McLaren looking to sign 'superstar' driver for 2015.

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Early reports are suggesting McLaren have open tentative talks with Lewis Hamilton, Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel to become their lead driver in 2015.

I would rule Hamilton out of the picture straightaway. I wouldn't imagine Mercedes F1 would allow their prime marketing tool to leave.

That leaves Alonso and Vettel.

Reports from Maranello claim Ferrari opened new contract talks with Alonso as soon as McLaren interest became know. A new deal that would take Alonso to the end of the 2018 season.

Alonso's made no secret of his displeasure of the woeful cars the Scuderia have provided him for the last 5 years. It's 8 years since his last WDC and times is rapidly running out. But Ferrari is the holy grail for the Spaniard. 50% chance I'd say.

Sebastian Vettel is clearly struggling in 2014. Not helped by the terrible Renault power unit. Renault are rumoured to be exiting F1 in 2016. So a move to Honda could be the correct move for the 4 time reigning world champion. There seems to be a souring of relations at RBR and their star man. At 26, Vettel can afford a year with Honda and not being a championship contender. For the return in the long run would be Red Bull like(2009/14). I think there's a 60%+ chance if this happening.

What are your thoughts?

Also McLaren are considering ditching both current drivers.

Fernando wrote:

GSC wrote:Buttons a good driver, but hes never really approached the top level. Makes sense for McLaren to boot him if they can get an Alonso in.

Would you say K-Mag has done enough for another season? Personally id boot him for Grosjean or Vandoorne

Hard to say with Magnussen. He's out-qualified Button quite often, but seems to struggle to maintain that level of performance over a race distance. Might be because he's still relatively new and learning his trade, or it could be that he's just not that good.

Button is still managing to score points, more often than not, in a car that is considerably off the pace. That said, we know how finicky he can be about his car set-up, so maybe he's not the best to help develop a new car.

Think if I were Ron Dennis I'd go for a line-up along the lines of Vergne (would jump at the chance) and Bianchi (if Ferrari didn't object) and just put the onus on the design to team to deliver the goods.

Grosjean is a decent shout too. He's obviously fed up with Renault, but for me he tends to blow hot and cold. Think McLaren might be looking for someone with more consistency.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Fernando wrote:

GSC wrote:Buttons a good driver, but hes never really approached the top level. Makes sense for McLaren to boot him if they can get an Alonso in.

Would you say K-Mag has done enough for another season? Personally id boot him for Grosjean or Vandoorne

Hard to say with Magnussen. He's out-qualified Button quite often, but seems to struggle to maintain that level of performance over a race distance. Might be because he's still relatively new and learning his trade, or it could be that he's just not that good.

Button is still managing to score points, more often than not, in a car that is considerably off the pace. That said, we know how finicky he can be about his car set-up, so maybe he's not the best to help develop a new car.

Think if I were Ron Dennis I'd go for a line-up along the lines of Vergne (would jump at the chance) and Bianchi (if Ferrari didn't object) and just put the onus on the design to team to deliver the goods.

Grosjean is a decent shout too. He's obviously fed up with Renault, but for me he tends to blow hot and cold. Think McLaren might be looking for someone with more consistency.

Well JB is 7 pts from being double of K-Mag, Yes it's his first season but as many people keep saying JB is getting older and seemingly declining so don't say much for K-Mag. Grosjean last season when Lotus driver seemed to be throwing off his crash kid tag with a lot of reliable & quick driving was often in the top 6 more often that not with a fair few podiums. I expect JEV may end up at Lotus if can find some sponsors. Bianchi/Hulkenburg may replace Fernando at Ferrari if he left.

IF (and its still a big if at the moment) Alonso joined McLaren I would be gobsmacked if Vettel took his place at Ferrari has some have theorised. I mean why? Just why? The RB had a bad start to the season but it is still far more consistently higher placed than Ferrari with more pace. For Vettel to move to Ferrari which isn't exactly showing any signs of improvement any time soon would be a very bad move for him.

I can see it. Vettels largely done it all at RB, with respect to other teams, winning a WDC at Ferrari is a little bit more special; especially if hes at the forefront of resurrecting the teams fortune.

