Does anybody know what is happening with Dan Lydiate ?

I know he has been offered a dual contract, but has the offer been taken ? Does he have a club to train at ? Is he going back to France ? So many questions, and still now answers, I thought that all the dual contracts would be sorted by know. Has anybody got any news ?

since they 'named' the people they have offered the dual contracts to nothing has been said other than they expected them to be signed up by the end of the month (oops too late that was sunday). Maybe it will be like the PA/RSA think, and they will keep saying every now and again that they will be signed up soon, and come the end of the season they will finally get somewhere with them.

On our forum (Os), a normally well informed poster said yesterday that Dan signed for us over 2 weeks ago, on much better terms than the DC allows, why it hasn't been disclosed nobody knows, either yesterday or today is the final day for players to be registered for this round of RCC matches, there can only be 2 players registered at this stage of the competition and one HAS to be a front row forward, and THAT is the one position WE need bolstering.

Thats the news I was hoping to here wayne, a backrow of Tuperic, Baker and Lydiate is a very good unit, I hope your are right.

LordDowlais wrote:Thats the news I was hoping to here wayne, a backrow of Tuperic, Baker and Lydiate is a very good unit, I hope your are right.

Lord, I'm NOT happy with this development, I WANT 4 strong Regions and other teams need Dan more than we do, we have a first choice unit of King, Tipuric and Baker, with Ardron, Lewis and Morgan Allen behind them with Bearman, Cracknell and Academy players coming through, if we sign Lydiate and lose Tipuric, as many on our board foresee through a lack of finances and his apparent feelings as to how he has been treated by Gatland it will be a very sad day indeed.

wayne wrote: if we sign Lydiate and lose Tipuric

I cannot see Tips going anywhere.

Wayne, these Dual Contracts and current welsh match day squad selections could se a few players showing Gats the finger this summer. There is talk that Liam Williams may well be heading to Leicester as he feels overlooked purely for Halfpenny's boot. And like you say Tips must feel similar with regards Lydiate and his 'tackling'

LordDowlais wrote:

wayne wrote: if we sign Lydiate and lose Tipuric

I cannot see Tips going anywhere.

Lord, it has been common knowledge that 2 top French sides have been after him for well over a year, and with the way TW has treated him (in his eyes), he is prepared to go, though in the last few days there is talk that he is staying.
To add about the use that Lydiate would be to us, as good as he is tackling wise, he is NOT a link player and he is not normally a lineout option or carries very effectively, our 4 flankers that I already named are ALL of those, but obviously nowhere near as effective in destructive tackling as Dan is, he would have to be integrated into our ploys and plays and if he did come to us I would BACK him from DAY1.

Wayne, I would be very upset if he did leave for France, after all what the feck are these new DC for, in my opinion Tips should be one of the first one's on the list to get one, I was hoping that we have now seen the last of the best Welsh players leaving Wales.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Wayne, these Dual Contracts and current welsh match day squad selections could se a few players showing Gats the finger this summer.  There is talk that Liam Williams may well be heading to Leicester as he feels overlooked purely for Halfpenny's boot.  And like you say Tips must feel similar with regards Lydiate and his 'tackling'

SS, with the names being bandied about to who is getting a DC, there was the proviso that there could be a few extra in December, would Gatland have the nous to keep some of the money back, and see if there was any discontent around, another person on our board last night who was in Dublin over the weekend, said that he was told Tips has re-signed, I can understand where Sanjay is coming from as well, the small amount of pettiness didn't help his case, yet he should be the first name on the Welsh team back three at the moment IMO.

LordDowlais wrote:Wayne, I would be very upset if he did leave for France, after all what the feck are these new DC for, in my opinion Tips should be one of the first one's on the list to get one, I was hoping that we have now seen the last of the best Welsh players leaving Wales.

That is the major sticking point isn't it.

Team Wales see them as a way of bringing back players from away and having better access to them. The regions see them as a way to stop the players who are still hear heading off to get decent wages. And looking at the players who have supposedly been offered them, it would appear that they are being used as a way to evenly fund all four regions regardless of whether a player is likely to play for Wales or not (Mr Amos, and Mr Morgan for instance).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Wayne, I would be very upset if he did leave for France, after all what the feck are these new DC for, in my opinion Tips should be one of the first one's on the list to get one, I was hoping that we have now seen the last of the best Welsh players leaving Wales.

That is the major sticking point isn't it.

