Aftermath of Saunders vs Eubank Jr

The fight went as I thought, with Saunders winning on points albeit I predicted he would win by a greater margin.

For me, a big part of Eubank's loss was his opposition until last night. He fought people his team/promoter were 99% sure he'd beat and fell every time he connected with a power shot which gave him a false sense of confidence and superiority.

He also never fought someone to stop him doing his stupid bad habits/showboating and looked for large parts clueless against someone who has decent ring craft.

Eubank also appears to have no real structure in his team and needs this at the top level. I remember at the press conference a week or so ago when he said he doesn't have a trainer and Saunders coach looked stunned and said "you must be one in the million then?" He is still a prospect but needs rebuilding and a whole new structure around him.

Eubank surely has to stay at MW where the division is weaker as he'll get torn apart by Groves and Degale let alone the champs at SMW.

A few questions:

1- Do you think Eubank will go back to fighting sub-par opposition or stay at the level i.e. top ranked UK and European fighters?

2- Although Saunders is competent he isn't ready for the top guys at MW although could pick up a fringe belt. Do you think he'll fight for the WBO belt straight away as hinted?

3- Is there any punch stats from the fight? I've looked but can't find any.

He needs to get rid of the old man from his corner who isnt doing him any favours at all with his nonsense. Eubank senior is grand if you want a laugh and like his nonsense but having him as a corner man is a joke.

I thought Eubank didnt offer much outside of natural strength and athleticism. One half of the fight spent doing nothing. The other half exclusively winging in nothing but huge uppercuts. I also thought Saunders was pretty poor in dealing with what Eubank did have to offer considering he is supposed to be an accomplished boxer. If Eubank began like he finished I think Saunders would have been just found himsel out muscled and overpowered by Eubanks windmill style boxing.

catchweight wrote:He needs to get rid of the old man from his corner who isnt doing him any favours at all with his nonsense. Eubank senior is grand if you want a laugh and like his nonsense but having him as a corner man is a joke.

I thought Eubank didnt offer much outside of natural strength and athleticism. One half of the fight spent doing nothing. The other half exclusively winging in nothing but huge uppercuts. I also thought Saunders was pretty poor in dealing with what Eubank did have to offer considering he is supposed to be an accomplished boxer. If Eubank began like he finished I think Saunders would have been just found himsel out muscled and overpowered by Eubanks windmill style boxing.

Spot on.

Eubank for me carries very little power yet fights like a slugger. To even dent opponents he has to fully line up wild swings which someone around European level should be dealing with better than Saunders did. I can't see Saunders making any impact at world level at all really based on last night, seems to be decent at most things but does nothing special and is average across the board with his physical gifts. Eubank for me won't get past British or Euro level, I think he's had top sparring already and is physically much more mature than most prospects but is pretty poor technically which won't change any time soon with his circus act corner.

I thought Eubank deserved to win the fight but it was close. Eubank boxed very well considering his lack of experience and Saunders is no mug. Dont write these guys off. Remember Degale and groves were in a similar situation a few years back and both went on to be world class!

The groves degale fight at least had some technical merit to it. The fight last night had some excitement to it, but it resembled a bar room brawl at times. If Eubank really did give as good as got in sparring against froch and groves, then either they took it easy and were asked to big him up...  or he froze last night (which I mentioned in the fight thread might have been the case.). How bad he looked might have been exaggerated by Saunders being a southpaw, but he looked so clumsy.

Maybe he'll take stock and get some coaching.... It could be a blessing - to date he has by all accounts shunned advice.

Leave his dad at home, get a proper trainer, actually let the corner man give advice. Do that and he could easily fight at European level.

hayemaker wrote:I thought Eubank deserved to win the fight but it was close. Eubank boxed very well considering his lack of experience and Saunders is no mug. Dont write these guys off. Remember Degale and groves were in a similar situation a few years back and both went on to be world class!

