Aviva Premiership - Round 4

Table

POS		TEAM			-W-		-D-		-L-		-PF-		-PA-		-DIFF-		-TF-		-TA-		-TB-		-LB-		-PTS-
1		Bath Rugby		3		3		0		0		##		41		72		12		6		2		0		14
2		Saracens		3		3		0		0		96		28		68		11		1		2		0		14
3		Wasps		3		3		0		0		##		64		65		17		7		2		0		14
4		Leicester Tigers		3		2		0		1		74		78		-4		8		9		1		0		9
5		Gloucester Rugby		3		1		1		1		80		74		6		8		10		1		1		8
6		Northampton Saints		3		1		0		2		58		55		3		6		3		1		1		6
7		Exeter Chiefs		3		1		0		2		69		84		-15		8		11		1		1		6
8		Sale Sharks		3		1		0		2		49		55		-6		5		4		0		1		5
9		Newcastle Falcons		3		1		0		2		37		89		-52		3		11		0		1		5
10		Harlequins		3		1		0		2		56		74		-18		6		9		0		0		4
11		Worcester Warriors		3		0		1		2		48		95		-47		6		10		0		0		2
12		Bristol Rugby		3		0		0		3		51		123		-72		7		16		0		1		1

Fixtures

Friday September 21

19:45 Bristol Rugby v Exeter Chiefs BT SPORT
Referee: Tom Foley (21st Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Greg MacDonald & Paul Dix
TMO: Sean Davey

Exeter travel to Ashton Gate for the first meeting between these two sides since the 2010 playoff final. Bristol will have been shocked by the size of the thumping they received last week, though much better teams than them have struggled when Wasps are in full flight. The longer the newly promoted team go without winning, the harder it gets as nerves set in. This though will probably not be that elusive first win. Exeter, off the back of their own first win of the season in Round 3, should have far too much grunt, skill and application for Andy Robinson’s team.


Saturday September 22

15:00 Harlequins v Saracens
Referee: Craig Maxwell-Keys (19th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Nigel Carrick & Phil Watters
TMO: David Grashoff

Quins are struggling for any sort of form, so perversely a visit from reigning champions could be exactly what they need. No-one expects anything from them, so they can adopt a siege mentality and just concentrate on their basics. Mark McCall has been rotating players already, and if Kruis is fit may take the opportunity to give Itoje a rest. He has intimated that Owen Farrell should be fit enough to play some part in proceedings, which will be a huge relief to Eddie Jones. It is hard to see anything other than the Saracens juggernaut continuing on it’s merry way.


15:00 Worcester Warriors v Sale Sharks
Referee: JP Doyle (116th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Greg Garner & Roy Maybank
TMO: David Rose

Like Bristol, Worcester are still seeking a first win. With a Sale team that is not at it’s best travelling down the M6/M5 they have every chance to breaking their season’s duck today and perhaps moving a spot or two up the table. Sale have injury concerns at 10, issues with their set-piece. Their game will be built on a ferocious defence but will need their goal kickers to be on form.


15:00 Gloucester Rugby v Newcastle Falcons
Dean Richards (88th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Andrew Jackson & Jonathan Healy
TMO: David Sainsbury

It seems rather unfair that this game will be reffed by the visitors DoR . We still do not know what to expect from the home team, consistent only in their inconsistency. Falcons will be hurting after the last two weeks. The positives from last weekend were that their defence kept Tigers well shackled. However they had so many opportunities to take any reffing decisions out of the equation that they can blame no-one but themselves for the defeat. The first 15 minutes had surely provided a template for how they could win – but they stopped playing like that. They were inept at the breakdown and butchered any number of chances. They need to play much better if they are to win. Gloucester need to show the same character they have in the last 120 minutes of rugby. If this is aligned to the flair the demonstrated in the first 40 minutes of the season it could be another long day for poor Falcon’s fans.