Team Wales see them as a way of bringing back players from away and having better access to them.  The regions see them as a way to stop the players who are still hear heading off to get decent wages.  And looking at the players who have supposedly been offered them, it would appear that they are being used as a way to evenly fund all four regions regardless of whether a player is likely to play for Wales or not (Mr Amos, and Mr Morgan for instance).

At least they were produced here, unlike Mr Anscombe for example.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Wayne, I would be very upset if he did leave for France, after all what the feck are these new DC for, in my opinion Tips should be one of the first one's on the list to get one, I was hoping that we have now seen the last of the best Welsh players leaving Wales.

That is the major sticking point isn't it.

Team Wales see them as a way of bringing back players from away and having better access to them.  The regions see them as a way to stop the players who are still hear heading off to get decent wages.  And looking at the players who have supposedly been offered them, it would appear that they are being used as a way to evenly fund all four regions regardless of whether a player is likely to play for Wales or not (Mr Amos, and Mr Morgan for instance).

Boys we are as one on this, WRUburton is on £275K and there is £3.3M available, that would be 12 players if (Morgan, Amos) were on less, that could leave the way for Tips, Sanjay, Corey Allen to be part of the Dec influx, we have seen how decimated TW could be, WE NEED to keep these players in Wales not only for the sake of TW but for the Regions as well, the Anscombe is well put as well

Hell yeah I forget him too. He hasn't even proven himself as a regional level player yet.

I don't get at all why amos needs to be on a dual contract, realistically he wont be leaving wales for at least another 3 years due to university, and that's assuming he doesn't do a Dr Roberts and take an extended time to complete his degree. Also frankly while he has show some good form, he is way down the pecking order for wales!

The whole Anscombe thing doesn't sit right at all with me to be brutally honest, I don't like the idea of having an overseas player swoop into the team due to being a NZer, frankly if he isint good enough for NZ, then why should we settle for 5th or 6th choice players for them, especially when there are the likes of Patchell or O.Williams who have a lot of potential.

Do players become cup tied like they do in football in that as Lydiate has played for Racing in the RCC already could the Os play him?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Do players become cup tied like they do in football in that as Lydiate has played for Racing in the RCC already could the Os play him?

Yes, but Lydiate hasn't Ben registered by Racing.

Like it or not, Tips was crap this autumn and Lydiate was good. He's not doing himself any favours by whinging(?), he should concentrate on developing his game. If that Sanjay rumour is true then get him on a friggin contract immediately. He IS one of the players that can feel aggrieved about not having game time this autumn. Shame Lydiate isn't coming back to Dragons but if his move to Ospreys helps keep King out of team Wales then it can be considered a good one.

welshy824 (new) wrote:I don't get at all why amos needs to be on a dual contract, realistically he wont be leaving wales for at least another 3 years due to university, and that's assuming he doesn't do a Dr Roberts and take an extended time to complete his degree. Also frankly while he has show some good form, he is way down the pecking order for wales!

The whole Anscombe thing doesn't sit right at all with me to be brutally honest, I don't like the idea of having an overseas player swoop into the team due to being a NZer, frankly if he isint good enough for NZ, then why should we settle for 5th or 6th choice players for them, especially when there are the likes of Patchell or O.Williams who have a lot of potential.

Is Amos that far away though? No, not when you consider the bad form North and Cuthbert find themselves in. You're not watching much rugby I take it? This decision however, relies solely on Gatland picking the FORM players. If not, players will leave as rumoured.

I don't think Amos is far away. He should've got another cap v Fiji really, as chances to expose players are now pretty rare before the WC. I guess he'll get another cap in whichever WC warm up Gatland rotates slightly for, but it would be good to see him have a chance in a stronger team than the one that faced Tonga last season.

Given that Cuthbert mentioned that he is as strong gym wise as North and him, he's probably just as suited to play the Gatland winger role and with him and 1/2p on the wings and Williams at 15, it also would give us a handy interchangable back three option should the need arise

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/12-welsh-players-offered-dual-8137690

They are the Ospreys trio of Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Biggar and Rhys Webb, their soon-to-be Liberty team-mate Dan Lydiate, plus prop Samson Lee (Scarlets), Lions No.8 Toby Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons) and try-ace Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues).

I guess thats the sneaky way of announcing it.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Do players become cup tied like they do in football in that as Lydiate has played for Racing in the RCC already could the Os play him?

