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The Official *England's Journey to the Promised Land* Thread

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Post by Duty281 Wed 11 Jun 2014, 7:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

"And here comes Hurst, he's got...some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over! It is now! It's four!"
England, despite drastically underachieving, are one of only eight nations to win the World Cup.


So here we are then, the eve of yet another FIFA World Cup, the grandest sporting tournament of them all. For the under-hyped England team, it's another chance to add to their one solitary World Cup and bring football home.

"Oh and he left Cooper standing...Pele! What a save! Gordon Banks!"
The greatest goalkeeper of all time makes the greatest save of all time.


The conception is that England will be lucky to make it past the group stage. The reality is that 2014 is the best chance of winning the World Cup since 1970, for the Three Lions. It is a squad largely unburdened by previous failure. It is a squad free of expectation. It is a squad that has the perfect balance between youth and experience. It is a squad fantastically prepared, tactically fluid in its play-making and with a wonderful manager at the helm.

"And Moore stops him! What a player this fellow is."
Now that was simply the greatest challenge of all time, made by the greatest centre-half of all time.


England are ready to win the World Cup.

"There's a header in there, and a great chance for the goal and it's there! Bryan Robson!"
Captain Marvel scores the quickest meaningful World Cup goal of all time.


In defence, Joe Hart has bounced back from his early season failings better than ever, and is all set to prove himself as one of the world's best goalkeepers this summer. Gary Cahill and Phil Jagielka are a good partnership at the heart of the defence. Leighton Baines is solid, and Glen Johnson is...um..not the worst full-back in the world. The English shield wall won't concede many goals this summer, they never do; qualifying and history shows us that. And the depth remains solid.

Now is the time, that everyone sees/You never give up, that's how it should be/Don't get caught, make your own break/Express yourself, don't give it away.
That might bring back memories of when England last made a World Cup Semi-Final.


In the centre of midfield, Steven Gerrard has come off one of his best seasons for many years, fully enjoying his new holding role. Accompanying him will be his club team-mate, Jordan Henderson, who has rapidly settled into the England set-up despite not playing a single minute of qualifying. Frank Lampard adds the experience, and Jack Wilshere gives the style and energy of youth, both from the bench.

Three Lions on the shirt/Jules Rimet still gleaming/No more years of hurt/No more need for dreaming.
And this classic still resonates loud and true.


On the wings, England's main strength this year, Hodgson's team have a vast array of options. Danny Welbeck is as capable as ever out wide. Raheem Sterling is a superb talent with an eye for goal, plus enough pace and skill to trouble any defence in the world. Adam Lallana is as deft as they come: so very crafty, so skilled, so clever. And Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain might just have the greatest potential of the lot, combining all the aforementioned assets. Not forgetting James Milner, who gives England crucial depth and brilliant crossing ability.

"Here's Gascoigne..oh brilliant! Oh yes! Oh yes!"
Just technically brilliant.


Up front, Daniel Sturridge and Wayne Rooney together means England have, at the very least, a good strike pairing. Such a strike pairing haven't been seen for the England team since the days of Owen and Rooney at Euro 2004...or perhaps Shearer and Sheringham in Euro '96. Both Sturridge and Rooney have had great seasons for their clubs; the former is still in form, the latter is working hard to find his. And Rickie Lambert, who has also had a great season for his club, completes the striking package by offering a more-than-decent goalscoring threat from the bench. And he's not too shabby from twelve yards, either.

"Oh Owen's through again for England, what a chance for the hat-trick here. Owen! Oh this is getting better and better and better!"
England stuff the Germans in Munich..O happy day.


Then there's Roy Hodgson. A fabulous manager who has given England direction, tactical improvement and has improved their reputation off-the-field massively in the short space of two years. He's integrated many new players into the team, prepared them superbly and, after not being a million miles away from shocking the footballing world at Euro 2012, strolled through qualifying. A man with World Cup experience, he's certainly the best manager England have had since, at least, Sir Bobby Robson.

