Andre Ward

Major rumours in the US about Andre Ward's retirement being close what do you make of this if it happens, personally id think it would be a massive shame and a huge waste if he were to retire

I don't think he will retire. Seems a lot of this stemed from a twitter post which was vague to say the least.

As grim as it sounds I actually think Goosen's passing will be a good thing for the career of Ward moving forwards as can't see the same fuss being made over contracts etc.

Although if he were to retire then it would be a shame as after Floyd and Rigo he is probably the most talented boxer on the planet. Although I do worry that he may lose a step with all the inactivity.

Ward is still signed to Goossen's company, I think. I don't think he will retire, but I do think his career is going to be severely damaged by these disputes. He is losing millions in earnings and probably the same in lawyer costs.

It's been a pretty bleak 18 months or so for Ward, but I'd have a hard time believing that the road is so bad that his only option would be to jack it all in. If this rumour turned out to be true then it'd be a terrible waste of what could have been a really outstanding career, and it'd also be a waste of a great talent - but I can't see it happening, personally. God only knows how the landscape of his affairs looks now in light of Goossen's passing, mind you.

I read somewhere that he is still contracted to Goossen's company, so with that said it'll be much the same, Chris. What the heck was he thinking when he signed that contract? Wasn't it a decade long or so? Problem he has now is he has sued Goossen so many times, his family are probably not inclined to bury the hatchet and move forward. They are counter suing, aren't they?

If anything the situation will probably make it more likely for him to continue boxing once it gets sorted out. As Sean said this has probably cost him a fortune in legal expenses and loss of earnings so will need a few big fights for the money.

Although that being said I guess retirement would be an easy way of getting out of the contract maybe hoping it would be void and can make a comeback later on.

Achieved a lot, but relevant to his talents underachieved.

Made some bad choices and as a result won't go down as the ATG he should have.

Could've cleaned up the SMW and LHW divisions, been clear #1 in both divisions and maybe even picked up a strap at CW. Added to his Olympic gold he could've been top20 ATG.

But now he goes down as a very, very good also-ran.

He already cleaned up super middleweight.

Perhaps it's a way to terminate his contract?

I don't think retirement thing will work. If it were that simple he'd have done it already and so would other fighters

He could've done even more an SMW though, if he wanted to see out his contact there, e.g. take out a couple fo upstarts like GG and JdG.

Then clean up LHW in 5 fights, or less.

DEVAFKUCU

Whatever happens legacy wise he can be mentioned along with Jones Jnr, Toney, and Calzaghe as 1 of the best SM ever.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Achieved a lot, but relevant to his talents underachieved.  

Made some bad choices and as a result won't go down as the ATG he should have.

Could've cleaned up the SMW and LHW divisions, been clear #1 in both divisions and maybe even picked up a strap at CW.  Added to his Olympic gold he could've been top20 ATG.

But now he goes down as a very, very good also-ran.

Not so sure, never seemed in a rush to fight at lhw, and since his inactivity there aren't any new names at smw so he still ranks number 1 there. The only "name" in the div he didn't face was bute, through no fault of his own, who time has proved wasn't top level.

Is there a great deal for him to come back for? I don't see froch or chavez mentioning him at smw, who are the biggest money draws in the division (rightly or wrongly) Similarly none of the lhw's are banging his door down (pray to god i never see him in the ring with hopkins, what a borefest!) Similarly golovkin doesnt seem in a rush to fight him. Outside of those is there a risk/reward ratio that would appeal?

Money. Ward needs to fight for money, like anybody else. Also, there are several huge fights for him down the line at LH. Kovalev, Korobov, Stevenson. All big fights

He did clean up Supermiddle..........

I don't think he'll retire. If he does though, I can't see it lasting.

Now if a fighter retires at 30, it's considered early. Before George Foreman came back and popularized fighting into your late 30's and early 40's, no one would have given it much thought about Ward retiring at 30.

Foreman changed everything and mainly for the worst...

Long said the worst thing to happen to Boxing was Foreman beating Moorer...

