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D4thincarnation wrote:Manny Pacquiao is shortlisted for the prestigious Laureus World Sportsman of the Year. The 2011 Laureus World Sports Awards is being held in Abu Dhabi this evening.


The nominees for this awards are Kobe Bryant (US, basketball), Andres Iniesta (Spain, football), Lionel Messi (Argentina, football), Rafael Nadal (Spain, tennis), Sebastian Vettel (Germany, motor racing) and Manny Pacquiao (Philippines, boxing). Could Pacquiao bring this cross sport, world renowned title to boxing.


No boxer has ever won this award, I not sure if any boxer has ever been nominated. In a time where boxing gets little coverage on mainstream media it show the importance of Pacquiao in boxing today that his talents are being recognized across the sporting world and will bring boxing to a wider audience and show boxing in a good light.


Lets all wish Manny Pacquiao good luck tonight.

My vote would go to Nadal. What he did last year was phenominal. Pac beat some washed up hand picked guys who were weight drained (except for Clottey who lost the use of his arms).

Who won?

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It seems people are seeing through the Pac myth.

Myth?

oxring wrote:Myth?

Yes myth. Credit to him for rising up weights, but the catchweight nonsense is just that nonsense. If you want to proclaim yourself to bbe the best, beat the best at their natural weight.

Hatton? Give me a break. Clottey? Nope. As for the rest he beat, all weight drained. Even Clottey, when he was bothered to throw punchs landed a few. Imagine what Floyd would to to him with his accuracy. Even SSM has a chance for the first 3 rounds before he tires and age catches up with him (which it has already).

Pac is a fraud. He could even beat Haye and Klits if they decide to come down to welter. Would that make Pac the best heavy?

Yep. Fraud when he won his first belt aged 19. When at 21 he stepped up to stop Ledwaba on 2 weeks notice. When he stopped a prime Barrera, went 2/3 with Morales, beat Barrera, Solis, Marquez...

Manny was a great fighter before he ever fought DLH.

oxring wrote:Yep. Fraud when he won his first belt aged 19. When at 21 he stepped up to stop Ledwaba on 2 weeks notice. When he stopped a prime Barrera, went 2/3 with Morales, beat Barrera, Solis, Marquez...

Manny was a great fighter before he ever fought DLH.

I'm specifically referring to the post ODLH error/era. Catchweight is a nonsense. To be called the best you have to beat the best at the right weight and not a weight drained fighter. Thats a fraud and a nonsense. I have much respect for the brilliance of Ray Leonard, but calling himself a 5 weight champ on the account of beating a Donny LaLonde is fraudulent.

OK fine. Catchweight isn't right. Bit harsh to be calling someone a fraud based on the latter part of their career though...

But what about Floyd's stipulations about gloves, ring size and ref choices? If the best fight the best, why did we never slate him when he was p4p king?

Catchweight is being brought up as a stick to beat manny. Folks were saying that Manny had a rehydration clause in place for the Margarito fight. Some clause if it allowed him to be outweighed by a stone on fight night. But the people to blame for calling 151 the LMW "title" are not Manny's team - but the WBC for allowing it.

oxring wrote:OK fine. Catchweight isn't right. Bit harsh to be calling someone a fraud based on the latter part of their career though...

But what about Floyd's stipulations about gloves, ring size and ref choices? If the best fight the best, why did we never slate him when he was p4p king?

Catchweight is being brought up as a stick to beat manny. Folks were saying that Manny had a rehydration clause in place for the Margarito fight. Some clause if it allowed him to be outweighed by a stone on fight night. But the people to blame for calling 151 the LMW "title" are not Manny's team - but the WBC for allowing it.

My apologies for not making it clear.

As for stipulations, it doesn't bother me much. SRL did the same thing when he fought Hagler. Floyd fights the best at their weight. There is no physical advantage in asking for a particular type of glove (no noticable difference that is). The bigger rings gives the boxer the advantage against the brawler, but a skilled brawler should be able to cut off the ring a la Duran, Tyson or Foreman.

Who did Floyd avoid when he was (still is imo) P4P king? Bear in mind that he wasn't the most active of fighters anyway.

azania wrote:
Who did Floyd avoid when he was (still is imo) P4P king? Bear in mind that he wasn't the most active of fighters anyway.

Well...

