Jumping to conclusions or putting things in the right context

2014 is over 2015 beckons and the "Holy Grail" beckons too so look back and ponder this.
NOTHING that happened this year will have any thing to do with winning despite the SCW
psycho babble spouted recently.on tv.

England had 7 Lions injured,Ireland horrendous injuries ,SA missing core players,Australia
in disarray,AllBlacks there for the taking etc,France out of sorts,Argentina improving and so on.

My field of expertise is the SH in particular the NZ Rugby,where all teams from bottom up
play the same way.Players are managed from NPC,7`s,Maori/Juniors to AllBlacks injured
there rehab is managed.Then they are fed into the NPc/Super sides to get fit and sharpen up.
Logical the TEAM [AB`s] come before the individual a player is injured/off form he is then
sent to rehab and someone else takes his place .Surrounded by senior players he is eased
into the side rebuilding it to.

This year Woodcock,Nonu,Carter,Romano,were all long term injuries and certain squad
starters fit on form.Kerr-Barlow and Cory Jane for most of the year too virtually every
first choice and many replacements have been injured too only the Smiths Ben/Aron
being free of them.Aaron Cruden suffered a groin injury which is believed to have effected
his goal kicking .Very possibly the legendary Don Clarke did the same during 1963 tour
to UK and his goal kicking went to pot thenre discovered during last match of tour.

All this year to trained observer the ABs have been playing it as dummy run for the RWC.
Players being managed and replace ments being fed in as required different combinations
forwards and backs tried with a strong bench to back up.

The bench has been used almost by the numbers despite the score line almost injuries
permitting.Player x on for y give him 20 minutes trusting them to do the job which
if your honest they`ve done well even the lost game.Had it gone another 5 minutes
I`d have bet they would have a found a way to win.

Yellow card management has been exemplary 7 in 12 matches outscoring the other
sides 27 to 9.

At the start of and during the RC`s Carter was so badly injured he was virtually out
for the rest of the year.Cruden injured to so Barrett was tried with some success
except for his goal kicking.Slade the obvious answer was ignored till nearly the end.

Since the squad is 31 players it is question of leaving out players from the 50 or so
used.I could write down the squad now and injuries/form permitting won`t be more
than a couple out.

Just a couple of comments I`ve read Carter will struggle he hasn't been right for
3 years.Odd comment when he was IRB player of the year in 2012 and has shown
form pre injury.T.J Perenara is rubbish,he`s not his service is only compared with
A.Smiths.Certainly I`d prefer him to Hougaard,Reinach,Care,or any other England
9.

England started the Ai`s like all the NH sides laying down a marker for 2015 4-0
was the ideal.3-1 ok,2-2 desperate.

They started against the AllBlacks with a flourish running at them with luck they
could have had 2 try`s and a drop in the first 20 minutes.After that it was all
over in dry conditions it would have been a heavy loss poor goal kicking kept
them in the game.There was nothing in the scrums bar one between the sides
as for the Penalty try.?Scrum wheeled more than 90 degrees reset.NO the
England front row just stood up .Penalty to the AB`s but a 50/50 bet at home
Owens seemed to be awarding scrum penalties by the numbers.

The SA game was poor but inevitable both coming off losses it was an arm wrestle
the rolling maul.Maybe a good way of scoring points but you have to be able defend
it too especially when down to 7 only the ABs have mastered defending it well.
A tactical kick and try deciding the game.

Samoa only had one answer have fun knocking people down and penalties England
won which is all you can say for it.

Australia was a game that was a throw back to the kick/rush days when club sides
overturned touring sides.

Where forward no doubt the Forwards may be improved but that isn`t the problem.
Tuilagi if he remembers he has a wing and stays fit wil improve the backs.Ford`s
goal kicking was no better than Crudens 3/5 not his fault he can`t kick long
distant ones.By now the squad bar one or two should be nailed down.

Wales when they ran versus Australia looked good,were dire v Fiji didn't have
the firepower to down NZ.The SA win great for the ego and a long time coming
but the injury to De Villiers.The rest it gave Wales and the debatable yellow card
changed the game.In fact an earlier incident was nearer one.

Ireland with great injuries problems had a great AI`s with a limited game plan
whether it will be enough next year who knows.

Scotland had a good AI`s and proved that even the AB`s can`t just make 13
changes against any side.Then expect an easy ride but realistically once the
cavalry came they were never going to win.

France typical beat Australia in some style then go to sleep against a limited
Argentina side.

