Why Are the Federer and Nadal Fans Locked in Combat

by Haddie-nuff Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:33 am

We have all read the praise that Nadal has heaped on Federer in the past along with Uncle Toni.
Personally I find these comments made by Fed when talking about Nadal a revelation.. I read (in small print) somewhere when Nadal was recovering from his knees, that Fed telephoned him but it was never made public so I was a bit sceptical.. however hats off to you Roger it is nice to know his fans are not the only ones to miss him

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/2014/11/11/rafael-nadal-atp-finals-roger-federer/18862663/

by hawkeye Thu 13 Nov 2014, 6:52 am

Haddie. Yes they both have the greatest respect for each other. From your link

"When Rafa plays, he's unbelievably good. I expect him to be back to normal," said Roger Federer, who is 10-23 lifetime against the Spaniard.

"I think he'll be playing for the biggest titles in the sport and maintaining his ranking and moving up again," continued Federer, who is 2-0 in London this week. "I think that's what he expects from himself and that's what I hope we'll see again."

I also found his response to some stupid journalist attempting to big up his rivalry with Djokovic. He put them right.

‘I feel a special connection towards Rafa just because we did, I don't want to say come up together somewhat on the tour, but we did have a very strong, intense rivalry for many years, starting 2004 maybe,’ Federer said, bringing up Rafael Nadal, who is absent from the World Tour Finals as he recovers from surgery on a troubled appendix. ‘Especially we played each other that many times in finals of slams, which hasn't been the case with the other players as much.

‘I know Novak, the matches and the rivalry is nice. I really enjoy playing against him. It's very evenly matched, you know. But I played him more often probably in semis than in finals most likely. I don't know if that's true, but that's kind of how it felt like. Because me and Rafa were always 1 and 2 or 2 and 1 for so long. […]

http://www.live-tennis.com/category/atp-tennis/atp-world-tour-finals-roger-federer-reclaiming-world-no-1-ranking-would-be-very-special-201411/

by socal1976 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 6:54 am

I think it mainly comes from Federer fans frankly haddie. I think a portion of them take it personally that in an otherwise sparkling and blemishless career that Fed's one -sided rivalry with Nadal another player who is still close to his all time grandslam record should leave Fed's goathood in some doubt. I don't see the same venom directed from Nadal fans towards Federer. But watching Nadal routinely beat up their hero and take his lunch money in slam finals has scared some of them beyond reason.

by Jahu Thu 13 Nov 2014, 9:34 am

I've said it a few times here to Fed fans, that hating Nadal just because he might overtake Fed's GS number, is frankly stupid and selfish.

They are good friends its seems, so while they enjoy their riches, fans fighting like kids for and against them, is a bit of a brainless activity.

I like Rafa too, he is the original powerplayer, moonballer and stamina King, sure now kind of paying the price for it with his body, but nontheless I miss him on tour.

Djoko on the other hand, is a more advanced copy of Rafa, so a little copy/paste git Laugh

by HM Murdock Thu 13 Nov 2014, 9:34 am

That's a fair comment from Federer. His rivalry with Novak has produced great matches and is evenly matched but it has often not taken place on the very biggest stages. It has often been semi finals rather than finals.

I'd be interested what Rafa thinks about the respective rivalries as he has played Djokovic in more finals than he has Federer and the head-to-head is that much closer.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 13 Nov 2014, 9:54 am

Jahu wrote:I've said it a few times here to Fed fans, that hating Nadal just because he might overtake Fed's GS number, is frankly stupid and selfish.

True. I'd also say that taking any personal pride in any player's achievements is a bit daft as well. We can enjoy it, but the idea that it somehow reflects well on ourselves (because we chose/support the winner etc.) is a more than a little odd. That's partly why the GOAT debate (which is on another thread, not this one!) gets so heated - people see an attack on their player as an attack on themselves (wrongly) and hence get overly defensive.
Also, if you criticise a player, some sensitive fans then label you as a fan of their rival, and the only reason for criticising is out of jealousy etc. which also leads to combat even with e.g. non-Fed fans who get labelled as Fed fans.
So those are some reasons for the combat.

by lags72 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 9:55 am

socal1976 wrote:I think it mainly comes from Federer fans frankly haddie. I think a portion of them take it personally that in an otherwise sparkling and blemishless career that Fed's one -sided rivalry with Nadal another player who is still close to his all time grandslam record should leave Fed's goathood in some doubt. I don't see the same venom directed from Nadal fans towards Federer. But watching Nadal routinely beat up their hero and take his lunch money in slam finals has scared some of them beyond reason.

