Guinness PRO12 Fixtures

by bedfordwelsh Thu 10 Jul 2014, 1:07 pm

Not seen this yet but here first 2 rounds of fixtures:

5/6/7 Sep Connacht Rugby v Newport Gwent Dragons Sportsground

5/6/7 Sep Glasgow Warriors v Leinster Rugby Scotstoun Stadium

5/6/7 Sep Munster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby Thomond Park

5/6/7 Sep Ospreys v Benetton Treviso Liberty Stadium

5/6/7 Sep Scarlets v Ulster Rugby Parc y Scarlets

5/6/7 Sep Zebre v Cardiff Blues Stadio XXV Aprile

12/13/14 Sep Benetton Treviso v Munster Rugby Stadio Monigo

12/13/14 Sep Cardiff Blues v Glasgow Warriors BT Sport Cardiff Arms Park

12/13/14 Sep Edinburgh Rugby v Connacht Rugby BT Murrayfield

12/13/14 Sep Leinster Rugby v Scarlets RDS Arena

12/13/14 Sep Newport Gwent Dragons v Ospreys Rodney Parade

12/13/14 Sep Ulster Rugby v Zebre Kingspan Stadium

Nive early season home derby for us agains the Os, 2 big games for the Scarlets to get their season up and running

by Kingshu Thu 10 Jul 2014, 1:15 pm

http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures_list.php

Last 4 Ulster games are
away to Connacht,
then Leinster, Munster at home and away to glasgow.

I understand that the derbies are arranged around Christmas and new year,
But 3 derbies in the last 4 games year on year really doesn't help anyone.

For comparison Leinster get
Dragons, Ulster, treviso, Edinburgh

Munster get
Edinburgh, Treviso, Ulster, Dragons

Glasgow get
Blues, Connacht, Ospreys Ulster

Ospreys get
Treviso, Blues, Glasgow Ulster

it seams the Calender does not alter much year on year, and we are stuck with the hardest run in.
Why do we always seam to have such a difficult end of season???

by bedfordwelsh Thu 10 Jul 2014, 1:20 pm

We (Dragons) start with Connacht (A) Ospreys (H) then 3 away on the bounce then 3 home on the bounce.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 10 Jul 2014, 1:24 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:We (Dragons) start with Connacht (A) Ospreys (H) then 3 away on the bounce then 3 home on the bounce.

aka; played 8, lost 8. Very Happy

by bedfordwelsh Thu 10 Jul 2014, 1:28 pm

Wow getting the banter in early Dave I see lol. Least you have an easy start with Zebre away, oh hang on what happened lasty season didn't they do the double over you Wink

by Cardiff Dave Thu 10 Jul 2014, 1:51 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wow getting the banter in early Dave I see lol. Least you have an easy start with Zebre away, oh hang on what happened lasty season didn't they do the double over you

Ouch! No need for that mun.

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 10 Jul 2014, 2:06 pm

Kingshu wrote:http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/fixtures_list.php

Last 4 Ulster games are
away to Connacht,
then Leinster, Munster at home and away to glasgow.

I understand that the derbies are arranged around Christmas and new year,
But 3 derbies in the last 4 games year on year really doesn't help anyone.

For comparison Leinster get
Dragons, Ulster, treviso, Edinburgh

Munster get
Edinburgh, Treviso, Ulster, Dragons

Glasgow get
Blues, Connacht, Ospreys Ulster

Ospreys get
Treviso, Blues, Glasgow Ulster

it seams the Calender does not alter much year on year, and we are stuck with the hardest run in.
Why do we always seam to have such a difficult end of season???

I see where you're coming from. 3 of the last 4 Leinster games are on the road so realistically they need to already be secure for a play off berth before heading into that stretch. Also, teams on the bubble for european qualification will be extra tasty in the run in so Connacht/Edinburgh/Dragons/Treviso/Zebre won't be gimme's at that point of the season.

The tv fixtures are something like up to two home games of a club exclusively on Sky during the season. I can see a lot of Leinster/Ulster/Munster away games ending up on sky this year. Those away games along with the derbies(?) to be the priority for Sky I'm guessing.

by **George Carlin** Thu 10 Jul 2014, 2:19 pm

Apart from the small matter of Leinster first, am very pleased with Glasgow's fixtures this year. Opening 10 fixtures let us build up a head of steam and we should finish strongly.

