Weight-classes, rehydration - Crawford v Gamboa, Gatti v Gamache

This weekend, for a fight at 135lbs, Crawford entered into the ring at 152lbs and Gamboa around 145lbs. Obviously, no one forced Gamboa to take the fight but there is no doubting how much bigger Crawford is, naturally; and how much more he rehydrated. Gamboa held his own for a while and did get sloppy and knocked down several times but had it been any other 135lber, could it have been much worse?

Go back a decade or so and we have Gatti v Gamache; where Gatti came in 19lbs over the contracted fight weight and looked way bigger than Gamache in the ring - easily mauling him and leaving him with permanent damage.

It was in the 1980s that the Nevada Commission decided to have fighters way in 24 hours prior to a fight for health reasons and now, 30 years later, it seems just as controversial as same day weigh-ins with opinion split both ways.

Is there any answer to this or is it a case of there being no perfect options and advantages/disadvantages whichever option is chosen in terms of weigh-in day?

It is quite a big problem, one of the reasons I give less credit for weight hopping now, tends just to be guys draining less to make weight until they reach a division they make comfortably.

No matter what you do you'll always end up with fights where one man is vastly bigger than the other but it should be made more of a level playing field. Gamboa rehydrating 10lbs himself is pretty poor really but Crawford going from 135lbs to 152lbs is just ridiculous.

Would prefer going back to on the day weigh ins, if Boxer A wishes to still drain to make weight then that's his problem but his opponent will be put at less of a disadvantage.

Introducing a rule were the ring weight can be no more than 10lbs over the weight class would be a start.

Its a major issue that bizzarely gets very little attention given how huge an impact it can have on a fight and how much it fudges the weight classes.

Same day weigh ins were much better.

weight cutting ability is right up there with a great jab or cast iron chin, its all part of modern day boxing. if you can do it better than others then why not?

compelling and rich wrote:weight cutting ability is right up there with a great jab or cast iron chin, its all part of modern day boxing. if you can do it better than others then why not?

It also raises questions of how they do it which is part of the problem.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:weight cutting ability is right up there with a great jab or cast iron chin, its all part of modern day boxing. if you can do it better than others then why not?

It also raises questions of how they do it which is part of the problem.

oh im all for stepping up the non existent drug testing in boxing, should have the strictest tests in sport not the worse!!

Well if size is as natural an attribute as power, speed or chin then why have weight classes at all?

There is no easy answer, the change was made with all the best of intentions, to ensure people did not enter the ring dangerously dehydrated, however we have just changed that danger with certain guys entering the ring ridiculously over the weight limit they are fighting at. Personally I prefer day of fight weigh ins, but as both systems have proven no matter what system you put in place fighters will push themselves beyond what is sensible to gain an advantage beyond what their ability can provide.

Strongy has made an eminently sensible suggestion that no fighter can enter the ring more than 10lb above the limit. However I would suggest it is one that would be virtually impossible to enforce. When would we weigh the fighters to ensure they meet the requirement? An hour, two hours before fight time? What if they fail, do we call the fight off with the TV cameras and show already underway and an arena full of people sat in their seat waiting the fight?

Would not fancy being the guy who goes in the ring to tell everyone the main event is cancelled? This is the problem with this whole issue. There are any number of answers/suggestions as to how to deal with it, but for most of them the logistics are nigh on impossible to implement.

Gamache weighed in at 140 ¼ pounds however the controversy started when Gatti stepped on the scales. With the marker set at 141 pounds when Gatti stood on the scales it appeared that the needle rose past this marker at which point Gatti’s was instructed to raise his arms which made the needle jump and the weight was called at 140 pounds

Gatti jumped off the scales he started drinking fluids which ruled out the possibility of a re-weighing him despite heavy protests from Gamache’s camp led by his advisor Johnny Bos and trainer Jimmy Glenn. Bos and Glenn wanted Gatti weighed again but the response from the New York State Athletic Commision’s executive director Tony Russo who supervised the weigh-in was unsavoury and put Gamache in an awkward situation of fight or lose his money. Gatti entered the ring at 160 pounds and Gamache at 144 pounds which is a weight difference of 16 pounds which defies the law of no more than 12 pounds separating these fighters.

