The Official *England's Journey to the Promised Land* Thread

[Duty281]

"And here comes Hurst, he's got...some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over! It is now! It's four!"
England, despite drastically underachieving, are one of only eight nations to win the World Cup.

So here we are then, the eve of yet another FIFA World Cup, the grandest sporting tournament of them all. For the under-hyped England team, it's another chance to add to their one solitary World Cup and bring football home.

"Oh and he left Cooper standing...Pele! What a save! Gordon Banks!"
The greatest goalkeeper of all time makes the greatest save of all time.

The conception is that England will be lucky to make it past the group stage. The reality is that 2014 is the best chance of winning the World Cup since 1970, for the Three Lions. It is a squad largely unburdened by previous failure. It is a squad free of expectation. It is a squad that has the perfect balance between youth and experience. It is a squad fantastically prepared, tactically fluid in its play-making and with a wonderful manager at the helm.

"And Moore stops him! What a player this fellow is."
Now that was simply the greatest challenge of all time, made by the greatest centre-half of all time.

England are ready to win the World Cup.

"There's a header in there, and a great chance for the goal and it's there! Bryan Robson!"
Captain Marvel scores the quickest meaningful World Cup goal of all time.

In defence, Joe Hart has bounced back from his early season failings better than ever, and is all set to prove himself as one of the world's best goalkeepers this summer. Gary Cahill and Phil Jagielka are a good partnership at the heart of the defence. Leighton Baines is solid, and Glen Johnson is...um..not the worst full-back in the world. The English shield wall won't concede many goals this summer, they never do; qualifying and history shows us that. And the depth remains solid.

Now is the time, that everyone sees/You never give up, that's how it should be/Don't get caught, make your own break/Express yourself, don't give it away.
That might bring back memories of when England last made a World Cup Semi-Final.

In the centre of midfield, Steven Gerrard has come off one of his best seasons for many years, fully enjoying his new holding role. Accompanying him will be his club team-mate, Jordan Henderson, who has rapidly settled into the England set-up despite not playing a single minute of qualifying. Frank Lampard adds the experience, and Jack Wilshere gives the style and energy of youth, both from the bench.

Three Lions on the shirt/Jules Rimet still gleaming/No more years of hurt/No more need for dreaming.
And this classic still resonates loud and true.

On the wings, England's main strength this year, Hodgson's team have a vast array of options. Danny Welbeck is as capable as ever out wide. Raheem Sterling is a superb talent with an eye for goal, plus enough pace and skill to trouble any defence in the world. Adam Lallana is as deft as they come: so very crafty, so skilled, so clever. And Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain might just have the greatest potential of the lot, combining all the aforementioned assets. Not forgetting James Milner, who gives England crucial depth and brilliant crossing ability.

"Here's Gascoigne..oh brilliant! Oh yes! Oh yes!"
Just technically brilliant.

Up front, Daniel Sturridge and Wayne Rooney together means England have, at the very least, a good strike pairing. Such a strike pairing haven't been seen for the England team since the days of Owen and Rooney at Euro 2004...or perhaps Shearer and Sheringham in Euro '96. Both Sturridge and Rooney have had great seasons for their clubs; the former is still in form, the latter is working hard to find his. And Rickie Lambert, who has also had a great season for his club, completes the striking package by offering a more-than-decent goalscoring threat from the bench. And he's not too shabby from twelve yards, either.

"Oh Owen's through again for England, what a chance for the hat-trick here. Owen! Oh this is getting better and better and better!"
England stuff the Germans in Munich..O happy day.

Then there's Roy Hodgson. A fabulous manager who has given England direction, tactical improvement and has improved their reputation off-the-field massively in the short space of two years. He's integrated many new players into the team, prepared them superbly and, after not being a million miles away from shocking the footballing world at Euro 2012, strolled through qualifying. A man with World Cup experience, he's certainly the best manager England have had since, at least, Sir Bobby Robson.

"Captain's example, David Beckham. England lead Argentina - those three little words that mean so much!"
And that was the last time England had a major win at a tournament.

After the humilation in South Africa, it's difficult to believe that England would be standing on the precipice of world glory just four years later. And here we are. England are seven games from winning their second World Cup. Football's greatest prize has, for too long, been absent from England's green and pleasant land.