So there you have it. Look no further than socal's analysis to understand who is mostly responsible for creating the mood of 'combat' referenced by H-n (and which does indeed exist, sadly). We can rely on a neat, simple explanation from socal - albeit not as simple as it being a two-way street, where blame could realistically be apportioned evenly.

It's an explanation which on the one hands purports to be rational & objective, but which also conveniently just happens to link back to so much of the negative comment directed towards Federer by socal himself on so many threads over so many years.

That said, I'm always wary of the terms "Federer fans" or " Nadal fans" used in this sort of context. If it were indeed as clear-cut as socal says, then one might wonder why it is so easy to find similar amounts of 'venom' directed towards Federer as towards Nadal. The venom appears not only on relatively small-audience Forums such as 606, but across all manner of other web & print media - not least the Facebook pages of the ATP, where there is a constant (and at times unbelievably abusive) amount of hatred directed at both players and in seemingly even measure.

In truth, the venom that socal claims to originate from "Federer fans" doesn't come from fans of ANY description. To my mind, it doesn't even come from fans of the sport of tennis. Similarly, the hatred towards Federer doesn't come from Nadal "fans". I concluded long ago that much, if not all, of the most intense variety of hate-filled venom (directed at BOTH players) comes instead from a group of people who might more appropriately be described not as fans, but as childish morons.

by Jahu Thu 13 Nov 2014, 10:00 am

JHM, True, and sure enough we have young fans who are more fired in their teenage fanaticism and glue themselves to a top sportsman to have some identity and feel good supporting a guy, and some more mature fans who understand sport is sport and are in general more balanced.

I don't think this will ever change, thought Tennis is a more upmarket sport and lately all tournaments are being broadcast on TV or online, so more accessible to people and more fans watching it or getting to be tennis fans.

We did not see much Masters a decade ago, GS were main thing.

by Guest Thu 13 Nov 2014, 10:20 am

My observations for the combat between the fans stems from one unique perspective. Federer has no equal. To an extent that is somewhat true. Look at the achievements and stats. It backs it up.

However, Nadal has had Federer's calling card for the last 7 years. Now if it were the case that Nadal was a flair player, I am sure the fans wouldn't take such annoyance with it. Some will point that 13 of Nadal's victories have been on Clay and it is a fair point, but also I think Federer fans find it frustrating that fruit of Nadal's success against Federer has been down to 2 things. Pepper the BH and outlast him from the baseline. Nadal fans will argue that is a dis-service and by account it could be. Take Murray and Djokovic. I think because the head-to-heads are a lot closer and they don't take the Nadal route to success over him lessens the angst they feel towards their fans. Also the fact Djokovic and Murray are not close to Federer or Nadal in the stats and achievements league also makes it bearable.

Imagine if we had the internet in the days of Borg and McEnroe? Everyone loved Borg. There was a universal love and respect like there is for Federer. I would hedge a bet that people would've hated McEnroe with a passion with the fact he de-throned Borg at Wimbledon.

Federer fans always comforted themselves in the fact Nadal wouldn't beat Federer at Wimbledon or at the AO or USO. Nadal did (bar USO) and it has annoyed the crap out of Federer fans ever since.

I was a Becker fan. When Sampras came along, yes it was annoying, but as time went by it was clear Sampras was a much more superior player and it was easy to accept the inevitable defeat that would happen when they met.

If it was a player which played with the same flair and aggression that Federer has, I think his fans would be the more gracious. However it isn't. Like I said Federer by and large has no equal and the the H2H with Nadal is a massive stain on that rather amazing CV. It's not to say Federer fans hate Nadal fans, just that when you see Federer and you sit back wonder what appeal is for the rest of the field if they don't like Federer.

by HM Murdock Thu 13 Nov 2014, 10:51 am

The irritation I feel in the 'argument' is about the gerrymandering of statistics to boost Nadal's case.

Who is "the best" is never going to be an exact science but for years opinion was based mainly on who had won the most slams, followed by weeks at number 1.

Once Nadal's accomplishments reached the stage where he was viewed as among the best ever, suddenly we get things like head-to-head records, or consecutive years winning a grand slam, or the numbers of time the #1 ranking was regained being thrown into the mix.