"Captain's example, David Beckham. England lead Argentina - those three little words that mean so much!"
And that was the last time England had a major win at a tournament.


After the humilation in South Africa, it's difficult to believe that England would be standing on the precipice of world glory just four years later. And here we are. England are seven games from winning their second World Cup. Football's greatest prize has, for too long, been absent from England's green and pleasant land.

"And Gerrard has found a way into the box, and he has found the net! And England are heading to the World Cup Finals!"
England seal qualification with a 2-0 win.


Bring her home, Roy, bring football home. Back to where she belongs.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 21 Jun 2014, 11:25 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Olly wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:So its all results based again now is it?

Never said it was and I made a thread where I discussed his tactical failings and selection failings.

But results in qualifying and at the WC have been very bad.
Qualifying is just about qualifying for me, just get yourselves to the dance (if there's any greater example of that its the French this WC who were very poor in qualifying)

Results at the WC haven't been good obvs, but performances have improved and widely acknowledged as the best since 2004 and really on another day we could've won both those games (all hypothetical I know but if Godin is sent off, if Rooney slots home the Italy chance etc)

Poor results in qualifying can push your fifa rankings down and you end up being a 2nd/3rd seed team and get drawn in a group of death which is exactly what happend to England.

If England had performed better in qulifying we would have had a higher fifa ranking, been a 1st seed and be drawn in a group containing easier teams( no guarantee we would win but it would be a lot easier than having to play uruguay and Italy in the group stages).
But by the same token we could've been a top seed and still had the Dutch and Chile (like Spain did), the WC draw more often than not you're gonna need to be lucky as some v good teams will be in the other pots. 

You can also be lucky like France as a team in pot four, but don't get me started on how Fifa changed all the rules regarding the playoffs qualifiers once France were in there!!

Either way I'd give Roy the 2016 Euros, and if were not reaching the quarters/semis there then he needs to go (by then the likes of Barkley, Shaw, Wilshere, Henderson etc should all be coming into or in there prime age bracket)
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Post by Mat Sat 21 Jun 2014, 11:26 pm

Did anyone see Martin Samuel's article in the Daily Mail today?

"The FA has a problem, though, and it is not just in its paltry list of suitable candidates. It is pregnant with West Bromwich Albion — eight months gone with a mid-table club that has somehow been allowed to take over the way English football is run. Hodgson is the manager, Dan Ashworth is the FA’s technical director, the friends of Ashworth are on the technical staff.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2664074/Roy-Hodgson-isnt-wally-turnip-isnt-Englands-answer-The-FA-no-ambition-shouldnt-be.html#ixzz35JaXUIvQ

Think it's a bit harsh to be blaming Albion! If England don't want Roy and Ashworth we'll have them back in an instance!

Anyway, I've purposefully avoided this thread until now because I'm a big fan of Roy's and probably wasn't in a fit state after both games to really post anything constructive. Obviously not happy with the results but I think we have played really well. There's a couple of obvious issues-Jagielka isn't good enough, Johnson has looked poor and perhaps Baines isn't quite as good as we thought.

But the performances, the style of play and the selections I think have been bold,brave and actually quite unlike Roy. If anything, we were probably a bit too attacking/open which is something Roy has never been accused of before! He's bought through some young players and given them tournament experience. There's a few more older legs who need to be thanked and moved on to allow more younger players in, and I think Roy should be allowed to do that.


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Post by Duty281 Sun 22 Jun 2014, 9:33 am

I'm feeling slightly ill this morning to read that Hodgson is trying to convince Gerrard to play for England until 2016. Surely not? There's plenty of time for other players to build up experience in the next two years.

