6 nations 2015 and Euro Nations Cup 2014 - 2016

Bit slow at work, looking at Rugby in Europe.

Its interesting to see how many teams now play rugby and take part in the Euro leagues.

6N
England
France
Ireland
Italy
Scotland
Wales

Euro Nations
1A
Germany
Georgia
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Spain

1B
Belgium
Moldova
Netherlands
Poland
Sweden
Ukraine

2A
Croatia
Czech Republic
Israel
Malta
Switzerland

2B
Andorra
Cyprus
Latvia
Hungary
Lithuania

2C
Austria
Denmark
Luxembourg
Serbia
Slovenia

2D
Bosnia & Herz..
Bulgaria
Finland
Norway
Turkey

3A
Azerbaijan
Greece
Slovakia

I thought last year was Belgium's first year in 1A. Is that up to date or did I miss a year and they got relegated already?

Cyprus will be looking to extend their unbeaten run (unbeaten since Nov '08) of 23.

This is the newest list Hammer...so unless they were relegated from the last set. 2012 - 2014
EDIT - Yeah looks like they went down and Germany have come up to the top replacing them.

Lost to Georgia and Romania (not heavily mind) and drew with Spain

Yeah Cyprus seem to be making quite a mark...they the team on Youtube playing crazy attacking rugby against Bulgaria arent they....looking very impressive.

It is a pity that the top league in the Euro Nations doesn't get a bit more air time. I am not sure if it would work or if the so called 'established' teams would want it to but but I have always thought that maybe it would be a good idea to put a game on as a curtain raiser to each of the main 6 Nations games.

That would definately be an idea Bedford.

Im on another forum related to the Euro nations and tier two teams...and many of their fans want more now. More games with tier 1 sides etc.

GF,

Am not sure how it would or could work what with fans etc as most 6 Nations games are sold out and not sure how many fans these games attract but for me its at least worth exploring the possibility and anything that can be done to raise profile of these games.

Yeah there are issues...plus do the top tier 1 sides want a game of rugby breaking up the pitch just before they go out.

How do you raise the profile then? How do we increase the games between the teams...such as Romania, Georgia and Russia?

I suggested 'A' team games on the other forum and it was shot down in flames by the georgians and Romanians saying they want full tests or nothing..no A team / Development games...and they would rather play Fiji, Tonga etc.

Of course i had my say about that   

I'd watch European second tier rugby if I could!


Frankly most people I've introduced to playing or watching rugby have enjoyed it, and I know lots of foreign students from school and Uni who love rugby. Let's hope it keeps growing. To do that, BT's approach and the Rio 7s are great but we really need a smaller nation RWC host, and Japan frankly looks like the best option

The worldwide profile of rugby has been the centre of attention for a good few years now and everyone is more than keen to see the game expand. If the TV channel gods could get their heads together and widely televise the second tier rugby it would go a heck of a long way to doing what everyone has been trying so long to do.

By Tv gods I mean BT

Some interesting games listed for the Nov Internationals...
2 in particular stand out for me.

Nov 1 - Japan v Maori (Kobe)
Nov 1 - USA v NZ (Chicago)
Nov 8 - France v Fiji (Marseilles)
Nov 8 - Georgia v Tonga (Georgia TBA)
Nov 8 - Italy v Samoa (Rome)
Nov 8 - Canada v Namibia (Europe TBA)
Nov 8 - Romania v USA (Bucharest)
Nov 8 - Japan v Maori (Tokyo)
Nov 14 - Samoa v Canada (Vannes)
Nov 15 - Wales v Fiji (Cardiff)
Nov 15 - Tonga v USA (Europe TBA)
Nov 15 - Romania v Japan (Bucharest)
Nov 16 - Ireland v Georgia (Dublin)
Nov 21 - Fiji v USA (Vannes)
Nov 22 - England v Samoa (London)
Nov 22 - Scotland v Tonga (Edinburgh)
Nov 22 - Romania v Canada (Bucharest)
Nov 23 - Georgia v Japan (Georgia TBA)

Scotland vs Tonga - not again!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some interesting games listed for the Nov Internationals...
2 in particular stand out for me.