No chance, he was throwing and missing all the time. If the object of boxing is to swing and miss then he did a grand job.

My personal assessment is that Eubank Jr. simply does not have the ability to be a top level fighter. He lacked any sort of ring craft and all he really possesses is above average hand speed (on par with Saunders).

He would have been found wanting against a top middleweight with his wild lunging in. He's European level at best.

Saunders is a fringe level contender. Neither of these two come close to the ability Groves or Degale have.

It was evident his corner is a total shambles, his ring craft & footwork were very raw but thats to be expected when his corner consists of his dad, constantly posturing & pouting, A trainer who's only input was "go on beat him up" & "go on f$#@ him up!"

He has got some good attributes but unless he gets some proper guidance he will never improve enough to do much beyong british level.

Ronnie Davies's advice in the corner was stupid no constructive ideasat all

a bit harsh I think, he has got in there too soon, and showed people why you need to time to progress and build.. BJS is a good fighter and may well be a world champ, maybe not the best but still good. He matched him really and lost a close fight. give him 4 or 5 more fights and he would probably win the fight. To much ego though from him and his father. He is not as good as they make out but looks like he is still going to be a handful for most.

Eubanks Jnrs problem is that he is clearly a super middle weight, fighting at middleweight because his thinks the opposition is weaker and his complete lack of skills, footwork and power can be offset by bullying smaller men. Fact of the matter is many of the fans on here and the part time fans elsewhere generally bought into the Eubanks BS based on nothing more than the sentiment of his dads name, when the reality is he is as crude and off balance a fighter as a poor mans Dennis Andres who possesses a decent chin and is very strong but little else. If missing wide arm punches, stumbling over your own feet, holding and hitting, charging in a clueless manner and only throwing uppercuts for 3 minutes were enough at the top level title fights would be held at closing time of the dog and duck in the high street.

For all Eubanks failures though, he basically threw away the fight by doing nothing for six rounds. When he worked, he won the rounds. His corner might have told him that earlier instead of telling him the best way to sit on a stool.

Much of what I want to say has been said already. I will list 3 of the reasons why he lost:

1. He hadn't ever faced a fighter who could cause him the issues BJS could. Didn't know how to set up attacks against a guy with good foot movement. Was off balance a lot of the time and looked amateurish leading with power shots.
2. He has zero respect for his trainer. I think Ronnie should walk. Look at the respect BJS shows Tibbs to Eubank and Ronnie. He told him to shut up at one point, ffs.
3. His dad is proving to be a negative influence. That no talking stuff in between rounds is laughable. Especially when he was losing the rounds. When he did talk,he said thing's like 'beat him up' - really helpful.

The plus points are that Eubank looks to have some natural ability. Needs to learn how to use a jab, be less flat footed, and has to cut out the nonsense. There is so much nonsense I don't know where to begin, but cut it out.

Credit to BJS. I don't know how far he goes but he has just taken 4 undefeated records in a row. Whether those fighters were special or not, they had never lost prior to facing him.

Also, Eubank might want to think about engaging the press a little more now. Considering he lost

If we take Eubank Jr at his word and assume that up until now he has taken no guidance, no real instruction, and has just been living on natural instincts and talent, then he gets credit for that performance.  

If on the other hand if Eubank Snr thinks his son really is the best since SRL, then we must assume he somehow missed Jr tripping over his own feet whilst swinging some great, lunging, wild uppercut, more resembling a move out of "Streets of Rage" (showing my age) than the textbook uppercut, and he needs to polish his monocle.

tunes666 wrote:a bit harsh I think, he has got in there too soon, and showed people why you need to time to progress and build..  BJS is a good fighter and may well be a world champ, maybe not the best but still good. He matched him really and lost a close fight. give him 4 or 5 more fights and he would probably win the fight. To much ego though from him and his father. He is not as good as they make out but looks like he is still going to be a handful for most.

It was his 19th fight!

Are you Kell Brook's biggest fan or something?

