Roach says Ray Robinson would F#*CKING destroy Mayweather

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Hall of Fame trainer Freddie Roach has lashed out at Floyd Mayweather Jr., for claiming to be the "best fighter of all-time." And Mayweather also stated in multiple interviews that he's even better than "Sugar" Ray Robinson (173-19-6, 108KOs) - who many experts regard as the greatest fighter to ever lace up a pair of gloves. Floyd's uncle/trainer Roger Mayweather also views Robinson as the greatest of all-time.

Roach believes Mayweather is carefully selecting his opponents, because he wants to retain his undefeated record at all costs.

"He wants to stay undefeated, because as long as he's undefeated he can say that he's better than everyone else out there. He says that he's better than Sugar Ray Robinson, because Robinson has lost fights before. Does anyone really think that? Not real fight people, no. I mean Robinson would f***ing destroy him. Let's face it, [Robinson is] a much better fighter, but the thing is he has losses on his record so Mayweather can say that he's better than these guys because he's undefeated. That zero means so much to him that he won't take a chance. He won't fight any fighter who has a pulse," Roach said.

Raf Morales also beat Manny at one time and Manny also got knocked out twice years ago. Castillo did nick a close decision but my question stands. Who has ever outclassed or destroyed Mayweather?

AdamT wrote:He didn't outbox Wlad 3 fights out of 4 then knock him out on the fourth. Though to answer your question, he was a better fighter that night.

Marquez is better than Pacquiao head to head. He should of won the first fight and was robbed in the 3rd. I would maybe give the 2nd fight to Manny but the rest? No chance.

You said that Floyd had to beat Manny to be better than him. Fair enough are you then telling me that Marquez is better than Manny? Forget records, you said Floyds only chance to prove him self is to beat Pacquiao. By using that logic then JMM is definitely better.

I apologize for keep going over the same ground but Manny fans can't have it both ways. If Floyd isn't better than Manny then that is an opinion but if I state that Marquez is better than Manny then that would be fact.

Sanders is better than Klitschko. He didnt need 4 fights to dominate him. He just needed a few rounds.

He should have won the first fight and lost the second fight by 7-5 on two cards. Only difference is Mayweather realised he probably isn't going to decisively best this guy and stopped going to the well. Pacquiao didn't.

Four years earlier Pacquiao had a fight vs Dela Hoya, who would you have fought? Maybe Márquez wasn't a legitimate Welterweight (although for whatever reason he's certainly looked it post Angel), but neither is Pacquiao.

Fair enough, its a pity Marquez didn't keep getting robbed or he wouldn't of had to put Manny to sleep to finally put to bed who the better boxer really is.

I thought over the last two years I'd put up a case convincing enough to at least have Sanders over Wlad? I mean come on!!

Guys good debate and I really am trying not to be a wum. I do keep asking though, who has ever outclassed Floyd?

Nobody. And?

Hey presto....


We have TBE

To be honest I thought/think Castillo beat him handily.

The best ever is SRR. Floyd is a TW.t for saying that but you have to sell yourself.

Imo he is the best of the era. The opinion being the magic word. If you guys disagree that's cool. Its good to debate like adults though.I respect everyone opinions weather I agree or not

Wouldn't say handy but he definitely nicked a decision I can concede that. Wasn't outclassed or destroyed though

In the lower weight classes, where I think Mayweather was better as a fighter, he didnt have the luxury of cherry picking his opponent. He almost (should have) come a cropper against Castillo. But thats what can happen when you have to fight top names near the top of their game.

As a welterweight Mayweather systematically avoided the tough fights and waited for the big names in the division to fade off before adding them to his record. Its a B or C Lister record of welterweights where the names he didnt fight look better than the names he did fight.

It was pretty clear. Definitely not nicked.