"And Gerrard has found a way into the box, and he has found the net! And England are heading to the World Cup Finals!"
England seal qualification with a 2-0 win.

Bring her home, Roy, bring football home. Back to where she belongs.

[Guest]

``Balotelli picks the ball up, avoids one of the Manaus diverts, nutmegs a knackered Gerrard, sidesteps Wilshere, who's holding his ankle, he glides towards the box & is lining it up, he is, he is you bloody know........ohhhh, what a f****** goal from super Mario. The Italians have won the game in the third minute of injury time. There it is, the final whistle blows, the Italians are joyous & celebrate a magnificent victory in a rainsoaked Manaus``.

The Italians win their opening game against England & went onto win the 2014 World Cup by beating Iran in the final on penalties[/size]

[skyeman]

Blimey Duty, how long did that take you?  Well done though.

1970?  1990 was not too bad.

Golf, cricket, football and tennis tomorrow but the wife wants me to do the garden. 

[Dolphin Ziggler]

ENGLAND WIN THE WORLD CUP

http://graphics.wsj.com/documents/WORLDCUPTOEE/#/?lang=en&metrics=Lowest%20Traffic%20Death%20Rate

[Duty281]

Blimey Duty, how long did that take you?  Well done though.

1970?  1990 was not too bad.

Golf, cricket, football and tennis tomorrow but the wife wants me to do the garden. 

Took me about forty-eight years, Skye!

[skyeman]

ENGLAND WIN THE WORLD CUP

http://graphics.wsj.com/documents/WORLDCUPTOEE/#/?lang=en&metrics=Lowest%20Traffic%20Death%20Rate

Ha ha.

Let's just hope the team are not a car crash

[NickisBHAFC]

3 LIONS ON THE SHIRT!!!!

I CAN'T FUC*ING WAIT!!!!

[Duty281]

Crikey, I'm hearing that Phil Neville will be the BBC's co-commentator for the England-Italy game.

I dream of a day when football commentary can be turned off without muting the atmosphere as well.

[owen10ozzy]

"And here comes Hurst, he's got...some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over! It is now! It's four!"
England, despite drastically underachieving, are one of only eight nations to win the World Cup.

So here we are then, the eve of yet another FIFA World Cup, the grandest sporting tournament of them all. For the under-hyped England team, it's another chance to add to their one solitary World Cup and bring football home.

"Oh and he left Cooper standing...Pele! What a save! Gordon Banks!"
The greatest goalkeeper of all time makes the greatest save of all time.

The conception is that England will be lucky to make it past the group stage. The reality is that 2014 is the best chance of winning the World Cup since 1970, for the Three Lions. It is a squad largely unburdened by previous failure. It is a squad free of expectation. It is a squad that has the perfect balance between youth and experience. It is a squad fantastically prepared, tactically fluid in its play-making    and with a wonderful manager at the helm.

"And Moore stops him! What a player this fellow is."
Now that was simply the greatest challenge of all time, made by the greatest centre-half of all time.

England are ready to win the World Cup.

"There's a header in there, and a great chance for the goal and it's there! Bryan Robson!"
Captain Marvel scores the quickest meaningful World Cup goal of all time.

In defence, Joe Hart has bounced back from his early season failings better than ever, and is all set to prove himself as one of the world's best goalkeepers this summer. Gary Cahill and Phil Jagielka are a good partnership at the heart of the defence. Leighton Baines is solid, and Glen Johnson is...um..not the worst full-back in the world. The English shield wall won't concede many goals this summer, they never do; qualifying and history shows us that. And the depth remains solid.

Now is the time, that everyone sees/You never give up, that's how it should be/Don't get caught, make your own break/Express yourself, don't give it away.
That might bring back memories of when England last made a World Cup Semi-Final.

In the centre of midfield, Steven Gerrard has come off one of his best seasons for many years, fully enjoying his new holding role. Accompanying him will be his club team-mate, Jordan Henderson, who has rapidly settled into the England set-up despite not playing a single minute of qualifying. Frank Lampard adds the experience, and Jack Wilshere gives the style and energy of youth, both from the bench.