These stats are not just being used as tie-breakers when all other things are equal, they are being presented as if they trump slam wins and weeks at #1.

Aside from the daftness of the approach, it puzzles me because it shows a degree of fandom that isn't satisfied with one's favourite player being one of the best ever. Instead, facts have to be arranged so that the player is presented as the best ever.

by Guest Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:04 am

I feel Murdoch that Federer is in a league of his own.

Thing is fans not just of Nadal, but other players will put them in the league with him.

I don't want to get enticed into a GOAT debate though Wink

by HM Murdock Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:16 am

legendkillarV2 wrote:I feel Murdoch that Federer is in a league of his own.

Thing is fans not just of Nadal, but other players will put them in the league with him.

I don't want to get enticed into a GOAT debate though

You're probably right. I imagine there's a few die-hard Sampras fans out there producing stats to show that Pete is the GOAT.

I just don't get the mentality. But then, none of the teams or athletes I follow are anywhere near being the best ever, so I've never had the temptation!

The more I learn about tennis players of the past though, the more I think annointing any player as "the best" is bit daft. You can only judge a player against the era they played in.

by Guest Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:24 am

HM Murdoch wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:I feel Murdoch that Federer is in a league of his own.

Thing is fans not just of Nadal, but other players will put them in the league with him.

I don't want to get enticed into a GOAT debate though
You're probably right. I imagine there's a few die-hard Sampras fans out there producing stats to show that Pete is the GOAT.

I just don't get the mentality. But then, none of the teams or athletes I follow are anywhere near being the best ever, so I've never had the temptation!

The more I learn about tennis players of the past though, the more I think annointing any player as "the best" is bit daft. You can only judge a player against the era they played in.

As you say Federer leads the stats on the 2 biggest factors in the game. Slams and weeks at number 1.

The other factors such as MS1000 and H2H's take second place.

Tennis will never produce that perfect player that holds all the stats.

by socal1976 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:33 am

lags72 wrote:
socal1976 wrote:I think it mainly comes from Federer fans frankly haddie. I think a portion of them take it personally that in an otherwise sparkling and blemishless career that Fed's one -sided rivalry with Nadal another player who is still close to his all time grandslam record should leave Fed's goathood in some doubt. I don't see the same venom directed from Nadal fans towards Federer. But watching Nadal routinely beat up their hero and take his lunch money in slam finals has scared some of them beyond reason.

So there you have it. Look no further than socal's analysis to understand who is mostly responsible for creating the mood of 'combat' referenced by H-n (and which does indeed exist, sadly). We can rely on a neat, simple explanation from socal - albeit not as simple as it being a two-way street, where blame could realistically be apportioned evenly.

It's an explanation which on the one hands purports to be rational & objective, but which also conveniently just happens to link back to so much of the negative comment directed towards Federer by socal himself on so many threads over so many years.

That said, I'm always wary of the terms "Federer fans" or " Nadal fans" used in this sort of context. If it were indeed as clear-cut as socal says, then one might wonder why it is so easy to find similar amounts of 'venom' directed towards Federer as towards Nadal. The venom appears not only on relatively small-audience Forums such as 606, but across all manner of other web & print media - not least the Facebook pages of the ATP, where there is a constant (and at times unbelievably abusive) amount of hatred directed at both players and in seemingly even measure.

In truth, the venom that socal claims to originate from "Federer fans" doesn't come from fans of ANY description. To my mind, it doesn't even come from fans of the sport of tennis. Similarly, the hatred towards Federer doesn't come from Nadal "fans". I concluded long ago that much, if not all, of the most intense variety of hate-filled venom (directed at BOTH players) comes instead from a group of people who might more appropriately be described not as fans, but as childish morons.

Blame isn't always a two way street. I don't see endless accusations of PED use, rule violations, fake injuries etc. on other forums directed at Federer. In fact, Federer rarely gets negative coverage of any kind online or in the media. While Federer fans run rampant online directing wild accusations and hatefilled taunts at Nadal, his fans, and his style of play. I just call it the way I see it. This forum believe it or not used to me (lone Djokovic fan), a couple of Murray fans, and all Nadal fans. Not a single Roger fan in site. There was no fighting then, not at all. A certain federer fan and a cadre of his supporters arrived, most of whom are gone right now and all of a sudden the fireworks started. So from my own experience I remember this forum when it was smaller, and there existed a smattering of Novak and Murray fans and mainly Nadal fans, and there was no fighting ever between the various factions. The people who were fed fans came in and all of sudden we had weekly seminars of certain posters diagnosing Nadal's urine and blood content from watching him on TV and endless moonballer posts.