At LWW - he picked a fight with Gatti over the LWW king, Tszyu. At WW he didn't fight Margarito, Cotto or P Williams. At LMW he picked Oscar - who had won the belt off the weakest of the LMW champs in Mayorga - and never defended it - retiring instead. He fought Judah and Baldomir and no-one else. Instead of a Cotto/Margarito - he made Hatton move up a weight (where he hadn't ever looked comfortable) and gave him a pasting.

Let's not forget - Floyd made a catchweight fight with Marquez - and then couldn't be bothered to make the catchweight - he DID come in to the ring in great shape BUT at 147.

What's worse - having a catchweight - or having a catchweight, making your opponent stick to it but not bothering to yourself.

Record for record - Floyd's is inferior to Manny's. Floyd is in the reckoning because of his sublime skills only.

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oxring wrote:

azania wrote:
Who did Floyd avoid when he was (still is imo) P4P king? Bear in mind that he wasn't the most active of fighters anyway.

Well...

At LWW - he picked a fight with Gatti over the LWW king, Tszyu. At WW he didn't fight Margarito, Cotto or P Williams. At LMW he picked Oscar - who had won the belt off the weakest of the LMW champs in Mayorga - and never defended it - retiring instead. He fought Judah and Baldomir and no-one else. Instead of a Cotto/Margarito - he made Hatton move up a weight (where he hadn't ever looked comfortable) and gave him a pasting.

Let's not forget - Floyd made a catchweight fight with Marquez - and then couldn't be bothered to make the catchweight - he DID come in to the ring in great shape BUT at 147.

What's worse - having a catchweight - or having a catchweight, making your opponent stick to it but not bothering to yourself.

Record for record - Floyd's is inferior to Manny's. Floyd is in the reckoning because of his sublime skills only.

Gatti was the bigger name fighter. Boxing is a business and you go where the money is. I wouldn't call him a ducker for not fighting Tszyu. How many fights did he have at WW? If he fought Cotto any would have said he ducked Marg and vice versa. He is in a no win situation. Oscar was the biggest name in boxing when Floyd fought him. He fought him at Oscar's weight and won. No weight stipulation prior the weigh in and post the weigh in.

Dont forget that Floyd is not a natural WW either. Hatton was the bigger man in the ring. Floyd is probably a LWW at best.

Floyd was wrong to insist on catchweight with marquez. You wont get any arguments from me there. Floyd will take Pac to the cleaners and probably stop him in 10 (providing Pac takes the tests).

D4thincarnation wrote:The main reason why Pacquiao did not win is because boxing has drifted away from the mainstream of sport and even the biggest star in the sport does not have the same crossover power to mainstream media.

Pacquiao is by far the biggest and most successful star of boxing of his generation and this can be seen by the numerous boxing awards he has won.

To even get nominated in the Laureus sport awards shows that Pacquiao is getting boxing more into the mainstream again.

The reason why he didn't win was because Nadal's accomplishments in 2010 was superior that Pac's actchweight fights. Plus Floyd is bigger box office. Look at the buys as proof.

azania wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:The main reason why Pacquiao did not win is because boxing has drifted away from the mainstream of sport and even the biggest star in the sport does not have the same crossover power to mainstream media.

Pacquiao is by far the biggest and most successful star of boxing of his generation and this can be seen by the numerous boxing awards he has won.

To even get nominated in the Laureus sport awards shows that Pacquiao is getting boxing more into the mainstream again.

The reason why he didn't win was because Nadal's accomplishments in 2010 was superior that Pac's actchweight fights. Plus Floyd is bigger box office. Look at the buys as proof.

I think you both have a point - boxing is no longer as mainstream and Nadal also had an incredible year.

Love the fact that one of the things I see on here after wandering in from 606 is a D4 article on Manny. Good times indeed!!

It would be great to see a boxer win this award. This year has been in many ways the pinnicle of Pacquiao's career. Defeated Margarito to become an 8 weight world champ, for a guy who started out at Flyweight. He is boxings no 1 right now and deserves all the accolades he receives. Nadal's a fine tennis player, but how about boxings no 1? Plus, what a great sportsman Pacquiao is, one of the rings gentlemen.

ArchBritishchris wrote:It would be great to see a boxer win this award. This year has been in many ways the pinnicle of Pacquiao's career. Defeated Margarito to become an 8 weight world champ, for a guy who started out at Flyweight. He is boxings no 1 right now and deserves all the accolades he receives. Nadal's a fine tennis player, but how about boxings no 1? Plus, what a great sportsman Pacquiao is, one of the rings gentlemen.