Groves challenged Froch for his world title in his 20th fight, Khan won his first world title in his 21st fight and David Haye unified the CW division in his 22nd fight.

As others have mentioned, if Eubank Jr ever wants to succeed then he needs to up the competion and ditch the 'yes men' (incl. his dad) and bring in some professionals.

hayemaker wrote:I thought Eubank deserved to win the fight but it was close. Eubank boxed very well considering his lack of experience and Saunders is no mug. Dont write these guys off. Remember Degale and groves were in a similar situation a few years back and both went on to be world class!

Watch it again sober mate, it was not even close the fact any judge could watch that and think a fighter who was only on top for about 2 and half rounds of a 12 round fighter won makes me despair about the officialdom in boxing in Britain . I had BJS winning by 6 even being very generous to Eubanks Jnr it would be hard to make it less than 4.

catchweight wrote:For all Eubanks failures though, he basically threw away the fight by doing nothing for six rounds. When he worked, he won the rounds. His corner might have told him that earlier instead of telling him the best way to sit on a stool.

If he had started quicker he would have been wiped out by round 8 and probably stopped late exhausted on his feet, he looks like he was struggling for breath at times even while only fighting for 30 seconds a round.

I think it was a fight that gave us more questions than answers, really. Hard to know which of them (if any) we should be pleased with or disappointed with, if they performed well or didn't, if they can / can't get to the top etc.

I said beforehand that my only real concern for Saunders was that he's always looked like a guy who should be at Light-Middle, but who campaigns at 160 because he just doesn't take his diet or conditioning seriously enough to drop that extra bit of weight. He's openly said before that he is prone to blowing up between fights, cuts corners if he thinks he can get away with it and usually ends up struggling to make weight. The pace of the first six or seven rounds wasn't particularly high at all, and yet Saunders still looked leggy and ragged as the fight got towards the late stages - and as a result, a fight against a guy who hasn't got nearly as many skills as him ended up being close.

I still think he's got plenty of talent in there, but his boxing does seem to have hit a bit of a wall over the last eighteen months. Watching him against Pryce and Fletcher I thought he looked as if he was developing at a great rate and would be more than ready for anyone in the division barring Golovkin by now, but he seems to have plateaued a bit. He's got plenty of speed and has a very good variety of punches, but his power hasn't come on the way I thought it would and his defence keeps getting more and more porous as fights wear on.

As for Eubank, well he's proved that he's not just a gimmick and that he can fight a bit. But while he's clearly an athletic guy he's not exactly awash with skill and his ring IQ has to be questioned after he basically made it as easy as possible for Saunders to bag a 2-3 rounds lead the other night (more fool him if he's letting his old man's attention-seeking impact him in that respect). In terms of ability he's not even in the same class as Saunders and yet if he'd have applied himself a bit better early on he could conceivably have won the fight.

Is Saunders not as good as we thought, or is Eubank just better than we gave him credit before, despite the fact that he fails the eye test? Do we applaud Sanders for digging in (no quit in either man, to be fair) and holding on to win, or do we point out the fact that he probably shouldn't have even been struggling like that in the first place? Is Eubank Jr ready to advance up a level, or did Saunders' own poor performance flatter him?

Either way, Saunders desperately needs to work on his conditioning and Eubank Jr I'm sorry to say needs to give his old man the elbow, or at least put him in a back seat. Either Ronnie Davis is your chief second or he's not. What exactly did father contribute to son's cause the other night?

The problem was Chris that the kid had never been past 8 and was worried about gassing late on....

But the kid surprised me....He had no right to nearly win that fight at his stage..

The only real criticism is by the disappointed types who wanted him to win..

I was disappointed with both. I've never rated BJS as highly as some - hence the reason I felt Eubank would win. Eubank, though, was atrocious (aside from the guts he showed in trying to pour it on Saunders down the stretch).

Had Eubank had Tibbs as his cornerman (with Snr. ejected) he'd have won this.