GSC wrote:I can see it. Vettels largely done it all at RB, with respect to other teams, winning a WDC at Ferrari is a little bit more special; especially if hes at the forefront of resurrecting the teams fortune.

Oh I am not denying the romance of winning a world title at Ferrari but one has to be realistic and at the moment the chances of that happening any time soon is virtually nil. Wanting something to happen and making it happen are two different things. Vettel is smart enough to realise Ferrari are behind RB in the pecking order and I have no doubt Seb is looking for more titles rather than a bit of romance.

Right now sure. But Neweys gone, the head aero guys gone to McLaren.

A lot can change over one winter in F1

GSC wrote:I can see it. Vettels largely done it all at RB, with respect to other teams, winning a WDC at Ferrari is a little bit more special; especially if hes at the forefront of resurrecting the teams fortune.

I expect thats what Alonso thought when he joined.

Seriously though, I do hope they crack it next season. These cycles of 1-team domination really needs to be broken.

GSC wrote:Right now sure. But Neweys gone, the head aero guys gone to McLaren.

A lot can change over one winter in F1

Yes I realise that but Red Bull are at a far better base camp than Ferrari who have axed their team leader recently and team principle is questionable as lacks F1 experience and there is no signs on the horizon of anything changing. He'd be gambling big style if he were to go to Ferrari at present and it says it all if Alonso is really prepared to jump ship to go to McLaren - a team that has been in the doldrums for a few years now.

Yeah, if youre going to bet on a team to come good in F1, it'd be Ferrari or McLaren though.

GSC wrote:Yeah, if youre going to bet on a team to come good in F1, it'd be Ferrari or McLaren though.

Yes you would think so but the form teams of the last five years have been Red Bull and Mercedes (this year). Changing for change-sake would seem the only motive to me at the moment.

Well McLaren seem to be further through their rebuilding than Ferrari, so perhaps they're the one to gamble on?

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:Yeah, if youre going to bet on a team to come good in F1, it'd be Ferrari or McLaren though.

Yes you would think so but the form teams of the last five years have been Red Bull and Mercedes (this year). Changing for change-sake would seem the only motive to me at the moment.

Team form isnt the only motive. We've been hearing Alonso's relations with some of the people at Ferrari have been strained over the last year or two (not just the recently-departed Di Montezemolo). He might also be wanting out simply for a better working environment.

Thats if said rumours are true...

dyrewolfe wrote:Well McLaren seem to be further through their rebuilding than Ferrari, so perhaps they're the one to gamble on?

Well at least McLaren do have changes in the pipeline as in new engine suppliers and technical engineers so that could improve things but I hear nothing like that coming from Ferrari.

dyrewolfe wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:Yeah, if youre going to bet on a team to come good in F1, it'd be Ferrari or McLaren though.

Yes you would think so but the form teams of the last five years have been Red Bull and Mercedes (this year). Changing for change-sake would seem the only motive to me at the moment.

Team form isnt the only motive. We've been hearing Alonso's relations with some of the people at Ferrari have been strained over the last year or two (not just the recently-departed Di Montezemolo). he might also be wanting out simply for a better working environment.

Or as has been posted up he may see Ferrari stagnating whilst at least McLaren are striving to improve as in new engine suppliers, new technical advisors and Ron Dennis back at the team. Ferrari meanwhile, well precious little looks like it is going to change.

I dunno, I see a shakeup coming at Ferrari.

But McLarens started last year. Honda are also willing to spend big to deliver a championship winning engine it seems.

And you can bet Honda will know Merc's engine inside out since McLaren have them this year.

Probably something worth noting, Mercedes being their own engine supplier worked wonders for them, Ferrari and McLaren will have the similar arrangements next season (granted Ferrari actually have to build a good one). Red Bull remain at the mercy of Renault.

Even if there is a shake-up who is to lead it? I see Ferrari as rudderless at the moment with nobody in the management sector as having big F1 experience - that is another worry for me. Until they address many issues they won't be challenging for F1 titles any time in the next few years and will remain around where they are just now. Odd wins in freak races and intermittent podium finishes and top ten finishes.

A valid concern. At least they have a talented designer leading that section.

