Coventry Wasps?

First topic message reminder :

apologies if already covered elsewhere, but a number of stories appearing indicating that the owners behind Wasps (who officially dropped the "London" from their name at the start of the season) are tabling a serious bid to take control of the Ricoh stadium in Coventry. Apparently local councillors (as mentioned in the "sub-walled" Times) are against the idea, but Wasps management are confident of getting Council approval. As part of the relocation plans, they intend to keep a training base in West London.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/11137539/Wasps-close-in-on-30m-deal-to-take-over-Ricoh-Arena-and-move-to-Coventry.html

Dreadful news for Wasps fans I'd imagine.

If I was a Bath fan I'd be worried, if the local council don't get on with it and let them build a new stadium at the Rec then I can see them moving the club away from the city.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/394/130/032/keep-wasps-rfc-inaround-london/

For Wasps, I know the Olympic Stadium was available for a while. They tried to entice Saracens at one point.
For Saints, the town has a few problems. Saints are a big revenue generator for the town. But the Gardens is on an undersized and overused road just off the town centre which is one of the main roads into Northampton. The traffic increase would be difficult. So only the redevelopment of the one end of the stadium was approved.

I think the problem with the Olympic stadium was that the club would still be tenants and that West Ham as primary tenants were unhappy with rugby being played there. Also you're back to 6,000 people rattling about in a 40,000 seater stadium and it would be in what would be thought of as Saracens catchment area.

The ideal solution would be for the nomadic London clubs to tie in with a lower league football club and jointly install a 4G pitch - this would give a surface that would be suitable for both sports and a reasonable sized stadium that suited both.

Hound of Harrow wrote:I'm not going to post a link to it (not allowed) but there is a superb 'letter to Wasps' on the unoffy site.

waspies.net

Part of me has just died.  I'll continue to support the team; but in front of the TV in a pub. However, most of my live games will be watching Ealing next season.

Feel for you mucker

Moving in December apparantly. Seems a bit soon (I assume they mean December this year)

Jeeze, a further sting in the tail, Wasps aren't hanging around, first game in Coventry to be played in December...

Does the RFU have a say in this?

TightHEAD wrote:Does the RFU have a say in this?

Professional Game Board (made up of RFU, PRL and RPA) have already agreed it. There is an issue over the academy boundaries as they are specified in the Participation Agreement, which is due for renewal in 2016. As LondonTiger said, they keep the same academy region for now at least.

More fool them then, Part of me hopes they fall flat on their faces.

I wonder if a London club will re-branded themselves as London Wasps to try and draw on those supporters who have been left without a team, a bit like the AFC Wimbledon effort.

Maybe Coventry Rugby club should move to Wycombe and rename themselves?

What a travesty. I'm not a Wasps fan but have watched them many times over the years. They've been on the proudest clubs in the world and their loss (the club as we know it is dead) will be sorely missed.

It was bad enough moving out of London, they shed a fair few fans doing that, but now moving almost 150 miles away is crazy. For them to move midseason is shameful. If they don't offer Season Ticket holders a full refund then the owners should be taken to court en masse.

Were it my team I'd rather drop to the Championship and rebuild than destroy the club's history and fanbase in one fell swoop.

Depends how you look at it.

Reminds me of the Batman movie where some 'victims' were offered the choice of death or exile.

Should we as rugby fans boycott watching our clubs away vs Wasps for the rest of the season?

HammerofThunor wrote:Moving in December apparantly. Seems a bit soon (I assume they mean December this year)

Aye Hammer - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29534483

Their first game at the Ricoh will either be the European Champions Cup fixture against French side Castres on Saturday, 13 December, or the following weekend's Premiership game against London Irish on Sunday, 21 December.

TightHEAD wrote:I wonder if a London club will re-branded themselves as London Wasps to try and draw on those supporters who have been left without a team, a bit like the AFC Wimbledon effort.

They could, but it's not going to make a top level team. AFC Wimbledon play in a stadium with a capacity of under 5000 people, if they move up the leagues any further they're going to run into the exact same problems that pushed the old club to MK. It's a horrible situation, but what exactly is the alternative?

So really London only has 3 pro rugby teams left - Harlequins, Saracens and London Scottish.

madmaccas wrote:It was bad enough moving out of London, they shed a fair few fans doing that, but now moving almost 150 miles away is crazy.

I agree with all your points but Wycombe to Coventry isn't 150 miles.

Can't believe how quickly this has all gone through, no real chance for the opposition to it to mobilise a proper campaign against it and all seems very dodgy.

Shame Coventry didnt try to build themselves up again. Didnt Neil Back originally play for them? And a few others like Jordan Crane i believe.

Is it too much competition for a side like Coventry to have the likes of Leicester etc nearby.

Does this mean the double header will include London Welsh?

They do seem to be following the old soccer format that Wimbledon started. I can't see an alternative if they want to be financially successful. It worked for the Dons. Are there sufficient fans out there for them, Tigers and Saints must pull in a fair number from that area already?