I thought a draw wouldn't have been an outrageous result.

I thought Eubank looked terrible. All he seemed to do was rush at BJS and try and throw bombs, missing with most of them as BJS danced around the ring. Don't think either covered themselves in glory though but at least BJS mentioned that he weren't ready for the world scene.

Think Eubank needs to reasses what he wants to do and why he wants to box. Get rid of his old man apart from him sitting in the crowd and watching and start again.
Think if his name was Chris Smith Jr people wouldn't be so quick to talk him up.

Here are the media scores:

Average score, 115-113 for Saunders

Media scores:
Barry Jones (Boxnation TV): 115-113 Saunders

John Wharton (Freelance): 115-113 Saunders

Mathew Mojica (FightSource): 115-113 Saunders

Andy Paterson (BoxingAsylum): 116-112 Saunders

Adam Canavan (BoxingMadMagazine): 116-112 Saunders

Kurt Ward (BoxingAsylum): 115-113 Saunders

Ron Lewis (The Times): 115-113 Saunders

I Edit Boxing: 114-114 DRAW***

Alex Morris (BoxingAsylum): 116-112 Saunders

Phil D Jay (WorldBoxingNews): 114-114 DRAW***

Adam Abramowitz (SaturdayNightBoxing): 115-113 Saunders

Tom Gray (Ring Magazine): 116-113 Saunders

Scott Christ (BadLeftHook): 115-113 Saunders

LeaveItInTheRingRadio: 115-113 Saunders

Fighters Rated: 116-112 Saunders

Shaun Brown (TheFightCity): 114-114 DRAW***

John Hoolan (Freelance): 115-113 Saunders

Box Talk: 115-113 Saunders

Beau Denison (TheBoxingTruth): 115-113 Saunders

Victor M Salazar (ThaBoxingVoice) : 115-113 Saunders

Dan Rafael (ESPN) : 116-112 Saunders

Boxing Guru: 115-113 Eubank Jnr **

Pro Boxing Fans: 115-113 Saunders

John Evans (LiveFight): 116-113 Saunders

Brian Campbell (ESPN): 116-112 Saunders

Paul Smith Jnr (SKY TV): 115-113 Saunders

Steve Adams Jnr (PunchPerfectPugilism): 114-114 DRAW***

FirstClassBoxing: 115-113 Saunders

Tommy Allan (BoxingAsylum): 116-112 Saunders

Livefight: 116-113 Saunders

Wolfgang Schiffbauer (Sturm Promotions): 115-113 Eubank Jnr**

Andy Clarke (Boxnation TV): 115-114 Saunders

Instant Boxing: 115-113 Saunders

TheBoxingBrains: 115-114 Saunders

EBoxingnews: 115-113 Saunders

Ryan Bivins (SweetBoxing): 114-114 DRAW***

Paul Daley (TopClassBoxing): 114-114 DRAW***

Andrew McKart (FirstClassBoxing): 115-113 Saunders

No Holds Barred: 116-112 Eubank Jnr **

Nigel Collins (ESPN FNFs ): 115-114 Saunders

Terry Dooley ( BoxingScene): 116-112 Saunders

Rob Palmer (CheckHookBoxing): 114-114 DRAW***

Ciaran Shanks (Irvine Times): 117-112 Saunders

Will just rationalise that for you:

Barry Jones (Boxnation TV): 115-113 Saunders
Mathew Mojica (FightSource): 115-113 Saunders
Ron Lewis (The Times): 115-113 Saunders
Tom Gray (Ring Magazine): 116-113 Saunders
Scott Christ (BadLeftHook): 115-113 Saunders
Shaun Brown (TheFightCity): 114-114 DRAW***
Dan Rafael (ESPN) : 116-112 Saunders
John Evans (LiveFight): 116-113 Saunders
Brian Campbell (ESPN): 116-112 Saunders
Paul Smith Jnr (SKY TV): 115-113 Saunders
Nigel Collins (ESPN FNFs ): 115-114 Saunders
Terry Dooley ( BoxingScene): 116-112 Saunders

I still think people were more interested in the Eubank name, rsther than how he actually did.