It would be good. But I'd prefer a "clean" boxer to win it. Not one with "issues" hanging over his head.

if manny beat martinez @ 154 and floyd @ 147 then yeah. He has faced hasbeens and neever were in 2010 so no

Youarethegreatest wrote:if manny beat martinez @ 154 and floyd @ 147 then yeah. He has faced hasbeens and neever were in 2010 so no

Who do you think would win. Pac or a boiled down Klit (either) at 160lbs....for the heavyweight title?

Think you're being a tad unfair.

Yes - Floyd isn't a big WW - BUT - neither is pac - so all your defences about Floyd's choice of fighters have to be applied to Manny as well.

Yes - Floyd fought boxers who made him good money. But once in a while, wouldn't it have been nice to see him take on and beat a real challenge - a bit more o a pick'em fight? Cotto had/has great boxing skills and a good dig - so would have been a challenge.

As such - it is reasonable to ask about Tszyu instead of Gatti. It is fair to ask about Cotto/Margarito instead of Hatton. Hatton at welter had struggled with Collazo. In fact - very nearly lost to Collazo. That's it.

Oscar was a good (albeit close) win. No arguments from me there.

However - Manny's record since moving up is pretty excellent.

He has 3 fighters he needs to beat. 1 is Mosley. I think the fight stinks, but judging by the US boards - they've written off his last 2 fights as him struggling with a divorce, but he'll be ready for this one, apparently. And as such, Sugar Shane is still a name - so he's a good opponent for Manny.

2 is Bradley, at 140. I've always felt that 140 is Manny's best weight. He needs to go back down and prove he's still the king.

3 is Floyd.

Regarding the testing - the issues have been done to death a million times. Manny's camp have claimed they agreed to Floyd's demands and Floyd still didn't want the fight. Floyd's team claimed no-one reached out to them.

The truth is out there. Really - what you take from it all depends on who you prefer to believe. I see no reason, however, to believe Floyd's words over Arums. Floyd is as much of a deceiver as Bob.

oxring wrote:Think you're being a tad unfair.

Yes - Floyd isn't a big WW - BUT - neither is pac - so all your defences about Floyd's choice of fighters have to be applied to Manny as well.

Yes - Floyd fought boxers who made him good money. But once in a while, wouldn't it have been nice to see him take on and beat a real challenge - a bit more o a pick'em fight? Cotto had/has great boxing skills and a good dig - so would have been a challenge.

As such - it is reasonable to ask about Tszyu instead of Gatti. It is fair to ask about Cotto/Margarito instead of Hatton. Hatton at welter had struggled with Collazo. In fact - very nearly lost to Collazo. That's it.

Oscar was a good (albeit close) win. No arguments from me there.

However - Manny's record since moving up is pretty excellent.

He has 3 fighters he needs to beat. 1 is Mosley. I think the fight stinks, but judging by the US boards - they've written off his last 2 fights as him struggling with a divorce, but he'll be ready for this one, apparently. And as such, Sugar Shane is still a name - so he's a good opponent for Manny.

2 is Bradley, at 140. I've always felt that 140 is Manny's best weight. He needs to go back down and prove he's still the king.

3 is Floyd.

Regarding the testing - the issues have been done to death a million times. Manny's camp have claimed they agreed to Floyd's demands and Floyd still didn't want the fight. Floyd's team claimed no-one reached out to them.

The truth is out there. Really - what you take from it all depends on who you prefer to believe. I see no reason, however, to believe Floyd's words over Arums. Floyd is as much of a deceiver as Bob.

Ox

Yep it applies to Floyd also. But the difference is, Floyd hasn't fought a weight drained fighter. He (Marquez aside which I believe he took to prove a point to Manny) there have been no weight stipulations. To be the best you have to beat the best at the correct weight.

I'd rather a boxer who fights the best with weigh stipulations, than a boxer who doesn't fight the best.

Floyd is in the latter camp.

Even the drug testing - which, although most find a perfectly reasonable demand - is a self imposed obstacle to a fight taking place. Floyd doesn't set the regulations - NSAC do. What makes it all the more hypocritical is that Floyd won't fight in texas as he's using xylocaine - which is banned in Nevada as a performance enhancing drug.