I don't see the large numbers of derogatory anti-fed posts by Nadal fans on the forums I have visited but I do see on virtually every forum the vitriol directed at Nadal and his fans by fed fans or at least self styled Fed fans.

As for not liking a player, I think you are all free to it and in fact I kind of like the p*ss and vinegar in the debates anyway. And I don't like Federer in general, and make no bones about it. I direct a small fraction of the venom towards Federer that the legion of his fans direct at other players and as usual some can dish it but can't take it.

by Born Slippy Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:33 am

HM Murdoch wrote:The irritation I feel in the 'argument' is about the gerrymandering of statistics to boost Nadal's case.

Who is "the best" is never going to be an exact science but for years opinion was based mainly on who had won the most slams, followed by weeks at number 1.

Once Nadal's accomplishments reached the stage where he was viewed as among the best ever, suddenly we get things like head-to-head records, or consecutive years winning a grand slam, or the numbers of time the #1 ranking was regained being thrown into the mix.

These stats are not just being used as tie-breakers when all other things are equal, they are being presented as if they trump slam wins and weeks at #1.

Aside from the daftness of the approach, it puzzles me because it shows a degree of fandom that isn't satisfied with one's favourite player being one of the best ever. Instead, facts have to be arranged so that the player is presented as the best ever.

It depends on the question being asked. If you say who has the greater achievements, then its clearly Federer - h2h is irrelevant. However, if the question is who is the greater player then I don't see how you can ignore the h2h between two peers, particularly when one player has clearly suffered significantly greater injury issues. There are obvious reasons why h2h is not considered when say comparing Laver and Sampras.

I am not a Nadal fan. I don't support Fed either albeit I would usually support him over Nadal. However, I think it has to be acknowledged that there is a good argument that the h2h is sufficient for Rafa to at least have to be regarded as Fed's equal in assessing which of them is the better player.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:34 am

No GOAT debate on this thread remember Smile

This one's not for the players (it's for the fans)

I agree with this HM - "it shows a degree of fandom that isn't satisfied with one's favourite player being one of the best ever." It's that level of fandom that can lead to combat.

by socal1976 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:45 am

Born Slippy wrote:
HM Murdoch wrote:The irritation I feel in the 'argument' is about the gerrymandering of statistics to boost Nadal's case.

Who is "the best" is never going to be an exact science but for years opinion was based mainly on who had won the most slams, followed by weeks at number 1.

Once Nadal's accomplishments reached the stage where he was viewed as among the best ever, suddenly we get things like head-to-head records, or consecutive years winning a grand slam, or the numbers of time the #1 ranking was regained being thrown into the mix.

These stats are not just being used as tie-breakers when all other things are equal, they are being presented as if they trump slam wins and weeks at #1.

Aside from the daftness of the approach, it puzzles me because it shows a degree of fandom that isn't satisfied with one's favourite player being one of the best ever. Instead, facts have to be arranged so that the player is presented as the best ever.

It depends on the question being asked. If you say who has the greater achievements, then its clearly Federer - h2h is irrelevant. However, if the question is who is the greater player then I don't see how you can ignore the h2h between two peers, particularly when one player has clearly suffered significantly greater injury issues. There are obvious reasons why h2h is not considered when say comparing Laver and Sampras.

I am not a Nadal fan. I don't support Fed either albeit I would usually support him over Nadal. However, I think it has to be acknowledged that there is a good argument that the h2h is sufficient for Rafa to at least have to be regarded as Fed's equal in assessing which of them is the better player.

Agree completely with BS. When it is a contemporary and he has almost the same number of slams the other tiebreakers so to speak in particular H2H record becomes extremely important. Especially, in light of the massive time Nadal has been out due to injuries. If not for his injuries he may already be passed Federer on the slam count and own the H2H.

by HM Murdock Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:49 am

legendkillarV2 wrote:As you say Federer leads the stats on the 2 biggest factors in the game. Slams and weeks at number 1.

The other factors such as MS1000 and H2H's take second place.