3.5 Each club may register up to two additional players during the pool stage, each to replace a player previously registered. If a club registers two additional players, one such player must be a front row player. Additional players must have a three-month contract with the club and must not have played for another club in the tournament. Additional player registrations must be submitted by 12 noon (GMT) on the Tuesday before the match. De-registered players may be re-registered (in place of the relevant additional players) during the pool stage.

So I am assuming that means that Dan will not be running out for the Ospreys in Europe. However, if there is a game limit on players, that would probably be for the best. The Ospreys are not in a strong position in Europe, and that would give him four games more in the league instead.

Great for him, he will surely bounce back at the O's, a move abroad was never going to be a great success.

Apparently there is a clause that state he can't face Racing in the champ cup, which is surely why he hasn't been registered yet.

That said shouldn't the O's be looking for locks instead? i think Lou Reed could do a decent job for them as he is being overlooked at The Blues.

Lou Reed was/is being linked with Dragons. I don't think we need him though.

Risca Rev wrote:Lou Reed was/is being linked with Dragons. I don't think we need him though.

He certainly would help you imo, look how your scrum got demolished last sunday when Coombes went on for Landman. Though this will probably mean it is the end of the road for Gough (one of my all time favourite player).

When Roger the Dodger said that the first tranch of central contracts including Dan Lydiate would be finalised before the end of the Autumn internationals you guys didn't believe him did you???????

It appears this saga is coming to an end, even Martyn Hazell is saying he has failed to convince Dan to return to the Dragons and he will sign for us (Os) this week, I was talking to somebody very very close to the Ospreys squad yesterday and he told me he hasn't signed for us yet, that there were a few problems still to be ironed out with the WRU, when I asked him is he going to sign for us he just smiled.
Sorry Dragons fans this is NOT the path I would have wanted for the betterment of Welsh Rugby.

The thing is if you go down the route of forcing a player to go to one Region or even forcing that Region to accept one player it will cause annimosity, Lydiate obvioulsy wants to be playing at the highest level in Europe and challenging for silverware and feels the Os offer him that chance.

Its a shame he's not coming back to Dave but I can understand his decision.

bedfordwelsh wrote:The thing is if you go down the route of forcing a player to go to one Region or even forcing that Region to accept one player it will cause annimosity, Lydiate obvioulsy wants to be playing at the highest level in Europe and challenging for silverware and feels the Os offer him that chance.

Its a shame he's not coming back to Dave but I can understand his decision.

BW, Reading the articles on the BBC and in the Fail, it says he wants to go down west because of his partners family, nothing to do with winning silverware and I don't think Hazell would have been so understanding if Dan said I want to go to the Os for that reason.

Wayne,

He may not say it in the same way they say they don't go to France for just the money but I would be very surprised it it didn't have something to do with it. Not knocking him for it either he seems a very genuine quiet type of bloke so maybe he didn't say it out of respect for the Dragons and not want to rub salt into the wounds etc.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne,

He may not say it in the same way they say they don't go to France for just the money but I would be very surprised it it didn't have something to do with it.  Not knocking him for it either he seems a very genuine quiet type of bloke so maybe he didn't say it out of respect for the Dragons and not want to rub salt into the wounds etc.

You could be right there BW, and if it is right, good that there is some decent respect involved.

To be honest I feel lucky that us Dragons have got any dual contracts at all (if the original plan is to be believed). I see the whole point of dual contracts as developing players for team wales. Therefore, you need those on dual contracts  to be managed well by the union (limit on game time, conditioning, etc.) AND to be playing at the highest level. It pains me to say this but if I was in charge of dual contracts I would be loathe to award any to those playing in the 2nd tier of Europe. I think there would have been uproar if all regions didn't get DCs, so for me the distribution of these is more political than tactical. Lydiate, as a key part of team wales, going to a team in the top tier of Europe is the right thing for him and Wales. I know we want 4 strong regions, but I guess we're in a bit of a chicken and egg situation. I'd give emerging players a DC, but returning 'stars' like Lydiate need to be in the top cup from the start (of dual contracts).

All the best to him. It would've been nice to have seen him come back, as it would be a selling point for the region to say we have two Team Wales starters in our ranks. That said, I am happy enough with our backrow really (James Thomas is doing well enough at 6) and if we have the money to match the Ospreys wage offer, then that really needs to go on other areas.