Three Lions on the shirt/Jules Rimet still gleaming/No more years of hurt/No more need for dreaming.
And this classic still resonates loud and true.

On the wings, England's main strength this year, Hodgson's team have a vast array of options. Danny Welbeck is as capable as ever out wide. Raheem Sterling is a superb talent with an eye for goal, plus enough pace and skill to trouble any defence in the world. Adam Lallana is as deft as they come: so very crafty, so skilled, so clever. And Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain might just have the greatest potential of the lot, combining all the aforementioned assets. Not forgetting James Milner, who gives England crucial depth and brilliant crossing ability.  

Our main strength only works if he is bold enough to pick the right selections in the first place

"Here's Gascoigne..oh brilliant! Oh yes! Oh yes!"
Just technically brilliant.

Up front, Daniel Sturridge and Wayne Rooney together means England have, at the very least, a good strike pairing. - Yet to prove that they do and given Rooney's failings on the grandest stage more chance he plays poor than great. Such a strike pairing haven't been seen for the England team since the days of Owen and Rooney at Euro 2004...or perhaps Shearer and Sheringham in Euro '96. Both Sturridge and Rooney have had great seasons for their clubs; the former is still in form, the latter is working hard to find his. And Rickie Lambert, who has also had a great season for his club, completes the striking package by offering a more-than-decent goalscoring threat from the bench. And he's not too shabby from twelve yards, either.

"Oh Owen's through again for England, what a chance for the hat-trick here. Owen! Oh this is getting better and better and better!"
England stuff the Germans in Munich..O happy day.

Then there's Roy Hodgson. A fabulous manager who has given England direction, tactical improvement and has improved their reputation off-the-field massively in the short space of two years. He's integrated many new players into the team, prepared them superbly and, after not being a million miles away from shocking the footballing world at Euro 2012, strolled through qualifying.    Didn't we require a win in our final two games having drawn 4 of our 6 games against the better sides in the group- Montenegro, Ukraine & Poland A man with World Cup experience - yeh 20 years ago - football has since changed...vastly , he's certainly the best manager England have had since, at least, Sir Bobby Robson. -yet to prove this...I'd have Venables above him currently certainly...

"Captain's example, David Beckham. England lead Argentina - those three little words that mean so much!"
And that was the last time England had a major win at a tournament.

After the humilation in South Africa, it's difficult to believe that England would be standing on the precipice of world glory just four years later. And here we are. England are seven games from winning their second World Cup. Football's greatest prize has, for too long, been absent from England's green and pleasant land.

"And Gerrard has found a way into the box, and he has found the net! And England are heading to the World Cup Finals!"
England seal qualification with a 2-0 win.

Bring her home, Roy, bring football home. Back to where she belongs.

[Duty281]

Owen, you're too young to be so cynical. Chin up and believe!

[skyeman]

Hope they stay up longer than 12 days!

[Stella]

England memories?

Not much beats Platt's winner in 1990, against Belgium.

[owen10ozzy]

I'm 26...I've gone from watching England reach semi final of 90...to seeing us tear apart Holland before losing out to Germany in 96...to watching us lose to the Argies in 98 all while trying to play decent football.

For the past 14 years I've witness us go backwards....requiring injury time winners to scrape to World Cups see 2001 & Beckham..where we were then subjected to relatively abject performances bar 1 game...watched us struggle to overcome Trinidad & Paraguay & Ecuador in 2006 ...fail to even get to Euro 08 and then see the last attempt of the Golden Generation end in a wimper in 2010 with draws against USA and Algeria before getting a deserved thumping against the Germans...Even Euro 2012 holds no fond memories..scraped past Ukraine...negative and dour against France and then parked the bus against the Italian who made us look like a Sunday League team...

This is what fans have been subjected too over the last 14 years...

