Indy Ref

by **Notch** Wed 17 Sep 2014, 10:09 pm

First topic message reminder :

George Carlin wrote: v
Let me start this off, then. I have printed and read all literature which either side has published on this debate over the past 2 years (including the main policy papers from the SNP and from Better Together/UK Treasury and the Wee Blue Book).

If I had the chance, I would think hard about it, but ultimately I think that I would vote 'no'.

It seems to me, with my pea brain, that:

1. As a professional economist, Alex Salmond has had his entire political and professional life to make a waterproof financial case for an independent Scotland. Provided that there isn't something I've missed, I cannot see that he has done so. How can we still be fishing for answers to very fundemental questions so close to the actual voting date? Surely if it was the case that Scotland had a solid long term financial future, there would be a far greater volume of published consensus? If the financial case for independence cannot be clearly and verifiably made (without optimistic financial projects which strain credulity), then this is where this debate begins and ends for me. What do we tell our kids otherwise?

2. I entirely understand and appreciate that stepping into the unknown cannot in itself be a reason to say 'no'. You cannot have opportunity without risk. However, is anyone else disappointed with the quality of verifiable information that has been made available to us throughout this entire debate? Whilst I don't expect all answers to all questions, surely it is better to err on the side of caution until such time as policy can be firmly established.

If this was a trial, the verdict would be 'not proven'.

What I don't believe is if Scotland votes no, the chance to do so again would be lost forever. I think that we may see another vote on this topic within a generation (20 years) if a 'no' vote does not have a clear majority amongst Scottish people. I would be happy with that.

Discuss. For the love of feck, please be nice.

by fa0019 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 3:10 pm

GLove39 wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Woman for independence leader is on BBC Scotland radio saying that Lord Ashcroft's poll shows the 'vast majority' of under 55s voted Yes, and that it was the old people that caused such a No vote.

He polled 2000 people...Not exactly definitive.
Jeez, I know I haven't lived in the UK for the last two years, but when did we give the vote to women?

Slippery slope, soon we'll be letting them into golf clubhouses!

Don't worrying lads... if all fails there are always those all male bathhouses/saunas you can frequent to keep woman out of your life if needs be!!! Shocked

by **Notch** Fri 19 Sep 2014, 3:19 pm

We've all gone a bit mad haven't we.

by fa0019 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 3:25 pm

Notch wrote:We've all gone a bit mad haven't we.

That's what happens when you listen to those eunachs Salmond and Sturgeon for too long! I think we all need an independence blackout, a few brandy's & coke and a wales vs England match to watch others go hammer and tong at each other on the boards.

by MrsP Fri 19 Sep 2014, 3:28 pm

I was just popping in to say that I am glad you are staying!

But I see I am not welcome!

<flouncesoffslammingthedoorveryloudlyonthewayout!> Run

by PenfroPete Fri 19 Sep 2014, 3:36 pm

Quick question

Will there be a new Scottish anthem? Is it not a wee bit disingenuous now to sing of “that fought and died for’ when all people had to do was put a cross in a box, but didn’t. Also ‘ we can still rise now and be the nation again’ ? The Scottish people had their chance and didn’t take it Crying or Very sad

by fa0019 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 3:53 pm

PenfroPete wrote:Quick question

Will there be a new Scottish anthem? Is it not a wee bit disingenuous now to sing of “that fought and died for’ when all people had to do was put a cross in a box, but didn’t. Also ‘ we can still rise now and be the nation again’ ? The Scottish people had their chance and didn’t take it

Perhaps. The same could be said of the land of my fathers though... I mean, when Wales' rugby team lines up singing land of my fathers you're unsure if they're talking about NZ, AUS, SA, ENG etc or indeed Wales.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:04 pm

fa0019 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:Out of curiosity...given the Scots have decided not to be an independent nation...does that mean the rugby (and Soccer) teams will become part of a British team or something? Seems logical.

Maybe it will make players more patriotic i.e. less likely to do a I'm 1/4 Irish McGeady and play for your lot over his own country.

