Pro 12 sponsor

First topic message reminder :

Does anyone have the latest with what's going on with the Pro 12?

Quite concerning it is July and still no word on it - who is doing the negotiating?

If this is being discussed somewhere else let me know!

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote: Both?

Yep. Because the sponsorship rose by £1m a year.

Ah, ok. Still not clear on your answer though. £1m a year on top of the £5m? which would mean the AP getting £9m a year. Have you a link? It's just that I have read £20m over 4 years, and no mention of increases. 

Thanks  

Apologies, I've cocked up. It's exactly the same deal as Guinness. I was under the impression it was £25m over 4 years So I was wrong on that.

I suppose you could say that the market value of the English premiership sponsor wise has not increased then. However, tv money isn't factored in.

When you compare the English and Celtic leagues. There is no question of what the better product is and how successful it is.

Thanks, Chunky. I was going the long way around in trying to explain that using the 2005 Guinness sponsorship of the English premiership isn't a good rule of thumb on the value of the Pro12 today. The reason being that the marketing value of sports globally have decreased in that time. Global economic downturn. Might be on the rise again though.
The marketing value of the Pro12, the AP, and T14 leagues are all going to be different, Chunky, but marketing value isn't always a reflection on quality, but more based on market potential, and existing viewership. Money does make a difference though, and can/does/will effect the quality of the leagues. 
I don't expect anywhere near £5m a year for the Pro12. Closer to £5m over four years, I would think.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Unlike any other winner of the HC it generally is the same two teams from any league.

If you think the top 10 teams in the aviva are weaker than the top 10 teams in the pro12, then I don't want to visit the rest of your brain.

proof is in the European cups

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Unlike any other winner of the HC it generally is the same two teams from any league.

If you think the top 10 teams in the aviva are weaker than the top 10 teams in the pro12, then I don't want to visit the rest of your brain.

proof is in the European cups

for the record i would say there is very little between the top ten in the Pro 12 and Aviva

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Unlike any other winner of the HC it generally is the same two teams from any league.

If you think the top 10 teams in the aviva are weaker than the top 10 teams in the pro12, then I don't want to visit the rest of your brain.

proof is in the European cups

I totally agree.

The 7th and 8th placed teams in last seasons Aviva have won the main European cup. As far as I know, the equivalent in the pro12 - Cardiff and Edinburgh haven't.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Unlike any other winner of the HC it generally is the same two teams from any league.

If you think the top 10 teams in the aviva are weaker than the top 10 teams in the pro12, then I don't want to visit the rest of your brain.

proof is in the European cups

I totally agree.

The 7th and 8th placed teams in last seasons Aviva have won the main European cup. As far as I know, the equivalent in the pro12 - Cardiff and Edinburgh haven't.

clearly they arent been managed properly recently so

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

for the record i would say there is very little between the top ten in the Pro 12 and Aviva

But I thought we were told about 6 months ago that the Welsh regions wouldn't stand a chance in the Aviva Prem if they scarpered there - and would be relegated in the first season?

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
clearly they arent been managed properly recently so

eh?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Unlike any other winner of the HC it generally is the same two teams from any league.

If you think the top 10 teams in the aviva are weaker than the top 10 teams in the pro12, then I don't want to visit the rest of your brain.

proof is in the European cups

I totally agree.

The 7th and 8th placed teams in last seasons Aviva have won the main European cup. As far as I know, the equivalent in the pro12 - Cardiff and Edinburgh haven't.

What are you talking about? That was like 15 years ago, things have changed since then   

VinceWLB wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Unlike any other winner of the HC it generally is the same two teams from any league.

If you think the top 10 teams in the aviva are weaker than the top 10 teams in the pro12, then I don't want to visit the rest of your brain.

proof is in the European cups

I totally agree.

The 7th and 8th placed teams in last seasons Aviva have won the main European cup. As far as I know, the equivalent in the pro12 - Cardiff and Edinburgh haven't.

What are you talking about? That was like 15 years ago, things have changed since then   

But the "proof is in the European cups". GoodInTightSpaces said so.

RDW_Scotland wrote:So, since we're in the business of flogging dead horses in our debates, anyone want to discuss the following:

- Neil Back's hand of God against Munster
- Brian O'Driscoll being taken out of the 2005 Lions tour
- The lack of Scots in the 2009 Lions tour
- Mike Phillips using of the wrong ball in the 2011 6N
- The lack of Scots in the 2013 Lions tour
- Brian O'Driscoll being dropped for the final Aus test
- Delon Armitage waving as he crosses the line
- Stuart Hogg's red card

Anyone?

