London Welsh to possibly sue the premiership??

First topic message reminder :

Does anyone think they would get anywhere??

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,3823_9527300,00.html

it is a set of rules designed to take care of its members. which, when LW disappear back down to the Championship, it clearly will be.

how is it hypocritical to say that the PRL looks after its own? as it did in Europe so it is doing in the Jeff. No-one said it was fair. it is what it is. But suing to get the share arrangements of a private organisation changed is very different from suing to gain entry based on ground eligibility criteria which can be challenged. not a cats chance in hell that LW will get to stay in the top tier. because they are pants. so what are they going to be suing for? they wont get compensation. and they wont get to stay in the top tier. its very different from when they went to court to gain entry.

the NFL doesnt have to worry about teams that arent in it. and likewise the PRL doesnt have to worry about representing the interests of Championship teams, because....they have nothing to do with Championship teams.

of course its not fair on Championship teams. but then the RFU need to allow the PRL to represent all professional rugby teams if they want that to change. something that has been proposed already i believe.

HammerofThunor wrote:Has anyone defended it as fair? Pretty much everyone has said that it is unfair. Some have given the reasons why it's the case.

Quite a few comments about Welsh being whingers (mostly from how they came up last year).

Quins,

LW will get nowhere by suing. the rules were clearly understood and transparent to all who run team in Jeff and Championship.

You mean like how they knew the minimum entry criteria for the Premiership a few years ago? I'm pretty sure they got those clearly understood and transparent rules changed.

they sued to get entry. by having the ground criteria changed. what will they be suing for this time? extra money? exeter's survival in the top tier, and London Welsh's clearly extremely flukey playoff win, will put the lie to any claims that it is the lack of AP payment that is causing them to fail. oh yeah, that and having the largest non-playing staff in the AP and bringing in 25 new players in the offseason.

I agree with LT's view that the Championship should be better funded by the RFU. Incredibly after asking the Championship clubs to go fully pro they finally got a sponsor (after several years of pressure from the clubs) for the league last season in Greene King. Who did have a pretty good real ale tent at the 'London DH' at Allianz Park at the start of last season.

But the RFU, rather than add the £500k that GK stumped up to funding the teams, they effectively trousered the dough and kept the funding the same as the previous season.

I'm not sure how much of the Sky TV money sees its way to the clubs either.

Admittedly £500k wouldn't go far amongst 12 clubs but they need all the money they can get.

If a challenge to the current payment regime is successful then fair play to LW for fighting their corner. Albeit it is coming across as a whinge given their atrocious start to the season.

One last thing. While promotion and relegation still exist The Championship clubs need to lobby the RFU to have the league, plays offs and all, sorted by the end of May. This would enable the promoted team to plan recruitment better and allow them a decent close season break.

Hound of Harrow wrote:I agree with LT's view that the Championship should be better funded by the RFU. Incredibly after asking the Championship clubs to go fully pro they finally got a sponsor (after several years of pressure from the clubs) for the league last season in Greene King. Who did have a pretty good real ale tent at the 'London DH' at Allianz Park at the start of last season.

But the RFU, rather than add the £500k that GK stumped up to funding the teams, they effectively trousered the dough and kept the funding the same as the previous season.

I'm not sure how much of the Sky TV money sees its way to the clubs either.

Admittedly £500k wouldn't go far amongst 12 clubs but they need all the money they can get.

If a challenge to the current payment regime is successful then fair play to LW for fighting their corner. Albeit it is coming across as a whinge given their atrocious start to the season.

One last thing. While promotion and relegation still exist The Championship clubs need to lobby the RFU to have the league, plays offs and all, sorted by the end of May. This would enable the promoted team to plan recruitment better and allow them a decent close season break.

If the league runs straight through from September, promotion could be decided by March, with a couple of spare weekends. End the season with a single block of the B&I Cup or some other secondary competition.

quinsforever wrote:they sued to get entry. by having the ground criteria changed. what will they be suing for this time? extra money? exeter's survival in the top tier, and London Welsh's clearly extremely flukey playoff win, will put the lie to any claims that it is the lack of AP payment that is causing them to fail. oh yeah, that and having the largest non-playing staff in the AP and bringing in 25 new players in the offseason.

They don't to show that they failed this season because they got more money. They just need to show that the distribution of finances is uncompetitive. Are the payments for the league that year? Or are they an investment payout? It's clearly anti-competition isn't it? Effectively a promoted team would need to do better with less central finance than another team in the league to stay up. No idea if they'd be successful but a think it's rather strange to think they had no chance.

LW are confusing two things:

1) the amount that teams get for playing in the league
2) the amount the owners of the league receive

They are not entitled to any money as owners because they are not shareholders. If you are not shareholders you cannot expect a share of the profits. Are LW propsing to buy the valuable shareholdings of the teams who took the risk of setting up the league or do they want it for free?

Hound of Harrow wrote:
One last thing. While promotion and relegation still exist The Championship clubs need to lobby the RFU to have the league, plays offs and all, sorted by the end of May. This would enable the promoted team to plan recruitment better and allow them a decent close season break.

Or just promote Bristol!!

Hound of Harrow wrote:
One last thing. While promotion and relegation still exist The Championship clubs need to lobby the RFU to have the league, plays offs and all, sorted by the end of May. This would enable the promoted team to plan recruitment better and allow them a decent close season break.

Promote the team that finishes top in the regular season and then award the Championship to the play-off winner. The Championship is not so strong that the fourth placed team can be promoted.

This is what the AP are doing with European comp with seeding going with regular season places not based on play-offs.

Bristol have lost out twice in recent seasons due to that rediculous play off system which should be scrapped....just bloody well promote them.

Even as a genuine challenger to us next season i would rather they were up than LW who seem to spit their dummy out and threaten to sue go to court etc as soon as they feel aggrieved.

I really dont think LW are doing themselves any favours in the popularity stakes when had they done things right they could have been very popular.

Bristol have also benefited from the bonus point system which is heavily dependent on when you play particular teams. London Welsh won the same number of games as Bristol last year. They beat Bristol twice and lost once (their winning margin in the league was much bigger than their losing margin).

LW had defensive issues last season. They waited until last week to do anything about it. There in lies a major part of their problems. That and the mass influx of players, No sign of a lack of cash there.

They got promoted on the back of a good set piece and good counter attacking play. Now they are playing stronger packs and teams that don't make the errors to offer those counter attacking chances.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
They got promoted on the back of a good set piece and good counter attacking play. Now they are playing stronger packs and teams that don't make the errors to offer those counter attacking chances.

But there's kinda no shock value in that idea of what happens when the bottom joins the top, but only finds that they're back at another version of the bottom, and the top is still miles off  The auld conundrum.  Is it better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven?

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:From The Rugby Paper:

Aviva Premiership payments for July 1 – Sept 1 2014

More than £1m: Gloucester, Newcastle, London Irish and Sale
Circa £900,000: Wasps, Exeter
Between £820-£880,000: Harlequins, Leicester, Saracens and Bath
Circa £770,000: Northampton
Circa; £350,000: London Welsh

Outside Premiership

Circa £900,000: Worcester
Circa: £650,000: Bristol


http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/19054/exclusive-london-welsh-may-sue-premiership-rugby-over-giant-gap-in-funding/

Perhaps the Welshies should look at the lowest paid club after them, they are the current Premiereship Champions. It just shows that if you get it right, money is not everything. Even Worcester got substantially more than Saints; for being relegated.

That presumably includes the academy player bonus as well.

Saints don't have the biggest squad but they have a sound business plan and a squad built around their game plan. Other than North they haven't gone in with big money on players. In fact they've lost more big names than they've signed.