Convinced too many oldies they have something to offer..

I think LH has probably eclipsed SMW as the big guy division. Kovalev, Hopkins, Pascal, Stevenson, Korobov.

I think you're right...........and good that a bonafide division has eclipsed it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He did clean up Supermiddle..........

Dirrell??

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He did clean up Supermiddle..........

Dirrell??

LOL! That's a joke, right?

Oh come on........FFS at one stage Ward had beaten every other champion....Froch beat Dirrell !!

Leonard never beat Roger stafford......So he didn't clean up welter ???

hazharrison wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He did clean up Supermiddle..........

Dirrell??

LOL! That's a joke, right?

Believe me Haz...He isn't joking !!

hazharrison wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He did clean up Supermiddle..........

Dirrell??

LOL! That's a joke, right?

If I could pick one guy at SMW to beat him, I would have pinned my hopes on Dirrell.

Unfortunately Andre lost his appetite for boxing. Although not quite the way people think he did

I pinned my hopes on Biggs beating Tyson..

Korobov? Mean Beterbiev?

Yes. Yes. These Drago-types all look the same to me after five pm.

Running scared of Eubank junior. Always said ward was a p*ssy

Bet you've been in a few "Wards" in your time....

With that lip of yours..

Its nigh on impossible to fight everyone, though the super 6 helped the super middles get close to it, so You can't say he didn't clean up.

That said, dirrell was the only one with the style I thought could really trouble him so it's a shame that fight never happened. Whether dirrell had it between the ears is another matter.

Not our milkyboy. His lip is ably backed up by the fact that he is a coward... I mean fleet of foot.

Ward has cleaned up SM. This is a fact. If he continues, he should go to LH. He doesn't seem to want to, but that is where the intriguing fights for him are. If only he could sort out his legal woes.

It's interesting, Sean - there's an interview with Ward taken at the back end of last year (a couple of weeks before the Rodriguez fight) where he said that he'd actually been wanting to move up to Light-Heavyweight for a while, but that it's Virgil Hunter who has been saying no to the idea as he wants Ward to stay at 168 for a little bit longer. Ward said that if it had been up to him, he'd have gone up to Light-Heavy right after he'd won the Super Six tournament, but he trusts Hunter's judgement so much that he didn't question it when he said he'd prefer to wait.

He also said that he sees himself being a Light-Heavyweight "in a couple of years." So if he does fight on, the latest from the horse's mouth seems to be that he will go looking for Kovalev, Stevenson etc soon enough.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Oh come on........FFS at one stage Ward had beaten every other champion....Froch beat Dirrell !!

Leonard never beat Roger stafford......So he didn't clean up welter ???

Tyson never fought Adilson Rodriguez....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Bet you've been in a few "Wards" in your time....

With that lip of yours..

Bet you've been in a few wards too truss, down the oyster and a few smiths, a few jones', a few brown's etc.

kingraf wrote:Not our milkyboy. His lip is ably backed up by the fact that he is a coward... I mean fleet of foot.

Discretion is the better part of valour, raf. Which makes my fleetness of foot very courageous.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Oh come on........FFS at one stage Ward had beaten every other champion....Froch beat Dirrell !!

Leonard never beat Roger stafford......So he didn't clean up welter ???

Was only being semi-serious.

Been no doubt, even since S6 ended, that Ward was numero uno and divisional Kingpin. Was just saying there are still some fights out there that could have enhanced his legacy even further, not just beating the top 1 or 2 guys, but beating the whole top10 rostrum, racking up numerous world title defences in the process.

My point being, he's achieved a comendable amount, but relative to his talents/ability he's short-changed himself/his career - he could've done so much MORE.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Oh come on........FFS at one stage Ward had beaten every other champion....Froch beat Dirrell !!

Leonard never beat Roger stafford......So he didn't clean up welter ???

Was only being semi-serious.

Been no doubt, even since S6 ended, that Ward was numero uno and divisional Kingpin.  Was just saying there are still some fights out there that could have enhanced his legacy even further, not just beating the top 1 or 2 guys, but beating the whole top10 rostrum, racking up numerous world title defences in the process.