  

I'm disappointed that Bloodgate isn't an option... afterall, this is a Club thread and one concerned with European Cups.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

Unlike any other winner of the HC it generally is the same two teams from any league.

If you think the top 10 teams in the aviva are weaker than the top 10 teams in the pro12, then I don't want to visit the rest of your brain.

proof is in the European cups

I totally agree.

The 7th and 8th placed teams in last seasons Aviva have won the main European cup. As far as I know, the equivalent in the pro12 - Cardiff and Edinburgh haven't.

What are you talking about? That was like 15 years ago, things have changed since then   

But the "proof is in the European cups". GoodInTightSpaces said so.

allow me to move the goal posts. the proof is in HC's in the last 10 years

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
allow me to move the goal posts. the proof is in HC's in the last 10 years

The HC wasn't the Best European competition then though, mate.  The new one will be... or has the potential to be if the right folks win it

SecretFly wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:So, since we're in the business of flogging dead horses in our debates, anyone want to discuss the following:

- Neil Back's hand of God against Munster
- Brian O'Driscoll being taken out of the 2005 Lions tour
- The lack of Scots in the 2009 Lions tour
- Mike Phillips using of the wrong ball in the 2011 6N
- The lack of Scots in the 2013 Lions tour
- Brian O'Driscoll being dropped for the final Aus test
- Delon Armitage waving as he crosses the line
- Stuart Hogg's red card

Anyone?

  

I'm disappointed that Bloodgate isn't an option... afterall, this is a Club thread and one concerned with European Cups.

Of course - how could I have missed that one out! Was more thinking back to historic bickering sessions on the old 606 and V2.

SecretFly wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
allow me to move the goal posts. the proof is in HC's in the last 10 years

The HC wasn't the Best European competition then though, mate.  The new one will be... or has the potential to be if the right folks win it

i just hope we can get the right winners this time round. i couldnt have this conversation again next year when we could be talking about the the "European mark II Champions Cup"

Old BBC 606 bickering sessions.................

hmmmm, can I remember any of them?

Gav was certainly a central character in many of them. Likkle Shane was another. God, time is clouding my memory on specifics. The funniest one though from my perspective as an Irish guy was when McFadden broke the world record for lowest centre of gravity and only us Irish would accept the truth as fact.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

allow me to move the goal posts. the proof is in HC's in the last 10 years

    Amazing. By a mere coincidence I'm sure, you want me to discount ALL the years that Munster or Leinster didn't win it. And include ALL the years that they did?

Yeah, pro12 is the best.

RDW_Scotland wrote:So, since we're in the business of flogging dead horses in our debates, anyone want to discuss the following:

- Neil Back's hand of God against Munster
- Brian O'Driscoll being taken out of the 2005 Lions tour
- The lack of Scots in the 2009 Lions tour
- Mike Phillips using of the wrong ball in the 2011 6N
- The lack of Scots in the 2013 Lions tour
- Brian O'Driscoll being dropped for the final Aus test
- Delon Armitage waving as he crosses the line
- Stuart Hogg's red card

Anyone?

  

Ill take option 4.

It wasnt his fault - "Should have gone to Specksavers!"   

Chunky Norwich wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

allow me to move the goal posts. the proof is in HC's in the last 10 years

    Amazing. By a mere coincidence I'm sure, you want me to discount ALL the years that Munster or Leinster didn't win it. And include ALL the years that they did?

Yeah, pro12 is the best.

....but Munster and Leinster only started winning when they actually learned to play.  

Of course, before that date, the English and French still liked to play them when they were still farmers and chicken dealing cattle rustlers................ and........the English and French still crowed about the wins.  
But when Leinster and Munster actually caught up, then the Gryte Contest between the Cocks and the Lions was defiled by them other types from the Wild West...the contest was devalued and had to be reshod.

Its comparing Apples to Oranges lads. Key leading questions in terms of the sport in general below:

Which is the most financial viable league - its actually the Top14 if we are basing this on terms of sponsors and television deals

Which League contributes the most to International Rugby - Pro 12

Which League has the highest paid players - Top 14

Which League is the most successful in Europe? Not sure on this - got to be the Top 14 again though I would have thought.