Pretty clear fair enough. Not as clear as Manny and Marquez plus Floyd did prove who was better in rematch. Something Manny did with Morales but couldn't do with Marquez

I agree Floyd has been carefully managed at times. Not to the point his haters claim but I can not deny he sometimes will go the easier route. To be fair Manny isn't far behind him in recent years. Both guys like advantages and that is one reason they have never fought.

It was by a round or two at most Raf, it was hardly a clear win either way.

In short Pacquiao is better than anything he fought but Catchy will like to make out that Margarito and Williams with patchy form were avoided.

Good debate guys have to hit the hay. 4 month baby has a habit of wakening me up

Take care chat again

Pacquiao, Cotto, Williams, Margarito were all side stepped in favour of a blown up Hatton and Marquez and an old ring rusty Mosley.

Would that be the very same old Shane Mosley who obliterated Margarito, a fighter who's reputation is in tatters anyway because of the hand wrap incident. Is it also the Paul Williams who was getting himself in line for the big fights but derailed himself by losing to Quintana but you are right as usual both were side stepped.

Hatton wasn't a blown up Welterweight anyway, he just had less weight to cut, he was a huge 140lber who was bigger than Mayweather anyway, it was also the fight the public wanted to see.

Then you call Marquez blown up yet a minute ago you were saying he was a top Welterweight or is he only that when he's facing Pacquiao?

It was the 40 year old grandpa Mosley who hadnt fought in about 18 months and was blowing after three rounds.

Williams was a far tougher fight than Hatton. If Mayweather found Maidana tough going he would be up sh1ts creek against Williams.

And Marquez was a fat lightweight with no welterweight experience or time to grow into the division when Mayweather shated him on a catchweight fight. He was a ripped welterweight backed by a potions guru when he knocked Pacquiao out.

What we'll do is use a 37 year old Mayweather fighting a guy nothing like Williams to suggest a fight which would have been routine would be one he'd actually lose. I see your Maidana and I raise you Quintana.

I see your Quintana and raise you Williams.

Mayweathers folds.

Adam are you going for nicest poster in the christmas awards?

I think most of us would agree Robbo destroys Mayweather...........

Mayweather started at 130....

Think Robbo destroys Armstrong at 147/154........

Destroys Manny as well as JMM and the rest...

Still while he's popping at Floyd he's leaving Jewish people alone.

Tough to see anyone beating him in this form, fingers. He's in imperiously nice form. Might make us all some muffins for Christmas

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Pacquiao definitely in recent years, Khan to an extent and well Provodnikov is just garbage.

Who has Pac been protected from?

AdamT wrote:Well I still believe both teams are to blame.

Tell me one time Floyd was knocked out or outclassed during a fight. I don't mean a close fight that could of went either way like Castillo, but one time were he was flat on his back or made look an amateur.

The answer is easier if I ask you the same for Manny.

Totally agree.

Now name someone Floyd's taken on that compares with Morales twice and Barrera twice down at the prime fighting weights and ages??

Point being, Manny has higher highs and lower lowers, Floyd is more about the consistency, outclassing and unbeaten record of such a sustained period of time.

Agree with both sides on this one but side more with the likes of Hammer and Adam.

Also, on a side note, where does this "cherry picking" thing come from?!

Floyd in the past few years has fought:

Maidana x 2
Saul Canelo Alvarez
Robert Guerrero
Victor Ortiz
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley


Pacquiao:

Miguel Cotto
Joshua Clottey
Shane Mosley
Jaun Manuel Marquez x 2
Brandon Rios
Chris Algieri
Bradley x 2

Now comparing those...Well....Floyd fought Mosley before Pacman did......but yet Pacman fought Cotto before Floyd.

Rios is a garbage fighter....a lot worse than Guerrero and Maidana....hell...even Ortiz.

Marquez beat Manny in the 3rd (I believe) and he knocked him cold in the 4th....Floyd outclassed him.

Tim Bradley has 1 win over Manny and 1 loss.....but is he as good or as big as Canelo Alvarez, the guy many tipped Floyd would avoid or be too small against? Nope...don't think he is.