Yep, and if someone put the proverbial gun to my head and told me choose a GOAT, I'd choose Federer.

But I don't see how I can accurately compare him to, say, Bjorn Borg who notched up 11 slams (including 3 RG/W doubles, in the days when those surfaces were massively different), despite only playing in Australia once (as a 17 year old) and retiring in his mid 20s.

To put that into context, Federer's non-Australian slam total between 2003 and 2010 is 12.

I could also throw in variables like Federer having the advantage of racquet technology, more advanced physio, nutrition and training techniques, base camps in Dubai etc etc.

It's just too imprecise a comparison to be dogmatic.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:50 am

Not a GOAT debate!
There is a sticky for that!
Not hard to understand!
Too many exclamation marks!

by HM Murdock Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:55 am

I was attempting to walk the fine line between entering the GOAT debate and making a point about the nature of the debate itself.

Anyway, done now!

by socal1976 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 11:59 am

I don't want a GOAT debate either. But the idea that claims of Federer are valid and like Murdoch points out other players like Borg or Nadal are invalid is not correct. The venom comes simply from Nadal tarnishing Fed's aura invincibility and doing it over and over again. I think that is pretty clear. If Nadal lost to fed more than he won I doubt we would have the outrage associated with his persona. Also people do tend to look at Nadal and his style of play as being negative and not offensive enough that is certainly part of it.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:09 pm

But then why so do many Nadal 'fans' target Federer? Out of jealously that most (?) people regard Fed as better? There's masses of derogatory stuff out there against Fed, often on a personal level i.e. about him as a person, rather than him as a tennis player.
If Fed had not won so much compared to everyone else I doubt we would have the outrage associated with Fed's persona.

by lags72 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:16 pm

socal1976 wrote: ..............................................

.....................................................
I direct a small fraction of the venom towards Federer that the legion of his fans direct at other players and as usual some can dish it but can't take it.

Oh well that's fine .... only a "small fraction of venom" actually comes from socal then. So that sets the record straight. Clearly.

Bit like a guy who admits to going out to mug people maybe once a month, but justifies it by saying ... hey I know people who do it every night .....so don't try and blame me for rising street crime.

At least you can be 100% sure of one thing socal : Nobody has in the past ever accused you of not being capable of "dishing it out".

And nor is anyone ever likely to in the future Wink

by HM Murdock Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:18 pm

Noy sure about that, JHM.

Murray and Djokovic, with a fraction of Federer's achievement, get plenty of criticism about their personalities too.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:24 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:Noy sure about that, JHM.

Murray and Djokovic, with a fraction of Federer's achievement, get plenty of criticism about their personalities too.

They do, but I don't sense quite the same level of hatred as for Fed, or the eagerness to seize upon any possible thing, however small, to knock him down as much as possible.
Of course, his detractors will say "We only do that to point out he's not the saint Fed fans say he is" just as Rafa's detractors say "We only do that to point out he's not the saint Rafa fans say he is"
And of course the fans of both then say "We don't claim he's a saint"
And then the detractors say "Yes, you do"
And then the fans say "No, we don't"
And then the bell goes and they all have to leave the playground to go back into the classroom.

by Guest Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:26 pm

Take it to the GOAT thread!!!!!!!!!

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:28 pm

We need a GFOAT thread - Greatest Fans of All Time

by It Must Be Love Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:33 pm

Good article Haddie. They both have great respect for each other, Federer for Nadal and Nadal for Federer. It's good to see.

As a Nadal fan, I think Federer is a great ambassador for the game of tennis. He's brought in many people into tennis, and his net impact for tennis has absolutely been positive. However that doesn't necessarily mean he's a saint, and I do think he has his flaws.

by Jahu Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:40 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:We need a GFOAT thread - Greatest Fans of All Time

Somebody make a list quickly of Top 10 GFOAT's here. Great idea and lacking any quality tennis these days, a good way to have a go at each other Smile

by Guest Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:45 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:We need a GFOAT thread - Greatest Fans of All Time