And England are set to play 4-3-3 against Costa Rica, with Barkley and Lallana starting. Cue England playing really well, cue a load of comments saying that England should have played like that from the start. Wink

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Post by Guest Sun 22 Jun 2014, 10:33 am

Can see us beating Costa Rica. Firstly, they ain't great, they've just beaten two average sides themselves & have already qualified. Goal difference also in their favour to win group. I think they will be just happy to qualify, not fully commit to our game & prepare themselves physically/mentally to the last 16 tie. Its either Colombia or Ivory Coast you would imagine, not a huge difference who they face

As for Roy wanting Gerrard to continue. Oh dear, more crazy decision making. Roy for two more years, good luck.

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Post by Crimey Sun 22 Jun 2014, 2:12 pm

I want Gerrard to retire so he can last longer with Liverpool! 

I do think England will miss him when he's gone, England don't have many good young deeper midfielders right now.

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Post by sportform Sun 22 Jun 2014, 3:03 pm

John wrote:Can see us beating Costa Rica. Firstly, they ain't great, they've just beaten two average sides themselves & have already qualified. Goal difference also in their favour to win group. I think they will be just happy to qualify, not fully commit to our game & prepare themselves physically/mentally to the last 16 tie. Its either Colombia or Ivory Coast you would imagine, not a huge difference who they face

As for Roy wanting Gerrard to continue. Oh dear, more crazy decision making. Roy for two more years, good luck.
We were too scared of Pirlo and Suarez and possibly beat by them before we got on the field. Costa Rica don't have a world class player so we'll probably beat them quite well.
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Post by sportform Sun 22 Jun 2014, 3:10 pm

Crimey wrote:I want Gerrard to retire so he can last longer with Liverpool! 

I do think England will miss him when he's gone, England don't have many good young deeper midfielders right now.
He was too deep that was one of our problems. He was too deep in Euro 2012 and that hasn't been fixed in two years. Because he is too depp, there is a huge gap between the midfield and attack which makes it much hard to keep possession, move the ball efficiently and play through the middle and harder to break teams down. Gerrard also want to force the ball and play too much. People have compared him with Pirlo or called him our 'quarterback' but that just slows us down and allows the opposition to get set. What Pirlo does it move the ball about first with a shorter game, from left to right to move the opposition and create space for runners. He then picks out a pass.
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Post by Crimey Sun 22 Jun 2014, 4:00 pm

sportform wrote:
Crimey wrote:I want Gerrard to retire so he can last longer with Liverpool! 

I do think England will miss him when he's gone, England don't have many good young deeper midfielders right now.
He was too deep that was one of our problems. He was too deep in Euro 2012 and that hasn't been fixed in two years. Because he is too depp, there is a huge gap between the midfield and attack which makes it much hard to keep possession, move the ball efficiently and play through the middle and harder to break teams down. Gerrard also want to force the ball and play too much. People have compared him with Pirlo or called him our 'quarterback' but that just slows us down and allows the opposition to get set. What Pirlo does it move the ball about first with a shorter game, from left to right to move the opposition and create space for runners. He then picks out a pass.

There was no problem with him being too deep at Liverpool, that's where he was best, playing almost between the two centre backs. The problem with Hodgson making Henderson stick on Gerrard basically so dragging him deep as well.

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Post by sportform Sun 22 Jun 2014, 5:48 pm

[quote="Crimey"][quote="sportform"]
Crimey wrote:There was no problem with him being too deep at Liverpool, that's where he was best, playing almost between the two centre backs. The problem with Hodgson making Henderson stick on Gerrard basically so dragging him deep as well.
Liverpool played a diamond which meant that Gerrard can play deep without losing the shape and can still play through midfield.

..Johnson...Skrtel...Agger...Enrique

....................Gerrard............

......Henderson............Coutinho

....................Sterling

When you play a midfield two the idea is to keep a square with the centre backs, so whether it has been Gerrard, Lamprd or Gerrard, Parker or Gerrard, Henderson both have to go deep or lose the shape. If Gerrard doesn't drop back we could play higher up the pitch, move the ball quicker and tried to move the opposite around and create space.