All this means in my opinion is that 1. Floyd is a tad hypocritical re: PEDs and 2. Floyd concentrates on money more than boxing.

For a flagship fighter - that's a pretty poor representative for the sport

I'd rather a boxer who fights the best with weigh stipulations, than a boxer who doesn't fight the best.

Strange comment. A weight drained boxer is in an immediate disadvantage so in effect he is not fighting the best.

Floyd is willing to take exactly the same test as the ones Pac is refusing to take. Nothing hypocritical about that.

yes he does focus on money. I dont like that, but I am not the one taking the punches and if I were, I would want maximum reward. I recall Larry Holmes saying that a boxer who claims to be fighting for glory is lying...he fights for money and money only.

Who do you think would win. Pac or a boiled down Klit (either) at 160lbs....for the heavyweight title?

either klit would have to crawl to the ring and then you'll see roach saying jump on him manny!

They could fight for the WBA Diamond title for the vacant Super welt, Mid, Super Mid, Light Heavy, Cruiser, heavy and recently introduced (just for this fight) Super Heavy thereby proclaiming Manny the champ in all divisions above fly.

azania wrote:I'd rather a boxer who fights the best with weigh stipulations, than a boxer who doesn't fight the best.

1Strange comment. A weight drained boxer is in an immediate disadvantage so in effect he is not fighting the best.

2Floyd is willing to take exactly the same test as the ones Pac is refusing to take. Nothing hypocritical about that.

yes he does focus on money. I dont like that, but I am not the one taking the punches and if I were, I would want maximum reward. I recall Larry Holmes saying that a boxer who claims to be fighting for glory is lying...he fights for money and money only.

1 No - he's still fighting the best - but at a disadvantage. Their skills and will remain the same.

2 No - Floyd is willing to take the same test as Pac is "refusing" (I'll address that in a moment) as long as the test is specified by NSAC not Texas - as Texas would ban him from using xylocaine - which in boxing terms is a PED.

Finally is Manny really refusing? Manny's team say Floyd offered full random testing up to 7 days before the fight, which they agreed to. Floyd's team say they didn't agree. Who you believe is a matter of opinion, nothing more.

1 No - he's still fighting the best - but at a disadvantage. Their skills and will remain the same.

2 No - Floyd is willing to take the same test as Pac is "refusing" (I'll address that in a moment) as long as the test is specified by NSAC not Texas - as Texas would ban him from using xylocaine - which in boxing terms is a PED.

Finally is Manny really refusing? Manny's team say Floyd offered full random testing up to 7 days before the fight, which they agreed to. Floyd's team say they didn't agree. Who you believe is a matter of opinion, nothing more.

1) He will not be fighting the best for the simple reason you give..a huge disadvantage. A weight drained fighter does not have the same skills or stamina as if he were fighting in peak condition.

2) I take your point but the fight was not scheduled for texas but Nevada. is xylocaine a PED? If so what benefit does it give a boxer?

I recall Manny refusing the tesr and then agreeing 14 days which is still useless seeing as PEDS can be out of the system in 10 days if administered properly.

azania wrote:
1) He will not be fighting the best for the simple reason you give..a huge disadvantage. A weight drained fighter does not have the same skills or stamina as if he were fighting in peak condition.

2) I take your point but the fight was not scheduled for texas but Nevada. is xylocaine a PED? If so what benefit does it give a boxer?

I recall Manny refusing the tesr and then agreeing 14 days which is still useless seeing as PEDS can be out of the system in 10 days if administered properly.

Yes - PEDs can clear in 10 days - BUT he wouldn't be doping at that point ANYWAY (or if he would he's an idiot as they wouldn't help much - he should be tapering then, not still building). Anyway - Manny's team have claimed that they agreed to 7 days and in the end to anything with a 48h window before the fight. Its down to who you believe. Ellerbe claimed then that no-one had even spoken to them. Then Golden boy came and said that a fight HAD been in the works. Its all murky and confusing and - its down to who you believe. And I see nothing in Floyd that makes him that believeable. Hell - PEDs are only discussed due to a smear campaign from him and his father. Its pathetic.

Yes - a weightdrained boxer won't be as good BUT - how bad have the catchweights been?