Edinburgh have a chance to win most of the first 10 before the inevitable 'falling off of the wheels' in the new year.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 10 Jul 2014, 8:17 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Wow getting the banter in early Dave I see lol. Least you have an easy start with Zebre away, oh hang on what happened lasty season didn't they do the double over you

Ouch! No need for that mun.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 10 Jul 2014, 9:55 pm

I never understand this 'easy run in' stuff, we all play each other home and away. So if you have an 'easy run in' you've already had a tough season start, or awkward festive period.

by justified sinner Thu 10 Jul 2014, 10:09 pm

For anyone who is interested, when you have a certain number of things to fit into a schedule and you predetermine some of those things a thing called degrees of freedom kicks in. That is the rest of the fixtures must be fitted in to account for those that are predetermined. In this case that means certain derby games are played at times when the respective RU reckon they can maximize crowds and therefore revenue, hence the rest of the fixture list seething unfair to many.

That's the way it is, either have an open draw and give up on good derby fixtures, or keep the draw as is.

by **Notch** Thu 10 Jul 2014, 10:13 pm

Well, the more internationals a team has the less you want them at the end. The international calendar breaks up their momentum with their clubs with most of their energy focused on European Cup and test matches until the Six Nations is over and then they can really focus on the run-in.

I'm pretty upset with Ulsters run-in, but part of the reason I'm so happy we have Connacht this Christmas is an IRFU one week training camp around that time of year means we're without internationals for one of our games; and every year we had Munster and Leinster. So you'd always have to rest guys for one or other game. Now we can rest some guys against Connacht and still have a reasonable chance of winning.

Again... we're going to lose to Connacht now I've said all that!!

by thebandwagonsociety Fri 11 Jul 2014, 10:07 am

Will Joe have the training camp at that time if there are essentially three weekends of inter-pro matches going on. Surely he would learn more watching his top players playing for both sides in those games that he would from having them in Carton House.

by Kingshu Fri 11 Jul 2014, 12:35 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I never understand this 'easy run in' stuff, we all play each other home and away. So if you have an 'easy run in' you've already had a tough season start, or awkward festive period.

Its because its the part of the season Fergusion refered to as squeaky bum time.

its because its drawing to a close that there is more pressure on teams, if you start the season with a bad loss there is a feeling there is pleanty of time to make up for it, and climd up the table as others will also drop points. If you drop expected points in the run in, that could be season ending.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:12 am

When are the kick off times out?

Aviva Premiership's were out for the whole season - 2 weeks ago.

by GoodinTightSpaces Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:31 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:When are the kick off times out?

Aviva Premiership's were out for the whole season - 2 weeks ago.

back again to have a pop at the pro 12 i see

by **Notch** Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:31 am

Before the end of July.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:39 am

Is there any news regarding the BBC Wales / S4C coverage? As lack of certainty over who is actually broadcasting the games can definitely impact on the scheduling.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:41 am

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:When are the kick off times out?

Aviva Premiership's were out for the whole season - 2 weeks ago.

back again to have a pop at the pro 12 i see

When they sort out this shambles of a league I'll stop moaning.

Easy.

by justified sinner Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:58 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:When are the kick off times out?

Aviva Premiership's were out for the whole season - 2 weeks ago.

back again to have a pop at the pro 12 i see

When they sort out this shambles of a league I'll stop moaning.

Easy.

I don't see how they can sort it out until the Welsh get their house in order, the ongoing argument between RRW and WRU means that none of the other league participants have certainty. Not to mention any Welsh TV deal, how can the fixtures be finalised until the broadcasters preferences are known?

In short once the Welsh sort themselves out everything else will fall into place, until then who knows?

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:27 am

justified sinner wrote:

I don't see how they can sort it out until the Welsh get their house in order, the ongoing argument between RRW and WRU means that none of the other league participants have certainty. Not to mention any Welsh TV deal, how can the fixtures be finalised until the broadcasters preferences are known?

In short once the Welsh sort themselves out everything else will fall into place, until then who knows?

Why do the broadcasters not have preference NOW? They know the weekends. Sky will know what fixtures they want. BBC and S4C will know what ones they want.

Just announce them. If there are repercussions because of outside influences then that bridge will have to be crossed.

by justified sinner Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:33 am

The last I heard there wasn't a new Welsh TV deal in place, which makes dealing with the BBC and S4C a bit tricky. No?

