How was it for you? Make your H Cup predictions after Round 2

So after Round 2 of the Heino, who's feeling chuffed about their team, who's down in their boots, and who's secretly plotting revenge in the December double-headers?

Glasgow are on 9 points leading Pool 4, followed by Munster, Racing, Toulon and Harlequins as the other group leaders - all with 2 wins out of 2 and 8 points. Toulouse and Leinster have also managed to extract two wins, although the Frenchmen accomplished it with a lot more style.

Is the writing on the wall already for some of the teams? Treviso haven't managed to bag even a losing bonus point, Bath aren't much better with just a single point in the bag in Pool 4, they would have to overhaul Toulouse (8) and Glasgow (9). Montpellier, perhaps might already have given up the ghost, and give Bath the prospect of earning 8 points during December whilst Glasgow and Toulouse run each other ragged.

Racing, Northampton and Ospreys might still have a big of a dogfight to go, and things won't get settled until the final round in January - Treviso will be in their sights for gaining maximum points with Saints licking their lips in December for a double helping of Italian stuffing.

Toulon are where they want to be albeit without the comfort of any try bonus points from their matches against Scarlets and Ulster. The double header with Leicester will sort out the men from the boys. Methinks, Neil Doak, may be already quietly planning a ramping up on the Pro12 title given Ulster have their double against second-placed Scarlets who may be dreaming of nicking a best runners-up spot.

Harlequins and Leinster are on equal 8 points and head into their double header with either a sharing of the spoils or a clear group winner emerging from the encounter - it could be all over in Pool 2 by Christmas.

Lastly, Pool 1 with the heavyweight group of Munster, Saracens and Clermont, with Sale Sharks adding less bite and more chum to the proceedings after their mauling by Clermont in round 2. Munster will have their hands full with the Frenchmen, whilst Saracens will be looking to snack on some Sale sandwich in their pre-Christmas dinner. If Munster and Clermont can cancel each other out, leaving them on 12 and 10 points respectively, Sarries will be hoping to sneak to the top of the group, setting up a cracking set of final round matches in January.

On the other hand, it all could be completely different come December 15th.

Feel free to disagree, quarrel, bicker, protest even - just don't be silent.

Those teams with two wins are in the driving seats for the q/f. Glasgow looking good on 9 points with an away win in France under their belts but the Toulouse games will be huge. I do hope montpellier don't give bath easy points. Toulon looking ominously good and Quins might be a team to watch

Clermont, Leinster, Toulon, Toulouse & Northampton to win their pools.

Racing Metro, Harlequins and Glasgow/Saracens as the best runners-up

You can bet your house on Saints getting putting a 100 points past Treviso in both of their fixtures. It will be more difficult for Ospreys out in Italy to come away with 5 points, the teams are so familiar with each other it might not be that straightforward. Racing came away with just the 4 points, so for me this puts their Welsh and English rivals in the driving seat. Best runner up will come from this pool.

I can't see Scarlets topping their pool, but to do so I think they'd have to win every remaining game and hope Toulon lose to Tigers in Welford road. Bonus points are vital in this pool and I see Toulon getting the most. Mathematically, Tigers are also still in it.

I'm just wondering how long it will be for a Glasgow win to no longer generate 'shock win' headlines.

They won???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SecretFly wrote:They won???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

clermont, quins, toulon, toulouse, saints to top groups
best runner up qualifiers in order: racing metro, glasgow, leinster

very very hard to look past toulon and clermont to be nailed on semi finalists again

big casualties from group 1 to be sarries and munster.

IanBru wrote:I'm just wondering how long it will be for a Glasgow win to no longer generate 'shock win' headlines.

You mean like that one

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Gillingham-Underdogs-triumph-great-sport/story-12192896-detail/story.html

On another note, my forecasts are :
Pool Winners (from the more likely to the pure guess work): Leinster, Toulon, Northampton, Glasgow and possibly Clermont/Saracens
2nd bests: HQuins, 2loose, Munster

quinsforever wrote:clermont, quins, toulon, toulouse, saints to top groups
best runner up qualifiers in order: racing metro, glasgow, leinster

very very hard to look past toulon and clermont to be nailed on semi finalists again

big casualties from group 1 to be sarries and munster.

So deluded.

before tonights performance i would have agreed. leinster were poor and quins were really rather good today. quins are already to of the table so its really just about the double header. no-one is going to be intimidated based on this season's leinster. especially just before the 6Ns.

either way i think the second placed team in that group is going to need every possible point to scrape through on points.

Leinster will get better. They have great players out injured some of whom will be coming back and others who are gaining experience and will improve.

The Saint wrote:

quinsforever wrote:clermont, quins, toulon, toulouse, saints to top groups
best runner up qualifiers in order: racing metro, glasgow, leinster

very very hard to look past toulon and clermont to be nailed on semi finalists again

big casualties from group 1 to be sarries and munster.

So deluded.

