McLaren looking to sign 'superstar' driver for 2015.

First topic message reminder :

Early reports are suggesting McLaren have open tentative talks with Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel to become their lead driver in 2015.

I would rule Hamilton out of the picture straightaway. I wouldn't imagine Mercedes F1 would allow their prime marketing tool to leave.

That leaves Alonso and Vettel.

Reports from Maranello claim Ferrari opened new contract talks with Alonso as soon as McLaren interest became know. A new deal that would take Alonso to the end of the 2018 season.

Alonso's made no secret of his displeasure of the woeful cars the Scuderia have provided him for the last 5 years. It's 8 years since his last WDC and times is rapidly running out. But Ferrari is the holy grail for the Spaniard. 50% chance I'd say.

Sebastian Vettel is clearly struggling in 2014. Not helped by the terrible Renault power unit. Renault are rumoured to be exiting F1 in 2016. So a move to Honda could be the correct move for the 4 time reigning world champion. There seems to be a souring of relations at RBR and their star man. At 26, Vettel can afford a year with Honda and not being a championship contender. For the return in the long run would be Red Bull like(2009/14). I think there's a 60%+ chance if this happening.

What are your thoughts?

Also McLaren are considering ditching both current drivers.

Unless Magnusson does well enough to keep the seat

Fernando wrote: So keeping K-Mag for a season or 2 isn't worth it.

Well that and I don't think he is up to the task anyway.

John wrote:McLaren aren't going to win constructors next year, so Alonso/Magnussen would be ideal. You allow Alonso to flourish in his dictatorship & you save the £15m on Button. Then, for 2016, once Honda are established, you use the Button money to bring in Bottas or Grosjean & then you can compete for the constructors. That way, you already have a strong no.2 driver in place, who would be ready to take on the mantle, when Alonso vacates. I think next year will just be a stepping stone year for McLaren.

Makes sense to me. They've got Alonso, let him have one season, whereby he's the main man, then with the Button money, bring in your 'actual' long term option in the highly rated Bottas, who Mika Hakkinen is desperately trying to get him there. Then with Alonso/Bottas, they have a strong constructors partnership.

2015 - Alonso/Magnussen
2016 - Alonso/Bottas
2017- Alonso/Bottas
2018 - Bottas/ ?

Something like that.

Yeah, that I can envisage. Not sure Honda will be upto scratch from the get-go, 2016 could be the season, where both engine & driver line-up fall into place & are at it's strongest for McLaren. Plus, Produmou's involvement in the design of the 2016 car, would be another bonus for that year.

Jenson Button looks to be heading to Porsche in the WEC to partner Mark Webber. 

Just to make a point, when I say Magnussen is a cheaper alternative to Button. I believe there are better 'cheaper' alternatives. Grosjean being one. He's very fast. Plus he come with Total sponsorship money. Hulkenberg, everyone's favourite man never to get a big seat. Jean-Eric Vergne experienced and he's a really good driver. I don't see McLaren wanting two new drivers for 2015 though.

LiamB wrote:

John wrote:McLaren aren't going to win constructors next year, so Alonso/Magnussen would be ideal. You allow Alonso to flourish in his dictatorship & you save the £15m on Button. Then, for 2016, once Honda are established, you use the Button money to bring in Bottas or Grosjean & then you can compete for the constructors. That way, you already have a strong no.2 driver in place, who would be ready to take on the mantle, when Alonso vacates. I think next year will just be a stepping stone year for McLaren.

Makes sense to me. They've got Alonso, let him have one season, whereby he's the main man, then with the Button money, bring in your 'actual' long term option in the highly rated Bottas, who Mika Hakkinen is desperately trying to get him there. Then with Alonso/Bottas, they have a strong constructors partnership.

2015 - Alonso/Magnussen
2016 - Alonso/Bottas
2017-  Alonso/Bottas
2018 - Bottas/ ?

Something like that.

What if Bottas out-performed Alonso though? Would we see similar issues as when Alonso and Hamilton were at the team?

Valtteri has proven he can compete, given a decent car and I doubt he'd want to be #2 to Alonso, especially if he proved to be equally quick (or even quicker).