I would have gone

...Johnson...Jagielka...Cahill...Baines

....................Gerrard

......Henderson............Barkley
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Post by Duty281 Sun 22 Jun 2014, 6:06 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27966260

I like how in the key facts column that Gerrard playing in the 2014 World Cup isn't mentioned.

No he did play...honest!

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Post by CFCNick Sun 22 Jun 2014, 7:21 pm

There's a difference between playing and being on the field, Duty.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 22 Jun 2014, 11:16 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27966260

One step forward and two steps back; nobody gets too far like that.

My faith in Roy Hodgson has gone down faster than a Brazilian rent boy over the last few weeks.

Be positive Roy, build for the future. It might be different if Gerrard was coming off a good tournament, but he's had a very poor one, and he'll be too old (36) for Euro 2016.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Sun 22 Jun 2014, 11:18 pm

Yeah Stevie G one of the biggest legends in football, but i think its time for him to retire from international football and Lampard as well for that matter.

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Post by Crimey Mon 23 Jun 2014, 1:05 am

Liverpool played a diamond for two or three months out of the entire season, before that they played essentially 4-2-3-1 and Gerrard was fine retreating between the centre backs.

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Post by GSC Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:10 am

'Arrys sticking his oar in I see, all these players would be wanting to play for England if good ol' Arry was in charge no doubt.
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Post by liverbnz Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:20 am

Roy 'Mediocre' Hodgson.

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Post by GSC Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:30 am

Lampard to captain the team, Gerrard off the bench, Shaw and Barkley to start.
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Post by Strongback Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:31 am

If there are not enough quality players in any team they will go nowhere. It doesn't matter who the manager is.

England has a large population but isn't producing top players . Look how consistant a much smaller country like Holland is.

Too many foreigners and an U-21 Premier League reserve league that isn't fit for purpose cannot be ignored as a major major problem.

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Post by Stella Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:37 am

Lampard and Gerrard should play...........for the last time.

Lambert up front, Hart to be rested, and Wilshere to play as the third midfielder, with Lallana, and Sterling supporting Lambert.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:58 am

'Arry is a git. Never seen such a self serving man

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Post by Duty281 Mon 23 Jun 2014, 12:17 pm

You know when Harry Redknapp's lying - his lips start moving.

I remember when 'Arry wrote in his book that Gerrard had texted him his support for the England manager's position...then, shortly after, Gerrard said he didn't even had Redknapp's phone number!

Lies, damned lies, and Harry Redknapp.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist Mon 23 Jun 2014, 12:26 pm

Stella wrote:Lampard and Gerrard should play...........for the last time.

Lambert up front, Hart to be rested, and Wilshere to play as the third midfielder, with Lallana, and Sterling supporting Lambert.

why play 3 guys who will not feature at the next tournament? Could give the experience of playing to a younger player.

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Post by Stella Mon 23 Jun 2014, 12:35 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Stella wrote:Lampard and Gerrard should play...........for the last time.

Lambert up front, Hart to be rested, and Wilshere to play as the third midfielder, with Lallana, and Sterling supporting Lambert.

why play 3 guys who will not feature at the next tournament? Could give the experience of playing to a younger player.

Does this game have much bearing on the future? Roy will just want to win. After this debacle is over, then re-assess.
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Post by CFCNick Mon 23 Jun 2014, 1:31 pm

It's a glorified friendly, CS.

I still maintain that Lampard and Gerrard would have worked together this year. They've both moved on. They both suit that position of the two man base in midfield. Before they both liked to be "the guy" and both liked making runs to the edge of the box. Now they've both gotten older and slower and more suited to a less attacking position. It'd probably work but people still have the old Lampard and old Gerrard in their heads.

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Jun 2014, 1:49 pm

If they treat this as a glorified friendly then the whole lot want taking outside and kicking to death by the Brazilian Riot Police.