He fights DLH at 147. There's a lot of talk now about "rehydration clauses" - but no-one mentioned it at the time and I'm not sure that its fair criticism - or just an excuse to Pacbash. Manny moved up from 135 for the fight - which no-one thought he would do effectively. DLH was roundly criticised for making the fight instead of Margarito - who he should have fought. Yes Oscar looked a shell - bu he'd have been beaten like that anyway - Manny was too quick for him at Oscar's age. Oscar chose to make that fight - so I have no sympathy with how the fight ended up.

He fights Hatton at 140. No catchweight. Haton the LWW king, unbeaten at the weight, back of a redemption/rejuvenating win over Paulie Malignaggi, the LWW no2. He destroys Hatton in 2.

He fights Cotto at 144. Yes, it shouldn't have been for the title - but 3 pounds isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things and Cotto made the weight comfortably - and didn't look weightdrained. He's had stamina issues his whole career so it was no surprise that he tired down the stretch. Anyway - that fight shouldnt' have been stopped - Cotto was fine. He'd have lost, but he was fine.

He fights Clottey at 147. No catchweight. Clottey chooses not to throw punches for some reason.

He fights Margarito at 151 (weighing in at 147). Margarito comes into the ring at 160. Manny demolishes him. The only issue with that fight is that it was deemed worthy of a world title belt. Otherwise it was fine. Yes - the LMW title is at 154. Yes, Margarito wasn't no.1 contender for the title. But that's my issue with the governing body, not the fighter. Margarito was a career welterweight, had no trouble with the extra 4 pounds - was tipped (by Vivek Wallace) amongst others to win it and was torn apart.

So actually - I don't think the catchweights have been as bad as people claim. DLH had to go down 1 division for the fight - Manny had to go up 2. DLH hoped Manny wouldn't bring his power - and was wrong.

Finally - xylocaine. Xylocaine is a local anaesthetic (same family as lidocaine etc). Using xylocaine allows him to punch harder for loner - hence why texas see it as a PED for boxers. It certainly shouldn't be used on fight night in my opinion as that is a clear and unfair advantage - equivalent to loading the gloves. And in training - it confers the same advantages as EPO, or HGH, or anabolics - in that it allows you to train harder and for longer. In my opinion, it should be banned for that reason.

Would have to point out that Mayweather has never actually been proven to use Xylocaine which is a painkiller not a PED, it's a stronger form of Codeine effectively

With the exception of Marquez, Mayweather has actually fought the opponents the American public wanted him to at that point in time, in hindsight there's always talk of Margarito and Cotto, i'll ignore Mosley who refused the fight on more than one occassion. On his move up to Welterweight, the Judah fight was first on the agenda which was made slightly complicated by the Baldomir loss so he beat the top two in the division before moving up to fight the boxer everyone wanted him to in De La Hoya. After Hattons destruction of Tzuyu he was seen as some sort of unstoppable force in America and was heavily backed to cause Mayweather problems and it was Hattons insistence that the fight take place at 147lbs not Mayweathers.

Not quite fair ghosty -

1. Xylocaine is NOT like codeine. Codeine is an opiate, not a particularly strong opiate. Xylocaine is a local anaesthetic - basically the same drug as given in epidurals - but injected sub-cutaneously - it dulls ALL pain sensation in the hands. Think a dental procedure - the reason you don't feel the doctor add a filling/remove your tooth is because of local anaesthetic. It acts through stabilisation of membrane potentials, especially through sodium channels. Codeine acts on specific synaptic receptors. Basically - long and short of it - very different. Medic rant over. However - it is performance enhancing because it allows you to punch through the pain barrier - as you can't feel pain. Its like loading the gloves - as you can take reasonable injury and keep punching whilst in severe pain.

As to whether Floyd has used xylocaine - see this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAIQBcpHpSs&feature=player_embedded
If he doesn't - why did he allow it to be said on 24/7?

Imagine if on 360 - someone said "to combat fatigue, like many fighters, Manny has resorted to EPO". There'd be a furore.

Xylocaine is banned for a reason - and should remain so.

RE: Floyd fighting everyone the US public wanted him to -

That's not really true though is it? After Gatti, he was specifically asked about Tszyu and Hatton at 140. After BOTH ODLH AND Hatton he was specifically asked about Cotto and Margarito. Both indications of public interest. Both ignored.

Floyd's resume isn't as bad as many make out - but it doesn't hold a candle to Manny's and it is unreasonable for anti-pacfans to criticise Manny's resume without accepting the same criticisms apply to Floyd's career.