To avoid issues they might want to stick with Magnussen until Alonso's ready to retire, but line up Bottas for a couple of years down the line.

Romain Grosjean looks very likely to leave Lotus. He's eager to join this manager at McLaren(and he's also a former team-mate of Alonso's). 

Grosjean's personal sponsorship with Total is a problem for Lotus next year. Lotus' engine deal with Mercedes means they will use Petronous fuel from 2015. Grosjean obviously won't cancel his Total deal. 

Lotus have lined up Checo Perez to replace Grosjean. Lotus need cash and Perez brings a bucketload from Carlos Slim

McLaren - Alonso/Grosjean (Would be interesting that duel)
Lotus - Maldonado/Perez (doesn't excite me that duo, two crash specialists but Lotus need money for the Mercedes engine deal)
Force India - Hulkenberg/Palmer?

John wrote:McLaren - Alonso/Grosjean (Would be interesting that duel)
Lotus - Maldonado/Perez (doesn't excite me that duo, two crash specialists but Lotus need money for the Mercedes engine deal)
Force India - Hulkenberg/Palmer?

Seems increasingly likely. 

Carlos Sainz Jr. seems set to miss out at Toro Rosso as well. Vergne and Lynn the last men standing.

Mclaren confirm Sam Michael leaves at the end of the season. Expect Mclaren to be top 2 next year. Everywhere he leaves gets better

Fernando wrote:Mclaren confirm Sam Michael leaves at the end of the season. Expect Mclaren to be top 2 next year. Everywhere he leaves gets better

Its almost as if they heard you!

Think Tim Goss is expected to take over the role.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Fernando wrote:Mclaren confirm Sam Michael leaves at the end of the season. Expect Mclaren to be top 2 next year. Everywhere he leaves gets better

Its almost as if they heard you!

Think Tim Goss is expected to take over the role.

Maybe Ron reads the forum

Plot Twist: John is Ron (both similarly grumpy)

Looks like it will be Fernando Alonso (2+1 year contract) and Kevin Magnussen at McLaren next year. 

Move for Alonso nearly complete, just finalising Santander's deal to become McLaren's title sponsor. 

Jenson Button heading to Porsche, he might even make his announcement in Brazil.

Yeah, it was obvious. This whole debate got boring along time ago, he dragged it on for way too long & it got tiresome the relentless questioning & debate surrounding it. 'Oh, my fans will love my decision' & 'just you wait, it's going to be exciting'. Errrrrrr, not really Fernando. Your an ageing driver, nobody really wanted to touch you, especially RB/Mercedes & you were basically left with no real alternative, other than a mid-table McLaren outfit in transition. We all knew his burning desire for a third F1 title, he feels is 'just', for his performances for Ferrari over the years, far outweighed the need to drive in Le Mans. I also don't see how his fans will love this decision either, going back to Ron/McLaren.

As far as I can see, the only winner in all these driver changes this post-season, will be Lewis Hamilton, with his two biggest genuine rivals moving to teams in transition.

As for Honda, I saw a picture 'mocked' up of what it might look like in 2015

LiamB wrote:
Your an ageing driver, nobody really wanted to touch you, especially RB/Mercedes & you were basically left with no real alternative, other than a mid-table McLaren outfit in transition. We all knew his burning desire for a third F1 title, he feels is 'just', for his performances for Ferrari over the years, far outweighed the need to drive in Le Mans. I also don't see how his fans will love this decision either, going back to Ron/McLaren.

Alain Prost won his fourth title in his 40s, so there's no reason Nando can't get his third in the next few years...assuming McLaren can build a decent car and Honda turn out a good engine.

I don't think working with Ron Dennis will be an issue. I think the main problems stemmed from Lewis being there, who was probably Ron's favourite (not really surprising). He's pragmatic and single-minded enough to put the "Ferrari-gate" business behind him (its been 6-7 years now, after all). If Alonso is going to McLaren, its because they're ready to have him back (and because he doesn't have any better options).

If that mock-up is anything like accurate, next season's cars should at least look a lot better.