No idea what that is suppose to mean but just on McGeady... He spent a lot of his childhood in Ireland and his family has very strong irish links so he's not exactly the best example to use.

by fa0019 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:08 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:Out of curiosity...given the Scots have decided not to be an independent nation...does that mean the rugby (and Soccer) teams will become part of a British team or something? Seems logical.

Maybe it will make players more patriotic i.e. less likely to do a I'm 1/4 Irish McGeady and play for your lot over his own country.
No idea what that is suppose to mean but just on McGeady... He spent a lot of his childhood in Ireland and his family has very strong irish links so he's not exactly the best example to use.

He is 1/4 Irish. 3/4 Scottish.. only his paternal grandfather is of Irish descent. Even his father said he wanted him to play for Scotland and it was only Glasgow Celtics refusal to comply with the SFA that meant no players on Celtics books could play for Scotland.

Hell I spent much of my holidays in Spain as a child but I'm as Spanish as I am monkey's uncle.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:13 pm

There is actually a video of McGeady in an Ireland jersey as young lad playing football. He is very proud to play for Ireland and certainly has no regrets with his choice.

I know he very much a scot at heart, I was just saying there are better examples... It is the ROI national team after all.

by GLove39 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:15 pm

Alex Salmond has announced he will step down as First Minister

by **Notch** Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:26 pm

GLove39 wrote:Alex Salmond has announced he will step down as First Minister

He's achieved something quite special but this was his time to pass on the baton to Sturgeon whatever happened. Nicola Sturgeon is ready to lead and will do well as First Minister.

by offload Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:28 pm

GLove39 wrote:Alex Salmond has announced he will step down as First Minister

Good. Scotland could do with a leader who does not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

by tigertattie Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:31 pm

Thats toad face stepping down

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29277527

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:31 pm

fa0019 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
Notch wrote:Whats most interesting to me is this graphic;

https://twitter.com/HereInScotland/status/512915502076014592/photo/1

14% of SNP voters from 2011 voted NO. 5% of Tory voters from 2011 voted YES.

Fascinating to imagine their journey.

Amazing stats there....really shows Salmond's 16-17 year old stat to be what exactly it stood for.... nothing to do with democracy at all.

16-17 years

71% yes. 12% points more than the next best age group.

Says it all.

And most the pensioners who voted to keep the Union could be dead in 10 years. It seems very logical to me that 16-17 year olds should have a say as they will be around hopefully for the next 50/60 years.

The thing about the old is that yes they vote en masse and in this case for the union... but they generally vote with their heads. "You can't teach your grandmother to suck eggs"

Experience, an experience of all avenues, scenarios gives them a good perspective in life. They have been around the block, some are still alive to have given everything, saw their nation on its knees in WWII and know what really matters in live, "not... hell, this bedroom tax is so unfair teenage angst moan at the world".

Kids, are what they are. We don't trust them to be on the roads or use the most basic drugs and socially acceptable drugs (Tobacco and Alcohol) or even vote in any other non permanent political elections.. so why oh why would we give them the right to vote in a no turnaround one off decision. They are not allowed to live on their own, get married... why not.... simply because they are not seen again as mature to maintain themselves or make formative decisions.

14 year olds are just as smart, pretty much as developed brain function wise? Why not them.... because common sense tells us neither have reached an appropriate level of maturity on a mass scale for them to make such an important individual decision.

It was politically based only.... why because Salmond knew the sample. He knew it could help him and it did by at least 1% maybe more. Those small margins may have been all that mattered had other things gone his way. Cameron should have known better.

Not too long ago, women didn't have the vote, or you didn't get the vote until you are 21. Kids are smart nowadays - they have access to a whole lot of information. Anyway, EU are proposing that voting age be decreased - another reason perhaps for UK to leave the EU?

by fa0019 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:34 pm

Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
Notch wrote:Whats most interesting to me is this graphic;

https://twitter.com/HereInScotland/status/512915502076014592/photo/1

14% of SNP voters from 2011 voted NO. 5% of Tory voters from 2011 voted YES.

Fascinating to imagine their journey.

Amazing stats there....really shows Salmond's 16-17 year old stat to be what exactly it stood for.... nothing to do with democracy at all.