Nov 1 - Japan v Maori (Kobe)
Nov 1 - USA v NZ (Chicago)
Nov 8 - France v Fiji (Marseilles)
Nov 8 - Georgia v Tonga (Georgia TBA)
Nov 8 - Italy v Samoa (Rome)
Nov 8 - Canada v Namibia (Europe TBA)
Nov 8 - Romania v USA (Bucharest)
Nov 8 - Japan v Maori (Tokyo)
Nov 14 - Samoa v Canada (Vannes)
Nov 15 - Wales v Fiji (Cardiff)
Nov 15 - Tonga v USA (Europe TBA)
Nov 15 - Romania v Japan (Bucharest)
Nov 16 - Ireland v Georgia (Dublin)
Nov 21 - Fiji v USA (Vannes)
Nov 22 - England v Samoa (London)
Nov 22 - Scotland v Tonga (Edinburgh)
Nov 22 - Romania v Canada (Bucharest)
Nov 23 - Georgia v Japan (Georgia TBA)

Yes, the reigning Six Nations champions versus the reigning European Nations Cup champions in a full test match, not a second string development game. It'll be a proper test with something close to Irelands first choice XV out. And I've got a ticket! Looking forward to that  

Notch wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some interesting games listed for the Nov Internationals...
2 in particular stand out for me.

Nov 1 - Japan v Maori (Kobe)
Nov 1 - USA v NZ (Chicago)
Nov 8 - France v Fiji (Marseilles)
Nov 8 - Georgia v Tonga (Georgia TBA)
Nov 8 - Italy v Samoa (Rome)
Nov 8 - Canada v Namibia (Europe TBA)
Nov 8 - Romania v USA (Bucharest)
Nov 8 - Japan v Maori (Tokyo)
Nov 14 - Samoa v Canada (Vannes)
Nov 15 - Wales v Fiji (Cardiff)
Nov 15 - Tonga v USA (Europe TBA)
Nov 15 - Romania v Japan (Bucharest)
Nov 16 - Ireland v Georgia (Dublin)
Nov 21 - Fiji v USA (Vannes)
Nov 22 - England v Samoa (London)
Nov 22 - Scotland v Tonga (Edinburgh)
Nov 22 - Romania v Canada (Bucharest)
Nov 23 - Georgia v Japan (Georgia TBA)

Yes, the reigning Six Nations champions versus the reigning European Nations Cup champions in a full test match, not a second string development game. It'll be a proper test with something close to Irelands first choice XV out. And I've got a ticket! Looking forward to that  

Obviously the relative Unions want the big games for the money/marketing side of it but its a pity that the big Unions also cant be made or influenced to play the developing teams more in meaningful games.

Just with a financial type hat on, how much would it cost to get say Romania to play you in the Autumn? Surely not a vast amount. Reduce ticket prices dramatically to get fans into the ground, field 75%-25% split of stars and future stars (or grafters who deserve a cap), and you'll still end up making a profit. For Wales with the annual 4th AI, that would be a safer option than a big name side but missing our overseas players.

Or the other option is playing a euronations side the week before the 6Ns use it as a semi trial game, cheap tickets etc still.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Notch wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some interesting games listed for the Nov Internationals...
2 in particular stand out for me.

Nov 1 - Japan v Maori (Kobe)
Nov 1 - USA v NZ (Chicago)
Nov 8 - France v Fiji (Marseilles)
Nov 8 - Georgia v Tonga (Georgia TBA)
Nov 8 - Italy v Samoa (Rome)
Nov 8 - Canada v Namibia (Europe TBA)
Nov 8 - Romania v USA (Bucharest)
Nov 8 - Japan v Maori (Tokyo)
Nov 14 - Samoa v Canada (Vannes)
Nov 15 - Wales v Fiji (Cardiff)
Nov 15 - Tonga v USA (Europe TBA)
Nov 15 - Romania v Japan (Bucharest)
Nov 16 - Ireland v Georgia (Dublin)
Nov 21 - Fiji v USA (Vannes)
Nov 22 - England v Samoa (London)
Nov 22 - Scotland v Tonga (Edinburgh)
Nov 22 - Romania v Canada (Bucharest)
Nov 23 - Georgia v Japan (Georgia TBA)

Yes, the reigning Six Nations champions versus the reigning European Nations Cup champions in a full test match, not a second string development game. It'll be a proper test with something close to Irelands first choice XV out. And I've got a ticket! Looking forward to that  

Obviously the relative Unions want the big games for the money/marketing side of it but its a pity that the big Unions also cant be made or influenced to play the developing teams more in meaningful games.

We do do it, pretty much every year we do it. We always play 2 games against teams in the Rugby Championship and one team against a side that isn't in the two elite competitions.

2014- Georgia
2013- Samoa
2012- Fiji
2011- no Autumn Internationals due to the RWC
2010- Samoa
2009- Fiji
2008- Canada

I would like to see more of these games coming against teams like Georgia and Romania and I would like to see the IRB move to make it a requirement that every team plays at least one game against a side in their Hemisphere each season- maybe two if it can be fit in.