Argentina with many of there stars missing showed what they can do,if
treated lightly.

South Africa with so many players missing went from there fluid style
to desperate up the jumpers stuff.Since it was obvious that certain
players were going to start certain games.Then to lose players because
some French prat wanted his players back,then didn't play t hem.
Words fail me, 2 from 2 rubbish v Italy,maybe in the circumstances
was a little to be expected. Ireland played really well as did Wales
but in my opinion the latter could have gone either way.

Australia in the circumstances with much of there front row missing
not unexpected.IF instead of playing pretty patterns they converted
overlaps to simply feeding there wings.England could have been beaten.

Summing up not forgetting the many tier 2 sides who had good results
next year.RWC it will be down to injuries,Refs decisions,the dark horse
side as usual in a knockout cup

De Villiers out is huge. It lessens or even removes genuine leadership in the backs. He's been the most consistent performer and has a steadying influence on the whole side.

Oz just don't have the pack to win 3 knockouts. Simple as that. While NZ have all sorts of selection decisions to make they've done a bit of real learning about what it takes to win matches. I think Hansens been holding back stuff and playing a few games since the RC.

But its all guess work. Refs and injuries will be a factor, just as much as on the day comes into it. England might be confident but theyve already lost two finals at home so its not just the NZ away thing.

Taylorman wrote:But its all guess work. Refs and injuries will be a factor, just as much as on the day comes into it. England might be confident but theyve already lost two finals at home so its not just the NZ away thing.

Paris is most definitely not home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cant agree with your summary that England would have lost heavily to NZ in dry conditions. It was when conditions were at there worst and Farrell and Cares kicking was v poor which cost us if dry Id have rated our chances higher.

Kicking didnt keep us in it took the game away.

"England started the Ai`s like all the NH sides laying down a marker for 2015 4-0
was the ideal.3-1 ok,2-2 desperate."

Think you've made that up to be honest, I don't think any NH team has said that.

Nathan the comment was made by an England pundit either on telegraph/guardian/observer
or planet rugby.3-1 was considered the best bet when wrote the thread it was to start a
sensible comments considered only partially covered.

7+1/2 in my opinion a slight misnomer in the conditions before THE DELUGE England
were beginning to lose.The try was well taken the conversion missed,another possible
try butchered and a dropped goal attempt botched.

Conditions under foot were slippery and though Owens could have cut all the Scrums
some slack.It certainly wasn't a penalty try at the end,white line fever and the obsession
with the driving maul may have cost the game.

The right options were to kick at goal for penalties keep the score board ticking but it
was noticeable.Straight in front kicks were converted on the wider areas not by both sides.

After 20 minutes the ABs were going up thru the gears and were only 3 adrift a half time.
The yellow card has been sussed and there defence during them exempalary,they are the
only side to have defended the rolling maul.

Since 2009 they have conceded the least tries from them than any other team then
the wet weather game was by the book.

Missed goal kicks and some strange decisions made the score look better.A loose head
goes of replaced by a tight head?Best Scrum half subbed when on top of his game when
in the balance an inferior close out the game?[ditto v Wales]

The SA match though poor was an arm wrestle both sides coming of a loss,Samoa were
willing but never going to win.

Australia was a must win and if OZ had played simple running rugby feed overlaps after
line breaks they would have won comfortably.

SCW will talk as he always does and will no doubt bring up what he did in 03 as he inevitably does. As for 2014 I think the major point has been depth building. Most teams will be drastically different come world cup time with a whole host of injured players returning to the fore which is why i wont read too much into the games in the AI and summer tours.

As for JDV injury, i doubt he'll be fit for the WC , really hope so but unlikely . This might actually force Jaque Fourie back into the international game hopefully which would be a blessing as he's a natural 13 .

Imo the World cup will be decided by who comes out tops in Group D . Oz would do well to top that group otherwise they all but guarantee an All black victory if it turns out the way it did 2011 . I dont think any of the teams on the other side of the bracket will defeat NZ in a world cup final especially not even England playing at home. The only hope is for the Aussies to top the group and have a less troublesome road to the final , troublesome in that it theoretically wont involve the Boks and All blacks in successive games . Then again , the Aussies are fond of losing to the Irish and French .

emack I take it you mean winning by beginning to lose. Based on the actual game the rain was the worst thing to happen to England. In wet conditions Care and Farrell were poor whereas NZ played it superbly. Hard as it is for you to admit England are pretty close to NZ at the moment along with a few others.