16-17 years

71% yes. 12% points more than the next best age group.

Says it all.

And most the pensioners who voted to keep the Union could be dead in 10 years. It seems very logical to me that 16-17 year olds should have a say as they will be around hopefully for the next 50/60 years.

The thing about the old is that yes they vote en masse and in this case for the union... but they generally vote with their heads. "You can't teach your grandmother to suck eggs"

Experience, an experience of all avenues, scenarios gives them a good perspective in life. They have been around the block, some are still alive to have given everything, saw their nation on its knees in WWII and know what really matters in live, "not... hell, this bedroom tax is so unfair teenage angst moan at the world".

Kids, are what they are. We don't trust them to be on the roads or use the most basic drugs and socially acceptable drugs (Tobacco and Alcohol) or even vote in any other non permanent political elections.. so why oh why would we give them the right to vote in a no turnaround one off decision. They are not allowed to live on their own, get married... why not.... simply because they are not seen again as mature to maintain themselves or make formative decisions.

14 year olds are just as smart, pretty much as developed brain function wise? Why not them.... because common sense tells us neither have reached an appropriate level of maturity on a mass scale for them to make such an important individual decision.

It was politically based only.... why because Salmond knew the sample. He knew it could help him and it did by at least 1% maybe more. Those small margins may have been all that mattered had other things gone his way. Cameron should have known better.

Not too long ago, women didn't have the vote, or you didn't get the vote until you are 21. Kids are smart nowadays - they have access to a whole lot of information. Anyway, EU are proposing that voting age be decreased - another reason perhaps for UK to leave the EU?

Didn't actually answer my question into why there was a 23% point diff between 16-17 and 18-24 year olds mind.

If they are so smart why don't we allow them to drive...physically they are 99% there.

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:34 pm

fa0019 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:Out of curiosity...given the Scots have decided not to be an independent nation...does that mean the rugby (and Soccer) teams will become part of a British team or something? Seems logical.

Maybe it will make players more patriotic i.e. less likely to do a I'm 1/4 Irish McGeady and play for your lot over his own country.
No idea what that is suppose to mean but just on McGeady... He spent a lot of his childhood in Ireland and his family has very strong irish links so he's not exactly the best example to use.

He is 1/4 Irish. 3/4 Scottish.. only his paternal grandfather is of Irish descent. Even his father said he wanted him to play for Scotland and it was only Glasgow Celtics refusal to comply with the SFA that meant no players on Celtics books could play for Scotland.

Hell I spent much of my holidays in Spain as a child but I'm as Spanish as I am monkey's uncle.

His soul is Irish. There maybe a lot more young Scottish lads declaring for Ireland after this.

(I don't expect you to understand that, by the way).

by fa0019 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:35 pm

Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:Out of curiosity...given the Scots have decided not to be an independent nation...does that mean the rugby (and Soccer) teams will become part of a British team or something? Seems logical.

Maybe it will make players more patriotic i.e. less likely to do a I'm 1/4 Irish McGeady and play for your lot over his own country.
No idea what that is suppose to mean but just on McGeady... He spent a lot of his childhood in Ireland and his family has very strong irish links so he's not exactly the best example to use.

He is 1/4 Irish. 3/4 Scottish.. only his paternal grandfather is of Irish descent. Even his father said he wanted him to play for Scotland and it was only Glasgow Celtics refusal to comply with the SFA that meant no players on Celtics books could play for Scotland.

Hell I spent much of my holidays in Spain as a child but I'm as Spanish as I am monkey's uncle.

His soul is Irish. There maybe a lot more young Scottish lads declaring for Ireland after this.

(I don't expect you to understand that, by the way).

if that's good enough for you then so be it. His family wanted him to play for Scotland.. that's on record.

by fa0019 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:38 pm

fa0019 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:Out of curiosity...given the Scots have decided not to be an independent nation...does that mean the rugby (and Soccer) teams will become part of a British team or something? Seems logical.

Maybe it will make players more patriotic i.e. less likely to do a I'm 1/4 Irish McGeady and play for your lot over his own country.
No idea what that is suppose to mean but just on McGeady... He spent a lot of his childhood in Ireland and his family has very strong irish links so he's not exactly the best example to use.