Most World Stars in it? Top 14

Biggest Crowds:- Top14


Not really sure whats left to ask in terms of questions really? I just dont think any of those questions make a real difference in terms of the genuine quality of each league. We have our toys, you have yours. Lets just agree to disagree.

Welshmushroom wrote:Its comparing Apples to Oranges lads.  Key leading questions in terms of the sport in general below:

Which is the most financial viable league - its actually the Top14 if we are basing this on terms of sponsors and television deals

Which League contributes the most to International Rugby - Pro 12

Which League has the highest paid players - Top 14

Which League is the most successful in Europe?  Not sure on this - got to be the Top 14 again though I would have thought.

Most World Stars in it?  Top 14

Biggest Crowds:- Top14


Not really sure whats left to ask in terms of questions really?  I just dont think any of those questions make a real difference in terms of the genuine quality of each league.  We have our toys, you have yours.  Lets just agree to disagree.

Got to agree with you.

Why does it matter which league is better? Is this just a case of trying to prove 'my dad is harder than your dad'?

The are very different leagues with very different identities and population bases. The population of Scotland, Ireland and Wales combined is 1/5 the size of England, and that's not allowing for the fact that the majority of Scotland don't even know there are 2 pro rugby teams.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Why does it matter which league is better? Is this just a case of trying to prove 'my dad is harder than your dad'?
.

No. It's a case of trying to prove why the Welsh regions want out of it, struggle to attract crowds, struggle to increase income and call it a shoddy league.

We don't call it a shoddy league because we have nothing better to do.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Why does it matter which league is better? Is this just a case of trying to prove 'my dad is harder than your dad'?
.

No. It's a case of trying to prove why the Welsh regions want out of it, struggle to attract crowds, struggle to increase income and call it a shoddy league.
.

PRL had the same things to say about ERC.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Why does it matter which league is better? Is this just a case of trying to prove 'my dad is harder than your dad'?
.

No. It's a case of trying to prove why the Welsh regions want out of it, struggle to attract crowds, struggle to increase income and call it a shoddy league.
.

PRL had the same things to say about ERC.

And the PRL got their changes, so fingers crossed we will get ours with more advanced warning of fixture dates and ko times, more fan friendly ko times etc. But I won't hold my breathe.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Why does it matter which league is better? Is this just a case of trying to prove 'my dad is harder than your dad'?
.

No. It's a case of trying to prove why the Welsh regions want out of it, struggle to attract crowds, struggle to increase income and call it a shoddy league.
.

PRL had the same things to say about ERC.

And the PRL got their changes, so fingers crossed we will get ours with more advanced warning of fixture dates and ko times, more fan friendly ko times etc.  But I won't hold my breathe.

An earlier fixture list would be nice, but are the times not down to your broadcaster?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Why does it matter which league is better? Is this just a case of trying to prove 'my dad is harder than your dad'?
.

No. It's a case of trying to prove why the Welsh regions want out of it, struggle to attract crowds, struggle to increase income and call it a shoddy league.
.

PRL had the same things to say about ERC.

And the PRL got their changes, so fingers crossed we will get ours with more advanced warning of fixture dates and ko times, more fan friendly ko times etc.  But I won't hold my breathe.

The strange thing is about some of that - and it happens here too - but the idea seems to be that the successful part of the Pro12 is the 'Derby' aspect.  Region against Region - Province against Province.  
That seems to be the alluring aspect that allegedly would attract many 'potential' supporters. And certain fans seem to think there should be more ways to have more of them.
I personally like some of them but hate the over-zealousness of the publicity that surrounds them because in truth I much prefer the mini-International aspect of a Welsh/Irish game or a Scottish/Irish game.  The sheer intensity of these encounters should always prove more alluring than yet another game between the in-fighting neighbours. Afterall, that's one of the main cries from those Welsh Regional fans who wanted a return to an English Welsh league.  They say that extra bite that would exist between English and Welsh clubs is what would put bums on seats. And yet..................................., it seems the inter-National games in Pro12 are considered the virtual turn-off games for Welsh fans? I never get that. It's a strange one.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Why does it matter which league is better? Is this just a case of trying to prove 'my dad is harder than your dad'?
.

No. It's a case of trying to prove why the Welsh regions want out of it, struggle to attract crowds, struggle to increase income and call it a shoddy league.
.

PRL had the same things to say about ERC.

