Is anyone else a little concerned about Benetton Rugby Treviso?

Two seasons ago Benetton Rugby Treviso, finished the league in 7th play, in H-cup had two close games against Tigers, and beat the Ospreys, put in a respectable performance in a very tough pool.

The future looked bright for them and we hoped they would push on the following year and maybe challange for the playoffs, and be a great boost for rugby in Italy.

last year, they finished the league in 11th place, one point aboze Zebre, in a tough Hcup pool again, they didn't look close to winning a game, they didn't look the same team as the season before and looked like Zebre would overtake them.


We were hoping that this was a blip and they would recover to being a good midtable team this season, but for the coming season they have lost

Tobias Botes to Eastern Province Kings
Alberto De Marchi to Sale Sharks
Lorenzo Cittadini to London Wasps
Luke McLean to Sale Sharks
Brendan Williams retired
Manoa Vosawai to Cardiff Blues
Christian Loamanu to Leicester Tigers
Leonardo Ghiraldini to Leicester Tigers
Robert Barbieri to Leicester Tigers
Michele Rizzo to Leicester Tigers
Alberto Di Bernardo to Lille MR
Valerio Bernabò to Zebre
Matt Berquist to Hawke's Bay
Enrico Ceccato to Rovigo Delta
Pedro Di Santo to Uru Curè
Marco Filippucci to Mogliano
Fabio Semenzato to Mogliano
Ignacio Fernandez Rouyet to Mogliano

Alot of those were very important players and the replacements do not seam to be of the same quality.


This leads me to think that instead of pushing for a good mid-table position Treviso will be struggling to stay off the bottom of the table.

Anyone else worried about the regression for Treviso when the rest of the league seam to be improving?

Couple of things, and I'm open to correction here.
Treviso is privately owned (not controlled by the Union).
They were disputing pulling out from the Union in a bid to get more money and if that threat had to be enforced they couldn't have afforded the players noted above.
The Union also wants them to increase spending on facilities/etc. but again the owners don't want to commit financially without having secured commitment from the Union that Treviso will be supported in the medium to long term.
The threats over the pro12 make up and european competition also meant there was a serious risk that if they sat out a year they could run up serious debt paying the above players to compete in the national club competition.

Treviso have probably been put back about 2 seasons through the cut backs they decided to take but in the long term they have made some very tough decisions that ensure that would have survived as a club should any of the bad things (no europe comp, exit of pro12, reduced union funding) crystalised for the coming season.

Again, I'm open to correction on this.

How are they losing so many players? Shouldn't they have a lot more money at theur disposal now that they don't have to pay to play in the league?

I really hope they don't go bust. They were building up a decent fan base and it wasn't long ago they had a higher average attendance than Glasgow.

Players in :

Argentina Romulo Acosta from Italy Petrarca Padova
Australia Albert Anae from Australia Reds
New Zealand Leo Auva'a from Ireland Leinster
Italy Enrico Bacchin from Italy Mogliano
Italy Marco Barbini from Italy Mogliano
Italy Alberto Lucchese from Italy Mogliano
Argentina Bruno Mercanti from Italy Petrarca Padova
Argentina Josè Francisco Novak from Italy Petrarca Padova
Italy Simone Ragusi from Italy Rovigo Delta
Italy Matteo Zanusso from Italy Amatori San Donà
New Zealand Sam Christie from New Zealand Waikato
New Zealand Matt Luamanu from Japan Kyuden Voltex
England Joe Carlisle from England London Wasps
England Rupert Harden from England Gloucester
Argentina Tomas Vallejos Cinalli from Japan West Red Sparks
Fiji Henry Seniloli from Fiji Tailevu Knights
South Africa Meyer Swanepoel from Italy Mogliano
Italy Davide Giazzon from Italy Zebre
New Zealand Jayden Hayward from Australia Western Force
Australia Salesi Manu from Australia Western Force
Italy Ruggero Trevisan from Italy Zebre

Last year showed that with all their "key" players they were terrible so maybe a big change is just what they needed, they kept some very important players like Zanni and Minto (subject to medical). They cleared some of the deadwood they had in the front row too.
If anything we should expect them to be better during the AI and 6N.