No 7&1/2 wrote:emack I take it you mean winning by beginning to lose. Based on the actual game the rain was the worst thing to happen to England. In wet conditions Care and Farrell were poor whereas NZ played it superbly. Hard as it is for you to admit England are pretty close to NZ at the moment along with a few others.

Actually i think the Rankings are pretty accurate for once , gap between NZ and SA who have a smaller gap to Ireland then England

For the first time in a while there are teams who stand a great chance. NZ remain top and Ive never disputed that.

In a knockout comp ANY side can win maybe the AB`s will go the France way throw the
Group stage to get on the easy side of the draw?

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:But its all guess work. Refs and injuries will be a factor, just as much as on the day comes into it. England might be confident but theyve already lost two finals at home so its not just the NZ away thing.

Paris is most definitely not home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

true...but it is a train ticket away...not a 30 hour flight...And it was more home than SA for the rest of the tournament.

Bullsbok wrote:SCW will talk as he always does and will no doubt bring up what he did in 03 as he inevitably does. As for 2014 I think the major point has been depth building. Most teams will be drastically different come world cup time with a whole host of injured players returning to the fore which is why i wont read too much into the games in the AI and summer tours.

As for JDV injury, i doubt he'll be fit for the WC , really hope so but unlikely . This might actually force Jaque Fourie back into the international game hopefully which would be a blessing as he's a natural 13 .

Imo the World cup will be decided by who comes out tops in Group D . Oz would do well to top that group otherwise they all but guarantee an All black victory if it turns out the way it did 2011 . I dont think any of the teams on the other side of the bracket will defeat NZ in a world cup final especially not even England playing at home. The only hope is for the  Aussies to top the group and have a less troublesome road to the final , troublesome in that it theoretically wont involve the Boks and All blacks in successive games . Then again , the Aussies are fond of losing to the Irish and French .

Fourie wasn't the leader JDV was and its that that will be missing the most. Last 3 years the boks have been able to rely on 3 things. A consistently performing pack. Strike weapons in Habana and Le Roux in the backs, and JDV's leadership and consistency in the midfield. This puts the Bok chances over the knockouts at risk.

Taylorman wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:But its all guess work. Refs and injuries will be a factor, just as much as on the day comes into it. England might be confident but theyve already lost two finals at home so its not just the NZ away thing.

Paris is most definitely not home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

true...but it is a train ticket away...not a 30 hour flight...And it was more home than SA for the rest of the tournament.

Taylorman, are you arguing that something can be 'more home' than something else based on distance?! Home is home, abroad is aboard. Regardless of distance!

Griff wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:But its all guess work. Refs and injuries will be a factor, just as much as on the day comes into it. England might be confident but theyve already lost two finals at home so its not just the NZ away thing.

Paris is most definitely not home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

true...but it is a train ticket away...not a 30 hour flight...And it was more home than SA for the rest of the tournament.

Taylorman, are you arguing that something can be 'more home' than something else based on distance?! Home is home, abroad is aboard. Regardless of distance!

How many English fans were at the World cup final in 2007 due to travelling from England? More han I would say kiwis travelling from NZ to the 1/4 final. The complications that arise from a tour 20,000 km away are far different from that a 30 minute flight would cover. In the entire tournament, how often were the players of the opportunity to be at 'home' with family, training at familiar grounds etc? When the tournament is in the NH, there are home elements even if not actually hosting.

Taylorman wrote:

Griff wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:But its all guess work. Refs and injuries will be a factor, just as much as on the day comes into it. England might be confident but theyve already lost two finals at home so its not just the NZ away thing.

Paris is most definitely not home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

true...but it is a train ticket away...not a 30 hour flight...And it was more home than SA for the rest of the tournament.

Taylorman, are you arguing that something can be 'more home' than something else based on distance?! Home is home, abroad is aboard. Regardless of distance!

How many English fans were at the World cup final in 2007 due to travelling from England? More han I would say kiwis travelling from NZ to the 1/4 final. The complications that arise from a tour 20,000 km away are far different from that a 30 minute flight would cover. In the entire tournament, how often were the players of the opportunity to be at 'home' with family, training at familiar grounds etc? When the tournament is in the NH, there are home elements even if not actually hosting.

Do you mean Europe?! A Japan NH World Cup would offer many home comforts for the 6N teams.

