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Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets 26th September

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Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets 26th September - Page 2 Empty Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets 26th September

Post by EWT Spoons Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Edinburgh Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets 26th September - Page 2 Edinbu11 v ScarletsEdinburgh Rugby v Scarlets 26th September - Page 2 Scarle10
26th September 2014
19:35
BT Murrayfield
Guinness PRO12
Sadly on TV – BBC Alba & BBC Wales

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 38th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Stephen Hart (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Kirk (SRU)
TMO: David Changleng (SRU)


Edinburgh
Last 3 Matches
Date
Home Away
21/9/14 Ospreys 62 - 13 Edinburgh
12/9/14 Edinburgh 13 - 14 Connacht
5/9/14 Munster 13 - 14 Edinburgh


Scarlets
Last 3 Matches
Date
Home Away
20/9/14 Scarlets 43 - 0 Treviso
13/9/14 Leinster 42 - 12 Scarlets
6/9/14 Scarlets 32 - 32 Ulster

Teams:

Edinburgh  picard
15 Greig Tonks

14 Jack Cuthbert
13 Sam Beard

12 Andries Strauss
11 Tim Visser

10 Tom Heathcote
9 Sean Kennedy

1  Alasdair Dickinson
2  Ross Ford (captain)
3  John Andress
4  Anton Bresler
5  Ollie Atkins
6  Tomas Leonardi
7  Hamish Watson
8  Cornell Du Preez

16  James Hilterbrand
17  Allan Dell
18  Willem Nel
19  Grant Gilchrist
20  Roddy Grant
21  Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22  Phil Burleigh
23  Nick McLennan


Scarlets Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets 26th September - Page 2 Smiley12
15. Liam Williams
14. Harry Robinson
13. Gareth Owen
12. Scott Wiliams (capt)
11. Mike Tagicakibau
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Aled Davies
1. Rob Evans
2. Emyr Phillips
3. Rhodri Jones
4. Jake Ball
5. Johan Snyman
6. Aaron Shingler
7. John Barclay
8. Rob McCusker

Replacements
16. Kirby Myhill
17. Phil John
18. Samson Lee
19. Rory Pitman
20. James Davies
21. Rhodri Williams
22. Steven Shingler
23. Adam Warren


Last edited by EWT Spoons on Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by JonnyEdinburgh Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:08 pm

Agree re. Cuthbert on wing?!  Wing and full back are positions that you need a lot of the same qualities to play, but each one also requires specific skills.  Some people can change between both positions as their strengths are the aspects that work for both positions.  What makes Cuthbert a good full back though (big boot, good under the high ball, etc) are the skills more specifically needed for full back.

Reminds me a bit of of the "turn up and play" rugby festivals they used to do at school.  You either chose if your skills fitted the category of "backs" or "forwards" (it was really a choice between "slim" or "fat") and then got bumped around all the positions in your category.  It seems the same criteria is in use at Edinburgh.

Good that Gilchrist is back, was hoping to see a couple more of our injured back but hey ho.  

Also, thanks for your help regarding my lost season ticket.  It's been re-printed so I will be there tomorrow, with a reluctant friend in tow!

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Post by CraigS1874 Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:10 pm

I think it is sensible to play cuthbert on the wing and tonks at full back if we are playing in a Gail or if it is chucking it. Unfortunately the weather forecast is good for tomorrow and we could get a hammering,.

Glad to see Atkins is back I rate him as a ball carrier, anyone else thinks its harsh to drop sam hidalgo Clyne after last week?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:17 pm

Well every time I've seen Cuthbert on the wing he's been a complete non-entity. He isn't quick enough off the mark or elusive. His strengths, catching the high ball and kicking, are less used out on the wing, unless we're going to try a cross-field kick, and his direct running style from 15 doesn't translate too well on the wing where he can't hit the ball so well at full tilt (which is still pretty slow).

I can't imagine he'll be too pleased either as he has stated that he much prefers 15, and similarly Tonks, who has been working hard at becoming a 10.

I also agree that it's harsh to drop SH-C, although Kennedy is no slouch either. My bigger issue is that both 9s aren't being allowed to play to their strengths. Both could thrive if given the same sort of licence Matawalu has at Glasgow or Care at Quins, but we have two young fast 9s basically just box kicking all the time and slowing down the game. May as well play Grayson Hart if that's all you're going to do, as he's a bit more physical.

We are in such a mess at the moment.

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:25 pm

I’ve already got my ticket for this game, after seeing that selection I think that was £20.60 badly spent.