Clottey and Ortiz I put in the same bracket.

Floyd will now potentially fight Khan next May.....is he better or worse than Algieri?

So who has cherry picked who because if Floyd "certainly" has, then Pacquiao just as much...if not worse ....and come off worse too.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Pacquiao definitely in recent years, Khan to an extent and well Provodnikov is just garbage.

Who has Pac been protected from?

Any Golden boy fighter Toppy, it can be thrown at Mayweather too but Thurman, Porter and Brook (not GBP) represent tougher fights than Algieri, Rios, Maidana or Khan.

I find Manny/Floyd debates to be like Republican/Democrat ones............

You big up your candidates policies while chucking JMM at Manny.........

Or you say Manny has fought everyone and the other candidate is a cowardly cherry picker...

Lot's of pros and cons for each party.........

Whilst I think Floyd is top 10 both are Top 20..........and have had truly amazing careers with longevity and with quality wins............

But I mean Roach criticising Floyd or Roger criticising Manny is like Fox news popping at Obama...Or MSNBC popping at Romney !!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Pacquiao definitely in recent years, Khan to an extent and well Provodnikov is just garbage.

Who has Pac been protected from?

Any Golden boy fighter Toppy, it can be thrown at Mayweather too but Thurman, Porter and Brook (not GBP) represent tougher fights than Algieri, Rios, Maidana or Khan.  

I didn't think Pac was known for avoiding any of those, certainly no more than Floyd. So still not 100% sure who/what you're getting at, no offence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.............Old timers fought to provide food for their families and had little control over their careers......

Stupid to think If they lived in these days of options and greater control........They would pick the hard option everytime....

Unfortunately people like Haz (Who is lucky enough not to be married or have a family I imagine) think these guys were all about the glory of the Sport..

It's bollox....

Yep Floyd should have fought Manny...But we are living in different times..

Worse times..For sure !!............But different times... with different rules !!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again.............Old timers fought to provide food for their families and had little control over their careers......

Stupid to think If they lived in these days of options and greater control........They would pick the hard option everytime....

Unfortunately people like Haz (Who is lucky enough not to be married or have a family I imagine) think these guys were all about the glory of the Sport..

It's bollox....

Yep Floyd should have fought Manny...But we are living in different times..

Worse times..For sure !!............But different times...  with different rules !!

If we're excusing Floyd for not fighting Pacquiao because of the current climate, why did Ward fight Froch? Why did Donaire fight Montiel/Walters? Why did Pacquiao fight Morales, Barrera and Marquez (umpteen times). Why did any of the current crop fight their biggest rivals? Ok, you could argue it provided their biggest payday but wouldn't Pac/May have smashed box-office records, too?

I understand it's a different climate. Robinson could be a right one at the negotiating table and had to be press-ganged into fighting Fulmer, Basilio etc. at middleweight by Jim Norris but would he have passed on Pacquiao if he was here today? Would Leonard? And should we be excusing Floyd for being a product of his time?

The greatest fighters have the greatest egos. Ali couldn't have passed on Frazier and Foreman. Leonard couldn't have passed on Hearns and Duran. Great fighters crave great challenges.

People like Haz? I'm not a leper! I'm married with a family as it goes, not sure what that has to do with anything?

I haven't excused him..............

Just saying it's folly to think old fighters all fought for the glory of themselves and the sport...

and to say with options they wouldn't have milked belts...

The old days were better in the respect of fighters fighting the best......

But times have changed..

mobilemaster8 wrote:Agree with both sides on this one but side more with the likes of Hammer and Adam.

Also, on a side note, where does this "cherry picking" thing come from?!

Floyd in the past few years has fought:

Maidana x 2
Saul Canelo Alvarez
Robert Guerrero
Victor Ortiz
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley


Pacquiao:

Miguel Cotto
Joshua Clottey
Shane Mosley
Jaun Manuel Marquez x 2
Brandon Rios
Chris Algieri
Bradley x 2

Now comparing those...Well....Floyd fought Mosley before Pacman did......but yet Pacman fought Cotto before Floyd.