Wow, almost nobody had it for Eubank Jr then?

... Only the visually impaired toppy.

It was closish by the end but really hard to find enough rounds for Eubank. I think that spread of cards is about right. 115-113 as generous as you could get for him I felt.

I agree fully Chris, I'm left in a state of bewilderment over the pair to be honest, absolutely no idea what level they are at. I wanted Eubank to win but neither impressed me, junior was ragged and lacking in skill while Saunders should have dealt with him more comfortably. What worried me the most was how Saunders was unable to cope with wild uppercuts and the stamina of both looked poor.

I saw it a similar way to milky, and by the looks of things most other observers, too.

Saunders won six rounds clearly and without any equivocation, for me. On top of that there were another one or two where he probably did enough, or at least kept things even. I can't see any way anyone could have Eubank ahead, and I think you'd need to give him quite a lot of the benefit of the doubt to have it a draw....Though a share of the spoils wouldn't have been outrageous I guess, just a bit kinder and more favourable to Eubank than Saunders.

Hammersmith, good points about the uppercuts, which was Eubank's money punch. Saunders never really looked like he could adapt or make that adjustment, which is worrying for a guy who is marketed as a smart, technical boxer. It's all a bit up in the air with the pair of them now. Eubank probably emerges with his reputation more enhanced than Saunders does, because on paper he shouldn't have been able to compete on such an equal footing, but at the same time neither guy's performance really suggested top-line quality.

Anyone's guess which way Saunders-Korobov/Lee is going to go.

Eubanks was awful, he never nearly won or looked like winning. To me watching his wild swings missing by feet not inches i reckon he should give up boxing and become a wind turbine, combined with his Dads hot air they could power the whole South Coast.

115-113 was spot on in my opinion, from the 7th onwards Eubank was the aggressor with the high work rate landing the heavier shots. At no point did Eubank look hurt but on a couple of occassions Saunders was wobbled and forced to hold on.

I had it 115-113 too, could conceivably score it as a draw I guess, but don't see how Eubank did enough to win.

Actually a fairly easy fight to score, most rounds were pretty clear one way or the other, hence scorecards which don't differ much overall.

Bit of an odd fight truth be told. Eubank did nothing much for the first 5 rounds, then came into it, but he was incredibly wild. Sure he looks strong, fit and athletic, but not sure the fundamentals are there. BJS should be worried he let him get close-ish to nicking it despite looking by far the better boxer...

I gave BJS 8 of the 12 so i have it pretty wide, i think when the first half of a fight is so one sided there is a tendency score more sympathetically to the fighter who makes a bit better fist of it later in the fight, when in reality apart from barging in swinging wild uppercuts he didnt really do much to win many of the later rounds either as BJS was still landed more and using some nice skills to turn off the ropes.

Tea

milkyboy wrote:... Only the visually impaired toppy.

It was closish by the end but really hard to find enough rounds for Eubank. I think that spread of cards is about right. 115-113 as generous as you could get for him I felt.

No surprise Woodhall had it for Eubank then.

By a shut out, until someone told him Saunders was British too... Then he called it a draw.

Dont understand anyone who could have eubank winning

Watched it last night, gave Saunders 1st-5th & 8th-10th, so 116-112.

Fairly clear cut, baffles me how anyone could come up with a draw, let alone a Eubank Jr win - the gulf in class, experience & ability was very clear.

I think a lot of those later rounds were close toppy, as Chris said you had to pretty much give the benefit of the doubt to Eubank in all of them to get a draw, I think 115-113 or 116-112 are about right on balance.

All three judges, including the hard to fathom card for Eubank had it closer than most fans though. Maybe close up, his work looked more effective.