He is 1/4 Irish. 3/4 Scottish.. only his paternal grandfather is of Irish descent. Even his father said he wanted him to play for Scotland and it was only Glasgow Celtics refusal to comply with the SFA that meant no players on Celtics books could play for Scotland.

Hell I spent much of my holidays in Spain as a child but I'm as Spanish as I am monkey's uncle.

His soul is Irish. There maybe a lot more young Scottish lads declaring for Ireland after this.

(I don't expect you to understand that, by the way).

if that's good enough for you then so be it. His family wanted him to play for Scotland.. that's on record.

Ps - I bet he has never lived in Ireland and furthermore, the minute he stops as a pro he will never will either.

He has Irish lineage and I'm sure he is proud to wear the jersey... but there is no denial... he was shopped and only due one of his grandparents who left Ireland probably 60 years ago.

by lostinwales Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:42 pm

Sin é wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:Out of curiosity...given the Scots have decided not to be an independent nation...does that mean the rugby (and Soccer) teams will become part of a British team or something? Seems logical.

Maybe it will make players more patriotic i.e. less likely to do a I'm 1/4 Irish McGeady and play for your lot over his own country.
No idea what that is suppose to mean but just on McGeady... He spent a lot of his childhood in Ireland and his family has very strong irish links so he's not exactly the best example to use.

He is 1/4 Irish. 3/4 Scottish.. only his paternal grandfather is of Irish descent. Even his father said he wanted him to play for Scotland and it was only Glasgow Celtics refusal to comply with the SFA that meant no players on Celtics books could play for Scotland.

Hell I spent much of my holidays in Spain as a child but I'm as Spanish as I am monkey's uncle.

His soul is Irish. There maybe a lot more young Scottish lads declaring for Ireland after this.

(I don't expect you to understand that, by the way).

Funny. There is this Australian prop called Longbottom at Saracens. Apparently his soul is English.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:48 pm

Notch wrote:
GLove39 wrote:Alex Salmond has announced he will step down as First Minister

He's achieved something quite special but this was his time to pass on the baton to Sturgeon whatever happened. Nicola Sturgeon is ready to lead and will do well as First Minister.

Agreed on the Sturge. She'll do a good job and I'm quite happy with her as FM, now that independence is off the cards.

by GLove39 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:53 pm

I'm saddened to see him go.

What a fighter Wee Eck has been. From doing what many said was impossible and getting a majority for the SNP. To making this referendum happen in the first place. To waking up so many of the electorate and forcing Westminster to hopefully sit up and take notice and deliver additional powers for Scotland.

From free prescriptions to scrapping tuition fess, Scotland is better for him.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:56 pm

On the decision to allow 16 and 17 year olds the vote, I was actually in favour given the huge importance of this one-off referendum, despite being a No voter and suspecting that they would favour a Yes vote.

That said, I have no doubt that the motivation of the Yes campaign in bringing them in was to increase the Yes vote, and that they would not have done so had it been the other way around. For example very little was done to allow Scots abroad to vote, and again I suspect that the feeling was that ASBO aside, they would have favoured No.

Still, it was the right outcome in my view and it was great to hear of all the mock debates etc. in schools to inform the 16 and 17 year olds of the various issues. Hopefully it will have energised a new generation to be more politically engaged, and that can only be a good thing.

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 4:57 pm

fa0019 wrote:

if that's good enough for you then so be it. His family wanted him to play for Scotland.. that's on record.

I imagine his family thought it might be easier for him if he declared for Scotland and wanted to stay playing in Scotland. Same for James McCarthy - you eventually ran him out of Scotland.

Interview here which says that McGeady spent every summer in Donegal as a child (I think his grandparents had moved back to Donegal from Scotland). He also played for ROI from when he was U15s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSS61Deu8t8

As for keeping up the connection - Ray Houghton who didn't really have a big connection with Ireland is back and forth here the whole time and is regarded as a hero. Most of those lads who might be regarded as having a lose connection to Ireland maintained that connection. Jack Charlton has a house over here.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:14 pm

It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

by Cyril Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:26 pm

16 year-olds getting the vote?