The team talk should consist of saying that despite the fact we're out, we will NOT allow ourselves to be humiliated any further. Yes, we lost our two previous games but these f*ckers put us out of the tournament without us having a say in the matter. They will NOT be allowed the satisfaction of hammering nails in our coffins. Get out there and play with a bit of f*cking pride in the shirt, the team, the country and YOURSELF.

Die on your feet or on your knees...your choice!

If it's Stevie's last game in an England shirt (personally I'd give him a couple more at home as a fitting send off) then I'd dearly love to see him smash in a 35 yard screamer just for old time's sake.

I may be biased but those people calling for his head are C*NTS!

Once more unto the breach dear friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by GSC Mon 23 Jun 2014, 1:52 pm

I don't think people are calling for Gerrards head as much as hes clearly not good enough due to his age. Hes not Englands sole problem by any means but hes one of them.
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Post by Duty281 Mon 23 Jun 2014, 2:24 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/10917980/England-manager-Roy-Hodgson-would-have-been-sacked-if-he-was-a-foreigner-claims-Sven-Goran-Eriksson.html

Sven says that Hodgson would have been sacked if he was foreign, and the Swede also adds that he would come back to England if it was offered.

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Post by The Special Juan Mon 23 Jun 2014, 2:30 pm

DAVE667 wrote:If they treat this as a glorified friendly then the whole lot want taking outside and kicking to death by the Brazilian Riot Police.

The team talk should consist of saying that despite the fact we're out, we will NOT allow ourselves to be humiliated any further. Yes, we lost our two previous games but these f*ckers put us out of the tournament without us having a say in the matter. They will NOT be allowed the satisfaction of hammering nails in our coffins. Get out there and play with a bit of f*cking pride in the shirt, the team, the country and YOURSELF.

Die on your feet or on your knees...your choice!

If it's Stevie's last game in an England shirt (personally I'd give him a couple more at home as a fitting send off) then I'd dearly love to see him smash in a 35 yard screamer just for old time's sake.

I may be biased but those people calling for his head are C*NTS!

Once more unto the breach dear friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If that's not inspirational, nothing is.
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Post by Guest Mon 23 Jun 2014, 2:32 pm

Sven would also sh@g Ulrika if he was offered the chance so I'm not convinced by his supposed altruism.

"Gerrard's not good enough due to his age" in which case the same could be said for Wilshire. The fact is that England don't have anyone good enough to replace him.

Lemmy from Motorhead was once asked why he was still performing. His reply was, "When you can find someone who does what I do as well as I do it, then I might retire, until then...F*CK OFF!"

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Jun 2014, 2:36 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:If they treat this as a glorified friendly then the whole lot want taking outside and kicking to death by the Brazilian Riot Police.

The team talk should consist of saying that despite the fact we're out, we will NOT allow ourselves to be humiliated any further. Yes, we lost our two previous games but these f*ckers put us out of the tournament without us having a say in the matter. They will NOT be allowed the satisfaction of hammering nails in our coffins. Get out there and play with a bit of f*cking pride in the shirt, the team, the country and YOURSELF.

Die on your feet or on your knees...your choice!

If it's Stevie's last game in an England shirt (personally I'd give him a couple more at home as a fitting send off) then I'd dearly love to see him smash in a 35 yard screamer just for old time's sake.

I may be biased but those people calling for his head are C*NTS!

Once more unto the breach dear friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If that's not inspirational, nothing is.
There's probably a tad more profanity than people would perhaps appreciate. I'm reminded of Mike Bassett's team talk at half time only for the 2nd half to play out in a similar turgid manner to the first.

