Leinster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby, 31 October

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Leinster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby
Friday 31 October 2014
KO 19:35
Royal Dublin Society
Dooblin

Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: David Wilkinson (Ireland), Stuart Douglas (Ireland)
Television match official: Kevin Beggs (Ireland)
Assessor: Michael Carroll (Ireland)

Live on TG4/BBC Sheepbotherer

A. Teams:

Leinster Rugby

15. Zane Kirchner
14. Darragh Fanning
13. Ben Te'o
12. Noel Reid
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Luke McGrath

1. Michael Bent
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Tom Denton
5. Kane Douglas
6. Kevin McLaughlin (c)
7. Dominic Ryan
8. Jack Conan

16. Bryan Byrne
17. Ed Byrne
18. Peter Dooley
19. Ben Marshall
20. Dan Leavy
21. Isaac Boss
22. Steve Crosbie
23. Mick McGrath

Edinburgh Rugby

15 Nick McLENNAN
14 Dougie FIFE
13 Joaquin DOMINGUEZ
12 Andries STRAUSS (Captain)
11 Tim VISSER
10 Tom HEATHCOTE
9 Sam HIDALGO-CLYNE

1 Allan DELL
2 James HILTERBRAND
3 Willem NEL
4 Ben TOOLIS
5 Jack TURLEY
6 Magnus BRADBURY
7 Tomas LEONARDI
8 David DENTON

16 Jake KERR
17 Rory SUTHERLAND
18 John ANDRESS
19 Jamie RITCHIE
20 George TURNER
21 Sean KENNEDY
22 Greig TONKS
23 Jack CUTHBERT

B. Form - head to head:

22 Played 22
13 Wins 9
9 Losses 13
0 Draws 0
60 Tries 50
46 Conversions 31
58 Penalties 40
2 Drop Goals 2
572 Points 438
26 Avg. Age 25

C. Form:

Fri 20 Decemebr 2013
Edinburgh Rugby 11 - 6 Leinster Rugby
Murrayfield

Sat 10 May 2014
Leinster Rugby 15 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby
Royal Dublin Society

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Should you not be pouncing about training and practicing dropping the ball so the forwards have to win it for you just so that you can drop it again?
On another less contentious note, what happened to that American dude Edinburgh signed, Brett Thomson? Or was it Glasgow who signed him? Either way, has nobody thought of reporting his disappearance to the cops?

Depending on whether you believe Edinburgh or USA Rugby, he's either unavailable due to a shoulder injury or starting on the wing vs the All Blacks.

I like the backrow matchups. I like the potential in the halfbacks (the kid McGrath is a great little general). Not expecting much from Te'o but just something new in midfield might spring a couple of surprises.

I hope this will be an open game with some running rugby. Having Owens as the ref probably means it will stay open and up tempo unless one of the teams decides to seriously lock down the play.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I like the backrow matchups.  I like the potential in the halfbacks (the kid McGrath is a great little general).  Not expecting much from Te'o but just something new in midfield might spring a couple of surprises.

I hope this will be an open game with some running rugby.  Having Owens as the ref probably means it will stay open and up tempo unless one of the teams decides to seriously lock down the play.

Running rugby and MOC do not compute. I want him gone by end of this season. No matter what happens. I cant stand to see us play even more boring and negative shoite than Munster, any more. Its not us.

He wont change. Its not in him.  Its done.  

Thank fock I'm a Connacht fan now.

P.S.  Delighted to see McGrath and Reid start. Soo talented those two. T'eo should be sexshy to watch - in a butch way,  also. I would.

Gibson, you little monkey.
Is the self imposed exile over?
You have been missed.

I really can't get over how inexperienced this Edinburgh team is. I'd even go as far to see that this is the most inexperienced team the entire Pro 12 will see all season (and that includes that Dragons' recent bad run of injuries).

To that end, I really don't know what to class as a reasonable result for Edinburgh. We're on for a hiding, but I just hope we at least show some heart and grit and that the young pups put in a good shift.