I am sort of surprised that there was no talk of sharing with The Dons, a new stadium, easy access from London (MK is on the Intercity routes) and a damn site closer to it's fan base than Coventry. Talk was that Saints would look to share if the council kept turning down their development plans, they still use the stadium for European games when they need the 15K capacity.

MK is 45 minute drive from Wycombe and only 35 -45 minutes by train from Central London if they were going to go anywhere, I thought that would be the area.

Still it will give us Saints fans another local derby and another bunch of fans to banter with.

The rugby fan in me doesn't like the thought of Wasps not being a London club.

See some comments here about this being for the owners to make a profit. Isn't it more a case of the owners scrambling to make sure they aren't making a loss? Or are the current fan base hardcore enough of a supporter base to accept cut back in player salaries, reduced squad quality and competing in a lower division?

Will they be refunding ST who paid to attend games in London in good faith pre-season for all the games that will move to Coventry from December? I presume there are plenty of Wasp STs who won't be able to make the journey up regularly for home games for the second half of the season.

Is there anything in this of the board using wasps to get hold of the Ricoh and its land?

Either way its utterly shocking they are moving....its becoming like American Football...just franchises moving to whichever city wants them.

On the other hand...Ealing or whoever the next club is will see a big increase in their gate from December.

GeordieFalcon wrote:On the other hand...Ealing or whoever the next club is will see a big increase in their gate from December.

If I was CEO of Ealing, I would be offering Wasps ST ticket holders free access for the second half of the season and/or a discount for next year. The additional beer and food would probably pay for it.

Good thinking Irish L.

Is Ealing the nearest club?

But yes it makes total sense.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Shame Coventry didnt try to build themselves up again. Didnt Neil Back originally play for them? And a few others like Jordan Crane i believe.

Backy is a Coventry lad, but was at Nottingham first. Not sure Crane had any Coventry links, a West Midlands lad I think and played for Leeds.

Ah thanks for that LT

Jelly:

No it isn't, but it is almost 150 miles from Sudbury their original home up until the 90's. So a lot of lifelong local fans have already been forced to travel a pretty long distance to High Wycombe as it is, this is just silly now.

Not surprised the RFU/PRL let this go through, first the money grubbing over the European Cup and now moves like this - can't believe I'm saying it but I miss the amateur days!

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Shame Coventry didnt try to build themselves up again. Didnt Neil Back originally play for them? And a few others like Jordan Crane i believe.

Backy is a Coventry lad, but was at Nottingham first. Not sure Crane had any Coventry links, a West Midlands lad I think and played for Leeds.

Danny Grewcock was a Coventry player I think as well.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is there anything in this of the board using wasps to get hold of the Ricoh and its land?

Either way its utterly shocking they are moving....its becoming like American Football...just franchises moving to whichever city wants them.

On the other hand...Ealing or whoever the next club is will see a big increase in their gate from December.

Lets put it this way, its a bit of a steal at that price and way below what it cost to build.

I know a number of Londoner Wasps fans and for them this is it. I reckon long term Quins will see a rise in followers too, kids will want to see top tier rugby and if you live in west London you are bound to end up there.

Bromsgrove I think.

Is there any reason why the board would need to use Wasps to get the stadium and land? If they could raise £30M (or whatever they needed) why not just do it? I agree that they're trying to give Wasps the stable platform need to run safely. Some fans may well have preferred to do without the extra money and take their chances in the lower leagues. Not sure if they would ever had returned though.

It's at times like this that I wonder whether a change in the pro structure in England needs reviewing. Not regional nonsense, but pro-licenses for round 20 teams. Don't know. I like the idea of someone building to reach a sustainable position (a la Exeter) but how realistic is it?

I agree that they're trying to give Wasps the stable platform need to run safely.

Is going to a place where your fans cant follow, in an Area where your rivals are Leicester, Northamptopn, Coventry, Nottingham etc etc a safe option...they may struggle to get fans.

And a few hundred fans sitting in a 32000 stadium is awfully eerie....

PenfroPete wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Moving in December apparantly. Seems a bit soon (I assume they mean December this year)

Aye Hammer - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29534483

Their first game at the Ricoh will either be the European Champions Cup fixture against French side Castres on Saturday, 13 December, or the following weekend's Premiership game against London Irish on Sunday, 21 December.

I wonder how many Castres fans are now trying to cancel hotel reservations and find new hotels?

Seems a very strange move, can understand them wanting their own ground and wanting to secure their future but to completely moves cities is very un rugby like and shows no loyalty to the fans.

Surely somewhere on the south side of london or further out to the south east could have been found where there is no premiership rugby based. Tap into a new market there.

There is already a lot of premiership teams based in the midlands so will be interesting to see if fans from that area do start supporting Wasps or if people have already got ties with teams originally in that area!

Andy Goode has labelled social media "abusers" of the club's £30 million move to Coventry's Ricoh Arena as "not real fans".

Maybe not Andy, but some of them might be season ticket holders!