I'll say it again, once the Welsh sort themselves out everything else will fall into place.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:34 am

justified sinner wrote:

I'll say it again, once the Welsh sort themselves out everything else will fall into place.

Well that's nice to know that this year will be different, and all kick off times for the whole season will be announced son.

by GoodinTightSpaces Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:38 am

do you need the fixture lists to book your holidays or something,

Look at the premiership in soccer ball, they dont release the full years kick off times. whats your opinion on that?

by Guest Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:41 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:When are the kick off times out?

Aviva Premiership's were out for the whole season - 2 weeks ago.

back again to have a pop at the pro 12 i see

When they sort out this shambles of a league I'll stop moaning.

Easy.

If we only had the one broadcaster paying through the Unions it would likely be done, and dusted. We don't though. We have four Unions, one RRW, and multiple broadcasters, which leaves us waiting for the weakest link, whoever that may be, to sort out fixture times, before all fixtures can be announced.
I wouldn't say it is a shambles though. End of July is plenty of time.
There is a shambles in NH rugby, and it isn't the Pro12.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:43 am

Munchkin wrote:
If we only had the one broadcaster paying through the Unions it would likely be done, and dusted.

egg sactly.

Which is why the league is doomed to be crap for evermore. It's a lame duck in the rugby world. It's declining into embarrassment while other leagues go from strength to strength leaving it behind.

by Guest Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:59 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
If we only had the one broadcaster paying through the Unions it would likely be done, and dusted.

egg sactly.

Which is why the league is doomed to be crap for evermore. It's a lame duck in the rugby world. It's declining into embarrassment while other leagues go from strength to strength leaving it behind.

What crap would that be? and in what sense declining? In a new season when we have both Guinness, and SKY, come on board, as well as being restructured with a slightly more competitive edge, you still claim it's in decline?

by justified sinner Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:03 pm

So Super Rugby with multiple broadcasters must also be 'crap' then using your logic.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:07 pm

Munchkin wrote:

What crap would that be?

I really have to list the reasons again? kick off times. kick off times not being sorted until 3 weeks before games. Ridiculously bad officiating. Too many broadcasters with too many needs. Extremely poor quality of teams beyond the top 3 or 4. 3 or 4 Thursday fixtures.

and in what sense declining? In a new season when we have both Guinness, and SKY, come on board, as well as being restructured with a slightly more competitive edge, you still claim it's in decline?

It's declining because it's falling behind the other 2 big leagues by more every season.

What's the new Guinness deal worth?

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:09 pm

justified sinner wrote:So Super Rugby with multiple broadcasters must also be 'crap' then using your logic.

I personally don't like super rugby much, but they broadcast in the same language which helps viewers everywhere. They also don't seem to make a hash of the fixtures, allowing fans plenty of notice of kick off times. They also have a few good referees. They also have more than 4 good teams.

by GoodinTightSpaces Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:17 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
justified sinner wrote:So Super Rugby with multiple broadcasters must also be 'crap' then using your logic.

I personally don't like super rugby much, but they broadcast in the same language which helps viewers everywhere. They also don't seem to make a hash of the fixtures, allowing fans plenty of notice of kick off times. They also have a few good referees. They also have more than 4 good teams.

How much time do you actually need to know a kick off time when you know the dates/

by Guest Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:20 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

What crap would that be?
I really have to list the reasons again? kick off times. kick off times not being sorted until 3 weeks before games. Ridiculously bad officiating. Too many broadcasters with too many needs. Extremely poor quality of teams beyond the top 3 or 4. 3 or 4 Thursday fixtures.

and in what sense declining? In a new season when we have both Guinness, and SKY, come on board, as well as being restructured with a slightly more competitive edge, you still claim it's in decline?

It's declining because it's falling behind the other 2 big leagues by more every season.

What's the new Guinness deal worth?

Don't blame Pro12 on your kick off times. That's between WRU/RRW and your broadcasters. Sort it out.

I would agree with you to a certain extent on officiating. Personally, I think the use of TMO's has been a failure, although that isn't something unique to the Pro12. I think it has been a failure wherever it has been used. Not that they always get it wrong, but enough to demonstrate that it needs a rethink. I think it should be scrapped.

Extremely poor quality of teams beyond the top 3 or 4.... So, other than Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Glasgow, you think the rest are extremely poor quality? The same poor quality teams that some tin foil hat wearers think should be playing in the AP. From your previous comments I formed the impression that you thought the AP superior to the Pro12, but then maybe you think the four Regions are not fit for Pro12, AP or T14?