Women in clubhouses?

Irish having souls?

Whatever next?

Wink

by funnyExiledScot Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:36 pm

Well assuming the Sturge gets the nod that'll mean the SNP, Labour and Tories all have female leaders up here in Scotland. That's got to be progress of sorts......

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:41 pm

The tears of a gael

So Scotland has decided, and Yes lost. However last night, I genuinely believe, everyone in Scotland lost. My heart weeps.

We've woken today no more able to tackle inequality, poverty or austerity than we were yesterday - talk about lost opportunities. The establishment, the ruling elite, supported by the might of the mainstream meejah, remain with their noses firmly in the trough. Nearly one in four children are still born in poverty in Scotland (http://www.savethechildren.org.uk/where-we-work/united-kingdom/scotland) - that is simply disgusting. 45% of the electorate in the highest turnout in modern UK political history voted for hope and for change, and won’t get them.

The Tories will triumph in the next UK election as saviours of the Union, then be forced into an EU referendum only a demented minority of them really want, and which will result in a disastrous exit from the EU. And of course, the Lib Dems were dying no matter what. The No campaign desperately abandoned all pretence of being an alliance and turned into a red-and-yellow-branded Labour one at the end, only to lose in Labour’s core Glasgow heartland and doom the party to all but certain defeat in both 2015 and 2016. The SNP will likely take advantage at the ballot box, even without that master politician (like him or no), Salmond.

So it goes.

The 10-point defeat is closer than anyone had imagined the Yes movement would ever get until the final few weeks. As it turned out, the polls were too optimistic. In the Yes strongholds, home to the “missing million” on whom the campaign’s hopes were pinned, turnout bucked the trend and was lowest. 25% of the people of our biggest city simply didn’t feel the urge to register their opinion. But we must applaud the unprecedented surge of electoral engagement and participation, even if in the end it was mobilised mainly to prevent something from happening, not to make it happen.

Expect a harsh new “devolution settlement” that will rob Scotland of most of the gains of the Scottish Parliament, and the parties of the Union will be able to say truthfully that in doing so they’ve delivered exactly what they promised.

But that’s it. The battle is over. Let there be no doubt that the result was a fair and accurate reflection of votes cast. So many wonderful people embraced the idea of transformational change and tried their best to make Scotland a better place to live in - for everyone not just the few. But, as happens in a democracy, we didn’t win. We embraced hope but the vote went against us. Anyone who believes in the sovereignty of the people and the principles of democracy, then we have to accept the result.

The brave new Scotland we could all have built is lost. The Scottish people can bring no meaningful influence to bear on politics in the UK for the forseeable future – whoever they elect at Holyrood will be crippled by budget cuts as a result of the new tax “powers”, and Scottish votes will be as impotent at Westminster as they’ve always been. I cannot envisage the UK government allowing there to be another independence referendum in our lifetime.

That we all terrified the elite and the establishment more than it has ever been frightened in living memory is not in doubt. But ultimately this is a story of failure. Our best efforts fell short. Our ~~nation~~ region bottled it.

For those that need a translation of Dish Face's speech from Bullingdonese, the Huff Post has handily provided one:

David Cameron's Scotland Speech: A Translation

The Huffington Post UK | By Andrea Mann

DAVID CAMERON SCOTLAND SPEECH

Translated: the highlights of David Cameron's speech following Scotland's decision to remain part of the UK...

The people of Scotland have spoken. It is a clear result. They have kept our country of four nations together. Like millions of other people, I am delighted.

Thank f*** for that.

As I said during the campaign, it would have broken my heart to see our United Kingdom come to an end.

As it became clear during the final weeks of the campaign, it would have broken my heart to see my premiership come to an end.

And I know that sentiment was shared by people, not just across our country, but also around the world…

And I know that sentiment was shared by people, although not half of the Scottish people...

So now it is time for our United Kingdom to come together, and to move forward.

So now it is time for all the Yes voters to shut up.

A vital part of that will be a balanced settlement – fair to people in Scotland and importantly to everyone in England, Wales and Northern Ireland as well.