Surely Hewitt or Henman! Laugh

by It Must Be Love Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:48 pm

socal1976 wrote:Blame isn't always a two way street. I don't see endless accusations of PED use, rule violations, fake injuries etc. on other forums directed at Federer. In fact, Federer rarely gets negative coverage of any kind online or in the media. While Federer fans run rampant online directing wild accusations and hatefilled taunts at Nadal, his fans, and his style of play. I just call it the way I see it. This forum believe it or not used to me (lone Djokovic fan), a couple of Murray fans, and all Nadal fans. Not a single Roger fan in site. There was no fighting then, not at all. A certain federer fan and a cadre of his supporters arrived, most of whom are gone right now and all of a sudden the fireworks started. So from my own experience I remember this forum when it was smaller, and there existed a smattering of Novak and Murray fans and mainly Nadal fans, and there was no fighting ever between the various factions. The people who were fed fans came in and all of sudden we had weekly seminars of certain posters diagnosing Nadal's urine and blood content from watching him on TV and endless moonballer posts.

You're correct Socal. The phrase False Equivalency' springs to mind. It's very easy to 'equate' two things that aren't actually so.
Who's the Nadal fan who dislikes Federer on here ? HE likes Federer, Haddie I think doesn't mind him, I'm not sure what Falzy thinks. As I've explained I think and have always said he's a good ambassador but has his flaws and isn't a saint; and I think most Federer fans could hopefully agree with that. I mean come on the WTF final 2012, I was there in the stadium and supporting Federer in the final, think of the most raging Nadal hater you can and imagine if he would support Nadal in a big final !

It's not comparable to what I've seen given the other way. Constant baseless PED allegations, many posts calling him 'Nadull' rather than his actual name, constant insults on his style of play, called the 'death of tennis', one poster from this forum has gone onto another one and said he wished injury upon Nadal, one poster who used to post on this forum but not anymore said he wanted Nadal's career to end as soon as possible and in the most painful way possible because he 'deserved it'; and on ja606 last year I saw a poster say that he wishes any true Nadal fans jumped in a river and was left to rot.

That's all I've got to say really, let's not make false equivalencies. It is true not everything I say about Federer is positive, for example the example with Jankovic comments and him pointing to the wrong mark against Nadal. I don't see him as the best sportsman in the world, and I don't see Nadal there either. As I said the sportsmanship award was flawed as it didn't give a fair chance to players ranked below the top 100 (none of whom were even nominated). As for what HM was saying regarding the GOAT debate, all I'll say is that Fed is statistically the greatest of all time, and in the top tier of GOAT players.

by Jahu Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:50 pm

Don't start Moet'ing the thread.

by Guest Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:52 pm

says the man swigging from a bottle right at this moment Laugh

by It Must Be Love Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:54 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote: says the man swigging from a bottle right at this moment

by Jahu Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:00 pm

These are not videos to be posted on working hours!!!

Umm...

by It Must Be Love Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:03 pm

Jahu wrote:These are not videos to be posted on working hours!!!

Umm...

I thought any video with Justin Timberlake in a blonde wig would mean it's suitable idea

by Jahu Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:04 pm

naughty boy Why Are the Federer and Nadal Fans Locked in Combat 3933776953

by Guest Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:05 pm

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:26 pm

I suppose if we're talking about our own viewpoint, I have recently said that away from tennis both Fed and Rafa seem to be nice, friendly, well-adjusted people - as most tennis players and most people probably are.
I have supported Rafa in FO finals before and in matches at other tournaments, although I'm not overly bothered by the results of either player (or any current player - even Murray to some extent).
I do find more to criticise in Rafa's tennis-related behaviour, but what I've never understood is how any criticism of Rafa (e.g. I don't like the time he takes between points, I didn't like his attempt to get a 2 year ranking system) is met with accusations of me being a Rafa hater, and often, by extension, a Fed fan (because no-one would criticise Rafa if they weren't a Fed fan?). Any criticism of Rafa is met with accusations of being a hater - I don't get that to be honest and it is certainly one aspect that leads to a combative environment.
I don't think Fed is a saint, nor do I think Rafa is a saint. No-one is.

by It Must Be Love Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:30 pm

JuliushMarx wrote:Any criticism of Rafa is met with accusations of being a hater - I don't get that to be honest and it is certainly one aspect that leads to a combative environment.
I don't think Fed is a saint, nor do I think Rafa is a saint. No-one is.