Really hard to know how they'll do, with such a massive turnover, but I'm going to say... 11th in the Pro12, 4th in their European pool. Very sad that they have made negative progress after such early promise. Hope this season is the start of the recovery.

Zebre, of course, will sense a massive opportunity to take that Italian qualifying spot for Europe. They have a real opportunity there.

It'll be extremely interesting for Italian rugby fans and us neutrals to track that battle between Treviso and Zebre through the season.

I think that losing

Tobias Botes
Alberto De Marchi
Lorenzo Cittadini
Luke McLean
Brendan Williams
Christian Loamanu
Leonardo Ghiraldini
Robert Barbieri
Michele Rizzo
Matt Berquist

are big losses all are experienced quality players (I liked seeing Robert Barbieri)

but maybe a clear out was needed.

as Leinsterfanforlife said, I hoped that they would be getting more FIR funding as they don't pay to be in the League any longer freeing up money for thier teams making them stronger.

Maybe its time to turn our attention to Zebre as the improving Italian team? Is this the year they move off the bottom of the table?

As Notch says Zebre will fancy overtaking Treviso this year, think Treviso will struggle this year but unfortunally it appears both Italian teams will be bottom of the table again.

Maybe they didn't give a fig about the Pro 12 anyway? What reward is there for winning it coz I don't know.

All these clubs nicking there players should be ashamed.

Cardiff Dave wrote:Maybe they didn't give a fig about the Pro 12 anyway? What reward is there for winning it coz I don't know.

Ignoring any Champions prize, cash, I don't know how much that is. Two full houses at the end of the season and seeding in Europe nothing I can see apart from the kudos.

Still you're a Cardiff fan so none of the above apply, or are likely to.

Back on topic I think Treviso will finish last this year, unless Edinburgh implode which might happen. Zebre will be around the 9 to 7 bracket, they improved dramatically last year and can continue the upward curve this year.

justified sinner wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:Maybe they didn't give a fig about the Pro 12 anyway? What reward is there for winning it coz I don't know.

Ignoring any Champions prize, cash, I don't know how much that is. Two full houses at the end of the season and seeding in Europe nothing I can see apart from the kudos.

Still you're a Cardiff fan so none of the above apply, or are likely to.

Not sure what the cash prize is, but good sleuthing, working out i'm a Cardiff fan. My outrageous accent must have given me away I guess.
Fact is though my team's main objective always seemed to be HEC qualification.

Heres a list of the pro 12 transfers so far (looks fairly up to date but I'm not 100% sure).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2014%E2%80%9315_Pro12_transfers


Looking at that you'll notice that 14 foreigners have signed for next season while 3 foreigners have left. Thats 11 more foreign players than last season.


The Italian union must have relaxed their rules a bit and to be honest I think they're right. The Italian sides should concentrate on getting competitive firstly and then when they have enough talent they can start tightening the foreigner rules.


Zebre on the other hand have not lost much.


Looking at that list Connacht and Dragons look like they've recruited well and strengthened their squads well. Most of the other teams are either slightly weaker or slightly stronger in terms of personnel.

A number are Argentine and so could well hold dual nationality ala Castrogiovanni.

Treviso may have felt that they have been over reliant on ageing internationals who are on fairly big cash. By freeing up budget from weakening their first team they might be building a much stronger squad. That would be more use long term for club and country. At some point Treviso and Italy were going to have to stop relying on the same internationals that have made up their squad for the last five or six years.

Welly wrote:All these clubs nicking there players should be ashamed.

Just how drunk were you when you posted this?