Cuthbert on the wing has been a disaster when tried before and I expect it will continue to be the same. Strauss is as mentioned by everyone not up to much.

Hilterbrand being on the bench suggests there is a chance he will come on at some point which is pretty depressing.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:30 pm

My expectations are somewhere around an Edinburgh defeat by 20 points! What is particularly sad is that I just cannot see that backline creating a try. I can see the forwards perhaps going over for a consolation rumble, maybe Nel off the bench or Du Preez, but short of Visser coming up with a length of the field individual effort, there's just no creativity in that backline.

The benefit of going, despite the rugby, will be to avoid the period of the day (5pm - 10pm) when BabyfES becomes possessed by what we have termed "Beelzibaby". If I go, she might even be asleep when I get back!

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:35 pm

Depressingly I would probably take a 20pt defeat at this stage.

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Post by JonnyEdinburgh Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:48 pm

[quote="funnyExiledScot"]My expectations are somewhere around an Edinburgh defeat by 20 points! What is particularly sad is that I just cannot see that backline creating a try. I can see the forwards perhaps going over for a consolation rumble, maybe Nel off the bench or Du Preez, but short of Visser coming up with a length of the field individual effort, there's just no creativity in that backline.

The benefit of going, despite the rugby, will be to avoid the period of the day (5pm - 10pm) when BabyfES becomes possessed by what we have termed "Beelzibaby". If I go, she might even be asleep when I get back![/quote]

Or better still, take her along and she'll be asleep before 8 o'clock.

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Post by EWT Spoons Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:55 pm

JonnyEdinburgh wrote:Or better still, take her along and she'll be asleep before 8 o'clock.


Think Child Services might get on his back for that, surely that must come under child cruelty

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Post by CraigS1874 Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:00 pm

Amazingly the bookies make us favourites, I will feel dirty if I put money on the Scarlets though.

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Post by RDW Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:16 pm

I hope for Solomons' sake we had no other wing options and he was forced to pick Cuthbert there and Tonks back at 15. Would beggar belief if the like of Hoyland was overlooked, and would say a lot about his faith in Brett Thomson if he's still not been picked!

I wouldn't say Tonks' run at 10 has come to an end - I'm still hopeful it's just because of the wing injury situation.

That is a seriously strong Scarlets team - who was trying to claim they would have a weak team and we should be beating them??

Final point - Glagsow's starting XV have 2 NSQ players.

We have 6.

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Post by RDW Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:22 pm

The size of our wingers does suggest a lot of hoofs into the air. Problems are:

- Visser is rubbish at competing for the ball in the air for a man of his size

- Williams is an excellent fullback, so if the kick chase defence is poor (and it was shockingly poor against O's), we are going to play into their hands and he'll rip us to shreds.

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Post by VinceWLB Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:31 pm

Key for this game is not allow the Scarlets playing open rugby, slow the ball down and make it a forward battle where i think Edinburgh can prevail with the right belief.
If it's a fast running game the gulf in class between the 2 backline will be a sad thing to behold.

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Post by George Carlin Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:41 pm

Perceptive Scarlets fans on these boards may be sensing a lack of optimism from Edinburgh fans.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:55 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:The size of our wingers does suggest a lot of hoofs into the air.  Problems are:

- Visser is rubbish at competing for the ball in the air for a man of his size

- Williams is an excellent fullback, so if the kick chase defence is poor (and it was shockingly poor against O's), we are going to play into their hands and he'll rip us to shreds.

+1. Also worth mentioning that the ball will need to hang in the air a long time in order to allow Cuthbert sufficient time to get underneath it!

Can't believe the bookies make us favourites. That has to be worth a bet!

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Post by reallybored Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:08 pm

Pleased to see Tonks back at full-back, his best position imo.

The backs still look weak though, when is Fife expected back?

Shame that Solomans hasn't looked to one of the younger wingers yet, was excited to see either Farndale or Hoyland get a chance this season.

Out-side centre is still a major problem, we're crying out for a Regan King type import, Burleigh looks more like a 12 but we've already got Scott.

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Post by RDW Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:23 pm

reallybored wrote:Pleased to see Tonks back at full-back, his best position imo.

The backs still look weak though, when is Fife expected back?

Shame that Solomans hasn't looked to one of the younger wingers yet, was excited to see either Farndale or Hoyland get a chance this season.

Out-side centre is still a major problem, we're crying out for a Regan King type import, Burleigh looks more like a 12 but we've already got Scott.