I get your point though. However, it depends on the coaching and the team's camp. Wasn't it Woodward who didn't allow players' families to visit or spend the night with the players, all in the name of performance? And I believe it was Ireland who blamed (in part) their hotel being isolated and socially cut off as reason for a poor showing during the France World Cup? Being in camp, even in another relatively close country, can be like being on the moon if the regime is strict. In fact, culturally in terms of language, food, etc. I bet the UK and Ireland teams would be more comfortable in NZ than somewhere in Europe like France!

I agree about crowd though. But I suppose with England's population they would likely challenge anyone in terms of crowd numbers for rugby no matter where they were on the planet (apart from the hosts maybe). I guess what I'm saying is that it is not as easy as just distance. On paper it is, but in reality a number of other factors influence how 'home' a game is.

Griff wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Griff wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:But its all guess work. Refs and injuries will be a factor, just as much as on the day comes into it. England might be confident but theyve already lost two finals at home so its not just the NZ away thing.

Paris is most definitely not home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

true...but it is a train ticket away...not a 30 hour flight...And it was more home than SA for the rest of the tournament.

Taylorman, are you arguing that something can be 'more home' than something else based on distance?! Home is home, abroad is aboard. Regardless of distance!

How many English fans were at the World cup final in 2007 due to travelling from England? More han I would say kiwis travelling from NZ to the 1/4 final. The complications that arise from a tour 20,000 km away are far different from that a 30 minute flight would cover. In the entire tournament, how often were the players of the opportunity to be at 'home' with family, training at familiar grounds etc? When the tournament is in the NH, there are home elements even if not actually hosting.

Do you mean Europe?! A Japan NH World Cup would offer many home comforts for the 6N teams.

I get your point though. However, it depends on the coaching and the team's camp. Wasn't it Woodward who didn't allow players' families to visit or spend the night with the players, all in the name of performance? And I believe it was Ireland who blamed (in part) their hotel being isolated and socially cut off as reason for a poor showing during the France World Cup? Being in camp, even in another relatively close country, can be like being on the moon if the regime is strict. In fact, culturally in terms of language, food, etc. I bet the UK and Ireland teams would be more comfortable in NZ than somewhere in Europe like France!

I agree about crowd though. But I suppose with England's population they would likely challenge anyone in terms of crowd numbers for rugby no matter where they were on the planet (apart from the hosts maybe). I guess what I'm saying is that it is not as easy as just distance. On paper it is, but in reality a number of other factors influence home 'home' a game is.

yeah agree with that. Anyway...the ABs have no reason not to win away anyway. Their record versus all opposition on twickers, murrayfield, Paris etc is far better than their hosts so the away thing is a red herring for the ABs. They lost for other reasons- not being good enough primarily...but 'away' is not one of them.

Taylorman wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:SCW will talk as he always does and will no doubt bring up what he did in 03 as he inevitably does. As for 2014 I think the major point has been depth building. Most teams will be drastically different come world cup time with a whole host of injured players returning to the fore which is why i wont read too much into the games in the AI and summer tours.

As for JDV injury, i doubt he'll be fit for the WC , really hope so but unlikely . This might actually force Jaque Fourie back into the international game hopefully which would be a blessing as he's a natural 13 .

Imo the World cup will be decided by who comes out tops in Group D . Oz would do well to top that group otherwise they all but guarantee an All black victory if it turns out the way it did 2011 . I dont think any of the teams on the other side of the bracket will defeat NZ in a world cup final especially not even England playing at home. The only hope is for the  Aussies to top the group and have a less troublesome road to the final , troublesome in that it theoretically wont involve the Boks and All blacks in successive games . Then again , the Aussies are fond of losing to the Irish and French .

Fourie wasn't the leader JDV was and its that that will be missing the most. Last 3 years the boks have been able to rely on 3 things. A consistently performing pack. Strike weapons in Habana and Le Roux in the backs, and JDV's leadership and consistency in the midfield. This puts the Bok chances over the knockouts at risk.

Yes we've lost a big dealer but the return of 200+ caps in Louw , Fourie Du Preez, Willem Alberts and Jaque Fourie would certainly offset that . Du Preez alone would be enough to provide calm and take pressure of our flyhalves .

Bullsbok wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:SCW will talk as he always does and will no doubt bring up what he did in 03 as he inevitably does. As for 2014 I think the major point has been depth building. Most teams will be drastically different come world cup time with a whole host of injured players returning to the fore which is why i wont read too much into the games in the AI and summer tours.

As for JDV injury, i doubt he'll be fit for the WC , really hope so but unlikely . This might actually force Jaque Fourie back into the international game hopefully which would be a blessing as he's a natural 13 .