TO demonstrate the inexperience of the team, here are the ages and number of Edinburgh caps of the squad:


Age (caps)

15 Nick McLENNAN - 26 (5)
14 Dougie FIFE - 24 (44)
13 Joaquin DOMINGUEZ - 27 (11)
12 Andries STRAUSS - 30 (17)
11 Tim VISSER - 27 (110)
10 Tom HEATHCOTE - 22 (7)
9 Sam HIDALGO-CLYNE - 21 (15)

1 Allan DELL - 22 (3)
2 James HILTERBRAND - 25 (18)
3 Willem NEL - 28 (59)
4 Ben TOOLIS - 22 (6)
5 Jack TURLEY - Amateur player who joined the squad yesterday, he's a removal man during the day)
6 Magnus BRADBURY - 19 (0)
7 Tomas LEONARDI - 27 (22)
8 David DENTON - 24 (64)

16 Jake KERR - 18 (0)
17 Rory SUTHERLAND - 22 (3)
18 John ANDRESS - 30 (7)
19 Jamie RITCHIE - 18 (0)
20 George TURNER - 22 (0)
21 Sean KENNEDY - 24 (20)
22 Greig TONKS - 25 (46)
23 Jack CUTHBERT - 27 (33)

As I said previously, our backs are fairly steady, but our pack and subs are incredibly inexperienced - some are just out of school.

Out of interest does anyone know what happened to Neil Irvine-Hess ? I thought he signed as an EDP but checked the website and couldn't see him listed.

justified sinner wrote:Out of interest does anyone know what happened to Neil Irvine-Hess ? I thought he signed as an EDP but checked the website and couldn't see him listed.

Was on an EDP last season but was released as wasn't thought to be very good and not very physical or strong. For his size he had some pretty poor stats in the gym.

Gibson wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I like the backrow matchups.  I like the potential in the halfbacks (the kid McGrath is a great little general).  Not expecting much from Te'o but just something new in midfield might spring a couple of surprises.

I hope this will be an open game with some running rugby.  Having Owens as the ref probably means it will stay open and up tempo unless one of the teams decides to seriously lock down the play.

Running rugby and MOC do not compute. I want him gone by end of this season. No matter what happens. I cant stand to see us play even more boring and negative shoite than Munster, any more. Its not us.

He wont change. Its not in him.  Its done.  

Thank fock I'm a Connacht fan now.

P.S.  Delighted to see McGrath and Reid start. Soo talented those two. T'eo should be sexshy to watch - in a butch way,  also. I would.

I hear you, but maybe there might be some running rugby in spite of him.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really can't get over how inexperienced this Edinburgh team is.  I'd even go as far to see that this is the most inexperienced team the entire Pro 12 will see all season (and that includes that Dragons' recent bad run of injuries).

To that end, I really don't know what to class as a reasonable result for Edinburgh.  We're on for a hiding, but I just hope we at least show some heart and grit and that the young pups put in a good shift.

TO demonstrate the inexperience of the team, here are the ages and number of Edinburgh caps of the squad:


Age (caps)

15 Nick McLENNAN - 26 (5)
14 Dougie FIFE - 24 (44)
13 Joaquin DOMINGUEZ - 27 (11)
12 Andries STRAUSS - 30 (17)
11 Tim VISSER - 27 (110)
10 Tom HEATHCOTE - 22 (7)
9 Sam HIDALGO-CLYNE - 21 (15)

1 Allan DELL - 22 (3)
2 James HILTERBRAND - 25 (18)
3 Willem NEL - 28 (59)
4 Ben TOOLIS - 22 (6)
5 Jack TURLEY - Amateur player who joined the squad yesterday, he's a removal man during the day)
6 Magnus BRADBURY - 19 (0)
7 Tomas LEONARDI - 27 (22)
8 David DENTON - 24 (64)

16 Jake KERR - 18 (0)
17 Rory SUTHERLAND - 22 (3)
18 John ANDRESS - 30 (7)
19 Jamie RITCHIE - 18 (0)
20 George TURNER - 22 (0)
21 Sean KENNEDY - 24 (20)
22 Greig TONKS - 25 (46)
23 Jack CUTHBERT - 27 (33)

As I said previously, our backs are fairly steady, but our pack and subs are incredibly inexperienced - some are just out of school.

On the plus side though this is a fantastic opportunity for some highly rated Scottish youngsters to gain exposure to pro rugby and locks aside the starting XV is pretty respectable. Really pleased for Bradbury and Ritchie, and Ben Toolis has needed some gametime for a while. He's 22 so should really be breaking through to regular rugby. Good chance for him to show what he can do.

Best of luck Edinburgh!

Majestic83 wrote:

justified sinner wrote:Out of interest does anyone know what happened to Neil Irvine-Hess ? I thought he signed as an EDP but checked the website and couldn't see him listed.