A vital part of that will be a balanced settlement – fair to the Tories who back me and the ones who are really, really angry about what I've agreed to.

Let us first remember why we had this debate – and why it was right to do so.

Let me first remind you that you have no right to complain about this.

The Scottish National Party was elected in Scotland in 2011 and promised a referendum on independence...

I agreed to what the Scottish National Party wanted because I never thought I could lose...

We could have put it off but just as with other big issues, it was right to take - not duck - the big decision.

Just as with other issues, it was right to take what felt like absolutely no risk at all.

But I am also a democrat. And it was right that we respected the SNP’s majority in Holyrood and gave the Scottish people their right to have their say.

But I am also a Tory. And it was right that Westminster allowed the little people of Scotland to play at democracy.

Let us also remember why it was right to ask the definitive question, Yes or No.

Let us also remember why it was right to ask the definitive question, Yes or No. It was because I didn't want to offer you what I've been forced to offer you now.

Because now the debate has been settled for a generation or as Alex Salmond has said, perhaps for a lifetime. So there can be no disputes, no re-runs – we have heard the settled will of the Scottish people.

Back in your box, Yes supporters.

I also want to pay tribute to Yes Scotland for a well-fought campaign and to say to all those who did vote for independence: "We hear you."

I also want to pay lip service to Yes Scotland for a campaign that scared the life out of us, and to say to all those who did vote for independence: "Yes, we ignored you. For years."

Political leaders on all sides of the debate now bear a heavy responsibility to come together and work constructively to advance the interests of people in Scotland, as well as those in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, for each and every citizen of our United Kingdom.

Political leaders on all sides of the debate now bear a heavy responsibility to come together and work constructively to advance the interests of people in Scotland, as well as those in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, for each and every citizen of our United Kingdom. Don't hold your breath.

The three pro-union parties have made commitments, clear commitments, on further powers for the Scottish Parliament. We will ensure that they are honoured in full.

The three pro-union parties have made commitments, clear commitments, on further powers for the Scottish Parliament. We will ensure that they are honoured in full, just as we honoured our pledge that the NHS was safe in our hands and Nick Clegg honoured his pledge on tuition fees.

Just as the people of Scotland will have more power over their affairs, so it follows that the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland must have a bigger say over theirs.

I'm absolutely bricking it about what we've started here.

I have asked William Hague to draw up these plans.

To draw up these plans, I have asked a man used to dealing with foreign countries and war.

We will set up a Cabinet Committee right away and proposals will also be ready to the same timetable.

This is no way a rush job being drawn up at the last minute when in fact we had three years to plan it.

I hope the Labour Party and other parties will contribute.

My own party hates me so without Labour, I'm f***ed.

This referendum has been hard fought.

This referendum has scared the life out of me.

It has stirred strong passions.

I almost cried at one point.

It has electrified politics in Scotland, and caught the imagination of people across the whole of our United Kingdom.

People have actually cared about politics for once because they knew their voted counted and they had a real chance of getting rid of this government.

It will be remembered as a powerful demonstration of the strength and vitality of our ancient democracy.

It will be remembered as the time I completely f***ed things up and almost lost my job thanks to the strength and vitality of the Scottish people.

Record numbers registered to vote and record numbers cast their vote. We can all be proud of that.

Record numbers registered to vote and record numbers cast their vote. We Tories can all be terrified of that.

It has reminded us how fortunate we are that we are able to settle these vital issues at the ballot box, peacefully and calmly.

It has reminded me how fortunate I am to still be Prime Minister.

Now we must look forward and turn this into the moment when everyone – whichever way they voted – comes together to build that better, brighter future for our entire United Kingdom.

Now the Tory party must look forward and turn this into the moment when everyone – however angry they are with me – comes together to build that better, brighter future for me as Prime Minister.