15:00 Northampton Saints v Wasps BT SPORT
Referee: Luke Pearce (52nd Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Steve Lee & Andy Watson
TMO: Rowan Kitt

Fascinating game. Saints will surely try to make it an arm wrestle, of the sort that worked for so long against Saracens. I am looking forward to seeing how the two back rows match up. If his tight five can hold their own, Joe Simpson (assuming Robson still injured) can be expected to try and capitalise on any lack of pace in the Saints team, especially around the fringes. Saints will surely look at sending their big runners down the 10/12 channel.



Sunday September 23

15:00 Leicester Tigers v Bath Rugby BT SPORT
Referee: Matthew Carley (46th Premiership game)
Assistant Referees: Tim Wigglesworth & Gareth Copsey
TMO: Trevor Fisher

To describe Leicester as lacklustre would be kind. They have started all three games so far this season poorly and had to play catch up rugby. They have to be better than they have been, but are they capable of that atm? Too often in recent seasons Bath have come to Welford Road and looked to flex their muscles rather than their brain. Such tactics would be dumb in the extreme. Play as they have done in attack this season and Tigers shaky defence could be conceding yet another TBP.

Ill be interested to see if we are interested in away games or just focusing on home games.

If we put up a poor showing this weekend then ill know which one!

I can't resist tempting fate - Bath must fancy their chance at Welford Road.....
Garvey, JJ and the increasingly influential young Tom Ellis are all in contention for selection.
Ah well, then again three wins out if four would be OK and with Sale the following weekend.

The real test for Bath will be after the Autumn internationals when we play mostly the current top half of the AP.

Don't jinx us! Tigers will be fired up and surely better than the last few matches.

If we get drawn into a slugging match as we have done in recent seasons we will lose, far too many inexperienced forwards in the squad and with a real homer ref, I'm not that confident really.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Don't jinx us! Tigers will be fired up and surely better than the last few matches.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Honestly if Bath have serious ambitions of reaching finals and winning then this weekend's match is one they should be fully expecting to win. Tigers are as vulnerable now as they have been for years. Attack is functioning as poorly as it was a couple of seasons ago when only London Welsh scored less tries, only now the ability to have >70% possession and grind out wins has dramatically diminished.
Tigers will obviously be fired up, but if the Bath management know what they are doing the players will know that this is a great opportunity to pick up some early season momentum.

Exeter
Saracens
Worcester
Gloucester
Saints
Tigers

Strange to think that this is Quins first game at the Stoop this season.

I don't think I'll be going, in fact I may just avoid all scores for this weekend and pretend it isn't happening.

This is the probably first time in a while that it wouldn't surprise me if the away team won every match.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Honestly if Bath have serious ambitions of reaching finals and winning then this weekend's match is one they should be fully expecting to win. Tigers are as vulnerable now as they have been for years. Attack is functioning as poorly as it was a couple of seasons ago when only London Welsh scored less tries, only now the ability to have >70% possession and grind out wins has dramatically diminished.
Tigers will obviously be fired up, but if the Bath management know what they are doing the players will know that this is a great opportunity to pick up some early season momentum.

A couple of years ago we had no attacking game plan and tried to just out muscle the opposition. Currently we seem to have a game plan in attack but the individual error count is massive. Similar in defence. Generally the line is good and we can hold up a team for multiple phases. On kick chases, broken field or when we require individual decision making it all goes to hell in a handcart.

Bristol Rugby team to face Exeter Chiefs at Ashton Gate on Friday, 23 September (7.45pm KO):
15. Jordan Williams; 14. Ryan Edwards, 13. Will Hurrell, 12. Thretton Palamo, 11. Tom Varndell; 10. Tusi Pisi, 9. Will Cliff; 1. Kyle Traynor, 2. Ross McMillan, 3. Gaston Cortes, 4. James Phillips, 5. Mark Sorenson, 6. Jon Fisher, 7. Jack Lam (c), 8. Jordan Crane.
Replacements: 16. Max Crumpton, 17. Soane Tonga’uiha, 18. Jamal Ford-Robinson, 19. Joe Joyce, 20. Mitch Eadie, 21. Martin Roberts, 22. Adrian Jarvis, 23. Charlie Amesbury.