Europeans –  

2012 – France 1-1, Ukraine 1-0, Sweden 3-2 : QF Italy 0-0 lost pens
2008 –N/A
2004 – France 1-2, Switzerland 3-0, Croatia 4-2: QF Portugal 2-2 lost pens
2000 – Portugal 2-3, Germany 1-0, Romania 2-3: Knocked out group stage

World Cups –

2010 – USA 1-1, Algeria 0-0, Slovenia 1-0; Last 16 Germany 1-4
2006 – Paraguay 1-0, Trinidad 2-0, Sweden 2-2; Last 16 Ecuador 1-0; QF Portugal 0-0 Lost Pens
2002 – Sweden 1-1, Argentina 1-0, Nigeria 0-0; Last 16 Denmark 3-0; QF Brazil 1-2

                Played  Won  Drawn Lost
Finals:          25        11       6        5


Top Teams: 10         2        1         7

And yes the penalty shoot out's count as losses...because they are..and lets be frank 75% of the time we deserve to go out on them after clinging on/being outplayed for much of the game.

Hardly a stellar record and a shocking one against the top teams; so quite why I shouldn't be cynical i'm not sure...unless you can pull something up; which isn't cobbled together from theories or superstitions.

Anyhow....the day has arrived and despite my moaning about England I am actually really looking forward to this now. Expect Brazil to win tonight...though Croatia will make it tough in the early goings I feel.

Can see Columbia, Switzerland & Bosnia pulling out some surprises and if Chile get out of the group I see them making the Semi's.

[Stella]

I agree, our actual performances over the last 10 years or so (we were fine at euro 2004) have been tiresome to watch. That said, we got a little lucky in 1990, with the draw we had.

[owen10ozzy]

I just fondly remember the days when we actually had a go at teams;

Spain 96...Holland 96....Germany 96...

Argentina 1998...

Portugal & Germany in 2000...ok we went out but at least it wasn't with a wimper and our backs to the wall..

[Stella]

I just fondly remember the days when we actually had a go at teams;

Spain 96...Holland 96....Germany 96...

Argentina 1998...

Portugal & Germany in 2000...ok we went out but at least it wasn't with a wimper and our backs to the wall..

I agree, have a go at least. We were negative in 2006 and 2010, trying to play it around at the back, but unlike Spain, without an actual pattern. I think Roy will attack, what with our pace up front.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

You watched Italia 90 did you?

This England you remember doesn't exist. The best English memories of your life will be similar to mine. Including: Pearce's penalty in an unremarkable game, the free kick against Greece where we were awful, Beckham's penalty in a game we played as an 11 man defence against Argentina.

We've never been dominant, we have the odd game but generally we are a 50/50 side who have moments rather than controlled periods of attack against the better sides. Two of our better players in reasonably recent history at World Cups have been Hargreves and Butt.

That's not to be a downer, other than 2010 I've always found is entertaining, but this cynical stuff you spout is a nonsense.

[Stella]

We were just as bad in 2006, imo. You're right about 1990 though. Dramatic but not that entertaining.

[VTR]

England did not play well at Italia 90 but it was a hell of a ride, and that semi-final was a great game which is why it is remembered.

2002 was a real missed opportunity, 1-0 up against an average Brazil side, would have been Turkey in the semis then a poor Germany in the final. The draw really opened up thanks to some abject performances from most European teams in the first round.

[Stella]

And some dodgy reffing in the Korea games.

[Crimey]

I think 2010 is the only time England were seriously poor in recent years, where the group stages were atrocious and the Germany game really awful. Other than that England have never really shamed themselves in the major tournaments.

2002 England played quite well and were perhaps slightly unfortunate to be knocked out by eventual winners.
2004 England played well in the groups and then probably deserved to beat Portugal, penalties were the problem.
2006 is a very similar story, know people will point at the poor opposition before the quarters, but England can only beat what is put in front of them. Without going down to ten men England very well could have won.
2012 was not too bad, think the context of the manager resigning so soon beforehand and the sheer amount of injuries after to be taken into account. Didn't disgrace themselves against Italy who were actually very good that tournament and other teams would have crumbled. If England had won the lottery, people would remember that game differently.

[VTR]

And some dodgy reffing in the Korea games.

True!

[Duty281]

With the penalty shoot-outs, I would argue England deserved to win every single one of those games, with the exception of Italy at Euro 2012.

You should be more optimistic, Owen: the golden generation has all but gone, there's an exciting blend of young players in this side, 4-4-2 has been consigned to the dustbin, as has Emile Heskey, and England are a team with no divides, preparing superbly for this World Cup.