Also, I guess Sam Lewis isn't going to play as much as he'd like, so shall we resurrect that deal again

Martyn Hazell has confirmed he will be going to the Ospreys:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/30370794

Risca Rev wrote:

Also, I guess Sam Lewis isn't going to play as much as he'd like, so shall we resurrect that deal again

Why would you want Sam, I thought you had the best 7 in Welsh Rugby (Cudd), so he would get even less game time with you as Tips would be with the Welsh squad

Story in the Fail today that Owen Williams has been offered a central contract to return to Wales next season when his contract with the Tigers expires.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/warren-gatland-weighing-up-dual-8246211

Apparently Scarlets will be offered first refusal, but the Fail conjectures that as they have Priestland, he is more likely to go to the Dragons.

With centrally contracted players only being allowed 16 games in a season, its more likely that the REgions will only want a centrally contracted player if they have a top quality replacement they can use for the majority of the season when the centrally contracted player is not available. So at 10:

Blues - Patchell, Anscombe, Davies
Ospreys - Biggar, Davies
Dragons - Tovey, Dorien Jones
Scarlets - Priestland, Shingler

If Wales want their top 4 no 10s as first choice then the Dragons it is, but I suspect that the Scarlets may be keen on Williams as Shingler has not kicked on as they hoped he would.

Seagultaf wrote:Apparently Scarlets will be offered first refusal, but the Fail conjectures that as they have Priestland, he is more likely to go to the Dragons.

Seeing as Lydiate was offered a DC at the dragons (for the same money as supposedly he has signed to join the Ospreys) and turned it down. Surely Owen would say no thank you to the Dragons too. After all there isn't even a sentimental pull for him there. If he can't get back in the Scarlets, and the Ospreys don't want him (who would want two DC fly halves) then surely he would just stay put in Leicester and push for the George North type contract.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Apparently Scarlets will be offered first refusal, but the Fail conjectures that as they have Priestland, he is more likely to go to the Dragons.

Seeing as Lydiate was offered a DC at the dragons (for the same money as supposedly he has signed to join the Ospreys) and turned it down.  Surely Owen would say no thank you to the Dragons too.  After all there isn't even a sentimental pull for him there.  If he can't get back in the Scarlets, and the Ospreys don't want him (who would want two DC fly halves) then surely he would just stay put in Leicester and push for the George North type contract.

If he was told 'No show in Wales means no International hope'?  Would that make him warmer to the idea of Dragons?

I don't think players should be told where to play in ideal circumstances.  They should have the freedom to play where their conscience takes them - if that's abroad, so be it, and if that's a lack of desire to play for one Region and not another, then so be it too.  These players have their own priorities in life and their own career objectives.  We have a similar debate beginning to happen in Ireland where its being hinted that players from one Province might be 'forced' to drift to another Province in the interests of 'Irish rugby'.  I've cautioned against the idea being overly forced on players as the loyalty to Provinces is a big factor in their success to date.

But also, I believe the Union and the International game people have a right to create conditions that best suit them and not the individual desires of individual players.  Therefore, it's perfectly okay for a player like Owen to prefer staying in England to coming home to play in a Region that is 'forced' on him - but he shouldn't think that the decision should have no ramifications for his International hopes.  It should be his decision where to play his club rugby but it should also be the decision of the WRU as to the conditions they apply to International representation.

Fly - spot-on (ish), if he could get a 'international availability' clause like North has, then that would make his as free for international duty as any other player.

It would be better if our 4 Regions each had players who the Welsh set up considered good enough competing for positions.

If Williams goes to the Scarlets what would that mean for Preistland, would he himself then look to move on, would he stay and fight?

Either way you would have two players in same position that the Union think good enough at one Region so one would be getting more game time than the other.

bedfordwelsh wrote:It would be better if our 4 Regions each had players who the Welsh set up considered good enough competing for positions.

If Williams goes to the Scarlets what would that mean for Preistland, would he himself then look to move on, would he stay and fight?  

Either way you would have two players in same position that the Union think good enough at one Region so one would be getting more game time than the other.

Why should a region produce/develop players then if they can just wait of another region to produce a spare, and poach them???

bedfordwelsh wrote:It would be better if our 4 Regions each had players who the Welsh set up considered good enough competing for positions.

If Williams goes to the Scarlets what would that mean for Preistland, would he himself then look to move on, would he stay and fight?  

Either way you would have two players in same position that the Union think good enough at one Region so one would be getting more game time than the other.

Isn't that exactly what has happened at the Blues with Anscombe joining and likely to be getting a central contract? Does this mean Patchell has to leave now and try to get game time at his prefered no 10 role at another club?