Was on an EDP last season but was released as wasn't thought to be very good and not very physical or strong. For his size he had some pretty poor stats in the gym.

Thanks, must have forgotten about him being released. I was trying to think of who else we could play and his name came to mind.

Gibson wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I like the backrow matchups.  I like the potential in the halfbacks (the kid McGrath is a great little general).  Not expecting much from Te'o but just something new in midfield might spring a couple of surprises.

I hope this will be an open game with some running rugby.  Having Owens as the ref probably means it will stay open and up tempo unless one of the teams decides to seriously lock down the play.

Running rugby and MOC do not compute. I want him gone by end of this season. No matter what happens. I cant stand to see us play even more boring and negative shoite than Munster, any more. Its not us.

He wont change. Its not in him.  Its done.  

Thank fock I'm a Connacht fan now.

P.S.  Delighted to see McGrath and Reid start. Soo talented those two. T'eo should be sexshy to watch - in a butch way,  also. I would.

Gibbooooooooooooo!
Is there life in the old dog yet ???

Not sure what was worse there, our ruck defence or Goperth's conversion attempt!

Try in the first 3 minutes.
Beg for mercy, Ladyboys.

2nd try and McLennan injury...!

Good we have 2 fullbacks on the bench!

Mercy!

PLEASE!

Tis looking ominous. Normally we fall apart and ship lots of points in the second half in Dublin.

All right, Leinster. We'll call it a draw:

Edinburgh players dropping like flies..

Not bad, over 23 minutes played and we've only lost 2 players to injury!

Crap. I've just been called up to the edinburgh squad for next week

George Carlin wrote:All right, Leinster. We'll call it a draw:

Is there anyone with Virgin Media watch this on BBC Alba with English commentary? I only see Ospreys v Connacht as the other option...

Only the BBC Sport website has it for me.

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Is there anyone with Virgin Media watch this on BBC Alba with English commentary? I only see Ospreys v Connacht as the other option...  

Only the BBC Sport website has it for me.

Got Virgin Media but couldn't tell you...

The other (better?!) half is refusing to watch rugby this weekend and has commandeered the TV so I'm stuck with iPlayer

Doesn't look like it's a classic though...

Bradbury looks a good prospect.

Denton's new hair-do is very neat.
That's it : I can't think of anything else that's positive about the Luvvies tonight.
Almost every attack has floundered when single runners get turned over at the breakdown. Why no support runners?
I've lost count of the number of aimless box kicks from 9, giving away possession cheaply.

Embra are actually showing up pretty well, all things considered...

A pro player shouldn't be missing the kick Heathcote missed.

jimbopip wrote:Denton's new hair-do is very neat.

Kennedy's is awful!

How illegal was that maul?

Leinster 9 lucky not to be carded there

*Sigh* to be within a baw hairs of the try line and come away with nothing

Excellent use of the overlap there by Strauss. His leadership and vision are sublime

Great double tackle on the Peaky Blinder there

Well played young turner

Very good try there

Strauss overlap equals contact. Just get rid. And the last try was down his channel as well. Decidedly meh. Just get rid.

Shame about conceding that try at the end (Strauss where were you?) but definitely not as bad as feared.

Most Edinburgh's players can hold their head right.

Would love to see George Turner instead of Hilterbrand going forward.

Toolis and Bradbury look good prospects for you guys.

Fitzy looks like he's never been gone. We have missed him badly.

Thought all the reserve Edinburgh players in the pack were actually very good tonight, if anything the so called first choice players let the side down. Toolis esp and Bradbury were very lively and the scrum was solid; Nel had a good game and Hilterbrand also played well to be fair. Turley put himself about as well.

The backs were very very ordinary though.

I enjoyed that game... and I didn't expect to... and no, it's not just the score!  Two sides without their best but still a game with lots of bite and snap (yes, errors too)

That was a tense period as Edinburgh looked like they had a try in the bag with sustained pressure but somehow Leinster pushed them out again. Entertaining patch.

More like the Leinster I'd like to see (in the mental drive bit) but obviously games are dictated by the opposition so..... jury is still out.  I do think though that the game might be a momemtum shifter for them and knock them out of the yawn inducing stuff they're engaged in so far.