Agreed no one is a saint. (Apart from the saints maybe Wink

)
As for 'haters'... people who criticise Nadal and Federer aren't necessarily haters. However if you either constantly call him by a derogatory name, or say you wish injury upon him etc.- then I'd class that as someone who hates Nadal.

by temporary21 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 1:43 pm

It's all about the extremists. Most people are pretty moderate on both sides of the fence . Then one idiot decides to have a go and suddenly everyone starts off making sweeping statements about both players and each other. People like that look for a reaction and people often take if hook line and sinker. Easiest way to stop it is to simply disengage and not try to Argue or justify either extreme viewpoint. The vocal minority shouldn't have to ruin it for everyone else

by Haddie-nuff Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:03 pm

temporary21 wrote:It's all about the extremists. Most people are pretty moderate on both sides of the fence . Then one idiot decides to have a go and suddenly everyone starts off making sweeping statements about both players and each other. People like that look for a reaction and people often take if hook line and sinker. Easiest way to stop it is to simply disengage and not try to Argue or justify either extreme viewpoint. The vocal minority shouldn't have to ruin it for everyone else

Obviouslly, because of the time difference, I have only just managed to get back to the forum
Thank you fellow posters your comments are both interesting and informative.
For my part I really am not interested or indeed prepared to enter into discussion as to who is or will be the GOAT when Nadal's career is not yet over.
However, whilst all here know where my allegiance lies I have never on any occasion said I HATE Fed. Yes I do not like him, for reasons which are purely my own and not worth discussion, but never ever have I denied his contribution to the sport or his skill or ability. In short he may well be the GOAT and I wont argue that. I feel pretty much the same about Novak.. he takes a fair amount of stick also, but again his tennis ability is without question. But it heartens me that in spite of their intense rivalry they are good friends.. and what we may see in each of them. . is at odds with what they see in each other

by temporary21 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:21 pm

I see very few of you who have ever been here haters at all. One problem is fans of both sides hold their player in such high regard that even a moderate position seems offensive to them. Anything even slightly not complimentary even from a neutral stance looks like an attack , they have a go and boom... No one here is hateful from my view but the misunderstanding of such makes people angry we just need an understanding that a difference of opinion isn't an attack and we mostly understand that here

by DirectView2 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:46 pm

I don't agree its purely due to Fed fans I would put the blame on both, Rafa fans has shown a lot of hatred to Fed and the vice versa.

You don't see a Fed fan opening a thread every alternate day complaining Rafa didn't deserve this title, his character is bad, he didn't deserve these awards, these are mostly done by Rafa fans to provoke Fed fans.

On the other hand, Fed fans cannot accept Rafa could get the title as GOAT and end up over celebrating every loss of his infuriating Rafa fans.

While both the players have great respect for each other, its time both the set of fans learn from their idols.

Last but not least, its always the kids who point fingers at the other section rather than accepting the blame themselves.

Also some of the Fed haters are Pete fans in disguise as Rafa fans, that brings needless tension.

Hatred is a wrong word and wrong act, if only everybody focussed on love/like of the favorite and ignore the rest of the fact then there would be no fight, but what happens is everybody is more interested in hating their idol's opponent than showing the love to their favs.

by DirectView2 Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:53 pm

socal1976 wrote:
lags72 wrote:
socal1976 wrote:I think it mainly comes from Federer fans frankly haddie. I think a portion of them take it personally that in an otherwise sparkling and blemishless career that Fed's one -sided rivalry with Nadal another player who is still close to his all time grandslam record should leave Fed's goathood in some doubt. I don't see the same venom directed from Nadal fans towards Federer. But watching Nadal routinely beat up their hero and take his lunch money in slam finals has scared some of them beyond reason.

So there you have it. Look no further than socal's analysis to understand who is mostly responsible for creating the mood of 'combat' referenced by H-n (and which does indeed exist, sadly). We can rely on a neat, simple explanation from socal - albeit not as simple as it being a two-way street, where blame could realistically be apportioned evenly.

It's an explanation which on the one hands purports to be rational & objective, but which also conveniently just happens to link back to so much of the negative comment directed towards Federer by socal himself on so many threads over so many years.

That said, I'm always wary of the terms "Federer fans" or " Nadal fans" used in this sort of context. If it were indeed as clear-cut as socal says, then one might wonder why it is so easy to find similar amounts of 'venom' directed towards Federer as towards Nadal. The venom appears not only on relatively small-audience Forums such as 606, but across all manner of other web & print media - not least the Facebook pages of the ATP, where there is a constant (and at times unbelievably abusive) amount of hatred directed at both players and in seemingly even measure.