Imo the World cup will be decided by who comes out tops in Group D . Oz would do well to top that group otherwise they all but guarantee an All black victory if it turns out the way it did 2011 . I dont think any of the teams on the other side of the bracket will defeat NZ in a world cup final especially not even England playing at home. The only hope is for the  Aussies to top the group and have a less troublesome road to the final , troublesome in that it theoretically wont involve the Boks and All blacks in successive games . Then again , the Aussies are fond of losing to the Irish and French .

Fourie wasn't the leader JDV was and its that that will be missing the most. Last 3 years the boks have been able to rely on 3 things. A consistently performing pack. Strike weapons in Habana and Le Roux in the backs, and JDV's leadership and consistency in the midfield. This puts the Bok chances over the knockouts at risk.

Yes we've lost a big dealer but the return of 200+ caps in Louw , Fourie Du Preez, Willem Alberts and Jaque Fourie would certainly offset that . Du Preez alone would be enough to provide calm and take pressure of our flyhalves .

yeah not a fan of du preez or Alberts but theyre better slow track players and a NH tournament might just be down their alley, a 9 based forward romp probablt the best option for SA now but I sure hope not.

emack2 wrote:"Ireland with great injuries problems had a great AI`s with a limited game plan whether it will be enough next year who knows."

I understand what you mean in so far as Ireland didnt attack that much with ball in hand in the backs nor use too many offloads.

However, really the game plan isnt actually that limited. Ireland used varied tactics in each of their three games and also showed an ability to adapt their game plan mid game in the Australia game to get the win.

There is certainly lots of work to do in terms of introducing a wider variety of integrated back moves but I wouldnt describe Schmidts game plans limited.

GunsGerms wrote:

emack2 wrote:"Ireland with great injuries problems had a great AI`s with a limited game plan whether it will be enough next year who knows."

There is certainly lots of work to do in terms of introducing a wider variety of integrated back moves but I wouldnt describe Schmidts game plans limited.

Agree with that and the 6N's will be interesting. Schmidt has an ideal platform from which to now build an effective attack from and it's not as if he doesn't know how to. If he consolidates what he has as Ireland's basis then builds in his attack from there over the next 12 months anything can happen. I think at this moment Ireland are the best placed in terms of their consistency of selection and knowing where hey are at. the 3 main SH sides are all over the place trying this or that.

Taylorman wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:But its all guess work. Refs and injuries will be a factor, just as much as on the day comes into it. England might be confident but theyve already lost two finals at home so its not just the NZ away thing.

Paris is most definitely not home!!!!!!!!!!!!!

true...but it is a train ticket away...not a 30 hour flight...And it was more home than SA for the rest of the tournament.

Does this mean nearly every game in the 6N at home given that Edinburgh, Dublin, Cardiff and Paris, London etc are literally a 1hr flight from each other?

Hell, I mean technically Wales, Scotland and England matches are not really internationals at all rather domestic regional battles???

Taylorman wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:SCW will talk as he always does and will no doubt bring up what he did in 03 as he inevitably does. As for 2014 I think the major point has been depth building. Most teams will be drastically different come world cup time with a whole host of injured players returning to the fore which is why i wont read too much into the games in the AI and summer tours.

As for JDV injury, i doubt he'll be fit for the WC , really hope so but unlikely . This might actually force Jaque Fourie back into the international game hopefully which would be a blessing as he's a natural 13 .

Imo the World cup will be decided by who comes out tops in Group D . Oz would do well to top that group otherwise they all but guarantee an All black victory if it turns out the way it did 2011 . I dont think any of the teams on the other side of the bracket will defeat NZ in a world cup final especially not even England playing at home. The only hope is for the  Aussies to top the group and have a less troublesome road to the final , troublesome in that it theoretically wont involve the Boks and All blacks in successive games . Then again , the Aussies are fond of losing to the Irish and French .

Fourie wasn't the leader JDV was and its that that will be missing the most. Last 3 years the boks have been able to rely on 3 things. A consistently performing pack. Strike weapons in Habana and Le Roux in the backs, and JDV's leadership and consistency in the midfield. This puts the Bok chances over the knockouts at risk.

Yes we've lost a big dealer but the return of 200+ caps in Louw , Fourie Du Preez, Willem Alberts and Jaque Fourie would certainly offset that . Du Preez alone would be enough to provide calm and take pressure of our flyhalves .

yeah not a fan of du preez or Alberts but theyre better slow track players and a NH tournament might just be down their alley, a 9 based forward romp probablt the best option for SA now but I sure hope not.