Well, we are two from 2, travel very very well to France with Wasps at home and Leinster still nowhere near 50% of their potential. I think it's fair to say we are no certainty to top the group, neither could any marginally fair person imply saying we could top the group is deluded

Intotouch wrote:Leinster will get better. They have great players out injured some of whom will be coming back and others who are gaining experience and will improve.

Good point, nobody else has players to slot in, any good players or the capability to get better!

If English fans believe the team they support might top a group then it's either arrogant or deluded obviously

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Intotouch wrote:Leinster will get better. They have great players out injured some of whom will be coming back and others who are gaining experience and will improve.

Good point, nobody else has players to slot in, any good players or the capability to get better!

Em...doesn't devalue the point though, does it?  Leinster will -in theory - get better if more mianstream players return. That is an isolated point that doesn't require a combined appreciation of what others sides might do or how they might improve.
Now yes, that "Leinster will get better" idea might be a joke had they lost their first two games.  Then you might be inclined to laugh and say, well all sides could say that but they won being bad and you guys didn't.

So... yep, Leinster are shyte.  I think it'll take more than some players returning to magic them into not being shyte - but they still won both games so far being shyte... which is a big bonus when you're shyte.

Leinster will get better, I have no doubt and did not dispute. So will we

quinsforever wrote:If English fans believe the team they support might top a group then it's either arrogant or deluded obviously

Not at all.  

Quins are fair value for being group leaders.    And if they take more points off Leinster in December, then they'll continue in that position.

Given the strength of Pool 1, Sarries could top that one.

Toulon are fairly in the driving seat in their pool, so Leicester's moment comes in their double header.  If they can pull that off.....

Bath are sunk - if you'll pardon the pun.

Saints could very easily win Pool 5.

None of that is arrogant or deluded.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Intotouch wrote:Leinster will get better. They have great players out injured some of whom will be coming back and others who are gaining experience and will improve.

Good point, nobody else has players to slot in, any good players or the capability to get better!

Ok, Let me rephrase this. Leinster have a freakish amount of injured players at the start of this season. They have not been so badly hit with injuries at any time that I can remember. This form is therefore unusually below standard and will not last. In any typical season every Leinster squad had to cope with injuries but not this many.
Satisfied?

Intotouch wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Intotouch wrote:Leinster will get better. They have great players out injured some of whom will be coming back and others who are gaining experience and will improve.

Good point, nobody else has players to slot in, any good players or the capability to get better!

Ok, Let me rephrase this. Leinster have a freakish amount of injured players at the start of this season. They have not been so badly hit with injuries at any time that I can remember. This form is therefore unusually below standard and will not last. In any typical season every Leinster squad had to cope with injuries but not this many.
Satisfied?

The point being, they aren't the only ones. They aren't even the only ones in their group. Quins have used at least 6 different centres so far this season (including a newly-recruited winger and a kid from the U20s) and have only managed the same pairing in the last two games (not coincidentally, the best performances of the season so far). We're light on wingers, have only one fit fly half, and our fullback cover is looking patchy. We're down our first choice hooker and (theoretical) first choice prop.

Leinster, by virtue of experience and squad depth, are probably still favourites for the group. But both Leinster and Quins have recorded similar results against Wasps and Castres, coming off similarly inconsistent early season form. Both are going to lose a handful of players for the Autumn Internationals and have to reintegrate them quickly. All of that suggests it's going to be close.

quinsforever wrote:If English fans believe the team they support might top a group then it's either arrogant or deluded obviously

Quins have a good chance IMO - they are playing decent rugby. Quins and Leinster battling it out to win the group and the other thru as a best loser. this is not vintage Leinster by any means and Quins are playing in a well drilled manner with a style that could take them a long way.

TJ wrote:

quinsforever wrote:If English fans believe the team they support might top a group then it's either arrogant or deluded obviously

Quins have a good chance IMO - they are playing decent rugby.  Quins and Leinster battling it out to win the group and the other thru as a best loser.  this is not vintage Leinster by any means and Quins are playing in a well drilled manner with a style that could take them a long way.

Nice to have that from a neutral. I think we've suffered from a string of backline injuries that have stopped them from settling and some "second season syndrome" among the youngsters in our pack, but we're starting to get a bit of rhythm. I haven't watched Leinster yet, but they sound to be equally patchy.

Watching the Quins wasps game - Quins have a really strong scrum, good work at the breakdown and a nice solidity in defence. Add to that a little sparkle in attack with a willingness to mix it up and to counter when they could and I thought they looked like a q/f team at least.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

The Saint wrote:

quinsforever wrote:clermont, quins, toulon, toulouse, saints to top groups
best runner up qualifiers in order: racing metro, glasgow, leinster

very very hard to look past toulon and clermont to be nailed on semi finalists again

big casualties from group 1 to be sarries and munster.

So deluded.