Rios is a garbage fighter....a lot worse than Guerrero and Maidana....hell...even Ortiz.

Marquez beat Manny in the 3rd (I believe) and he knocked him cold in the 4th....Floyd outclassed him.

Tim Bradley has 1 win over Manny and 1 loss.....but is he as good or as big as Canelo Alvarez, the guy many tipped Floyd would avoid or be too small against? Nope...don't think he is.

Clottey and Ortiz I put in the same bracket.

Floyd will now potentially fight Khan next May.....is he better or worse than Algieri?

So who has cherry picked who because if Floyd "certainly" has, then Pacquiao just as much...if not worse ....and come off worse too.

I think Pacquiao's recent oppo pips Mayweathers (Pacquiao fought better version of Marquez, an unbeaten Bradley and a better Cotto). It's close, though.

Pacquiao's opposition prior to Oscar, though, was superior. They belong together in an all-time sense (as it stands) with a slight edge to Pac due to quality of opposition:

Barrera x 2
Morales x 3
Marquez x 4
Bradley x 2

He also performed better jobs on Oscar, Hatton, Cotto and Mosley.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I haven't excused him..............

Just saying it's folly to think old fighters all fought for the glory of themselves and the sport...

and to say with options they wouldn't have milked belts...

The old days were better in the respect of fighters fighting the best......

But times have changed..

Why then did Hopkins seek out Stevenson/Kovalev?

Has Algieri ever fought at 147 ??..

Seems like a pointless exercise ....

Anyone missing D4 can view his latest article on another forum..

"Is Hopkins the greatest American boxer this Century ??"..........

What a sad sack of s**te..............Eternally grateful we haven't got him on here....

I did say Toppy that the pair of them have no interest facing the best of the young guns, Bradley is a solid fighter but there's nothing he excels at to worry the top top men.

Mayweather has always fought good (not necessarily great) opponents and won handily 99% of the time. What gets people is that there is always the sense that he has done so when he is sure that the odds are in his favour. Pacquaio has better wins, Floyd has shown less weakness, people will be debating that one for decades to come. What we're missing is the fight that would give us something that even approaches a consensus, and with where they are in their respective careers, any contest between them would be regarded as another point in the argument rather than the final word.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I did say Toppy that the pair of them have no interest facing the best of the young guns, Bradley is a solid fighter but there's nothing he excels at to worry the top top men.

Was this in ref to the 'protected' comment, as I'm still not sure this answers it. Who has Pac been protected from, other than Mayweather?

Probably agree with that haz although I'm on the reverse thinking in that its closer competition early on with the likes of Barrera, morales and JMM...comparing to the likes of Castillo, Corrales and Hernandez....but pacman probably pips him there.

The past few years post cotto I give to Floyd....again very close though.


To be fair the bottom line is they will bother be Future HOF fighters.....remembered for different things.

Pacman for his explosive and destructive style and rise through the weights....and Floyd's art and craft of technic ability.

Both supreme though in my eyes.

Couple of sarcastic marks for me being nice.

well how about anybody that compares Manny with Floyd is a f.....g idiot and should argue over football.

Is that better

The only way Floyd could prove he is better than Manny is in the ring,am I right?

Marquez is the best then because he has proved his superiority over Manny time and time again.

Marquez IS a better boxer than Manny, that is a fact.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I did say Toppy that the pair of them have no interest facing the best of the young guns, Bradley is a solid fighter but there's nothing he excels at to worry the top top men.

Was this in ref to the 'protected' comment, as I'm still not sure this answers it.  Who has Pac been protected from, other than Mayweather?

I'd say the pair are being protected from young powerful or quick guys, on the whole they've fought boxers tailormade for them.