My understanding of central contracts is that they are to be used to supliment the funding of the Regions to allow them to retain players and strengthen their squads. If a centraly contracted player arriving means that the incumbent in that position has to leave, there will be no squad strengthening.

If any player (Owen)has International ambitions, hopefully Gatland's Law will be instigated, said player has the right of veto (Lydiate) not to go to original club (Dragons) and elect to go elsewhere (Ospreys), Owen would also have this right, also in the process there is an Arbitration process, IIRC run by Sir Wyn Williams (Judge), so UNLESS Owen has no International ambitions, he will basically have his choice of Region to play for.

wayne wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Also, I guess Sam Lewis isn't going to play as much as he'd like, so shall we resurrect that deal again

Why would you want Sam, I thought you had the best 7 in Welsh Rugby (Cudd), so he would get even less game time with you as Tips would be with the Welsh squad

Firstly, it was clearly a joke (hence the wink), secondly, I don't think I have said Cudd is the best 7 in Welsh Rugby and lastly, I would wager he would still get more minutes on the pitch with us if he came to Dave.

In reality he's contracted for another year and I'd rather us give Scott Matthews a chance.

Risca Rev wrote:

wayne wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Also, I guess Sam Lewis isn't going to play as much as he'd like, so shall we resurrect that deal again

Why would you want Sam, I thought you had the best 7 in Welsh Rugby (Cudd), so he would get even less game time with you as Tips would be with the Welsh squad

Firstly, it was clearly a joke (hence the wink), secondly, I don't think I have said Cudd is the best 7 in Welsh Rugby and lastly, I would wager he would still get more minutes on the pitch with us if he came to Dave.

In reality he's contracted for another year and I'd rather us give Scott Matthews a chance.

Rev don't be so sensitive, you put in a smily as did I, and your right Lewis would get more game time at the Parade as he is a MUCH BETTER player than Cudd anyway

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:It would be better if our 4 Regions each had players who the Welsh set up considered good enough competing for positions.

If Williams goes to the Scarlets what would that mean for Preistland, would he himself then look to move on, would he stay and fight?  

Either way you would have two players in same position that the Union think good enough at one Region so one would be getting more game time than the other.

Why should a region produce/develop players then if they can just wait of another region to produce a spare, and poach them???

Been happening to the Dragons for years, which meant we needed to nick some of yours and Ospreys players in return...

Scarlets isn't a bad move for Williams as I think he's clearly surpassed Priest and Shingler. Furthermore, it's unlikely that Priest will ever feature for Wales, but would be a decent 2nd/3rd choice fly-half/fullback for scarlets. You can bet your house on Pivac fighting tooth and nail to get this guy back.

Will Williams be welcomed back with open arms at the Scarlets? I seem to recall his move to Leicester either being a snub (new contract offered perhaps) or a complete shock done behind their backs. I remember something from Easterby at the time that was not too complementary about the situation.

Griff wrote:Will Williams be welcomed back with open arms at the Scarlets? I seem to recall his move to Leicester either being a snub (new contract offered perhaps) or a complete shock done behind their backs. I remember something from Easterby at the time that was not too complementary about the situation.

I wouldn't worry to much about Easterby's comments, he's long gone and hasn't exactly left a lasting legacy to be proud of.
Easterly was a part of what was so wrong at the Scarlet's, a head coach that walks around the stadium slaging off the club in front off catering staff is not what any organisation needs. Given the choice of having Owen Williams back or Simon Easterby back then I know which one most Scarlet's fans would want. In Wayne Pivac we finally have a Coach who seems to understand what it means to be part of a team, I hope that will appeal to any future signings as we really need a team that are proud to wear the shirt again.

[quote="The Saint"][quote="ScarletSpiderman"]

bedfordwelsh wrote: Furthermore, it's unlikely that Priest will ever feature for Wales, but would be a decent 2nd/3rd choice fly-half/fullback for scarlets. You can bet your house on Pivac fighting tooth and nail to get this guy back.

Saint,

You can say that as I still think Gatland rates him and we will see him in the 6 Nations squad, he is ahead of Hook in Gatlands thinking. So with Patchell out injured for a good while, Hook and Williams in England that leaves Preistland and Anscombe so I think we will still see him in Welsh squad.

Come the 6Ns (unless there are more injuries), I think we will see the squad having the halfbacks as (in order of preference)

Scrum Half -: Rhys Webb, Mike Phillips, Rhodri Williams (unless Gareth Davies comes back on form)
Fly Half -: Dan Biggar, Gareth Anscombe, Rhys Priestland