For those that need a Toad in their politics, step forward David Coburn, cohort of the No campaign and UKIP:
Indy Ref - Page 7 288958-david-coburn-ukip-lead-candidate-in-scotland-from-scotland-tonight-interview

Indy Ref - Page 7 288958-david-coburn-ukip-lead-candidate-in-scotland-from-scotland-tonight-interview

Good luck and goodbye

by SecretFly Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:46 pm

I'm laughing at all the prim and proper 'Leaders' now talking about the Great Challenges and Massive Issues and Big Opportunities to CHANGE the UK for the better - administrative change, devolution changes, Chamber changes, possible constitutions, more regional powers etc etc......................... it's beginning to sound like Independence for everyone now!, listening to them fall over themselves for CHANGE descriptions.

................ and the man that started the process, that forced the process - the REAL Changer - quietly resigns after having failed to encourage his own people to change a thing.

Listening to the Westminster darlings talking now, you'd swear all the coming exciting CHANGES, that are going to empower more of the people more of the time, was initiated by them alone. Everyone though knows not a word of needed CHANGE (including the more devolved power for the English themselves) would be uttered today had not Salmond forced his Scottish referendum onto them.

Rather than offer him their fine words of how fine a fellow he was Whistle

they should simply and genuinely thank him for giving them their future electioneering agendas. Pity they needed him to invent the idea of more power to the people Wink

Novel idea for some of them.

by Cyril Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:49 pm

Yorkshire has a larger population than Scotland (plus more skilled workers and more natural resources*)

There's talk of us rising up soon Smile

*research still coming in

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:49 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around Wink

by funnyExiledScot Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:50 pm

Not sure he's a "cohort of the No campaign". Just a No voter who is also a politician. UKIP were specifically not part of Better Together, and have far more in common with the SNP.

Anyway ASBO - far too much scaremongering and negativity in that post. Us on the No side are now pushing forward a positive agenda for change - get with the program..... Wink

by MrsP Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:50 pm

On the bright side...

At least your new FM will be allowed to be a member of the R&A.

And, I would have missed you.

Crying or Very sad

by funnyExiledScot Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:51 pm

Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I'm not concerned. We poach far more than we lose......

by Cyril Fri 19 Sep 2014, 5:53 pm

Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I got an Irish soul free with a pint of Guinness. Unfortunately the glass had a craic in it so I sent it back.

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 6:18 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I'm not concerned. We poach far more than we lose......

You just said that they are good players that Scotland could do with. Have you 'poached' any players worth having?

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 6:21 pm

Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I got an Irish soul free with a pint of Guinness. Unfortunately the glass had a craic in it so I sent it back.

I'm not surprised. Guinness is now a British owned company. Its Irish soul is long gone.

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 6:22 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Not sure he's a "cohort of the No campaign". Just a No voter who is also a politician. UKIP were specifically not part of Better Together, and have far more in common with the SNP.

Anyway ASBO - far too much scaremongering and negativity in that post. Us on the No side are now pushing forward a positive agenda for change - get with the program.....

UKIP are going to take you out of the EU, ably assisted by Cameron.

by SecretFly Fri 19 Sep 2014, 6:24 pm

Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I got an Irish soul free with a pint of Guinness. Unfortunately the glass had a craic in it so I sent it back.

The cracked glass was the soul, eejit! We're poetically melancholic innit.

by SecretFly Fri 19 Sep 2014, 6:25 pm

Sin é wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I got an Irish soul free with a pint of Guinness. Unfortunately the glass had a craic in it so I sent it back.

I'm not surprised. Guinness is now a British owned company. Its Irish soul is long gone.

Re-colonisation through the pub door.

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 6:32 pm

Oh, oh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAtJLGswfTo

by Dave. Fri 19 Sep 2014, 6:47 pm

Och aye the NO.

Very happy Scotland has decided to stay. Great turnout. We might knock this country from time to time and boy it has its faults, but it was great that Scotland was allowed to make this decision democratically. A great country in a great country.

Now for a federal UK and home rule for all nations and regions.

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 19 Sep 2014, 6:54 pm

Sin é wrote:Oh, oh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAtJLGswfTo

I'm sure even if it was found to be rigged nothing would be done.

by ME-109 Fri 19 Sep 2014, 7:00 pm

Sin é wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I got an Irish soul free with a pint of Guinness. Unfortunately the glass had a craic in it so I sent it back.