Obviously Marchionne will shake things up, they also have James Allison, who's effect won't be seen until next seasons design. Bob Bell is also heading to Ferrari, who worked with Renault with Alonso. To state nothing is going on at Ferrari is way off the mark. Just because Honda are entering the sport & have information on Mercedes' engines, guarantees nothing. I'm sure that Mercedes customer engines are not the full spec to that of the works team. This is F1 boys, we know the secrets that go on.

GSC wrote:A valid concern. At least they have a talented designer leading that section.

And it being a valid concern it is why I'd be shocked if Vettel left RB for Ferrari. Renault came in for lots of flack definitely but Red Bull now have the second best car on the grid (with that Renault engine) and are the only team pushing Mercedes to any degree. If I were a Vettel fan I'd be urging him to stay put or hope something crops up where Mercedes end up looking for another driver.

GSC wrote:And you can bet Honda will know Merc's engine inside out since McLaren have them this year.

Probably something worth noting, Mercedes being their own engine supplier worked wonders for them, Ferrari and McLaren will have the similar arrangements next season (granted Ferrari actually have to build a good one). Red Bull remain at the mercy of Renault.

Funny you should mention that. There was some speculation...and the question was actually put to them...about whether Red Bull might start building their own powertrains. IIRC Horner said it was something they had thought about, but decided to keep faith with Renault, who had after all helped them to 4 championships.

I wonder if they'll revisit that idea in the close season, if Renault can't quickly show improved power and reliability (they've had all season to try to figure out their issues, after all). True, they've improved a fair bit, but are still some distance behind Mercedes, over a race distance.

In Singapore Lewis was complaining about his tyres going, only for the pit to tell him he was still opening the gap to Vettel...

I can't imagine you can develop and build a F1 engine from scratch in a year and have it be competitive.

dyrewolfe is this the same Renault engine that is out-performing Ferrari and all Mercedes teams barring the works team? Definitely, they got off to a disastrous start but for the last few races it is only really the Renault-powered Red Bull that has challenged Mercedes.

At the same time, put the Merc engine in a RB, and at worse they're probably level with Mercedes.

The Renault engine has cost them a World Title bid.

GSC wrote:I can't imagine you can develop and build a F1 engine from scratch in a year and have it be competitive.

Well, I was thinking they'd be using it the season after next at the earliest. Anyway, isn't that essentially what Honda will be doing?

Honda will obviously have data on the Mercedes engine to help, but RB surely know plenty about the Renault engine?

CaledonianCraig wrote:
dyrewolfe is this the same Renault engine that is out-performing Ferrari and all Mercedes teams barring the works team? Definitely, they got off to a disastrous start but for the last few races it is only really the Renault-powered Red Bull that has challenged Mercedes.

True, but over a race distance, they're still some way off Mercedes performance. To actually challenge for wins, they still need to crank it up a few notches.

GSC wrote:At the same time, put the Merc engine in a RB, and at worse they're probably level with Mercedes.

The Renault engine has cost them a World Title bid.

Well we aren't discussing the possibility of Vettel going to Mercedes here but talking of rumours if Alonso leaves Ferrari then Vettel would replace him. That being the case Red Bull powered by Renault is a much better package than Ferrari has to offer this year even taking into account the terrible start to the season Red Bull had.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:At the same time, put the Merc engine in a RB, and at worse they're probably level with Mercedes.

The Renault engine has cost them a World Title bid.

Well we aren't discussing the possibility of Vettel going to Mercedes here but talking of rumours if Alonso leaves Ferrari then Vettel would replace him. That being the case Red Bull powered by Renault is a much better package than Ferrari has to offer this year even taking into account the terrible start to the season Red Bull had.

A bit of a left-field idea, but assuming Hamilton wins the title this year, would Rosberg think about leaving Mercedes, leaving a seat open for Vettel?


Now THAT would be interesting...

No chance of Rosberg leaving. He's a second tier driver living the high life in F1 now, in terms of competitiveness at Mercedes. He had years in the doldrums, no chance of him leaving to go back to that. Nothing was expected of him against Hamilton, so if he loses the title, it's not an embarrassment. He's signed a new deal, he's German, therefore no realistic chance of him leaving the team. If he did, it's a huge backwards step & as Magnussen says, if he left F1, be no point driving for an inferior team.

dyrewolfe wrote:

GSC wrote:I can't imagine you can develop and build a F1 engine from scratch in a year and have it be competitive.