You can lead a horse to water....but you try taking one to the cinema (I think that might be wrong)

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Post by Duty281 Mon 23 Jun 2014, 4:41 pm

Poor Roy, he looks utterly deflated. He needs a Hug

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Post by Guest Mon 23 Jun 2014, 5:39 pm

He needs sacking, not a hug

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Post by GSC Mon 23 Jun 2014, 5:44 pm

I think you need a hug sometimes mate Laugh
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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 5:49 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Yeah Stevie G one of the biggest legends in football...
Is that a serious remark? I'm hoping it's in jest.
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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 5:54 pm

Crimey wrote:Liverpool played a diamond for two or three months out of the entire season, before that they played essentially 4-2-3-1 and Gerrard was fine retreating between the centre backs.
I'm going to let you off because of your 'rose tinted glasses'. Gerrard drops deep, looks for long balls (16% compqred to Pirlo's 9%) and slows our play down immensely.
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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:03 pm

The fact that Liverpool haven't been a top four team since Alonso and Mascherano left (until last year) speaks volumes.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:06 pm

sportform wrote:The fact that Liverpool haven't been a top four team since Alonso and Mascherano left (until last year) speaks volumes.
Speaks volumes about what?
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:10 pm

The "until last year" speaks volumes about the point you're making

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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:13 pm

Strongback wrote:If there are not enough quality players in any team they will go nowhere. It doesn't matter who the manager is.

England has a large population but isn't producing top players . Look how consistant a much smaller country like Holland is.

Too many foreigners and an U-21 Premier League reserve league that isn't fit for purpose cannot be ignored as a major major problem.
The 'not enough good quality players' argument doesn't wash when the likes of Chile, USA, Costa Rica, Algeria are doing well through simple tactical organisation and quick movement of the ball (not players running into brick qall defending like Sterling and Barkley and hailed great).

I agree with the U21 league. If the FA cut the number of players a club could have signed on to say 28 over 19s, 25 under 19s and 20 under 17s players would find their level rather tahn being stockpiled and mollycoddled. This would also reduce the price of English players.
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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:16 pm

Strongback wrote:If there are not enough quality players in any team they will go nowhere. It doesn't matter who the manager is.

England has a large population but isn't producing top players . Look how consistant a much smaller country like Holland is.

Too many foreigners and an U-21 Premier League reserve league that isn't fit for purpose cannot be ignored as a major major problem.
The 'not enough good quality players' argument doesn't wash when the likes of Chile, USA, Costa Rica, Algeria are doing well through simple tactical organisation and quick movement of the ball (not players running into brick qall defending like Sterling and Barkley and hailed great).

I agree with the U21 league. If the FA cut the number of players a club could have signed on to say 28 over 19s, 25 under 19s and 20 under 17s players would find their level rather tahn being stockpiled and mollycoddled. This would also reduce the price of English players.
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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:21 pm

DAVE667 wrote:If they treat this as a glorified friendly then the whole lot want taking outside and kicking to death by the Brazilian Riot Police.

The team talk should consist of saying that despite the fact we're out, we will NOT allow ourselves to be humiliated any further. Yes, we lost our two previous games but these f*ckers put us out of the tournament without us having a say in the matter. They will NOT be allowed the satisfaction of hammering nails in our coffins. Get out there and play with a bit of f*cking pride in the shirt, the team, the country and YOURSELF.

Die on your feet or on your knees...your choice!

If it's Stevie's last game in an England shirt (personally I'd give him a couple more at home as a fitting send off) then I'd dearly love to see him smash in a 35 yard screamer just for old time's sake.

I may be biased but those people calling for his head are C*NTS!

Once more unto the breach dear friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gerrard is nothing special. England won't/ wouldn't have missed him.
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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:29 pm

DAVE667 wrote:Sven would also sh@g Ulrika if he was offered the chance so I'm not convinced by his supposed altruism.

"Gerrard's not good enough due to his age" in which case the same could be said for Wilshire. The fact is that England don't have anyone good enough to replace him
Really? In the friendlies before the World Cup, England played higher up the pitch and with more tempo once Gerrard went off.