I'm not surprised. Guinness is now a British owned company. Its Irish soul is long gone.

It never had an Irish soul

by SecretFly Fri 19 Sep 2014, 7:07 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Sin é wrote:
I'm not surprised. Guinness is now a British owned company. Its Irish soul is long gone.

It never had an Irish soul

We're not of you but we'll pretend we are?

An Early Rendition of the EU soul then. Whistle

by Cyril Fri 19 Sep 2014, 7:10 pm

Sin é wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I got an Irish soul free with a pint of Guinness. Unfortunately the glass had a craic in it so I sent it back.

I'm not surprised. Guinness is now a British owned company. Its Irish soul is long gone.

Even the much-praised commercials were created by a Brit.

by SecretFly Fri 19 Sep 2014, 7:13 pm

I was crucified earlier for isolating 'England' within the UK for special attention. It ain't just 'England' was the retort for me.
Yet the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland paused outside Number 10 in Downing Street, London to specifically highlight 'England' as a particular interest for him in the oncoming reorganisation of the United Kingdom.

????

Hmmm............. Scotland loses Independence and allows 'England' to gain it? Wouldn't an Independent Scotland have effected that solution quicker?

by Cyril Fri 19 Sep 2014, 7:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:I was crucified earlier for isolating 'England' within the UK for special attention. It ain't just 'England' was the retort for me.
Yet the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland paused outside Number 10 in Downing Street, London to specifically highlight 'England' as a particular interest for him in the oncoming reorganisation of the United Kingdom.

????

Hmmm............. Scotland loses Independence and allows 'England' to gain it? Wouldn't an Independent Scotland have effected that solution quicker?

No, he's saying that Scotland, England, Wales and NI should be granted powers at the same pace.

by Sin é Fri 19 Sep 2014, 7:21 pm

Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's just annoying because James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady are really good. We have plenty of completely average players who I would be perfectly happy for them to discover an Irish soul!

Well maybe if you discovered a Scottish soul, they might have hung around

I got an Irish soul free with a pint of Guinness. Unfortunately the glass had a craic in it so I sent it back.

I'm not surprised. Guinness is now a British owned company. Its Irish soul is long gone.
Even the much-praised commercials were created by a Brit.

Praised by who? Carlsberg & Heineken do way better ads.

by offload Fri 19 Sep 2014, 7:21 pm

As a Brit and a Welshman I find myself in a minority. My Nationalism extends only to rugby, beyond that I don't give fig.

I detest the small minded, petty politicians who insist we will all be better off by forming into little tribes. Devolution has been a monumental waste of time and money. Wales and Scotland lag behind not because of Westminster, but because we have *issed away millions on unnecessary local politicians and assembly buildings that nobody needs. Hundreds of power crazy wannabes trying to justify their existence.

I want to live in a strong UK protected by a strong economy - a union of nationalities with all examples of the human race. I'm delighted that a tiny minority of UK citizens failed to break up my country.

by SecretFly Fri 19 Sep 2014, 7:22 pm

Cyril wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I was crucified earlier for isolating 'England' within the UK for special attention. It ain't just 'England' was the retort for me.
Yet the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland paused outside Number 10 in Downing Street, London to specifically highlight 'England' as a particular interest for him in the oncoming reorganisation of the United Kingdom.

????

Hmmm............. Scotland loses Independence and allows 'England' to gain it? Wouldn't an Independent Scotland have effected that solution quicker?
No, he's saying that Scotland, England, Wales and NI should be granted powers at the same pace.

Nope...he paused for 'England' alone. Special mention. The special baby that requires to be soothed more than possibly others as it was most disturbed by the potential exit of a spoiled blue child out of its pram.

Nope, Cyril, I'm afraid your explanation won't work. England was paused on as a special case in his mind. Which was Salmond's argument for Independence all along - too big of a Father figure lurking within the Union and having too much influence as Union overlord.

Guy on BBC now talking about England's "Independence"!!! thumbsup

You couldn't write some of this stuff if you were trying to write a good novel. Scotland might actually get its Independence by in fact England stepping away from the Union first! Yahoo

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