Yes, the ERC...... 'the ERC is dead, long live the .... um .... something or other ...  you know ..... from the big list of sponsors we have lined up ... allegedly......

Funny how the dead, " not fit for purpose " (claim by Premier rugby chairman, Quentin Smith) ERC will be running the super duper cup all next season   

Fixtures being announced at 11am tomorrow

RDW_Scotland wrote:Fixtures being announced at 11am tomorrow

Will that be a list of wk1, wk2.....dates any ko times TBA? Or an actual useful fixture list with the first block of fixture all with dates and ko times?

It's pretty inevitable when a competition is split between several broadcasters and governing bodies as opposed to one governing body and one broadcaster that the fixture list takes longer to finalise, but at the same time I'm not sure I'd appreciate the extra organisation for a lower percentage of televised games and no games on free to air. I think we're spoilt compared to the coverage AP sides got on Sky with often 4 or 5 games televised every week. In terms of Welsh complainers of course any delay in scheduling has as much to do with their regions, their broadcasters, their representatives, their union as it has to do with anyone else. They are in no position to point fingers but even so, no-one likes pointing fingers at themselves. I wish it was better organised- much less than I wish the allocation of referees and the citing process was better organised but even so- but its hardly an issue in planning away trips.

In repsonse to SecretFlys post...

The Welsh have a very strange relationship with England Fly, its a very different place to Scotland or Ireland which is why i find the whole 'Celtic' fudge slightly baffling. They don't have as much desire for independence as we do, AT LEAST NOT IN TERMS OF SPORT, they are closer to the English than us in cultural terms... You simply can't expect them to think about this like they are Irish. Their relationship with England is not exactly brotherly love but it is a lot different to ours. As far as the Pro12 goes; One its less well organised and prestigious than its direct rivals but two its a format that the Welsh are finding it harder and harder to actually be successful in. They were used to being easily dominant over us in rugby terms pre-professionalism so the sight of the big two Irish provinces and now Glasgow and Ulster as well leaving them in the dirt of their wake due to chronic mismanagement hurts and sometimes they need to vent about it. For them, Ireland and Scotland are still the bush leagues and even worse- they aren't even making the grade in those bush leagues. They are coming in mid table. It's a bit like the Woody Allen joke;

'The food here is so terrible!
'I know, and such small portions!'

'The league is such a farce'
'I know! And so hard for us to compete in'

This illustrates a fundamental problem for the Pro12, the potential lack of any feel good factor throughout Welsh/Irish/Scottish rugby as whole. Your English side might not be successful, but an English side will win the English league. Someone in England will be a champion and people follow winners. If Welsh rugby is not properly resourced, they face the spectre as a rugby nation of having no winners to follow- year after year. Welsh rugby has tried to establish new 'brands' that cover vast areas out of nothing and they need those 'brands' to be viewed as winners.

Is it any wonder fans start looking for implausible miracle cures like hoping the PRL will deign to let them enter? The Welsh game is the sick man in Europe. While others grow and get stronger they are getting weaker. People start looking for scapegoats then and the league is one of them. That in my mind is bigger contributor to the bellyaching over the Pro12 than anything else.

But we need to shake our own complacency about the Pro12 and try and push it forward in every sense because if the Welsh do succeed in committing Hara Kiri they'll damage everyone.

I'd imagine it would just be weekend of, judging by what's happened in previous years.

Notch what will it take to get that welsh chip of your shoulders? The only people blaming others for everything are not the welsh.

Good post, Notch.

As for the feel good factor, what the league has always needed badly was a big dose of the sky hype machine. Its a massive bonus having them on board.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Notch what will it take to get that welsh chip of your shoulders?  The only people blaming others for everything are not the welsh.  

Hmmm not sure about. A wee read of Gwlad informs me otherwise. Unfortunately this whole Euro mess has created a bit of bad feeling on both sides, but you're right. It isn't all the fault of the Welsh, and it isn't the fault of the Irish...

.... it's all the fault of the English!  

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Notch what will it take to get that welsh chip of your shoulders?  The only people blaming others for everything are not the welsh.  

I don't have a chip on my shoulders, I'm just trying to put Welsh discontent with the status quo in perspective for those who are happy with the status quo i.e. the other three nations in the Pro12. I'm responding to the views of others like Chunky Norwich.