Ben Mosses (knee) is sidelined for up to twelve weeks and the centre is joined by Gavin Henson (dead leg), Ben Glynn (shoulder), Marc Jones (knee), David Lemi (knee), Callum Sheedy (hamstring), Glen Townson (knee) and Ryan Bevington (head).

CHIEFS SIDE TO FACE BRISTOL
15 Lachie Turner
14 Olly Woodburn
13 Henry Slade
12 Sam Hill
11 Ian Whitten
10 Gareth Steenson (capt)
9 Will Chudley
1 Alec Hepburn
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie
3 Greg Holmes
4 Mitch Lees
5 Damian Welch
6 Dave Dennis
7 Julian Salvi
8 Thomas Waldrom
16 Jack Yeandle
17 Ben Moon
18 Harry Williams
19 Geoff Parling
20 Kai Horstmann
21 Dave Lewis
22 Ollie Devoto
23 James Short

After two matches at 10 and one at 12, Slade back to 13.

More to do with Baxter starting to think Devoto was a mistake?

Exeter have been rotating players quite a lot, so not easy to read much into anything.

No 7&1/2 wrote:More to do with Baxter starting to think Devoto was a mistake?

Massive mistake terrible player. Send him back to bath immediately. Please.

When he came through looked a great player, but stalled a fair bit. Sure he'll get better but he's not looked very good for Exeter yet.

Tigers can't be too upset. 4th in table is decent. Winning 2 games they could well have lost. Played 3 tough matches, 2 being away from home at difficult grounds against stern opposition.

Also plenty of room for improvement for Leicester which is promising for them.

So many youngsters come through with big reps, but seem to stall.

That's the difference with us and say NZ...their hyped players come and shine....

We need to start ensuring the transition is more successful from winning JWC's to performing at the same standard for the seniors.

I think it's pretty good to be honest. Depends what you're eventually looking for or expecting to see I suppose.

GeordieFalcon wrote:So many youngsters come through with big reps, but seem to stall.

That's the difference with us and say NZ...their hyped players come and shine....

We need to start ensuring the transition is more successful from winning JWC's to performing at the same standard for the seniors.

Think it can be partly down to lack of gametime/lack of trust.

H.Mallinder is an example of this. He should really be becoming the lynchpin of the Saints backline, he should be running the show in that midfield but his father isn't starting him for some reason.

Various players at Saracens like Spencer and Tompkins just aren't getting the starts they need.

Perhaps Slade is still suffering from his long term injury.

Also I guess it could be the high expectations and pressure put on youngsters.

Not every young talent will come through and be a success. At age level there are flaws in players games that are not as apparent as they are at senior level. Take Mallinder, he played 10 for the under 20s and soared. Helped by the fact he was a physically dominant player with a powerful 12 and high quality openside. At senior level he's big but nowhere near as physically dominant nor does the players he has around him enjoy the difference in skill level. Suddenly he's under a lot more pressure and is being moved back to the centres/utility back option again. He really should be playing more at 12 for Saints but he won't necessarily become their lynch pin immediately. Probably after another year or two he should be and that's because experience is important in rugby.

Something that Slade is learning about currently. The difference between him and Steenson is that Steenson has been there and done it and will make the right decision. Slade has a better skill set but is still gaining that experience and moving him around the midfield will probably help him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:So many youngsters come through with big reps, but seem to stall.

That's the difference with us and say NZ...their hyped players come and shine....

We need to start ensuring the transition is more successful from winning JWC's to performing at the same standard for the seniors.

You say that GF, but think of a couple of the big NZ u20 stars of recent years, and how long they've taken to come to the fore, then compare that to the rise of Itoje or Watson

Of the NZ u20 side that Slade competed against, only Ardie Savea has become an international, and even then thats really this season. Of the same squad, Patrick Tuipolotu, Jason Emery and Lolagi Visnia all seemed like standouts too, but haven't quite kicked on

If we're talking established internationals in the first team you're not going to get 100% conversion, or even that many consistently each year you'd have to start wondering why there's such a high turn over.