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:29 pm

Munchkin wrote:

Don't blame Pro12 on your kick off times. That's between WRU/RRW and your broadcasters. Sort it out.

Well exactly. It's a league in which we have to do whatever BBC and WRU tell us to do. Even if that means a Cardiff v Leinster fixture on a Thursday. Awful

Extremely poor quality of teams beyond the top 3 or 4.... So, other than Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Glasgow, you think the rest are extremely poor quality?

Yup

The same poor quality teams that some tin foil hat wearers think should be playing in the AP. From your previous comments I formed the impression that you thought the AP superior to the Pro12, but then maybe you think the four Regions are not fit for Pro12, AP or T14?

I'd happily see the 4 regions go in the English rugby championship. If they're good enough to get promoted to the Aviva then they will. It won't happen though, we're stuck in this monstrosity.

The pro12 isn't even half as good as the aviva or top14

by **profitius** Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:36 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

What crap would that be?
I really have to list the reasons again? kick off times. kick off times not being sorted until 3 weeks before games. Ridiculously bad officiating. Too many broadcasters with too many needs. Extremely poor quality of teams beyond the top 3 or 4. 3 or 4 Thursday fixtures.

and in what sense declining? In a new season when we have both Guinness, and SKY, come on board, as well as being restructured with a slightly more competitive edge, you still claim it's in decline?

It's declining because it's falling behind the other 2 big leagues by more every season.

What's the new Guinness deal worth?

Falling behind? Those leagues have many years of a head start. The pro 12 has continued to grow since it came to being. It has produced winners of the heineken cup and help countries win the 6 nations. Just signed a new sponsorship deal and TV deal so not doing too badly. The situation in Wales has held the league back a bit but the likes of Glasgow, Ulster and Connacht have improved greatly in the past few years.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:39 pm

profitius wrote:

Falling behind? Those leagues have many years of a head start. The pro 12 has continued to grow since it came to being. It has produced winners of the heineken cup and help countries win the 6 nations. Just signed a new sponsorship deal and TV deal so not doing too badly. The situation in Wales has held the league back a bit but the likes of Glasgow, Ulster and Connacht have improved greatly in the past few years.

What's this new Guinness deal worth then?

by LeinsterFan4life Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:43 pm

There was only 1 thursday league game last season and that was because it had to be rescheduled to a HC weekend...

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:47 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:There was only 1 thursday league game last season and that was because it had to be rescheduled to a HC weekend...

I don't know where you were last season. On a long holiday perhaps?

There were 6 Thursday fixtures in the league last season. 3 of those can be discounted because they were Xmas fixtures. The other 3 are continuously given excuses for by the Pro12 apologists.

by Guest Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:48 pm

If you really think the four Regions are extremely poor quality, then maybe you should be grateful that they get to participate in a league where they at least get challenged by top European sides, as well as getting a chance to qualify for the top European competition, with at least one Region certain to do so. How much money would the Regions generate in the championship? Would they get more or less? As English clubs, would they be more prominent than they are at present, or would they eventually fade into obscurity?
Not that the championship would want them. I doubt they would be very happy at the prospect. As I said, tin foil hat thinking. It isn't going to happen anytime soon.
Your other option is simply to scrap the Regions, and go back to semi pro premiership in Wales. A better option than Pro12?
As for how much Guinness pay for sponsorship? I don't know, but we are very fortunate we have them on board at all when considering the toxic situation within Wales, and how that impacts Pro12.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:53 pm

Munchkin wrote:If you really think the four Regions are extremely poor quality, then maybe you should be grateful that they get to participate in a league where they at least get challenged by top European sides, as well as getting a chance to qualify for the top European competition, with at least one Region certain to do so. How much money would the Regions generate in the championship? Would they get more or less? As English clubs, would they be more prominent than they are at present, or would they eventually fade into obscurity?
Not that the championship would want them. I doubt they would be very happy at the prospect. As I said, tin foil hat thinking. It isn't going to happen anytime soon.

I think you're probably right sadly.

As for how much Guinness pay for sponsorship? I don't know, but we are very fortunate we have them on board at all when considering the toxic situation within Wales, and how that impacts Pro12.