Don't get why McLaren would ditch button

* Outscores his teammate by almost double the points (so far)
* Outscores the supposed god Hamilton over 3 seasons by 20 or so points
* Finishes higher in the standings (2nd) than Hamilton managed

Has never been the quickest of the quick over one lap, but his racecraft is among the best.

It's not like McLaren or Honda don't have deep pockets now. Surely if you had a race winning car you'd want both cars to be up at the front for maximum exposure? KM has been dawdling around the lower points places and just doesn't appear to be on JB's level during the races.

Problem is, Ron Dennis is a muppet.

Captain Kirk wrote:Don't get why McLaren would ditch button

* Outscores his teammate by almost double the points (so far)
* Outscores the supposed god Hamilton over 3 seasons by 20 or so points
* Finishes higher in the standings (2nd) than Hamilton managed

Has never been the quickest of the quick over one lap, but his racecraft is among the best.

It's not like McLaren or Honda don't have deep pockets now. Surely if you had a race winning car you'd want both cars to be up at the front for maximum exposure? KM has been dawdling around the lower points places and just doesn't appear to be on JB's level during the races.

Problem is, Ron Dennis is a muppet.

I'd agree but it is all about cost cutting. Magnusson is not in the same league as Button but he comes in as a heck of a lot cheaper and has youth on his side. Also I'd guess Alonso would prefer Magnusson as his team-mate - less competition, less likely to be miffed by team orders etc.

Buttons a bit average if we're honest, capable of producing results if the cars right but nothing special.

GSC wrote:Buttons a bit average if we're honest, capable of producing results if the cars right but nothing special.

Hmm what could he have achieved if the car had been right in four seasons. Thought provoking eh?

Not too bothered about Button staying, all this outcry for him is just plain sympathy for him. All Mclarens hopes & title dreams are now well & truly behind Alonso, whatever happens, Button would just be playing second fiddle, so not an ideal situation for someone who keeps saying, 'you need to feel loved at your team'. Those days are gone JB.

Button should probably just call it a day & he & his fans can ride off into the sunset, creaming over the fact he beat an out of sorts Hamilton in 2011 & that he has a world title to his name.

LiamB wrote:Not too bothered about Button staying, all this outcry for him is just plain sympathy for him. All Mclarens hopes & title dreams are now well & truly behind Alonso, whatever happens, Button would just be playing second fiddle, so not an ideal situation for someone who keeps saying, 'you need to feel loved at your team'. Those days are gone JB.

Button should probably just call it a day & he & his fans can ride off into the sunset, creaming over the fact he beat an out of sorts Hamilton in 2011 & that he has a world title to his name.

Yes that is a fair point.

Next season McLaren will put all of their eggs in the Alonso basket whether it is Magnusson or Button driving alongside him. Magnusson - it wouldn't bother him too much as he is still on a learning curve but Button would find that far from palatable at this stage of his career.

I do feel McLaren are playing their cards close to their chest just now though as the spectre of a three car team is still a possibility apparently so McLaren could accomodate everyone in that scenario.

Team orders or not, Alonso would beat Button. Aside from Hamilton(tied on points) Alonso battered all of his team mates. If Alonso's totally pulled Kimi's pants down, Buttom stands no chance what so ever.

Carlos Sainz Jnr is now being linked with the McLaren seat

Gary Paffett will end his role as a McLaren Formula 1 test and reserve driver after the 2014 season.

Vandoorne & Sainz Jr expected to be 3rd "test" drivers.

Fernando wrote:Gary Paffett will end his role as a McLaren Formula 1 test and reserve driver after the 2014 season.

Vandoorne & Sainz Jr expected to be 3rd "test" drivers.

Sainz is testing for RB this weekend

GSC wrote:Buttons a bit average if we're honest, capable of producing results if the cars right but nothing special.

Funny that. A lot of people thought Vettel was a driving god until this season. Funny how much the cars they drive can influence opinion, eh?

dyrewolfe wrote:

GSC wrote:Buttons a bit average if we're honest, capable of producing results if the cars right but nothing special.

Funny that. A lot of people thought Vettel was a driving god until this season. Funny how much the cars they drive can influence opinion, eh?

Spot on.