Well, I was thinking they'd be using it the season after next at the earliest. Anyway, isn't that essentially what Honda will be doing?

Honda will obviously have data on the Mercedes engine to help, but RB surely know plenty about the Renault engine?

CaledonianCraig wrote:
dyrewolfe is this the same Renault engine that is out-performing Ferrari and all Mercedes teams barring the works team? Definitely, they got off to a disastrous start but for the last few races it is only really the Renault-powered Red Bull that has challenged Mercedes.

True, but over a race distance, they're still some way off Mercedes performance. To actually challenge for wins, they still need to crank it up a few notches.

Honda already had resources and expertise in place though. RB would be starting from scratch if they want their own engines.

LiamB wrote:Gerry, why all the Button hate? Okay, he didn't have the natural speed or superstar status but what he lacked in that department, he made up in others. He's been an intelligent, calculated & tactically supreme driver in F1 & if you look at the stats, he was probably the best driver in changeable conditions of the last few years. Yeah, he was gifted 2009 but then Vettel was gifted one or two of his WDC's. You make you own luck in this sport, through making decisions to stay or join other teams & reaping the rewards the following season, such as Hamilton has done & possibly Alonso with his potential move. It will be a shame to lose a British driver from the grid, seeing as Chilton is just an embarrassment & will be leaving too you would imagine.

There's no 'hate' for Button, just perspective view on his career. Sky F1 would have you believe Button is some sort of master technician, when in reality he's not. For a world champion to, after 15 years, still moaning that he can't get tyre temperature - shows how average he really is.

As for Chilton, I read his parents want to buy Marussia...

dyrewolfe wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

GSC wrote:At the same time, put the Merc engine in a RB, and at worse they're probably level with Mercedes.

The Renault engine has cost them a World Title bid.

Well we aren't discussing the possibility of Vettel going to Mercedes here but talking of rumours if Alonso leaves Ferrari then Vettel would replace him. That being the case Red Bull powered by Renault is a much better package than Ferrari has to offer this year even taking into account the terrible start to the season Red Bull had.

A bit of a left-field idea, but assuming Hamilton wins the title this year, would Rosberg think about leaving Mercedes, leaving a seat open for Vettel?


Now THAT would be interesting...

Can't see Sebastian at Mercedes as Lauda isn't a fan, same goes for Alonso. Lauda is a bit of a nob TBH...

Gerry SA wrote:Can't see Sebastian at Mercedes as Lauda isn't a fan, same goes for Alonso. Lauda is a bit of a nob TBH...

Is that because he likes Hamilton?

John wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Can't see Sebastian at Mercedes as Lauda isn't a fan, same goes for Alonso. Lauda is a bit of a nob TBH...

Is that because he likes Hamilton?

His ridiculous comments about Vettel actually...Not everything is about Hamilton...

John wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Can't see Sebastian at Mercedes as Lauda isn't a fan, same goes for Alonso. Lauda is a bit of a nob TBH...

Is that because he likes Hamilton?

To be fair John, He does come across as a bit of an rather opinionated knob on TV like EJ. Atleast EJ is amusing with some of his comments though.

In other news Pirelli want payment from Caterham other wise they ain't getting tyres anymore.

Caterham doesn't go fast enough to wreck road tyres

GSC wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

GSC wrote:I can't imagine you can develop and build a F1 engine from scratch in a year and have it be competitive.

Well, I was thinking they'd be using it the season after next at the earliest. Anyway, isn't that essentially what Honda will be doing?

Honda will obviously have data on the Mercedes engine to help, but RB surely know plenty about the Renault engine?

CaledonianCraig wrote:
dyrewolfe is this the same Renault engine that is out-performing Ferrari and all Mercedes teams barring the works team? Definitely, they got off to a disastrous start but for the last few races it is only really the Renault-powered Red Bull that has challenged Mercedes.

True, but over a race distance, they're still some way off Mercedes performance. To actually challenge for wins, they still need to crank it up a few notches.

Honda already had resources and expertise in place though. RB would be starting from scratch if they want their own engines.