There's plenty to be positive about.

[VTR]

I'm 26...I've gone from watching England reach semi final of 90...to seeing us tear apart Holland before losing out to Germany in 96...to watching us lose to the Argies in 98 all while trying to play decent football.

Wouldn't you have been 2 years old during Italia 90?!

[JamesLincs]

I'm 26...I've gone from watching England reach semi final of 90...to seeing us tear apart Holland before losing out to Germany in 96...to watching us lose to the Argies in 98 all while trying to play decent football.

Wouldn't you have been 2 years old during Italia 90?!

lol, was thinking that myself. im 27, and euro 96 was my first inty tourno.

[skyeman]

I'm 26...I've gone from watching England reach semi final of 90...to seeing us tear apart Holland before losing out to Germany in 96...to watching us lose to the Argies in 98 all while trying to play decent football.

Wouldn't you have been 2 years old during Italia 90?!

lol, was thinking that myself. im 27, and euro 96 was my first inty tourno.

Could have had early words watching the green TV. Poopie, poopie, poopie.  

[VTR]

I'm 26...I've gone from watching England reach semi final of 90...to seeing us tear apart Holland before losing out to Germany in 96...to watching us lose to the Argies in 98 all while trying to play decent football.

Wouldn't you have been 2 years old during Italia 90?!

lol, was thinking that myself. im 27, and euro 96 was my first inty tourno.

Could have had early words watching the green TV.  Poopie, poopie, poopie.  

Let's go easy on the lad. I was 2 in 1982 and I distinctly remember falling out of my high chair with excitement when Robson scored!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I would also like to say Ive always loved the "English style" of football.

[Duty281]

So the England team for Saturday, accompanied by 7,000 of the greatest sporting fans in the world (the English, before anyone makes a sly remark!), are all set to line-up with Lallana and Sterling on the wings, and Henderson alongside Gerrard in the middle.

Rooney sounds remarkably relaxed, and the England squad as a whole sounds very positive and upbeat. There's an air of quiet optimism from the media on England's chances this summer.

Italy are expected to line-up 4-1-4-1, with Pirlo in a more advanced role, and De Rossi in the holding position. Mario Balotelli is the lone frontman - a striker who has only netted once since the end of March, and hasn't scored for his country since October. The Italians aren't sounding anywhere near as positive or confident as the Three Lions.

I'm rather looking forward to this one - 2-0 England.

[owen10ozzy]

There is such thing as watching reruns/youtube/tapes lads. Which I did from when I first fell in love with football at 6.

Actually I remember England tearing Holland to shreds; I remember us actually having a go at Germany in the semi's of 96....unlike against Italy last year where parked the bus worse than Chelsea in the Champions League...

For the last 10 odd years fans have had to endure negative tactics...unless of course we go behind. Even if we have started quick in games we always revert to type and sit behind the ball...dropping deeper and deeper. We did against the Argies in 98, we did it against Portugal in 2002, we did it against Brazil in 2002.

To be fair a lot of my bad memories are from the golden generation and with them gone I really hope we do decide to be a bit more adventurous....use the facts we aren't shackled by previous failures and a squad full of pre-madonna's and really have a go...

However I see the same things creeping in as I did during the noughties....players being played in 'unfavourable' positions...i.e. Welbeck...and I don't give a stuff about this whole 'oh we need balance' rubbish...if that's the case I can quite easily argue the other way and say that the balance has been lost because the team is set more defensively hence isolated strikers and a lack of link up between midfield and strikers. Inability to beat the best teams in the world when it matters and an abandonment of what serves us best when we do come up against them...i.e. we play to cover there strengths rather than play to make the most of ours.

Anyhow...with the countdown on I shall endeavor to be a bit more cheery in the coming day's...after all football on the whole I still enjoy. But when England put in more abject performances and line up to suit Mr Rooney and drop the ball by not giving the youngsters I chance I shall be the first to say I told you so.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

All you know of Italia 90 is nostalgia and history though. The play seems so much better for the glorious result that people go on about. We've never been swashbuckling brilliant.

Honestly, I don't know why you bother.