You come online and you read the views of Irish and Scottish fans who are happy enough and Welsh fans who are on the warpath. Doesn't take a genius to figure out who is unhappy or who has a chip on their shoulder. The only thing I'm interested in is why. Irish and Scottish fans aren't blaming anybody. It's not us who are in the rush to ascribe blame!

If you go on a site like Gwlad, you'll find near pathological levels of animosity towards the Irish as well as the Pro12. The two phenomena are obviously linked.

Munchkin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Notch what will it take to get that welsh chip of your shoulders?  The only people blaming others for everything are not the welsh.  

Hmmm not sure about. A wee read of Gwlad informs me otherwise. Unfortunately this whole Euro mess has created a bit of bad feeling on both sides, but you're right. It isn't all the fault of the Welsh, and it isn't the fault of the Irish...

.... it's all the fault of the English!  

This isn't gwald though, its 606v2, supposedly a friendly site for debate not witch hunts, that's what used to make this site decent, sadly that's not looking like the case anymore!

Nice one tar everyone with the same brush, which you've taken from elsewhere

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Nice one tar everyone with the same brush, which you've taken from elsewhere

I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, I'm trying to explain the attitude of a portion of Welsh supporters who are hostile beyond reason. If you aren't a part of that group then brilliant.

I actually have a strong vested interest in Welsh rugby being strong and wish it was stronger.

Even many of the more level-headed Welsh fans have issues with the Pro12 and the regional set-up so I don't think its unfair to try and explain why that is...

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Notch what will it take to get that welsh chip of your shoulders?  The only people blaming others for everything are not the welsh.  

Hmmm not sure about. A wee read of Gwlad informs me otherwise. Unfortunately this whole Euro mess has created a bit of bad feeling on both sides, but you're right. It isn't all the fault of the Welsh, and it isn't the fault of the Irish...

.... it's all the fault of the English!  

This isn't gwald though, its 606v2, supposedly a friendly site for debate not witch hunts, that's what used to make this site decent, sadly that's not looking like the case anymore!

True, it isn't Gwlad. Thankfully. There's been enough dross aimed at the Irish on these forums to fill a book ... well ... ok .... maybe the Beano. On other sites the tin foil hat brigade abound, not so much here, but if the same brigade had an ounce of sense they might be a little more introspective, and self-aware. Better to build bridges, not burn them, and not whilst you're standing on them.

One last thing Scarlets. If the positions of Irish and Welsh rugby were reversed (and who knows what will happen in the future), you would see the exact same sentiments in reverse. Have no doubt of it! All I'm interested in is why that is

Notch, check your pms mate

Notch wrote:As far as the Pro12 goes; One its less well organised and prestigious than its direct rivals but two its a format that the Welsh are finding it harder and harder to actually be successful in. They were used to being easily dominant over us in rugby terms pre-professionalism so the sight of the big two Irish provinces and now Glasgow and Ulster as well leaving them in the dirt of their wake due to chronic mismanagement hurts and sometimes they need to vent about it. For them, Ireland and Scotland are still the bush leagues and even worse- they aren't even making the grade in those bush leagues. They are coming in mid table. It's a bit like the Woody Allen joke;

'The food here is so terrible!
'I know, and such small portions!'

'The league is such a farce'
'I know! And so hard for us to compete in'


Is it any wonder fans start looking for implausible miracle cures like hoping the PRL will deign to let them enter? The Welsh game is the sick man in Europe. While others grow and get stronger they are getting weaker. People start looking for scapegoats then and the league is one of them. That in my mind is bigger contributor to the bellyaching over the Pro12 than anything else.

But we need to shake our own complacency about the Pro12 and try and push it forward in every sense because if the Welsh do succeed in committing Hara Kiri they'll damage everyone.

As well as being impressively condescending towards the Welsh you also manage to provide a fine example of why no sensible debate can be found on here regarding P12 or ERC. It's this childish belief that no person or organisation could ever want to see change for any other reason than to protect themselves from Irish domination. Absolutely no legitimate concerns exist, they are just taking their ball home and not playing with the Irish anymore. Never mind the fact that the English clubs were already showing signs of wanting to leave if changes weren't made before the Irish success kicked in (when the reigning champions were, er, English). Never mind that Welsh regional rugby is clearly in a bad state and need to be exploring all options to see what can be done to help, including questioning whether or not the pro12  suits their needs. Nope, can't possibly be that. Has to be an underhanded attempt at handicapping those bloody upstarts from across the water, right?