We could have easily qualified with:-

Wilshere, Henderson, Barkley

In the middle. The perfect blend.
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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:35 pm

Olly wrote:
sportform wrote:The fact that Liverpool haven't been a top four team since Alonso and Mascherano left (until last year) speaks volumes.
Speaks volumes about what?
That he (Gerrard) is not quite as good as people think he is.
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Post by sportform Mon 23 Jun 2014, 6:39 pm

Apologies for the number of posts... Just catching up reading through the thread.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas Mon 23 Jun 2014, 8:09 pm

Barkley has done.........nothing at all in his career so far. Few nice touches but he also looks very awkward and bambi on ice like Gerrard.

We have no intelligent midfielders or defenders. We lost because we can't control the ball combined with short intelligent tactics  OK 
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Post by Nakatomi Plaza Mon 23 Jun 2014, 8:11 pm

England team for tomorrow

Foster
Jones
Cahill
Smalling
Shaw
Milner
Lampard
Wilshere
Barkley
Lallana
Sturridge

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Post by Strongback Mon 23 Jun 2014, 8:46 pm

sportform wrote:
Strongback wrote:If there are not enough quality players in any team they will go nowhere. It doesn't matter who the manager is.

England has a large population but isn't producing top players . Look how consistant a much smaller country like Holland is.

Too many foreigners and an U-21 Premier League reserve league that isn't fit for purpose cannot be ignored as a major major problem.
The 'not enough good quality players' argument doesn't wash when the likes of Chile, USA, Costa Rica, Algeria are doing well through simple tactical organisation and quick movement of the ball (not players running into brick qall defending like Sterling and Barkley and hailed great).

I agree with the U21 league. If the FA cut the number of players a club could have signed on to say 28 over 19s, 25 under 19s and 20 under 17s players would find their level rather tahn being stockpiled and mollycoddled. This would also reduce the price of English players.


Ask most people watching the world cup and they would say Chile, the USA and Costa Rica have better players than England. The English players are very poor or past it. That's hard to admit but its true. Any team needs a base of good player if they are going to do well. The vast majority of the players in the England team would not make it into a top European side.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:04 pm

Strongback wrote:
sportform wrote:
Strongback wrote:If there are not enough quality players in any team they will go nowhere. It doesn't matter who the manager is.

England has a large population but isn't producing top players . Look how consistant a much smaller country like Holland is.

Too many foreigners and an U-21 Premier League reserve league that isn't fit for purpose cannot be ignored as a major major problem.
The 'not enough good quality players' argument doesn't wash when the likes of Chile, USA, Costa Rica, Algeria are doing well through simple tactical organisation and quick movement of the ball (not players running into brick qall defending like Sterling and Barkley and hailed great).

I agree with the U21 league. If the FA cut the number of players a club could have signed on to say 28 over 19s, 25 under 19s and 20 under 17s players would find their level rather tahn being stockpiled and mollycoddled. This would also reduce the price of English players.


Ask most people watching the world cup and they would say Chile, the USA and Costa Rica have better players than England. The English players are very poor or past it. That's hard to admit but its true.  Any team needs a base of good player if they are going to do well. The vast majority of the players in the England team would not make it into a top European side.  


No they wouldn't. Chile have two outstanding individuals in Sanchez and Vidal who would grace most sides, but they didn't beat Spain because they have better individauls, they beat them because they were better organised. The US have been producing solid sides for the past three world cups, but I honestly don't think they have any outstanding individuals. all three of these sides put the team unit above any individual, which is something a lot of fans in England seem unwilling to accept.


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Post by Lowlandbrit Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:11 pm

Strongback wrote:Ask most people watching the world cup and they would say Chile, the USA and Costa Rica have better players than England.
Disagree strongly. They don't have 11 players between them that would even make an England squad (frankly, 3 would be pushing it). There isn't a single England player that wouldn't get in those squads.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 23 Jun 2014, 9:27 pm

Nakatomi Plaza wrote:England team for tomorrow

Foster
Jones
Cahill
Smalling
Shaw
Milner
Lampard
Wilshere
Barkley
Lallana
Sturridge

Fingers crossed for Barkley!

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