[Stella]

Anyone remember euro 88 and 92. We were really bad in those tournys. Euro 2004 was arguably our best tournament, positive wise. If Rooney had stayed fit...........

[Duty281]

Owen, about the unfavourable positions - isn't that exactly what you want England to do? I believe you said you wanted England to play Sturridge on the left, that's unfavourable, yes?

And England at Italia 90 were very poor, bar one game, looking back. Scraped past Egypt, Belgium and Cameroon, and drew with Ireland. Played incredibly well against West Germany, though, and deserved to go through to the final.

[Crimey]

Didn't think we were that bad against Italy either, didn't have a lot of possession but created just as many good chances.

[skyeman]

All you know of Italia 90 is nostalgia and history though. The play seems so much better for the glorious result that people go on about. We've never been swashbuckling brilliant.

Honestly, I don't know why you bother.

That is a good point, unless a person watches all the games and the live tension, plus build-up expectation or not. It is impossible to judge.

[skyeman]

Was not alive in 66, but from what i have read. England were not expected to win.

But there was 100% hope.

[owen10ozzy]

No we haven't but we have been better than the dull as dish water stuff served up like 2012...I mean even these qualifiers saw us draw against the better teams until the final 2 games...which we had to win to get through...Hodgson didn't suddenly become a great forward thinking adventurous coach...his hand was forced as we needed wins.

Look at England players who have retired early or have been overlooked for 'shoe in's'...i.e. players deemed untouchable.not being appreciated or being played out of positions....Scholes (one of the best technical players we have ever had)...Steve McManaman..(always bemoan lack of left footed players then don't play them)...Ruel Fox (Sinton was favoured ahead of him..jeez)....even Steve Bruce...! We have a reoccurring theme of cocking up when it comes to bringing through huge talent or using options at our disposable for more favoured/safe options...

Gerrard/Lampard combo for almost 10 years being the worse one; at the expense of playing Hargreaves a man gifted with all of the abilities we crave for right now in the midfield!

Now were seeing it with the likes of Lallana...playing wide when his best position is 10...and why? Because we insist on playing a guy who is not a natural number 10 and has never player his best whilst there...certainly not for England...yet managers keep sticking with it thinking something is going to change..

As for you 'nonsense' and 'why you bother' remarks don't remember you being this antagonising on the old podcasts...in fact don't remember you being this behind England either...but hey ho only you know why your being like that when behind a keyboard....

Duty - I said I would rather him than Welbeck...given we have very few options on the left.. and Sturridge is actually left footed. Think we are the only team in the world who play right footed people on the left wing even when we have the option to play left footed people there (actually...given that most top countries have players who can use both feet it makes very little difference to them what side they play on)..I also stated that if we are going with 2 work men/holding midfielders in Gerrard & Henderson then I want to see us be more positive with our choices of wingers...not play people just because they will put a shift in and track back... should Hodgson play just Henderson...then I wouldn't criticise the inclusion of Welbeck as much.

[Duty281]

Well you need not worry, Owen, as it looks like Welbeck won't be starting. Lallana left, Rooney 10, Sterling right - all three can interchange well, mix it up, and put England on the front-foot.

With those three behind the striker, Daniel Sturridge, and Gerrard and Henderson holding the midfield together, England have a fantastic attacking base - certainly better than the last few World Cups, including the much-hyped 2006 campaign.

Add in Wilshere and Barkley from the bench if need be, and Oxlade coming back from injury, plus an in-form Lambert, then there are plenty of reasons to be cheerful.

I'd rather have this England squad than any other I've seen in my lifetime and, yes, that does include Euro 2004.

It baffles me as to why the media aren't banging the En-ger-land drum like they used to; the class of 2014 is superior to the "Golden Generation".

[Crimey]

I understand the argument about Gerrard and Lampard, but I don't think any England manager can be blamed for trying to make it work, for those ten years both were two of the best midfield players in Europe so of course an England manager is going to try and play them together. The mistake was to not stop playing 4-4-2 earlier to allow a more disciplined midfielder to play with Gerrard and Lampard.

Lallana plays wide most of the time for Southampton, he's a player in the mould of Cazorla or Coutinho, perhaps is better suited to playing number 10 but his dribbling ability means he can be utilised very well from the wings because he will have more space and time.