I know you're keen to present it as plucky underdogs who rose up to fight the oppression but no reasonable discussion can happen whilst any grievances are shrugged off as being a smoke screen for the attempts by the man to hold you down.

Aw no thats not fair, legitimate concerns do exist but I don't think there is the amount of concerns that justify the amount of complaints.

Things the Pro12 needs to improve on for me;

Refereeing standards, independent citing panels, independent and transparent disciplinary process, centralised approach to marketing, fairer deal for Italian sides (seems to have been negotiated), better scheduling including keeping most marketable fixtures out of international windows.

But I do think you hit on something when you say;

Never mind that Welsh regional rugby is clearly in a bad state and need to be exploring all options to see what can be done to help, including questioning whether or not the pro12  suits their needs.

I think that Welsh rugby is in a bad state and people are questioning whether the Pro12 suits their needs because of that, not because of anything thats particularly wrong with the Pro12. After all, the only other credible option for Welsh rugby is to go it alone. And I really don't think that is sustainable. What I think is very sad about the current situation is the PRL dangled the carrot of the Welsh regions joining the Aviva Prem as a negotiating tactic/nuclear option and people thought it was a realistic prospect... even seemingly people high up in the regions. And it never was. It might be in the future again sometime and it might have been in the past but as soon as a new European Cup was announced it was 'no room in the inn, sorry folks'.

You're back to square one then. You need professional teams and they need someone to play. You can run down the Pro12 but its the best you've got and the regions need to find a way to make it work or they'll not thrive or maybe even survive.

As for underdogs; we're not underdogs. If we ever were, those days are gone. We may be against the big spending French teams but no, never underdogs in the Pro12 and we won't be for a long time by the looks of things. Unless your name is Connacht maybe. And no-one is trying to hold us down. We don't need any of this underdog shoite!

Good post Notch and I don't often say that.

Notch, the Welsh teams entering the Premiership was always talked about as option if the European cup didn't go ahead. And you are of course assuming that the PRL 'used' the Regions. Not that everyone knew it wasn't going to happen.

Many Welsh fans (although not on here) got excited by the thought of joining the Premiership and spun it into something it never was. It was only every discussed as a last resort.

HammerofThunor wrote:Notch, the Welsh teams entering the Premiership was always talked about as option if the European cup didn't go ahead. And you are of course assuming that the PRL 'used' the Regions. Not that everyone knew it wasn't going to happen.

Many Welsh fans (although not on here) got excited by the thought of joining the Premiership and spun it into something it never was. It was only every discussed as a last resort.

Aye, I agree with you on the salient points. I do think the PRL used the regions but that is my personal interpretation and as we know... it's a long and boring slog going over this old ground

Apparently full fixture list will be tomorrow, exact dates and ko times for rounds 1-11 will be announced at a later date

Notch wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Notch, the Welsh teams entering the Premiership was always talked about as option if the European cup didn't go ahead. And you are of course assuming that the PRL 'used' the Regions. Not that everyone knew it wasn't going to happen.

Many Welsh fans (although not on here) got excited by the thought of joining the Premiership and spun it into something it never was. It was only every discussed as a last resort.

Aye, I agree with you on the salient points. I do think the PRL used the regions but that is my personal interpretation and as we know... it's a long and boring slog going over this old ground

We're all entitled to twist reality to match our biased views

  

 

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: Never mind the fact that the English clubs were already showing signs of wanting to leave if changes weren't made before the Irish success kicked in (when the reigning champions were, er, English).

Nevermind indeed!  Too right and well said!  
The English clubs - that bounced up from no entries when HC first started, to four.  
Then down to no entries again in '99 (another protest about something not being right by their reckoning).  
Then miraculously up to six the following year after the no-show the previous year.  Not taking part and "wanting to leave" sure does have happy side benefits!!!

The English were right to walk out in protest again considering all the bad stuff that was going down that were virtual open plots of sedition against them.  It's fixed now.  They're not victims anymore.  They'll be happy now......  until they're not happy again.

The Pro 12 website has already changed to Guiness, even though the announcement is meant to be 11am...

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/home.php

RDW_Scotland wrote:The Pro 12 website has already changed to Guiness, even though the announcement is meant to be 11am...

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/home.php

I Like the look of that!
Never liked the pretty elementary junior-art-student looking orange and blue design gig of the Rabo based site.
This is more Dark Knight! This is Vader! This is the Stone's Paint it Black. This is Rock'n'Roll....