Can see 115-113. Could've given the 8th to him, as neither did much to 'earn' the round, but felt BJS made Jr look a little silly at times so went in his favour.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Watched it last night, gave Saunders 1st-5th & 8th-10th, so 116-112.

Fairly clear cut, baffles me how anyone could come up with a draw, let alone a Eubank Jr win - the gulf in class, experience & ability was very clear.

IIRC I gave the 8th to Eubank, other than that the same. I think conceivably you could give Eubank the 9th (Saunders did the cleaner work, but Eubank did land the bigger shots - couple of upper-cuts IIRC), which is why I say a draw could have been feasible. Don't see how you can give Eubank any other rounds though TBH...

Eubank Jr was extremely ragged and looked pretty amateurish but it worked in spots. Billy is a top fighter so there is no shame in losing because it was competitive.

Everyone I knew bet on Eubank Jr; that pre-fight promo video sure was convincing!

He was very wild on Saturday , it's clear they need to teach him how to work his way inside and also study a few Cesar Chavez videos and develop his body punching. He might yet become a good body puncher. Steady his man up before swinging wildly.


The Saunders fight came two or three fights early, should have had a couple of lower British first , but it still wouldn't surprise me in the least if he overturns the Saunders loss but maybe wait a few fights rather than as Saunder's first defence as am sure Saunders can win the title but (confession) never seen Korobov. Lots of things to work on but time is on his side and he'll always be in exciting fights. Have to remember he's still only a novice.

I had it 117-112 BJS , one round I couldn't split them. Wasn't impressed as most with Eubank in the second half of the fight, though he was missing less and occasionally caughted Saunders his recklessness wasn't impressive at all. Not sure how one judge could have Eubank by 3!

I had BJS by 1 gave him the first 6 and 1 tied. Have to agree with the majority of people on here though that I was slightly disappointed in both. While I thought the fight was entertaining neither really filled me with any great confidence for their ability to step up.

Eubank Jr needs to definitely get a proper trainer in who can give him some constructive advise throughout the fight and tell his dad to beat it when he starts his nonsense.

BJS just seems too small for MW definitely looks like he could make LMW without many problems if he takes his conditioning a bit more seriously. Just didn't seem strong enough to keep Jr at bay for the last few rounds. Both seriously lacking in the power department too.

Hope I'm wrong though as always liked Saunders and want him to do well and Jr will be entertaining even if he isn't the best prospect in Britain.

I had BJS by a slither and I'll tell you why:

Eubank didn't start until round 7/8. I'm not sure why but maybe its the lack of a trainer to teach him how to win early rounds against good opposition. If he'd nicked 2/3 of the first 6 by being busier then I'd have him winning the fight but it just didn't happen. He wildly swings which needs to be addressed - it'll win him fights against those without the physical gifts but BJS is pretty decent and dealt with him comfortably early on - tiredness got to him later on but he;d done enough in my eyes.

Think BJS doesn't have the potential Eubank does but is likely to go further in his career.

It's very difficult to say how good Eubank can be, considering he's now had 19 fights and seemingly no really top level coaching.

I quite rate Saunders from a technical perspective, and so I was actually quite impressed that Eubank was able to trouble him as much as he did. My prediction for the fight was, Saunders to win a very wide decision. Or, failing that, Saunders to win a narrow decision with Eubank demonstrating that, he too, is a technically proficient fighter.

However; neither of those things happened. Saunders won a tight (but clear) decision against a guy who demonstrated very little pure boxing skills.

I'm not sure if that reflects well on Eubank's speed, athleticism, and natural fighting ability; or if it reflects poorly on Saunders' capacity to deal with cruder, less skilful fighters.. Perhaps a bit of both?

Was I watching something different, I don't think BJS was troubled at all.

He was gassing and looking ragged towards the end of most of the later rounds. Whether he was really hurt at any stage was hard to tell, he was certainly holding on at times.

Reminded me of Nunn v Barkley.....Similar scorecards too....