arguing about Mate..... ...Or maybe it is with someone who's opinion I give a toss about !!

If you think Degale is a stadium fighter good luck to you...

To be fair Greg Haugen fought infront of 130,000 or spectators at a big stadium....

Either or aren't. Together it's a massive domestic dust up. Naysayers said GG vs Froch II wasn't a stadium fight yet that sold out in minutes. With a strong enough undercard I don't see a reason why it wouldn't, they already have their past history/massive dislike of each other well and truly published - something we the general public wasn't overly aware of with the first GG Froch fight.

Anyway, probably won't be until later this year providing they get path the Dirrell bros.

So two guys who appeared on the undercard of Clev - Bellew.............

Sellout wembley stadium by fighting eachother..

Okay....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So two guys who appeared on the undercard of Clev - Bellew.............

Sellout wembley stadium by fighting eachother..

Okay....

That was 4 years ago....... Just in case you've forgotten

I don't know if you saw it, but Hearn and Groves really went off on each other on Twitter. Groves basically saying that he isn't Hearn's lady of loose morals and won't be forced to fight DeGale unless terms are in his favour (GG has helped sell out Wembley, after all). Hearn literally used the word '#Cobra'd' to insult Groves.

This got me thinking.

Hearn has annoyed Khan a lot in the build up to a potential Brook fight. Booking Wembley and such. I think that fight will happen, but Khan hasn't been too happy with Hearn's pushiness there.

He can't seem to get Barry McGuigan to work with him

Now he is having Twitter wars with GG.

Does Hearn need to calm down a bit? I know  he is trying to make 3 fights we want to see, but he's annoying some of these fighters a lot.

He can't seem to get Barry McGuigan to work with him

Because his charge Frampton will get sparko'd.

Don't mind a bit of goading personally. At least he actually wants to make the fights unlike other promoters/managers out there. If someone takes offense at what's said about themselves on social media then they need mental help.

I just worry that Groves won't fight DeGale to spite Hearn. Also, a promoter shouldn't get too involved. Groves hasn't seemed very fond of Hearn since Froch 1. Maybe Hearn has decided to give it back

Says alot about Groves if he declines the fight based on spite. Outside of Froch (and we don't need a third fight between them) the only PPV fight for Groves, who he'd realistically get, is Degale. Big payday or spite Hearn and go and fight some randomer for well over half the money? Hmmm....

This is going along the same lines as my thread btw.

Ok, cool. I will merge them

Seanusarrilius wrote:I don't know if you saw it, but Hearn and Groves really went off on each other on Twitter. Groves basically saying that he isn't Hearn's lady of loose morals and won't be forced to fight DeGale unless terms are in his favour (GG has helped sell out Wembley, after all). Hearn literally used the word '#Cobra'd' to insult Groves.

This got me thinking.

Hearn has annoyed Khan a lot in the build up to a potential Brook fight. Booking Wembley and such. I think that fight will happen, but Khan hasn't been too happy with Hearn's pushiness there.

He can't seem to get Barry McGuigan to work with him

Now he is having Twitter wars with GG.

Does Hearn need to calm down a bit? I know  he is trying to make 3 fights we want to see, but he's annoying some of these fighters a lot.

I was reading others making this point also. Hearn doesn't like that he doesn't have full control over all the big British fights.

If he want's the likes of Khan, Frampton and Groves to fight his guys he should show a little humility and learn the art of negotiation, particularly when he doesn't hold all the cards. Eddie's problem is that with his privileged he isn't used to people saying no to him.

Everything is weighted in Groves' favour right now in terms of negotiation. George would happily go to the States and fight either Dirrell, I'm not sure Chunky fancies that. It's 1-0 Groves also. Why shouldn't he play some hard ball?

2-0, in fact.

60-40 is fair in my eyes. Groves is still a bigger name and has the extra leverage after the first fight, as you say. I also heard Froch took the lion's share of the GG fights. 75% or so. GG prob likes not being in that position again.

Is Eddie not correct, then, that it's established fact that fighting for a vacant title = 50:50??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2936403/Carl-Froch-set-vacate-world-title-Eddie-Hearn-plots-James-DeGale-vs-George-Groves.html

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TopHat24/7 wrote:Is Eddie not correct, then, that it's established fact that fighting for a vacant title = 50:50??

I imagine he is correct. Doesn't seem GG is willing to do it for that, though.

I just want it to happen .

TopHat24/7 wrote:Is Eddie not correct, then, that it's established fact that fighting for a vacant title = 50:50??

I can see JMM, Cotto, Froch, Mayweather, JCC, Manny, Khan and Wlad fighting a no name for a vacant title......50/50..

Would they fight for a vacant title though?

Strikes me they I'd beat the champ or be handed it de facto to defend.

Maybe they would...maybe they wouldn't....

But we both know they wouldn't be fighting for 50/50 with a no name for a vacant title..

ShahenshahG wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2936403/Carl-Froch-set-vacate-world-title-Eddie-Hearn-plots-James-DeGale-vs-George-Groves.html

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This one?

Macko, Monaghan, 1 day ago

Would love to see eddie getting knocked about in the ring ))

TopHat24/7 wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2936403/Carl-Froch-set-vacate-world-title-Eddie-Hearn-plots-James-DeGale-vs-George-Groves.html

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This one?

Macko, Monaghan, 1 day ago

Would love to see eddie getting knocked about in the ring ))

jr101ulster, belfast, 1 day ago

Pity Hearn didn't have a fighter like Terry Marsh.


ReplyNew

I can confirm I am not from Ulster and do not have an Ulster wha wha wha accent.

Degale beats Groves and was unlucky in their last fight.. But I dont see it happening, you could say Groves is ducking but he also has to wriggle past another fighter ahead of him in the cue. Also He may see Anthony Dirrel as the easier fight to make him a world champ..

If they both win a strap then its a huge fight.

I fancy Groves Shading it with AntD, and just a case of if he can get a decision with the US Judges, and Degale AndD is a very interesting one... think it will go to points and very hard to call, as Dirrel has the speed to deal with Degales... very hard to imagine how the fight will go..

tunes666 wrote:Degale beats Groves and was unlucky in their last fight..  But I dont see it happening, you could say Groves is ducking but he also has to wriggle past another fighter ahead of him in the cue.  Also He may see Anthony Dirrel as the easier fight to make him a world champ..

Easier than the guy he's beat twice already??

Better the devil you know etc....

And no, JdG wasn't remotely 'unlucky' in their first fight. It was close but he didn't do enough to win, GG comprehensively out-thought him. JdG is a very talented boxer, but he doesn't come with a Plan B or have the nowse to come up with one on the hoof. He'd have a better chance of beating GG if he got a proper trainer in his corner, not that current prat.