Just curious how come it is a case of feeling sorry for poor Treviso? Surely they are being run by evil money men, and are trying to milk their union for more money. They threatened to pull out as part of throwing toys out of the pram. Oh and they are taking on so many non-qualified players   

Jimpy wrote:

Welly wrote:All these clubs nicking there players should be ashamed.

Just how drunk were you when you posted this?

Not drunk maybe tipsy, well I cant really remember but it was a very good post, Leicester were merely helping Treviso finically by taking some of the bigger earners away from them.

Others were just being greedy.

Welly wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Welly wrote:All these clubs nicking there players should be ashamed.

Just how drunk were you when you posted this?

Not drunk maybe tipsy, well I cant really remember but it was a very good post, Leicester were merely helping Treviso finically by taking some of the bigger earners away from them.

Others were just being greedy.

  

VinceWLB wrote:Players in :

   Argentina Romulo Acosta from Italy Petrarca Padova
   Australia Albert Anae from Australia Reds
   New Zealand Leo Auva'a from Ireland Leinster
   Italy Enrico Bacchin from Italy Mogliano
   Italy Marco Barbini from Italy Mogliano
   Italy Alberto Lucchese from Italy Mogliano
   Argentina Bruno Mercanti from Italy Petrarca Padova
   Argentina Josè Francisco Novak from Italy Petrarca Padova
   Italy Simone Ragusi from Italy Rovigo Delta
   Italy Matteo Zanusso from Italy Amatori San Donà
   New Zealand Sam Christie from New Zealand Waikato
   New Zealand Matt Luamanu from Japan Kyuden Voltex
   England Joe Carlisle from England London Wasps
   England Rupert Harden from England Gloucester
   Argentina Tomas Vallejos Cinalli from Japan West Red Sparks
   Fiji Henry Seniloli from Fiji Tailevu Knights
   South Africa Meyer Swanepoel from Italy Mogliano
   Italy Davide Giazzon from Italy Zebre
   New Zealand Jayden Hayward from Australia Western Force
   Australia Salesi Manu from Australia Western Force
   Italy Ruggero Trevisan from Italy Zebre

Last year showed that with all their "key" players they were terrible so maybe a big change is just what they needed, they kept some very important players like Zanni and Minto (subject to medical). They cleared some of the deadwood they had in the front row too.
If anything we should expect them to be better during the AI and 6N.

I would echo Vince's comments on them to be honest. Looking at those signings they really have brought some bulky monsters in. Some lack experience but in terms of size of pack they will be putting out next year they will be substantially heavier. Granted that has it's own drawbacks but if they develop a solid set piece game and learn to keep possession they could break teams down that way for starters. Fitness in preseason will no doubt have a impact on how they go.

I certainly don't think they will end up bottom of the table that's for sure. Who knows - couple of early win and it could set them up for a good season although I would rule out a top 4 place at this stage, purely based on the sheer strength of some of the sides in the Pro 12.

Is the coaching team of Marius Goosen and Mauro Serafin (now juggling the role of ass't coach with the post of team manager after Franco Smith's departure) good enough?

Neither have had what could be described as a distinguished career in top flight rugby; not that that guarantees the making of a good coach.

Treviso have signed some useful players, but I feel they will not get anywhere near the best out of them until their coaching team can be strengthened and deepened.

In their current financial situation that's unlikely to happen.

They only beat Mogliano 12-0 yesterday for their first pre season game.

Not like they can be relegated from the Marmite.

Actually they can if the FIR thinks they aren't competitive enough they can easily replace them with Calvisano or Mogliano for instance.

Zebre may well finish above Treviso in the Pro12, given their improvement last year.

I do wonder if the FIR are alarmed at Italy's poor season and have advised players to go to teams more likely to challenge in Europe and instil some confidence in them. There's certainly been a bit of an exodus.

Think it's more a clearing out of the old guard to bring the young guys through. Which with, let's face it, the more experienced Italian players going backward on the international stage is probably a wise move. They might dip for a season or two, but should then start to move forward with the next generation.