Fife's injury wasn't meant to be too serious so hopefully he's back soon - was looking sharp in pre-season. Farndale is out long term injured and Hoyland has been away with the 7s - not sure if he still is. No idea about Thompson.

Totally agree 100% on needing a good 13 - Laulala would be my ideal pick, but he's obviously not going to come along! A physical presence with a bit of pace too.

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Post by George Carlin Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:25 pm

I agree that a better division of existing skills is Heathcote at 10 and Tonks at 15, although it does unfortuantely mean the large donkey that it J. Cuthbert on the wing.

Where is Nikki Walker, exactly? I could take a salary and do nothing from over here. Annoyed that I didn't think of it first.

Makes getting rid of Lee Jones look all the more mad and I would always, always have a blaster like Jamie Farndale there instead (although I know he is injured). At least we know that he can finish a chance.

God, is this going to be another depressing season following Edinburgh?
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Post by RDW Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:32 pm

Walker is listed in the squad but I'm sure I read he'd been let go.

Good interview with Denton here - he certainly says things as it is.



David Denton has backed under pressure Edinburgh Rugby coach Alan Solomons to turn fortunes around after a record Guinness PRO12 loss – starting tomorrow against Scarlets at Murrayfield.

And 22 times capped Denton, recovering from a torn hamstring tendon, insisted: “It is important to remind everyone we are not a s*** team because a lot of younger players might (now) think like that.”

A 13-62 loss at Ospreys was the latest setback to befall Edinburgh who have won just once in eight league matches going back to last season and prospects aren’t enhanced by the fact they have beaten tomorrow’s rivals Scarlets only once in eight meetings. But a defiant Denton, who hopes to return in November, said: “Everybody is 100 per cent behind Solly (Alan Solomons). He is a very, very good coach. I’ve never seen anyone work so hard.

“Solly will be there from seven in the morning and until 5 or 6 every night. He’s very passionate about rugby and when I spoke to him about why he gave up being a lawyer he said it was because it is rugby he loves.

“Alan knows his stuff and our goals haven’t changed.”

Denton appeared anxious to put the season thus far, in which Edinburgh opened with a win at Munster before losing at home to Connacht, into perspective.

Insisting that the narrow pre-season friendly defeat by Leicester (0-45 losers at Bath last weekend) should be a reference point as well as the Munster win, he declared: “We went toe-to-toe with Leicester and at Munster came out on top in a physical battle. That’s where we go to (for answers).”

Nevertheless, Denton believes tomorrow’s match is a “must-win”. “It’s good we are back at Murrayfield tomorrow in familiar surroundings. The Ospreys result was a speed bump, a big speed bump admittedly, and a rude awakening. But we need to make sure we learned.

“That’s why Scarlets is a 
must-win and, because it happened at home, that is why we see the Connacht loss as just as big a loss as the Ospreys 
one.

“Rugby is about control and while the first points are going to be important it is more important we assert our dominance, our physicality.

“If we smash the first scrum, the first breakdown, have a good first carry and tackle you can be pretty sure we will put in a strong performance.

“We’ve lost two games in the league this season, one we should have won (Connacht) and one where we should at least have come away with a bonus point (Ospreys)

“In times like these you stick together.

“You make sure everyone has each other’s backs, we back each other up.”

Edinburgh haven’t won at Murrayfield in the league since December 20, 2013 albeit they did get a victory at Meggetland when the international pitch was being re-laid because of a parasitic infection.

“The issue last week was we didn’t have any experience anywhere,” said the back row, adding: “I was watching at home and most of the experienced players were in my living room.”



Scotland captain Grant Gilchrist is in line to return from injury as Edinburgh Rugby seek to quickly put a horror showing against Ospreys behind them when they face Scarlets at Murrayfield tomorrow.

But as Gilchrist, 24, gets ready to take a seasonal bow after undergoing surgery on an ankle problem, there is a question mark over experienced prop Wicus Blaauw, who is understood to have a leg injury. He came off the bench for an Edinburgh second string against Glasgow on Monday, having missed the start of the Pro12 season.

Second row Gilchrist, 24, went under the knife on returning from Scotland’s summer tour.

A return tomorrow for Gilchrist would be in keeping with Edinburgh coach Alan Solomons’ predicted return date. Others who played on Monday and could be involved include Roddy Grant and new signings Alan Dell and Brett Thompson.

Edinburgh haven't won at Murrayfield since December Shocked

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Post by reallybored Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:42 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Fife's injury wasn't meant to be too serious so hopefully he's back soon - was looking sharp in pre-season. Farndale is out long term injured and Hoyland has been away with the 7s - not sure if he still is.  No idea about Thompson.