Semi-seriously......WTF !!!!

No. .. Your argument sucked and now you are backtracking...

Holyfield never beat McCrory so he didn't clean out cruiser..

Give us a kiss..

Wonder if the Jamaican lady from Brixton would have recognised Ward in the hairdressers?
To be fair he probably wouldn't have made a massive issue of it either.
Excellent talented boxer but will only be remembered by proper boxing fans and people from Oakland.

Sorry Trussy, there's only so far I can dumb something down until you may be able to understand it.

I've never question him being #1, but that doesn't mean there isn't other guys he could've fought (and beaten) that would've enhanced his legacy (e.g. defences to Dirrell a few years ago and GG, JdG and a Froch rematch in UK around now). His record would look amazing.

Chuck in 10 fights at LHW (winning and defending titles) and he would genuinely go down as a great with a record to match his talent/ability.

If retires right now though, he will have under-achieved.

Also, I realise English isn't your first language, but try re-reading the below:

Could've cleaned up the SMW and LHW divisions

This is not a mutually exclusive preposition, it doesn't not say that he has not achieved one or other of the feats.

Are you being semi-serious ???

Granted that if he had some significant wins at LH then his resume would look a lot better.
But don't see how having 2 Froch victims on his record will do much for him, especially how he convincingly beat Froch.

I agree with Toppy here. Ward has cleaned out Super-Middleweight, but that doesn't mean he can't still improve his record (or couldn't have, if we're believing the retirement rumours) further. Drawing comparisons between a possible Ward-Dirrell fight and a Leonard-Stafford / Holyfield-McCrory fight doesn't really make sense. A lot of people think that Dirrell could have been an interesting fight for Ward. Nobody would have ever said the same about Stafford or McCrory when it came to Leonard or Holyfield respectively.

I don't think Dirrell would have been (or will be if he ever comes back properly) a massive legacy booster to Ward by any means, and I don't think Toppy is arguing that, either. But styles make fights, and one quibble people have had so far with Ward is that he's yet to face a really fast, tricky fighter who has as much natural speed and athleticism as he does.

Kessler, Bika, Abraham and Froch are all tough, strong guys and proven enough punchers, but had a decent style for Ward to look good against and none of them had Dirrell's basic speed. Likewise, Dawson was technically sound, more so than the aforementioned guys, but wasn't able to make Ward chase or miss. Ward's invariably been quicker in both hand and foot than his opponents so far so it's only natural that people are interested in seeing him in a fight where that isn't the case, and wondering how he'd adapt etc.

Anyway, that's at 168 and as ol' Bernard has recently put it, in the last year or two Light-Heavyweight has overtaken Super-Middleweight as "the prettiest girl in town," so if you forget a Dirrell fight at the lower weight there'd still be a massive sense of disappointment and wondering about Ward's career if he were to walk away now. If he retired his record would still show him to be an exceptional fighter, but I don't see how anyone would class it as anything other than a huge 'what if?' story and view him as anything other than an underachiever because of it.

Stop sucking up to your fanboy..Chris

Every boxer has what If stories...

Leonard-Pryor...Hagler- Spinks..

Sanchez left plenty..

I said he cleaned up 168...Toppy wrote "Andre Dirrell"

End of..

If you hadn't told the guys down the Oyster about how I got beat up by that angry mob of girls I wouldn't have to suck up to Toppy so much, Truss.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Stop sucking up to your fanboy..Chris

Every boxer has what If stories...

Leonard-Pryor...Hagler- Spinks..

Sanchez left plenty..

I said he cleaned up 168...Toppy wrote "Andre Dirrell"

End of..

Let's try putting this in a language you might understand.

Floyd has been undisputed divisional #1 for the best part of 5 years now, right? (i.e. since he returned from retirement)

Ergo, on the basis that that position couldn't have changed (can't get higher than #1), has every fight he's had since just been 'filler' and not added anything to his legacy?