Well, its not like Red Bull are short of res money. I'm sure they have the finances to set up an engine department if they wanted to and could just buy in the expertise, depending on how quickly they wanted a race-ready engien to put in their cars.

I agree its unlikely, but it was mooted before and is certainly possible.

GSC wrote:Caterham doesn't go fast enough to wreck road tyres

Ooh - harsh!

On a serious note its another sad reminder that life at the back of the grid is tough all round.

While I don't want the smaller teams getting any preferential treatment, I think the powers that be ought to have regular reviews on the costs of entering and running teams, to make sure things don't spiral out of control.

You see all these lesser formulas and race series which run with relatively modest budgets and you (well, I do anyway) can't help but wonder if F1 couldn't find more ways to reduce costs.

Obviously stuff like the hybrid power trains are going to be expensive, but there must be plenty of other ways to keep costs down.

Looks like the final cards have finally been played in the 2015 driver market. 

Reports are suggesting Fernando Alonso has agreed a three year contract with Honda, €35m per year. Honda will not allow him to leave in 2016 to join Mercedes. Somewhat protecting their investment, seems very fair to me. Honda would Magnussen to be Alonso's team mate in 2015. 

Elsewhere Kimi has confirmed he's not retiring and aside from his 2015 contract, he's got an option for 2016 that he will activate. 

Grosjean has a contract for 2015 with Lotus, he was holding out for a McLaren seat but nothing happening. 

Button looks to be out of luck and unless he joins one of the also rans, he won't be racing in 2015.

The 'masterplan' for Alonso was, as expected, to sign for McLaren. Pretty sure this deal was done before Russia, when Lauda stated it has been concluded. No other options for Alonso. Honda won't allow him to leave, but I'm sure Hamilton will be signing a new deal, once the season is over, therefore, the chances of a Mercedes seat were slimmer than slim for 2016. Shame for Button though as Magnussen is nothing special. It allows Fernando to create his dictatorship at McLaren & have the whole team pulling for him, in the hunt for a championship. Magnussen will be non-existent in 2015.

I would have Button ahead of Magnussen as a driver, and in terms of car development. Surely Honda have a big say or are they put off by his wages? Button is massive in Japan.

seanmichaels wrote:I would have Button ahead of Magnussen as a driver, and in terms of car development. Surely Honda have a big say or are they put off by his wages? Button is massive in Japan.

If Honda are paying Alonso €35m per season, then McLaren can pay Magnussen a considerably less wage(say around €2-4m per season).

Butto. Is currently on around €15m per season. Magnussen will be seen as better value for money in the hope his growth is X amount. Whereas Button's on the way down.

Purely on driving ability and at comparing the two drivers results this year then there is no competition - Button is the one to keep. However, Gerry makes a valid point and McLaren may be forced into opting for the cheaper option - Magnussen.

Honestly, Jensons a bit average.

Magnussons cheaper and has potential long term value

Button has nearly double the amount of points than Magnussen this season. You can't just assume Magnussen will get better.

No, but with Alonso you have guaranteed top level performances. Do you partner him with a steady, if unspectacular expensive ageing option in Button, or a cheap guy with potential (not necessarily Magnusson).

The money comes from the constructors Alonso can't do it on his own.

Eh, Honda and Santander will pay for Alonso anyway.

Its more keeping an eye on the future with 2 drivers nearing the end.

McLaren aren't going to win constructors next year, so Alonso/Magnussen would be ideal. You allow Alonso to flourish in his dictatorship & you save the £15m on Button. Then, for 2016, once Honda are established, you use the Button money to bring in Bottas or Grosjean & then you can compete for the constructors. That way, you already have a strong no.2 driver in place, who would be ready to take on the mantle, when Alonso vacates. I think next year will just be a stepping stone year for McLaren.

There is no two ways about it - Button is the better driver but Magnussen is the cheaper and younger option. If you consider Alonso may just be there for one year then you'd want a youngster to build the team around. I don't think Magnussen is the man for the job but McLaren may be stuck with him.

If Alonso signs a deal for 3 years, Magnussen will be gone by the end of it. Ron has a hard-on for Vandoorne & Bottas so inevitably one will get a seat by then. So keeping K-Mag for a season or 2 isn't worth it.