Bradley is rightfully ranked higher than Brook and Thurman but is he more dangerous, I have my doubts.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I did say Toppy that the pair of them have no interest facing the best of the young guns, Bradley is a solid fighter but there's nothing he excels at to worry the top top men.

Was this in ref to the 'protected' comment, as I'm still not sure this answers it.  Who has Pac been protected from, other than Mayweather?

I'd say the pair are being protected from young powerful or quick guys, on the whole they've fought boxers tailormade for them.

Bradley is rightfully ranked higher than Brook and Thurman but is he more dangerous, I have my doubts.

Firstly, Brook only recently became a player in the division and is currently out of action.

Thurman is affiliated with GBP and so isn't a viable opponent for Pacquiao due to the promotional/TV divide. Thurman doesn't fit the profile for a Floyd opponent (mexican/hispanic fanbase).

On the Arum/HBO side, Pacquiao has almost exhausted his opposition: Marquez, Bradley, Rios and Provodnikiv/Algieri (he was pegged to face Provodnikov until Algieri pulled off the upset). Who exactly has he avoided on that side of the mess?

On the flip side, Porter, Brook, Khan, Alexander and Thurman are on the Showtime side of the fence where Floyd resides.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I did say Toppy that the pair of them have no interest facing the best of the young guns, Bradley is a solid fighter but there's nothing he excels at to worry the top top men.

Was this in ref to the 'protected' comment, as I'm still not sure this answers it.  Who has Pac been protected from, other than Mayweather?

I'd say the pair are being protected from young powerful or quick guys, on the whole they've fought boxers tailormade for them.

Bradley is rightfully ranked higher than Brook and Thurman but is he more dangerous, I have my doubts.

Agree on the latter, but on the former I'd say Pac has fought a greater variety of opponent (maybe lacking the 'afro american slickster', since I'd not really count SSM) - that he kept fighting JMM despite him clearly being anything but tailor-made for him is testament to that.

You can't use the divide as an excuse as when you wish, they should both be facing better opponents and both have taken an easy option on various occassions.

Mayweathers cherry picking began from the de la Hoya fight days. He had a decent welterweight division in front of him (although terribly modest compared to circa 2000 and not a patch on the early 80s). He had boxers like Cotto, Margarito, Williams and Mosley in there. After a past it de la Hoya gave him a tough fight he opted to call up Ricky Hatton and retire then while the top welters, soon joined by Pacquiao fought it out amongst themselves. Mayweather arrived back on the scene and opted for.....Marquez. Then scarcely a lightweight nevermind a welterweight. He shafted a tubby Marquez on a catchweight agreement and then vultured on a 40 year old Mosley who had hadnt fought in well over year. After that it was about finding the latest hispanic hope to flog on the ppv market.

He didnt clear out the division or face the toughest challenges. An opportunist who perogative was carefully selecting fights to maximise his bank balance for as little risk possible. A talented fighter yes, but all these paudits when he never beat a fighter that could even be said to be a match for a peak de la Hoya never mind a Duran, Hearns or a Leonard. And he made every excuse under the sun for not facing the the one guy in the division that might have been up in that bracket.

You don't half talk some nonsense.

S..t era for boxing then. The top fighter is a ducker and the only 8 division belt holder can't even beat an old Mexican.Also our 17.5 stone athletic heavyweight loses to any past great with a pulse even if they are cruisers.

Sad times!

On a serious note, Floyd and Manny don't half divide opinion.

Rumor has it they are actually in serious negotiations. I will believe it when I see it but if it does happen it could be a good fight. Both fighters are slightly past it but both will do everything to win. Its still the biggest fight out there.

I would still love to see this one. I believe Floyd would win a UD but if Manny can come in with some of the attitude that Maidana brought to the table then he could get an upset. He should certainly be motivated enough given the long wait for this fight and that fact that he will be seen as an underdog at this point. Hope it gets made - will be a total waste if not.