Fitz................ some very good, some bad again.  This time don't blow the latest Sinatra comeback  by trying to imagine the end of the move before you execute the beginning.  His mind still gets ahead of itself at times (great chance lost on the knock on) but would love him to finally settle into a sustained period without injury and show us what he can undoubtedly add.

I agree with Fly. It was a good game to watch. Maybe a bit too stop/start but we need to remember that, quite literally, some of the Edinburgh players only met for the first time on Wednesday.
It does look like there is a team spirit starting to come through which is encouraging if overdue.
Leinster fans - I noticed a few of your guys seemed to gave taped over the Guinness logo on their top. Coincidence or some sort of statement?

Better than it could have been for Edinburgh. They faught all 80 mins and the scoreline flattered leinster. Lost the ball in contact / at the breakdown far too much and some pathetic attempts at contesting kicks especially in the first half allied to too much kicking meant Edinburgh defending for long periods. Edinburgh got some attacking positions . Hope - but by 'eck we are poor realy

Well that scoreline was a lot more respectable than I was hoping - great for the guys to get a try at the end too.

Was it Edinburgh being better than expected or Leinster just not really having to get out of 2nd gear?

No surprise to hear the young guns acquitted themselves well and it was the established players that let the side down at times - explains exactly what is wrong with Edinburgh just now.

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Leinster fans - I noticed a few of your guys seemed to gave taped over the Guinness logo on their top. Coincidence or some sort of statement?

Yeah. That bit had me confused for a while. I don't really recognise any sponsor logos on the kits usually. I mean I know they are there but I'm usually too busy looking at the game or other things to actually have logos register in the conscious part of my brain. Maybe that's why I actually DID notice the unusual in the sense of the black patches on the Leinster guy's shoulders. I was wondering what they represented but then the interest in the game took over again. It's only now that I realise that yes, it was the Guinness logos covered up. And yes, now I'm wondering why.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well that scoreline was a lot more respectable than I was hoping - great for the guys to get a try at the end too.

Was it Edinburgh being better than expected or Leinster just not really having to get out of 2nd gear?

No surprise to hear the young guns acquitted themselves well and it was the established players that let the side down at times - explains exactly what is wrong with Edinburgh just now.

Well apart from Strauss and Andress (scrum went to pot when he came on), none really let the side down, Visser made a grand total of 0 tackle but nobody should be surprised by this.

Agreed that the scoreline does flatter Leinster a bit.

I think a player that deserves some credit here is James Hilterbrand. The lineouts on the whole were very good and the scrum worked quite well.

It must be said though, yes there are injuries, but for me the problems came in the backs/attack where injuries aren't as much a problem. Solomons had his first choice 9, 10, 11, 14, 15 available and his favoured Strauss (Tonks/Fife could have gone to 13) - but there is only really Matt Scott missing. There really wasn't any creativity. Visser seems to have gone downhill quite rapidly it seems.

The thing with visser is he's a finisher - he needs good supply inside him, which he's just not getting.

What he really needs is De Luca.

If Visser is a finisher, then when Edinburgh are not creating much is it worth having him in the XV? His tackling is poor and he wasn't competing for the ball in the air well. At least with Cuthbert you have someone who can tackle better and is good in the air.

Once Scott gets back and maybe Fife in the midfield, Visser should play as he'll get chances, but right now I just wonder if there are better options.

Visser gets attention now whereas before people didn't know whether he was just very good and super slick or whether they were just treating a reasonable player too casually and he was getting through their casualness.

I think things must have simply tightened up against him in the pre-game behind the scenes team talk-shows over the seasons.  If you have a noted star creative player it can sometimes become a weakeness as the opposing sides know that if they neutralise a big part of his game then the team that have him will fluster a bit looking for options other than him but still hold onto their instincts to throw the ball his way if under pressure.

I remember when O'Driscoll started out.  Oh I was loving the idea that teams didn't know how to handle him.  He was a surprise figure in their throughts of what Ireland usually brought to a party.  But over a few seasons he got attention, he got double marked and in ways, yes, he was nullified to an extent.  I remember having lot of arguments with people who said he was a flash in the pan and was spent.  I kept saying don't you guys see the attention he's getting now?  If you're good, sides don't remain dumb for long - they find ways to dampen your effects.

Ben O'Te broke his arm. Apparently has had surgery over the weekend and will be out for 6 weeks!

Lucky Ireland just hit an incredibly unlucky stint of injuries................ once again!

So much for 'Luck' and its supposed lovey dovey relationship with us