On the positive side at least they're not the LSE rugby team

Irish Londoner wrote:On the positive side at least they're not the LSE rugby team

Thats true!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

I agree that they're trying to give Wasps the stable platform need to run safely.

Is going to a place where your fans cant follow, in an Area where your rivals are Leicester, Northamptopn, Coventry, Nottingham etc etc a safe option...they may struggle to get fans.

And a few hundred fans sitting in a 32000 stadium is awfully eerie....

But they might get decent away support. I'm not sure if it will work out but I think their motives are pure. They might well be looking to completely change their fan group, but with the academy setup even then they won't have the 'local' lads playing for the team, it'll dirty southerners. Saints fans love the fact Lawes was a local boy from down the road, same with the Wallers, etc. It does make a difference.

I do wonder whether London has the interest to support the number of pro clubs it's supposed to. This may well help Quins in the long run (and maybe even Saracens, Irish and the other 'London' teams. Could Welsh be given the Oxfordshire area for academy?

Aren't QPR trying to get out for Loftus Road? Buying that would have surely been cheaper and given them a stadium they could generate an atmosphere in. Plus it would be sort of a return to home.

doctor_grey wrote:

GLove39 wrote:BREAKING - Coventry council unanimously agree to sell the Ricoh Arena to @WaspsRugby. They will be given a 250-year lease - via ESPN

Wow, that's really long.  I wonder if Joe Simpson will have grown hair on his head by then.  

I wonder if he'd have learned how to pass?

HammerofThunor wrote:It's at times like this that I wonder whether a change in the pro structure in England needs reviewing. Not regional nonsense, but pro-licenses for round 20 teams. Don't know. I like the idea of someone building to reach a sustainable position (a la Exeter) but how realistic is it?

HammerofThunor wrote:I do wonder whether London has the interest to support the number of pro clubs it's supposed to.

Wasps' problem isn't so much building a fanbase as building a stadium though. I'm sure they'd rather stay in London, but how many realistic options are there for that?

There is a 'club announced' Q&A bit on Wasps' website. "We haven't taken this decision lightly" blah, blah. "We realise this move will be unsettling for our fans, but..." waffle, waffle.

The club have promised free coach travel from HW and W. London, but this appears to be for the remainder of this season only. A number of other comments, such as STHs can have their season tickets refunded pro rata for the remainder of the season. This leads me to believe that the Castres or LI game will be the first of quite a few they intend to hold in Coventry this season.

At least HW has a handful of decent pubs serving some good real ales. The area around the Ricoh is a pub desert, and the city has never been known as a hotbed of real ale. One of my prerequisites for a quality rugby day is enjoying a decent pint before and after a game.

And if anyone mentions M&B Brew XI....feck, what a godawful beer that is!

Hound, unfortunately for the STH, I'd reckon that any home fixture that the Ricoh is available for (there will be clashes between Coventry City fixtures and the Wasps fixtures surely as this wouldn't have been factored in at the time) will get moved to the Ricoh. They'll think (in their infinite wisdom) that they might as well start having as many games at their new 'home' as possible to establish their presence and footprint over the course of this season.

As an aside, I find it quite perplexing that the football team will have Primacy of Tenure when arranging match fixtures. When you own your own stadium, you'd expect to get first refusal on match days.

Cumbrian wrote:As an aside, I find it quite perplexing that the football team will have Primacy of Tenure when arranging match fixtures.  When you own your own stadium, you'd expect to get first refusal on match days.

I imagine they already have an agreement to have Primary of Tenure so any change of control would have to take that into account.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Good thinking Irish L.

Is Ealing the nearest club?

But yes it makes total sense.

GF - there are already around a dozen Wasps fans who go to Ealing when Wasps are playing a fair distance away, or if Wasps are playing on Sunday (usually the case these days).

Ealing used to play on the other side of Horsenden Hill from Wasps' old Sudbury home, and there is a history of fans watching both teams.

I am a STH at both clubs.

I can understand Wasps wanting to secure revenue streams from sources other than a single benefactor. It's a shame they have chosen to do this miles away from their fan base, not to mention a significant increase in travelling costs for those fans who want to continue supporting the team 'live' after this season.

After this season?

Are you being compensated for travelling this season then Hound? Feel sorry for all you Wasps fans.

Free transport is supposed to be put on.

HammerofThunor wrote:Free transport is supposed to be put on.

Only until the end of this season, reading the blurb on the website.

Even with free transport put on, this move is very disrespectful to people who have upfront for a season ticket on the basis they were playing in one part of the country. It just makes me sad to see how its panning out.

HammerofThunor wrote:Free transport is supposed to be put on.

Like the Arms Park/Cardiff City Stadium shuttle bus! 80 miles each way though is a bit much.
I jest of course. Can't believe this is actually happening. Good rain soaked memories of Adams Park too.

Hound of Harrow wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Free transport is supposed to be put on.

Only until the end of this season, reading the blurb on the website.

Yeah, sorry, I was answering Risca Rev about compensation for travel this season. If they're serious about keeping fans (and to be honest I don't really see how they can be with such a move) they need to sort out travel for a years.