Suck up to someone more worthy..Chris.

Like Waingro...

88Chris05 wrote:I agree with Toppy here. Ward has cleaned out Super-Middleweight, but that doesn't mean he can't still improve his record (or couldn't have, if we're believing the retirement rumours) further. Drawing comparisons between a possible Ward-Dirrell fight and a Leonard-Stafford / Holyfield-McCrory fight doesn't really make sense. A lot of people think that Dirrell could have been an interesting fight for Ward. Nobody would have ever said the same about Stafford or McCrory when it came to Leonard or Holyfield respectively.

I don't think Dirrell would have been (or will be if he ever comes back properly) a massive legacy booster to Ward by any means, and I don't think Toppy is arguing that, either. But styles make fights, and one quibble people have had so far with Ward is that he's yet to face a really fast, tricky fighter who has as much natural speed and athleticism as he does.

Kessler, Bika, Abraham and Froch are all tough, strong guys and proven enough punchers, but had a decent style for Ward to look good against and none of them had Dirrell's basic speed. Likewise, Dawson was technically sound, more so than the aforementioned guys, but wasn't able to make Ward chase or miss. Ward's invariably been quicker in both hand and foot than his opponents so far so it's only natural that people are interested in seeing him in a fight where that isn't the case, and wondering how he'd adapt etc.

Anyway, that's at 168 and as ol' Bernard has recently put it, in the last year or two Light-Heavyweight has overtaken Super-Middleweight as "the prettiest girl in town," so if you forget a Dirrell fight at the lower weight there'd still be a massive sense of disappointment and wondering about Ward's career if he were to walk away now. If he retired his record would still show him to be an exceptional fighter, but I don't see how anyone would class it as anything other than a huge 'what if?' story and view him as anything other than an underachiever because of it.

+1

88Chris05 wrote:I agree with Toppy here. Ward has cleaned out Super-Middleweight, but that doesn't mean he can't still improve his record (or couldn't have, if we're believing the retirement rumours) further. Drawing comparisons between a possible Ward-Dirrell fight and a Leonard-Stafford / Holyfield-McCrory fight doesn't really make sense. A lot of people think that Dirrell could have been an interesting fight for Ward. Nobody would have ever said the same about Stafford or McCrory when it came to Leonard or Holyfield respectively.

I don't think Dirrell would have been (or will be if he ever comes back properly) a massive legacy booster to Ward by any means, and I don't think Toppy is arguing that, either. But styles make fights, and one quibble people have had so far with Ward is that he's yet to face a really fast, tricky fighter who has as much natural speed and athleticism as he does.

Kessler, Bika, Abraham and Froch are all tough, strong guys and proven enough punchers, but had a decent style for Ward to look good against and none of them had Dirrell's basic speed. Likewise, Dawson was technically sound, more so than the aforementioned guys, but wasn't able to make Ward chase or miss. Ward's invariably been quicker in both hand and foot than his opponents so far so it's only natural that people are interested in seeing him in a fight where that isn't the case, and wondering how he'd adapt etc.

Anyway, that's at 168 and as ol' Bernard has recently put it, in the last year or two Light-Heavyweight has overtaken Super-Middleweight as "the prettiest girl in town," so if you forget a Dirrell fight at the lower weight there'd still be a massive sense of disappointment and wondering about Ward's career if he were to walk away now. If he retired his record would still show him to be an exceptional fighter, but I don't see how anyone would class it as anything other than a huge 'what if?' story and view him as anything other than an underachiever because of it.

Although I think most would make Ward a clear favourite in a Dirrell fight that was definitely the one that would have cemented his place as not just the man at super middle but as a proven all-rounder ( based on the attributes Direll brings that you have already mentioned ).  Once Bute was taken out of the picture there was only one man I suspected might be able to push Ward, it's a real shame his career stalled.  If he can prove himself in 2015 then I'd still love to see that fight.  I would like to see Ward v Groves down the line but I'm not sure if beating Groves would get Ward any further recognition at the moment.