He was asked about Tzuyu and Hatton but what soon happened?
Hatton beats Tzuyu and wants nothing to do with either Cotto or Mayweather at 140lbs, it wasn't until Hatton beat Castillo that he became interested in fighting Mayweather but at 147lbs where he had a ready made excuse and keeps hold of his number one status at 140lbs.

There was no point in time where a fight with either Cotto or Margarito was financially beneficial and rightly or wrongly it makes no sense to take on a risky fight if the money isn't right. With regards to both Pacquiao and Mayweather no matter who they take on it's never good enough once they've won. Pacquiao beats Cotto but as soon as he wins he should have taken on Mosley. Mayweather beats the number one ranked Welterweight in Mosley and beats him convincingly and then suddenly he should have fought someone else instead. Mayweather is given too hard a ride for his choice of opponents because with the exception of Gatti and Marquez which both made financial sense he's always faced who's considered dangerous at the time.

Last time I checked Xylocaine wasn't actually on the Anti Doping restricted list, it's only banned by certain comissions and isn't banned by any other sports to clear that one up

Did you read my paragraph? I explained why xylocaine is bad! Yes, its not banned by wada - but nor is pladtering your hands - we both think that's illegal. It's boxing specific. NSAC don't ban it - so Floyd fights for them and brings in commission money. Texas do ban it, hence Floyd telling Bob to take a running jump when he suggested the fight be in Texas.

Anyway - you rightfully defend Floyd by sayin he fought the money options. Great for his bank. Not for his legacy.

Of the 2 - pacmans is better.

We'll have to agree to disagree mate, I think both are at the same time over-rated and under-rated, they're the best of the current crop but there's too many question marks over both to have them breaking into any top 20 rankings for me. At the respective weights they've fought at I don't see much between the pairs opposition, Manny has taken on the bigger names but not while they were at their best (not his fault) while Mayweather has with the exception of Gatti and Marquez fought people ranked 1 or 2. Would love to see the pair fight and would rather predictably pick Mayweather on decision or late stoppage depending on his mood, he hits a lot harder than people give him credit for.

Until Xylocaine is banned by WADA then rightly or wrongly you're within your rights to use it, when I use to cycle I had to take Cortison injections in my knees and again i'd question whether that should be allowed to be used

He wasnt even boxer of the year, nevermind sportsman of the year!

Classic thread....

we need more like this..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Classic thread....

we need more like this..

Against the rules to bring up old threads for no good reason.

Only against the rules for people like you..now run a long..

How my opinion has changed since then.

I won't tell anybody Ghosty!!

I'm blaming D4, he did weird things to peoples minds.

I got time for D4. I got time for his articles (even ones that are 2 years old) but its fair to say that Panny Poochio has has a few whoopings recently and D4 needs to find a new fighter to promote

Steffan wrote:I got time for D4. I got time for his articles (even ones that are 2 years old) but its fair to say that Panny Poochio has has a few whoopings recently and D4 needs to find a new fighter to promote

I'd love to hear what he's got to say after Pac's recent beating.

D4's new fighter/hero will be Nonito Donaire. He always had a soft spot for Donaire - I think because they were from the same country he seen him as an extension of Pacquiao. Ah D4, what a strange, strange guy.

Is amazing how people get all dewy eyed and nostalgic over someone once they have gone. Can't remember too many people declaring their undying love for D4 when he was posting on here and hijacking every thread, no matter the subject matter, with his tedious agenda. Who knows though, maybe my memory plays tricks on me.

I wonder if Gordy will inspire the same affection. The only one I miss is waingro, him leaving was like a little puppy running away from home... Heartwrenching

Yeh, had a soft spot Waingro myself. Gordy just posts like a special. Had hoped once Il Giaballu had exposed him so brilliantly he'd return to being normal, as he is on other boards, but unfortunately he seems destined to forever haunt the boxing board only as Casper the Joey Deacon Ghost

This may be the source of the nostalgia:

http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/179860

seanmichaels wrote:This may be the source of the nostalgia:

http://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/179860

Lol that's such a cack forum. Glad most of the good posters moved here instead.

Can't believe we/the mods got stick from BBC for simply saying 'from the ashes of 606' in the forum tag-line but ja606 is allowed to be a 100% rip-off down to every tiny detail!

I love the wally who wrote "The reason Mayweather won't go down as an alltime great"

Dear oh dear...

Denial is a terrible thing..