Why are we fortunate to have them on board if you don't know what they're bringing?

by **profitius** Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:54 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
profitius wrote:

Falling behind? Those leagues have many years of a head start. The pro 12 has continued to grow since it came to being. It has produced winners of the heineken cup and help countries win the 6 nations. Just signed a new sponsorship deal and TV deal so not doing too badly. The situation in Wales has held the league back a bit but the likes of Glasgow, Ulster and Connacht have improved greatly in the past few years.

What's this new Guinness deal worth then?

Not too much I'd say. Between €2m and €2.5m I heard.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:55 pm

profitius wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
profitius wrote:

Falling behind? Those leagues have many years of a head start. The pro 12 has continued to grow since it came to being. It has produced winners of the heineken cup and help countries win the 6 nations. Just signed a new sponsorship deal and TV deal so not doing too badly. The situation in Wales has held the league back a bit but the likes of Glasgow, Ulster and Connacht have improved greatly in the past few years.

What's this new Guinness deal worth then?

Not too much I'd say. Between €2m and €2.5m I heard.

Are you joking?

by Guest Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:04 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:If you really think the four Regions are extremely poor quality, then maybe you should be grateful that they get to participate in a league where they at least get challenged by top European sides, as well as getting a chance to qualify for the top European competition, with at least one Region certain to do so. How much money would the Regions generate in the championship? Would they get more or less? As English clubs, would they be more prominent than they are at present, or would they eventually fade into obscurity?
Not that the championship would want them. I doubt they would be very happy at the prospect. As I said, tin foil hat thinking. It isn't going to happen anytime soon.

I think you're probably right sadly.

As for how much Guinness pay for sponsorship? I don't know, but we are very fortunate we have them on board at all when considering the toxic situation within Wales, and how that impacts Pro12.

Why are we fortunate to have them on board if you don't know what they're bringing?

Because they're a big name with a great association with rugby union, and so by name alone add prestige to the Pro12. They are also coming in at a time when the Regions continued presence in Pro12 is less than certain, and taking a chance that the toxic situation in Wales doesn't also infect the Pro12, and in doing so damage the reputation of a league they have given their name to.

The WRU/RRW infighting alone may have devalued the worth of sponsorship, however, I would think Guinness have paid more than Turkish Airlines were prepared to pay.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:09 pm

£1.8m

That has got to be a joke.

by Guest Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:14 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:£1.8m

That has got to be a joke.

Have you a link?

edit: sorry, didn't see the above comments....

by St John The Enforcer Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:12 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:£1.8m

That has got to be a joke.

Totally agree mate. Surprised they are paying anything for a league that is being made unstable by the feud in Welsh Rugby

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:14 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:£1.8m

That has got to be a joke.
Totally agree mate. Surprised they are paying anything for a league that is being made unstable by the feud in Welsh Rugby

Good point.

They should disband it and let the pro sides go where they want / are accepted.

by St John The Enforcer Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:19 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
St John The Enforcer wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:£1.8m

That has got to be a joke.
Totally agree mate. Surprised they are paying anything for a league that is being made unstable by the feud in Welsh Rugby

Good point.

They should disband it and let the pro sides go where they want / are accepted.

Sounds good. Who wants to be in a relationship with an unwilling partner.

by Chunky Norwich Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:20 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:

Sounds good. Who wants to be in a relationship with an unwilling partner.

Agreed. If only it were that simple. Damned Celtic accord.

by St John The Enforcer Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:27 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
St John The Enforcer wrote:

Sounds good. Who wants to be in a relationship with an unwilling partner.

Agreed. If only it were that simple. Damned Celtic accord.

Your union has the agreement with the league though. If you could sort them out you could go off on your merry way. At this stage I think everyone inside and outside Wales wish it could get sorted.

Personally I don't give a feck which side gets their way as long as something gets sorted,

by **Notch** Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:28 pm

profitius wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
profitius wrote:

Falling behind? Those leagues have many years of a head start. The pro 12 has continued to grow since it came to being. It has produced winners of the heineken cup and help countries win the 6 nations. Just signed a new sponsorship deal and TV deal so not doing too badly. The situation in Wales has held the league back a bit but the likes of Glasgow, Ulster and Connacht have improved greatly in the past few years.

What's this new Guinness deal worth then?

Not too much I'd say. Between €2m and €2.5m I heard.

We're lucky to get that with the ongoing farce of the regions and the WRU undermining the league, lets be honest.

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