I actually think if Fourie could be tempted back in emergency for JDV's injury then it could arguably be stronger than a De Villiers and Serfontein rather than a Fourie with Serfontein.
Leadership - if you have Burger in the squad, Du Preez, Bissie etc then there are enough leaders in the side to cater the loss.

However Fourie won't come back. Simply won't. He got a big bonus NOT to play test rugby. Can SARU pay that on a maybe that he's fit this time next year... not a chance.

But can the SA side without JDV beat NZ?

Say

Mtawarira, Bissie, Malherbe, Eben, Flip, Alberts, Louw, Vermeulen

Du Preez, Lambie, Habana, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, Pietersen, Le Roux

In the end you never know how things will go. I think that above team all raring to go and fit will test ANYONE and would take NZ to the line. But can that team win the one that counts? We know that leadership is so key to victory so its a big question. Talent, De Villiers is not a huge loss, a loss but not like say losing a chap like Alberts or Flip.

That team would take some stopping but shed 1 or 2 of those players and it starts to get a little weak. The bench is not what it once was like when you had chaps like Danie Russouw, Bissie, Frans Steyn etc

fa0019 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:SCW will talk as he always does and will no doubt bring up what he did in 03 as he inevitably does. As for 2014 I think the major point has been depth building. Most teams will be drastically different come world cup time with a whole host of injured players returning to the fore which is why i wont read too much into the games in the AI and summer tours.

As for JDV injury, i doubt he'll be fit for the WC , really hope so but unlikely . This might actually force Jaque Fourie back into the international game hopefully which would be a blessing as he's a natural 13 .

Imo the World cup will be decided by who comes out tops in Group D . Oz would do well to top that group otherwise they all but guarantee an All black victory if it turns out the way it did 2011 . I dont think any of the teams on the other side of the bracket will defeat NZ in a world cup final especially not even England playing at home. The only hope is for the  Aussies to top the group and have a less troublesome road to the final , troublesome in that it theoretically wont involve the Boks and All blacks in successive games . Then again , the Aussies are fond of losing to the Irish and French .

Fourie wasn't the leader JDV was and its that that will be missing the most. Last 3 years the boks have been able to rely on 3 things. A consistently performing pack. Strike weapons in Habana and Le Roux in the backs, and JDV's leadership and consistency in the midfield. This puts the Bok chances over the knockouts at risk.

Yes we've lost a big dealer but the return of 200+ caps in Louw , Fourie Du Preez, Willem Alberts and Jaque Fourie would certainly offset that . Du Preez alone would be enough to provide calm and take pressure of our flyhalves .

yeah not a fan of du preez or Alberts but theyre better slow track players and a NH tournament might just be down their alley, a 9 based forward romp probablt the best option for SA now but I sure hope not.

I actually think if Fourie could be tempted back in emergency for JDV's injury then it could arguably be stronger than a De Villiers and Serfontein rather than a Fourie with Serfontein.
Leadership - if you have Burger in the squad, Du Preez, Bissie etc then there are enough leaders in the side to cater the loss.

However Fourie won't come back. Simply won't. He got a big bonus NOT to play test rugby. Can SARU pay that on a maybe that he's fit this time next year... not a chance.

But can the SA side without JDV beat NZ?

Say

Mtawarira, Bissie, Malherbe, Eben, Flip, Alberts, Louw, Vermeulen

Du Preez, Lambie, Habana, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, Pietersen, Le Roux

In the end you never know how things will go. I think that above team all raring to go and fit will test ANYONE and would take NZ to the line. But can that team win the one that counts? We know that leadership is so key to victory so its a big question. Talent, De Villiers is not a huge loss, a loss but not like say losing a chap like Alberts or Flip.

That team would take some stopping but shed 1 or 2 of those players and it starts to get a little weak. The bench is not what it once was like when you had chaps like Danie Russouw, Bissie, Frans Steyn etc

Frans Steyn is overrated and frankly is just a slower crash ball merchant than the ones we currently have . Secondly with JDV out Matfield is probably front runner to captain so he's most definately going to the World Cup . As for Fourie ? He'll be back , i just dont see SARU bowing to Frans Steyns demands anytime soon and considering the influence of the senior players particularly Matfield who never really got on with Steyn anyway its much more likely SARU will find a way . Bear in mind FDP had said he wants to step aside as well to let the younger players have a shot yet he's stil Meyers preferred 9

As for the bench i dont think its any worse than most international teams matter of fact its probably one of the best considering how many games we've won when the bench comes on.