In truth, the venom that socal claims to originate from "Federer fans" doesn't come from fans of ANY description. To my mind, it doesn't even come from fans of the sport of tennis. Similarly, the hatred towards Federer doesn't come from Nadal "fans". I concluded long ago that much, if not all, of the most intense variety of hate-filled venom (directed at BOTH players) comes instead from a group of people who might more appropriately be described not as fans, but as childish morons.

Blame isn't always a two way street. I don't see endless accusations of PED use, rule violations, fake injuries etc. on other forums directed at Federer. In fact, Federer rarely gets negative coverage of any kind online or in the media. While Federer fans run rampant online directing wild accusations and hatefilled taunts at Nadal, his fans, and his style of play. I just call it the way I see it. This forum believe it or not used to me (lone Djokovic fan), a couple of Murray fans, and all Nadal fans. Not a single Roger fan in site. There was no fighting then, not at all. A certain federer fan and a cadre of his supporters arrived, most of whom are gone right now and all of a sudden the fireworks started. So from my own experience I remember this forum when it was smaller, and there existed a smattering of Novak and Murray fans and mainly Nadal fans, and there was no fighting ever between the various factions. The people who were fed fans came in and all of sudden we had weekly seminars of certain posters diagnosing Nadal's urine and blood content from watching him on TV and endless moonballer posts.

I don't see the large numbers of derogatory anti-fed posts by Nadal fans on the forums I have visited but I do see on virtually every forum the vitriol directed at Nadal and his fans by fed fans or at least self styled Fed fans.

As for not liking a player, I think you are all free to it and in fact I kind of like the p*ss and vinegar in the debates anyway. And I don't like Federer in general, and make no bones about it. I direct a small fraction of the venom towards Federer that the legion of his fans direct at other players and as usual some can dish it but can't take it.

Before accusing Fed fans, how many times have you accused Fed for everything from farting to shanking, you need to look at yourself first at mirror to understand the mistake before complaining others had one.

You may be a good poster in general but certainly a very provocative poster and it will never cease given your hatred for Federer, so why whine when you get the same treatment back? laughing

by Haddie-nuff Thu 13 Nov 2014, 2:54 pm

DV I would rather you have said SOME Fed fans/Rafa fans .. rather than such a blanket statement. Ive seen it happen on both sides by some fans of both but to say that hatred has not been shown in the past, would be an untruth.
Hopefully now that such views can be kept purely to thought without the need to voice it. It is not possible to like or be liked all or even part of the time.. that goes with views about players.imo

by kingraf Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:25 pm

So, not as Cathartic as my "I hate Djokovic" thread then?

Anyway, can't really fathom hating a player, who is after all, a person I've never met in my life. I don't even hate Luis Suárez, and he's bitten like three people. I will say that some of the vitriol I've read on Nadal has bordered on ridiculous..
And at times, crossed that border, and reached the land of pure idiotic. I remember when Nadal won the Aus Open, with those back to back fivers, and fans swore up and down that there's no way he's done that clean... Five short years later, Djokovic has had an eleven hour tennis weekend to win a slam, and Nishikori beat Djokovic having had back to back five setters. I suspect the anti-Nadal brigade are not so much anti Nadal as they are luddites who are afraid of progress.

by kingraf Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:26 pm

As for Federer, well, he is South African... so I have to like him

by bogbrush Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:47 pm

fanboys & fangirls aren't worth listening to. They are amusing but annoying, in equal measure.

Myself, I'm just selfish in that I favour the player who gives me what I want. I want Federer to win things because as far as I'm concerned he plays the game the way it should be played. I feel mostly the opposite about Nadal. That's just how it is and it isn't helped because I don't really like the way I see Rafa indulge in what I see as a lot of gamesmanship.

I was the same with McEnroe (regarding his play, not his behaviour) and in the opposite way, for example, Muster (urg, hideous to watch imho).

One big exception was Borg, who I really liked, and I also liked Lendl because personally I thought he battled his general shyness and discomfort against the thuggish Connors. It really annoyed me when Jimmy beat him in those US Open finals.

by Haddie-nuff Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:48 pm

kingraf wrote:As for Federer, well, he is South African... so I have to like him

I agree KR I suppose one of my reasons for backing Rafa is that I lived in Spain for 14yrs albeit I have not changed since. But I tend to agree with your previous post too in some respects...Hope that is in the past however

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