I wish we played more of those sides

Notch wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Notch wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Some interesting games listed for the Nov Internationals...
2 in particular stand out for me.

Nov 1 - Japan v Maori (Kobe)
Nov 1 - USA v NZ (Chicago)
Nov 8 - France v Fiji (Marseilles)
Nov 8 - Georgia v Tonga (Georgia TBA)
Nov 8 - Italy v Samoa (Rome)
Nov 8 - Canada v Namibia (Europe TBA)
Nov 8 - Romania v USA (Bucharest)
Nov 8 - Japan v Maori (Tokyo)
Nov 14 - Samoa v Canada (Vannes)
Nov 15 - Wales v Fiji (Cardiff)
Nov 15 - Tonga v USA (Europe TBA)
Nov 15 - Romania v Japan (Bucharest)
Nov 16 - Ireland v Georgia (Dublin)
Nov 21 - Fiji v USA (Vannes)
Nov 22 - England v Samoa (London)
Nov 22 - Scotland v Tonga (Edinburgh)
Nov 22 - Romania v Canada (Bucharest)
Nov 23 - Georgia v Japan (Georgia TBA)

Yes, the reigning Six Nations champions versus the reigning European Nations Cup champions in a full test match, not a second string development game. It'll be a proper test with something close to Irelands first choice XV out. And I've got a ticket! Looking forward to that  

Obviously the relative Unions want the big games for the money/marketing side of it but its a pity that the big Unions also cant be made or influenced to play the developing teams more in meaningful games.

We do do it, pretty much every year we do it. We always play 2 games against teams in the Rugby Championship and one team against a side that isn't in the two elite competitions.

2014- Georgia
2013- Samoa
2012- Fiji
2011- no Autumn Internationals due to the RWC
2010- Samoa
2009- Fiji
2008- Canada

I would like to see more of these games coming against teams like Georgia and Romania and I would like to see the IRB move to make it a requirement that every team plays at least one game against a side in their Hemisphere each season- maybe two if it can be fit in.

Notch,

You're right most do it against the likes of Fiji, Samoa, Argentina and even Tonga and because of the physicality of some of those games they are still a relatively big draw but not many play the likes of Georgia or Romania.

I agree the IRB should maybe mandate they are played.

I think Georgia would be far more intense up front than the likes of Fiji or Tonga.

Half their forwards play in the French leagues and they will be big, disciplined and physical...likewise the Romanians.

Its their backs that probably let them down abit...but hell so does Englands.....

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think Georgia would be far more intense up front than the likes of Fiji or Tonga.

Half their forwards play in the French leagues and they will be big, disciplined and physical...likewise the Romanians.

Its their backs that probably let them down abit...but hell so does Englands.....

I even bet the Georgians and Romanians could defend a rolling maul or even get one going bet than us Welsh .

With regards promoting these games then guess there is no easy way as the sponsors/tv would want a good return on their investment which not sure how much they would get from these games. Same as everything though we wouldn't know until we tried.

bedfordwelsh wrote:With regards promoting these games then guess there is no easy way as the sponsors/tv would want a good return on their investment which not sure how much they would get from these games. Same as everything though we wouldn't know until we tried.

Convince them somehow that all those Romanians UKIP go on about are real and watching Sky/BT?

Can understand that the likes of Romania and Georgia want "full" internationals but equally can understand the reluctance of the major teams to want to play against them - maybe something could be done in a Lions year when all the home nations send "second string" but still full international touring parties out in the summer - some sort of "swing" around Eastern Europe, Romania, Georga, Russia?

The last time England played Samoa at Twickenham was in 2005. A particularly dangerous display of 'tackling' from Samoa eventually erupted towards the end. Moody lost it, but how none of the other England players didn't I don’t know. The link does work.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=sx_SU4qAKe6o0AWEn4CICQ&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DFbT57NO0Qig&cd=2&ved=0CB8QtwIwAQ&usg=AFQjCNFrcUOQWJHB96cleyyeX5iCgO00NQ

bedfordwelsh wrote:With regards promoting these games then guess there is no easy way as the sponsors/tv would want a good return on their investment which not sure how much they would get from these games.  Same as everything though we wouldn't know until we tried.

I don't think Georgia or Romania are any worse than Fiji or Canada though.