I think you'll find most countries play people with their wrong feet on the wings, Ribery plays on the left, Robben plays on the right, Ronaldo plays on the left etc. It would actually be backwards to go back to wingers playing on the right 'wing'. I definitely don't think shunting England's top goalscorer this season in the Premier League wide, where he has notoriously struggled and meaning he can't even cut in on his dangerous left foot as well is the answer.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Hahaha really Owen? You're gonna keyboard warrior me? Come off it, I'd call a spade a spade whenever

I've always been an England fan, I'm behind them as much as always. I'm not claiming they are the best in the world, just pulling you on your Poopie. Again, Ruel Fox being used as an example is hilarious, whilst McManaman was right footed. Steve Bruce was around 29/30 at the Italia 90 you have raved about.

Speaking of people playing out of position, I refer you to Spain's leading goalscorer David Villa who was a right footed player who played on the left in many a major tournament. I'll let you see where Neymar makes most of his moves from tonight.

I am happy to antagonise when you are being so openly ridiculous. Ignoring that Sturridge plays as a striker for his club and Welbeck has almost always been used from the left for his, the fact Welbeck scores goals for England and is in there more than just to run around. I will call you out on being moody and negative offering little else. Its not like its a new thing based on the team. Youve attacked their preparation without knowing much about it, bemoaned Hodgson for picking players he doesnt want to pick due to media pressure whilst ignoring how he blooded many into his squads before their big bursts onto the media spotlight.

I'm not saying we are great, but we havent been since about 1970.

With this kind of attitude, I really dont know why you bother. You don't seem to enjoy any of it. I don't like your attitude, but I wasnt having a go. I honestly meant it. I don't think i'd bother if it caused me to react like that

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Youth

Hodgson’s decision to take Shaw was surprising, but it’s actually in line with many of his selection decisions since taking charge of England two years ago. He was happy to start Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain against France in England’s Euro 2012 opener, for example, despite the fact he’d started six Premier League games in his career.

Indeed, since Euro 2012 – a tournament where Hodgson was appointed weeks before, with little preparation time – he’s made a very clear attempt to involve new, and often young, players before there were widespread calls for their inclusion.

For example, he called up Adam Lallana three games (and three defeats) into his Premier League career, and Raheem Sterling two games into his. Both had to wait for their opportunity to start England matches, but both experienced superb second seasons, and could be key this summer. Similarly, Ross Barkley was selected after six Premier League starts, and Andros Townsend (injured for the World Cup, but England’s best player in their final two qualification matches) after 12.

[owen10ozzy]

The points about the wings...and I did say it...is that they are all players who are capable of playing with both feet...England players are not...well very very few...if anyone needs clarification take a pen and paper and count

a) how many times someone uses his weaker foot

b) how many times a player when receiving it on the weaker foot either turns and it passes backwards or cuts inside in order to get it back onto his stronger foot.

As far as Fox is concerned why is that ridiculous...you do realise he was the form player for Norwich during their tenure in the top flight in the 90's and subsequently earned a move to Newcastle where he was again instrumental in there relative success...yet he was ignored for the safer option of Andy Sinton time and time again.

Stevie Mac may well have been right footed but he operated on the left wing and was more than capable of using both feet...in fact he was very good with his left hence his comfort playing that position. I'd rather take Pele's word over yours...who said after Euro 96 that McManaman was 'one of the finest players in Europe'... yet the guy somehow only won 34 England caps in 8 odd years..
As for Steve Bruce...I believe the late great Sir Bobby Robson admitted not picking the Man Utd defender was the biggest mistake of his England days and possibly his coaching career..

Yes Welbeck has been used out wide for his club and country...that doesn't mean it's his best position..in fact the stats would show he was much more in form when played up top..see early doors of the 2013-14 campaign for instance. Playing him out wide is no different to playing Sturridge out wide...are either as good out there as up front...no...but like I said would rather have Sturridge's pace and attacking ability over Welbecks on the left...leaving Rooney to play up front and actually concentrate on scoring goals rather than dropping deep constantly and being frozen out of the game in the 10 role..which is what happens whenever we come up against the best teams!