If Brawn had remained a dominant force for four years and Button benefited from a dominant car like Vettel had at Red Bull I will confidently say Button would have had four world titles. The fact Button is not rated much for winning a world title in a dominant car is precisely why Vettel is not seen as a legend for doing the same in a dominant car over four years. It is a shame people have double standards isnt it?

dyrewolfe wrote:

GSC wrote:Buttons a bit average if we're honest, capable of producing results if the cars right but nothing special.

Funny that. A lot of people thought Vettel was a driving god until this season. Funny how much the cars they drive can influence opinion, eh?

Vettel is a fantastic driver

GSC wrote:

Fernando wrote:Gary Paffett will end his role as a McLaren Formula 1 test and reserve driver after the 2014 season.

Vandoorne & Sainz Jr expected to be 3rd "test" drivers.

Sainz is testing for RB this weekend

That's the prize for winning Formula Renault 3.5

GSC wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

GSC wrote:Buttons a bit average if we're honest, capable of producing results if the cars right but nothing special.

Funny that. A lot of people thought Vettel was a driving god until this season. Funny how much the cars they drive can influence opinion, eh?

Vettel is a fantastic driver

What does that make Ricciardo then?

A very good driver.

This season's performances also show that Ricciado is a very good driver, who, with the same opportunities that Vettel had been given over the past four years, could of reached the same achievements as the German. That's essentially what it means. Careers are staggered, Vettel hit pot luck with the RB era under Newey & took full advantage of it, unfortunately for Ricciardo, he won't be given the same opportunity, seeing as the RB cycle has finished & is now at Mercedes.

That's how F1 works. It's more about timing, than ability, in determining your actual standing within the sport & it's history.

Wouldn't be too quick to write off RB. Given a decent engine, they're at least on par with Mercedes. Renault have a year to save their F1 future

Ricciardo will not be a World Champion in f1 anytime soon

Fernando wrote:Ricciardo will not be a World Champion in f1 anytime soon

Thanks - I'm putting a tenner on Dan to be the 2016 World Champion (and another on Alonso to be 2015 champ).

We'll see how he copes with being the guy in RB now with expectations upon him.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Fernando wrote:Ricciardo will not be a World Champion in f1 anytime soon

Thanks - I'm putting a tenner on Dan to be the 2016 World Champion (and another on Alonso to be 2015 champ).

Got a few more years of Mercedes domination yet DW. Plus if Mclaren & Honda get their Poopie together Alonso will be up around there. Daniel is a nice guy but he's not World Champion quality in the same way Nico is not World Champion quality doesn't mean he can't luck into one though 

Personally wasn't that impressed by him at Toro Rosso wasn't any better then JEV there. I do think once Kyvat settles he may get his ass whooped by Danil.

Fernando wrote:Got a few more years of Mercedes domination yet DW. Plus if Mclaren & Honda get their Poopie together Alonso will be up around there.

I see Mercedes dominating for another year, it's rare to see a constructor only win one title & then not defend it & that's been evident throughout the history of F1. Cycles of constructors domination are usually a minimum of two years, rising to multiple years, until they are toppled. Williams (86-87), McLaren (88-91), Williams (92-94), Williams (96-97), Ferrari (99-04), Renault (05-06), Ferrari (07-08), Red Bull (10-13) etc. Mercedes advantage this year is bigger than the McLaren Honda days with Senna/Prost, so to think they won't be the leaders of the pack next year is quite unimaginable.

I think RB & McLaren will play second fiddle next year. Honda chiefs are already suggesting on the dyno results, that their engine is performing to similar levels to that of the Mercedes & the Japanese are no mugs at developing Turbo's. I think they will be competitive from the get-go, it's no wonder Alonso has made this decision, he's not stupid either. Then, I would predict it would be Williams, who fall back slightly, followed by a Ferrari team in major transition.

Yeah, historically the sport is dominated for more than a year, unless there is a major regulation change, so Mercedes should be the team to beat next year too. John, you could be right about that order, something about McLaren & Honda's confidence, seems to suggest they will make significant steps towards the front of the grid & we all know RB will be there or thereabouts.

I see McLaren are now delaying their decision on the 2015 line-up until December.

LiamB wrote:

I see McLaren are now delaying their decision on the 2015 line-up until December.