Hound of Harrow wrote:The last time England played Samoa at Twickenham was in 2005. A particularly dangerous display of 'tackling' from Samoa eventually erupted towards the end. Moody lost it, but how none of the other England players didn't I don’t know. The link does work.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=sx_SU4qAKe6o0AWEn4CICQ&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DFbT57NO0Qig&cd=2&ved=0CB8QtwIwAQ&usg=AFQjCNFrcUOQWJHB96cleyyeX5iCgO00NQ

Watching that vid, it make you wonder why Samoa don't use the rolling maul more, cos when they all piled in the English lads went backwards at a rate of knots.

Notch wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:With regards promoting these games then guess there is no easy way as the sponsors/tv would want a good return on their investment which not sure how much they would get from these games.  Same as everything though we wouldn't know until we tried.

I don't think Georgia or Romania are any worse than Fiji or Canada though.

I think they're better and more likely to make the progression up Notch.

Canada have gone nowhere since they had a decent side in the 1990 WC with Norm Hadley, Dan Eckhard, etc. Fiji will always produce brilliant players and had periods where they are decent but again they will never make the next run of the ladder.

Samoa's problem is securing their own line out ball

Wales suffered a bout of savage Samoan 'head shots' 2 or 3 seasons ago at the MS. And it was i[size=107]nteresting after the Tuilagi tackle that Barnes said it wasn't even a red card. How things have changed eh![/size]

Anyway, there are some interesting match ups for some of the 2nd tier teams.

Italy and France have a challenging looking 6N.

I'm not sure what's happening with my phone (or this forum), but that's twice today that I've had a post where a random font size is trying to be inserted.

Hound of Harrow wrote:The last time England played Samoa at Twickenham was in 2005. A particularly dangerous display of 'tackling' from Samoa eventually erupted towards the end. Moody lost it, but how none of the other England players didn't I don’t know. The link does work.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=sx_SU4qAKe6o0AWEn4CICQ&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DFbT57NO0Qig&cd=2&ved=0CB8QtwIwAQ&usg=AFQjCNFrcUOQWJHB96cleyyeX5iCgO00NQ

Getting forgetful in your old age?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/9195937.stm

Obviously HoT. But probably because England were completely dross at that time and picking players who were palpably not international class.

 

Games against the big three southern teams are the money spinners though. If I was head/dictator/overlord of the IRB I'd simply pass a rule stating a 6 Nations side is not allowed play any Rugby Championship side in the Autumn until they've also organized one game against a tier 2 nation. So we'll all have to play Georgia/USA etc. to reach the jackpot of playing the All Blacks

My solution would be for Tier1 teams to only tour one Tier1 nation in an international window & also play a team from a lower tier in that window

Feckless Rogue wrote:Games against the big three southern teams are the money spinners though. If I was head/dictator/overlord of the IRB I'd simply pass a rule stating a 6 Nations side is not allowed play any Rugby Championship side in the Autumn until they've also organized one game against a tier 2 nation. So we'll all have to play Georgia/USA etc. to reach the jackpot of playing the All Blacks

FR,

Something like that would be good and if the IRB were really bothered surely they could do it.

The 6 nations sides shouldn't be playing other European sides during the AI. It's taking away their home game. The touring sides should be playing them at home.

There should be, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Argentina, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga, Japan, USA, Canada...so there's 10. They should be touring England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France, Italy, Russia, Georgia, Romania, Spain..there's 10 (ranking wise that's the top 21 without Uruguay). But money. The home nations get more from the big games and the big touring sides get a nice payout from the big sides.

HammerofThunor wrote: But money. The home nations get more from the big games and the big touring sides get a nice payout from the big sides.

And therein lies the problem, most if not all the big Unions (WRU especially) are only interested in the money and not that of the 'smaller' Unions.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote: But money. The home nations get more from the big games and the big touring sides get a nice payout from the big sides.

And therein lies the problem, most if not all the big Unions (WRU especially) are only interested in the money and not that of the 'smaller' Unions.

BW - I think their counterparts at Murrayfield, Twickenham and Landsdowne Road think the same.

I am right in thinking that you basically have to pay for the priviledge of having the SH teams turn up - would the lesser unions be able to afford it or do you think the AB's/Bokke would take a drop in their touring income to spread the game?

Feckless Rogue wrote:Games against the big three southern teams are the money spinners though. If I was head/dictator/overlord of the IRB I'd simply pass a rule stating a 6 Nations side is not allowed play any Rugby Championship side in the Autumn until they've also organized one game against a tier 2 nation. So we'll all have to play Georgia/USA etc. to reach the jackpot of playing the All Blacks

Or the IRB could introduce a rule that the AB's/Boks/Aussies have to play one game against a SH Tier 2 nation before they can come north?