As for preperation...hardly say what I have said can be construed as attacking...merely offering an opinion on whether I believe it is as good as it could have been based on what information I have read. Isn't that the idea of a forum...to come and discuss stuff...

As for Hodgson blooding youngsters...who do you think he has exactly blooded before the media clamoured... Lallana got called up after great club form in the Championship last year and lots of media attention (had the team been fashionable i.e. in the premiership he'd have been called up then but they weren't)...same as Shaw..Barkley, Wilshere and Oxlade were all well placed and well spoken of before Hodgson came into the England fold nd all had made headlines which placed them in the media 'call up for England' bandwagon.

We don't all have to be happy go lucky and jump on the England train every time a World Cup roles around. Do I support them...yes...do I watch every England game..yes..what I don't do is get caught up in the clamour and belief we are going to do anything spectacular...reason being we havent for nearly 20 years...if that makes my attitude negative then fair enough.

[skyeman]

A bit unfair on Owen.

Many have said England have played poorly in recent tourneys and the build-up has not enthused everybody to give great expectation.

Owen, like everbody wants England to win.

More hope than expectation, me included.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Just cant give the man any credit. Thats pretty solid evidence there that suggests he was happy to do it, but now hes just doing what hes made. No choices himself I guess. Its all based on what you want the point to be not what the information says.

To every point I can offer a counter. Bruce, would have been prime in the period you were talking about England being so good. So I am happy to say its clearly not a big deal.

Pele has said a lot of nonsense. McManaman was a good player, I won't deny that, but not someone who would have redefined our success. As I will say for every player touted, teams need certain types of players in certain types of systems. Generally, managers dont pick people for no reason. And I was calling you up on the fact you bemoaned our need for a left footer and called someone who wasnt, and was probably passable rather than good with that left.

I also laugh at Ruel Fox cos he was a good player, but really not that great. I don't think anyone is ruing that decision.

Welbeck has been used out wide very effectively for his country. This team too. He works hard, will be very good against full backs, is intelligent in his link play drifts in like the manager wants. And I mean in the way the manager wants rather than just being a player who drifts in. Welbeck is very intelligent and a very good turnover player. His pass rate is always very good and he links well with Sturridge and with Rooney.

The preparation stuff - a few of us pointedly responded with fair examples of you having not read the right information

I don't think we'll do anything spectacular either. Just because I don't think they're Poopie doesnt mean I'm Duty! And I think by responding I'm doing exactly what the forum is for...

[Crimey]

Playing him out wide is no different to playing Sturridge out wide

Apart from the fact that Sturridge was the top English goalscorer last season, the fact that Welbeck has played almost universally wide for the past two or three years while Sturridge is a centre forward every game he plays?

[Duty281]

"Gerrard and England begin the long walk towards their destiny."

That's the headline from the Times today; good to see some typical English understatement!

History shows us that England's opening game at a World Cup will begin well, they'll score first, and then gradually fall apart. Oh well...send history to the dustbin today!

England are expected to line-up thusly:

Hart in goal.
Johnson, Jagielka, Cahill, and Baines as the back four.
Gerrard and Henderson in the middle.
Lallana right, Rooney ten and Welbeck left.
Sturridge up front.

Italy's big threat, Pirlo, is set to be played in a more advanced role this time, with De Rossi utilised as the holding man. Henderson and Welbeck are all set to counter the Italian's possession football with their high work-rate.

England's key is pace and width. And they have plenty of it.

Even better for England is they have fantastic options off the bench: Wilshere, Barkley, Sterling and Lambert can all be sent on to attack, and stretch a tiring Italy in the second half, or maybe the experience of Milner and Lampard can be used to close a game out.

Final prediction: England 2-0 Italy. Gary Cahill to nod in from a set-piece, and Sterling to settle it from the bench.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Rumours of Buffon having picked up an injury in training.

[Guest]

Sirigu would come in, not much of a blow.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Absolute world class to very good is still a drop

[Guest]

You sound like Duty though, clutching to any positive possible. I don't see it as a major blow really. Yeah, Buffon is great but Sirigu is more than capable.

Fully expect a howler from Sirigu now & you to be quoting this later   

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