No doubt waiting to see if they are going to have three drivers spots to fill. That being the case I think they'll retain both Magnusson and Button and add Alonso.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

LiamB wrote:

I see McLaren are now delaying their decision on the 2015 line-up until December.

No doubt waiting to see if they are going to have three drivers spots to fill. That being the case I think they'll retain both Magnusson and Button and add Alonso.

TBH I think there's a game within a game going on here.

If Rosberg pips Hamilton to the 2014 WDC, McLaren might see it likely they could get Hamilton back to Woking.

Whilst it's no secret that Alonso would give his left arm to be at Mercedes in 2015.

No way. Regardless of how the season finale goes Hamilton wouldn't swap Mercedes for McLaren for all the tea in china.

CaledonianCraig wrote:No way. Regardless of how the season finale goes Hamilton wouldn't swap Mercedes for McLaren for all the tea in china.

Home is where the heart is Craig...

Gerry SA wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:No way. Regardless of how the season finale goes Hamilton wouldn't swap Mercedes for McLaren for all the tea in china.

Home is where the heart is Craig...

You may be praying for that to happen (for obvious reasons) but no way in hell will that happen. Hamilton is now settled at Mercedes in the fastest car on the grid and you are suggesting he'd even consider joining a McLaren team way off the pace? Seriously? Nope no way.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:No way. Regardless of how the season finale goes Hamilton wouldn't swap Mercedes for McLaren for all the tea in china.

Home is where the heart is Craig...

You may be praying for that to happen (for obvious reasons) but no way in hell will that happen. Hamilton is now settled at Mercedes in the fastest car on the grid and you are suggesting he'd even consider joining a McLaren team way off the pace? Seriously? Nope no way.

Actually I read a report on Honda's engine development today and it suggests their engine is ahead of both the Scuderia and Renault. And if engine unfreeze happens then how's to say that Mercedes won't be dislodged?

All supposition and straw-grasping. In the here and now McLaren are nowhere and Mercedes are the dominant force and I don't see that changing next season. And by the way Hamilton and Alonso both at McLaren again?? To suggest that you'd need to be smoking Rastafarian Old Holborn.

CaledonianCraig wrote:All supposition and straw-grasping. In the here and now McLaren are nowhere and Mercedes are the dominant force and I don't see that changing next season. And by the way Hamilton and Alonso both at McLaren again?? To suggest that you'd need to be smoking Rastafarian Old Holborn.

I did say Hamilton to McLaren and Alonso to Mercedes.

Not both at Woking.

As for the dodgy smoking...I'll let you enjoy yourself Craig

Gerry SA wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:All supposition and straw-grasping. In the here and now McLaren are nowhere and Mercedes are the dominant force and I don't see that changing next season. And by the way Hamilton and Alonso both at McLaren again?? To suggest that you'd need to be smoking Rastafarian Old Holborn.

I did say Hamilton to McLaren and Alonso to Mercedes.

Not both at Woking.

As for the dodgy smoking...I'll let you enjoy yourself Craig

Jeez you have a serious Hamilton hang-up don't you? You are dreaming yourself into trying to force him away from a dominant F1 team into a team going nowhere at present and that just isn't going to happen. It is clear the reason for McLaren's delay - Brainless Bernie's three-car per team idea may be put in place. That being the case McLaren will not need to choose between Magnusson and Button to see who partners Alonso they'd just retain both.

Gerry at his old rumours again. Hamilton is going nowhere, talks were agreed to be delayed until after Abu Dhabi, so that Hamilton could focus on his driving. Lauda has also stated Lewis is going nowhere, regardless of the outcome, but if Gerry wants to believe everything on Twitter, then let him do so.

Gerry really is an embarrassmenti & boring with his responses. If the moderators on here had any sense, they would ban him. Nothing wrong with John's post, he's not even on his ****, he was stating the obvious situation & why Lewis' contract talks have been delayed. McLaren are not going to sacrifice that huge Santander sponsorship now with Alonso, so late in the game.

I knew when McLaren delayed, rumours would unearth themselves all over the place & the 'gullible' would be all over them like a tramp on chips.