Totally agree 100% on needing a good 13 - Laulala would be my ideal pick, but he's obviously not going to come along! A physical presence with a bit of pace too.
Another long-term injury or is this the same one as last season?

He may have had his faults but De Luca gave the back-line someone who could step and get past the defence to release wingers, that hasn't been replaced.  Even someone who runs a smart line, like Cairns used to do and Dunbar does so effectively for Glasgow, would be an improvement on the current crop.  Just looks like there's too many inside-centres and no genuine outside-centres.  Max Evans anyone?

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Post by RDW Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:33 pm

New injury - knee I think.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:43 pm

That is a bench to put the fear of god into the Scarlets (it puts the fear of god into me so why should the Scarlets be any different?)
This could turn into a pumpfest if the Scarlets get at least parity up front

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:01 pm

As Bill McLaren used to say "it is beautiful conditions for running rugby football". That's Edinburgh thumped again then as the Scarlets backs will have a field day. I hope I am wrong but I fear the worst

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Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:38 pm

It's quite windy though, other than that perfect conditons

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Post by jimbopip Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:45 pm

Edinburgh haven't won at Murrayfield since December Shocked

That explains it. I've lost count of the times I've settled down in front of the ogle-box to hear Hugh Dan's mellifluous tones, willing the MFL to put in a performance and win only to be left feeling slightly embarrassed and a little ashamed. Fecc sake it was like being single again! It's got so bad there's not even any fun in mocking the pampered jades of the east. See what I mean? A few months ago that comment would have been Jimbo trying to be zany and flaunt his familiarity with Marlowe ( just like most Glasgow fans... Elizabethan drama being very popular in Drumchapel) But now they play like pampered jades and it's just not good enough.
I'll make a prediction: Toonie will eschew the selection tombola in favour of the 3R's this season (Rested, Rotated and Returning from injury) and that will mostly occur against the weaker sides (such as Connacht). Want to bet he does it for at least one leg of the Annual Slaughter of the Effeminates? (I feel guilty even making that joke as it's not as funny now that it's too true).

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Post by GLove39 Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:38 pm




Woeful start. Turned over at the first ruck and maybe lost a try inside the first minute

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Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:39 pm

40s

Ffs.

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Post by Manky-Flanker Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:39 pm

picard

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Post by VinceWLB Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:39 pm

What a start picard

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Post by CraigS1874 Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:39 pm

I am glad I put money on Scarlets thumbsdown

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Post by VinceWLB Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:40 pm

How slow was Tonks here?!!

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Post by George Carlin Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:40 pm

Good thing Grant Gilchrist spent so much time banging on in the press this week about the importance of good defence.
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Post by VinceWLB Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:45 pm

Great scrummaging from Andress

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Post by Argybargy Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:48 pm

Mindless by Leonardi

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Post by VinceWLB Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:53 pm

Frak

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Post by GLove39 Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:53 pm

Ahhh, lose an attacking 5m line out, get penalised & lose a man picard

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Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:53 pm

So from attacking 5m lineout we're suddenly down to 14 men.

Appalling

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Post by Notch Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:53 pm

Go to the corner to try and run a pre-planned move. End up getting your own played sin binned. Only Edinburgh.
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Post by Totalflanker Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:54 pm

Why go to the tail - just had a good rolling maul from front/middle ball.

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Post by VinceWLB Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:55 pm

Should have gone for a shorter/safer lineout ffs

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Post by Argybargy Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:55 pm

Or taken the points....

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Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:56 pm

Don't often see yellows for taking a lineout man out in the air do you?

Especially first offence.

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Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:57 pm

Very lucky - Cuthbert absolutely skinned there

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Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:59 pm

Excellent defence Edinburgh

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Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:02 pm

Even the bounce of the ball is going for Scarlets now

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Post by Argybargy Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:05 pm

Well done Embra ... Really stuck in with a man down

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Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:06 pm

Turns out we do have a backbone!

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Post by tigertattie Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:08 pm

Why are the Scarlett's not playing in Scarlett?
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Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets 26th September - Page 2 Empty Re: Edinburgh Rugby v Scarlets 26th September

Post by RDW Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:08 pm

Teams most love playing against us - we love making life difficult for ourselves.

They said they've been working on lineouts all week!

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Post by VinceWLB Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:09 pm

Impressed by the pack so far.

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Post by Argybargy Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:09 pm

thumbsup

Excellent defence on maul ... Not sure if it was meant but good result

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