Rowley wrote:There is no easy answer, the change was made with all the best of intentions, to ensure people did not enter the ring dangerously dehydrated, however we have just changed that danger with certain guys entering the ring ridiculously over the weight limit they are fighting at. Personally I prefer day of fight weigh ins, but as both systems have proven no matter what system you put in place fighters will push themselves beyond what is sensible to gain an advantage beyond what their ability can provide.

Strongy has made an eminently sensible suggestion that no fighter can enter the ring more than 10lb above the limit. However I would suggest it is one that would be virtually impossible to enforce. When would we weigh the fighters to ensure they meet the requirement? An hour, two hours before fight time? What if they fail, do we call the fight off with the TV cameras and show already underway and an arena full of people sat in their seat waiting the fight?

Would not fancy being the guy who goes in the ring to tell everyone the main event is cancelled? This is the problem with this whole issue. There are any number of answers/suggestions as to how to deal with it, but for most of them the logistics are nigh on impossible to implement.

Why would a fight have to be cancelled? It would be pretty straightforward to impose rehydration limits. If fighters breach them then they should face heavy penalties. If there is a title on the line then it should only be available to those who stay inside the limits.

If they insist on day before weigh ins, I think the rule should be that a fighter cannot rehydrate above the limit of the division that is directly above them. That should allow some reasonable room for rehydrating for fighters that are a bit tight at the weight whilst ensuring it doesn't get out of hand. If they breach the rules then they should face mandatory penalties.

I'm afraid financial penalties may not be enough to dissuade rich superstrars from entering the ring overweight (unless it was 50% of purse per lb)? If a fighter withdrew from a fight at short notice he'd soon lose the favour of fans and promoters alike.

catchweight wrote:

Why would a fight have to be cancelled?

It wouldn't, however if we're worried about the health risks allowing the fight to continue or not giving the wronged party the chance to withdraw from the fight hardly addresses these issues.

Oh diddums so someone weighs five pounds more than you.....Got guys that weigh a stone heavier than me at the gym doesn't mean they are stronger than me...No correlation between weight and strength...

Heavyweights routinely beat guys that are ten pounds heavier than them....Never bothered Fitz or Louis.....

My advice box well, beat them to the punch and win the fight..

Do we want to see Owen and Kim dying because they've bled for the weigh in....Not for me...

Being a few pounds heavier than someone has never won a fight.......Being careless though and getting caught has..........

What next 8oz gloves for boxers and 14oz for punchers...

If I'm naturally bigger than you deal with it !!..............Beat me with skill that's what Boxing is all about..

Boxing has never been a level playing field..........110 degree heat in the Belfast Hall............Giving dangerous fighters less notice before a fight...Small rings...

If someone is bigger than you and you don't like it ..Don't take the fight...No one is forcing you..

Manny, Oscar and JMM can feel very proud of their weight jumping success....

Johnny Owen had absolutely nothing to do with draining to make weight Truss, he had an unusually thin skull and was a ticking timebomb, he wouldn't be cleared to fight nowadays.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Do we want to see Owen and Kim dying because they've bled for the weigh in....Not for me...

If fighters do bleed for the weigh in, who or what is to blame? Is it the system or the fighters themselves?

There are plenty of divisions around now so fighters shouldn't have to be struggling to make weight, even with same day weigh ins.

Im satisfied with day before weigh-ins. Fighters cut weight and always have. Reducing the number of weight categories would stop lightweights fighting junior middleweights because thered be less impetus to drop down a weight not far removed from your own because the weight wouldnt exist.

A point of interest: amateur boxing has recently reduced the number of weight categories to 10 (including super heavyweight).....the new heavy weight limit has been extended from 86kg - 91kg to 81kg -91kg....that's a whopping 22lb weight category.....meaning those who used to walk around at 91 will no longer attempt to boil down to the old 86, thus they will fight at their more natural weight.

Rowley wrote:

catchweight wrote:

Why would a fight have to be cancelled?

It wouldn't, however if we're worried about the health risks allowing the fight to continue or not giving the wronged party the chance to withdraw from the fight hardly addresses these issues.

It does address it. It imposes strict penalties for non compliance aimed at reducing it happening.