Well, we are two from 2, travel very very well to France with Wasps at home and Leinster still nowhere near 50% of their potential. I think it's fair to say we are no certainty to top the group, neither could any marginally fair person imply saying we could top the group is deluded

You're right, not a bad bet to top the group. However from what I've seen they don't have the pack to go much further, and that's only in contrast to the opposition packs of Sarries, Toulon, Saints, Toulose, Clermont... All the other good bets for quarter finalists. Just my view.

Intotouch wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Intotouch wrote:Leinster will get better. They have great players out injured some of whom will be coming back and others who are gaining experience and will improve.

Good point, nobody else has players to slot in, any good players or the capability to get better!

Ok, Let me rephrase this. Leinster have a freakish amount of injured players at the start of this season. They have not been so badly hit with injuries at any time that I can remember. This form is therefore unusually below standard and will not last. In any typical season every Leinster squad had to cope with injuries but not this many.
Satisfied?

Much better. Me from 12 months ago empathises

The Saint wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

The Saint wrote:

quinsforever wrote:clermont, quins, toulon, toulouse, saints to top groups
best runner up qualifiers in order: racing metro, glasgow, leinster

very very hard to look past toulon and clermont to be nailed on semi finalists again

big casualties from group 1 to be sarries and munster.

So deluded.

Well, we are two from 2, travel very very well to France with Wasps at home and Leinster still nowhere near 50% of their potential. I think it's fair to say we are no certainty to top the group, neither could any marginally fair person imply saying we could top the group is deluded

You're right, not a bad bet to top the group. However from what I've seen they don't have the pack to go much further, and that's only in contrast to the opposition packs of Sarries, Toulon, Saints, Toulose, Clermont... All the other good bets for quarter finalists. Just my view.

Probably fair but we'll see. We've managed with a weak pack for years and we turned over Castres' pack. You'd be surprised what our forwards can do when they get it right

i've been quiet about quins since i joined this site. mostly because i didnt see how we could actually win consistently when we we always going backward at the scrum (i used to be a hooker so obviously overemphasize its importance in my own mind).

but now, we are actually driving teams backwards at a rate of knots on occasion. which makes all the fancy stuff the backs do (although not so far this season with all the changes in centres) far far more dangerous.

so if we can stay largely injury free, i am quietly very excited about how we might do this season in the AP and in Europe.

niwatts wrote:Clermont, Leinster, Toulon, Toulouse & Northampton to win their pools.

Racing Metro, Harlequins and Glasgow/Saracens as the best runners-up

I'm almost in agreement with you. Having looked at the fixtures and tried to account for teams giving up once they're out, I reckon the quarter final seedings will look like this;

1. Northampton Saints
2. RC Toulon
3. Stade Touloussain
4. ASM Clermont Auvergne
5. Leinster

6. Racing Metro 92
7. Glasgow Warriors
8. Saracens

If this did happen you'd have to favour the home teams in quarter finals, with the exception of the all English affair which could go either way. In any case it would be a real heavyweight set of quarter finals, with 8 real top quality teams.

I'm not going to look beyond the back to back games, but they are all about match points earned.

Pool 1.
Munster and Clermont to win their home games, Clermont with a tbp. Sarries to win both games v Sale with a tbp at home.

Match points :-
Munster 4. Clermont 5, Saracens 9, Sale 0.

Table
Sarries 14
Munster 12
Clermont 11
Sale 1
.............
Pool 2
Quins and Leinster to cancel each other out with home wins and both getting a lbp. Wasps and Castres to also win their home games with Wasps getting a tbp at home.

Match points.
Quins 5, Leinster 5, Wasps 5, Castres 4.

Table
Quins 13
Leinster 13
Wasps 7
Castres 5.
.............
Pool 3
With Leicester's horrendous injury list I can't see them getting much from Toulon other than a lbp at home. Scarlets and Ulster to win their home games with Ulster getting a lbp away and a tbp at home.

Match points.
Toulon 8, Tigers 1, Scarlets 4, Ulster 6.

Table.
Toulon 16
Scarlets 8
Ulster 7
Tigers 5
.............
Pool 4
It's good to see a Scottish team doing well in a competitive pool and adding to the list of potential qualifiers. Glasgow and Toulouse to win their home games with ST getting a lbp in Glasgow. Bath haven't got the squad depth to fight on two fronts and with both them and Montpellier effectively out, I'll go with home wins with Bath getting a tbp at the Rec.

Match points.
Glasgow 4, Toulouse 5, Montpellier 4, Bath 5.

Table.
Toulouse 13
Glasgow 13
Bath 6
Montpellier 6

This pool could be decided on tries scored.
..........

Pool 5.
I can't see Saints not taking 10 points off Treviso. Racing seem to be taking this comp seriously and I'm going for a narrow Ospreys win at home and Racing with a tbp win in Paris.

Match points.
Saints 10, Treviso 0, Racing 6, Ospreys 4.

Table.
Saints 15
Racing 14
Ospreys 9
Treviso 0
..................
Much will depend on how many injuries teams suffer during the AIs and getting other players back on the field.

This headline "How was it for you" reminds me of a time long ago.