To be fair we've had Marler, Haskell, Youngs, Lawes, Manu, Farrel, Ford, Watson, Itoje, Nowell all make it at Int level over the last 6+ years.

Probably the weakest are for successful U20's transition has been flanker where presumed greats like Rees, Narroway, Crane and others have all missed out.

LondonTiger wrote:After two matches at 10 and one at 12, Slade back to 13.

After some tooing and throwing I think its now obvious that 13 is Slade's real position and where he will challenge for international selection.

He can cover 10, 12 & 15, and maybe as things stand will get a shot at FB sooner than expected but ultimately 13 is his best chance, though of course this is complicated by the Ford Farrell axis.....

With Manu and Burrell seeming unable to achieve the required challenge to selection and our back three unconvincing, the back line is still EJ's biggest issue.

Slade played well at 10 though?

But not as well as Farrel or Ford. Or more importantly Steenson. I think he'll get more game time at 13 and could be handy there for Eng.

If we could just get Cips at 15 then I like the look of a majority fly half backline.

Bristol vs Exeter is one that interests me, but I can't really view it if it's not on Sky Sports? No access to BT around here pals.

None of the Prem games are on Sky Sports mikey, BT have exclusive rights unfortunately

Given Farrell hasn't played yet I'd think he's still thought of as a choice there. As for 12 or 13 I have no idea where Jones sees him. Thought it was 13 but then he's accepted Farrell at 12, and Slade is a step up from him at that position. Too many options to definitively say he'll play in one spot.

BamBam wrote:None of the Prem games are on Sky Sports mikey, BT have exclusive rights fortunately

Fixed that for you.

I miss the Sky commentary not one iota. BT actually bother to have post and pre game analysis also.

BT Sport match coverage is very good.  Their Rugby Tonight programme, not so much.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BamBam wrote:None of the Prem games are on Sky Sports mikey, BT have exclusive rights fortunately

Fixed that for you.

I miss the Sky commentary not one iota. BT actually bother to have post and pre game analysis also.

Yeah that sounds about right, I thought Sky might still broadcast one or two games for some reason. I usually watch the highlights on a sunday or Monday via ITV with David Flatman, that's a decent program.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37430092 - is Francis banned for more than a week? Wales are looking a 'bit thin' in the prop department at the moment.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

BamBam wrote:None of the Prem games are on Sky Sports mikey, BT have exclusive rights fortunately

Fixed that for you.

I miss the Sky commentary not one iota. BT actually bother to have post and pre game analysis also.

Haha .. I actually enjoy BT Sports production, but on a purely selfish level I don't have BT so can't watch it!!

BamBam wrote:None of the Prem games are on Sky Sports mikey, BT have exclusive rights unfortunately

Not unfortunate for me, I have Sky and BT Sport.

Got loads of disposable income you see.

Ozzy3213 wrote:BT Sport match coverage is very good.  Their Rugby Tonight programme, not so much.

Yep their match coverage and commentary is very good.

I do miss some of the sky analysis though, some of their data and stats was very good, while with BT you often end up with some old guys trying to be "lads" and just giving their opinions without anything to back it up.

Yeah but no Barnes means overall positive!

I tend to use other methods rather than paying through the nose for 3 rugby games a week

Yappysnap it is a lottery depending on which commentators you get. Dayglo and Monye have been really poor additions, than the sweet lord Kennedy was only a temporary addition also. Flatman is very good and too rarely involved.

I used to get BT free with my broadband but I notice that's no longer the case. Interesting to see what they say with my contract up for renewal.

Team news: Tigers versus Bath

23 September 2016 12:00

By Gary Sherrard

Marcos Ayerza is included in the Tigers front row for Sunday

Marcos Ayerza and Lachlan McCaffrey return to the Leicester Tigers forward pack for Sunday's Aviva Premiership Rugby Round 4 meeting with Bath Rugby at Welford Road.

International prop Ayerza, who made his debut for the club against Bath in September 2006 and his 200th starting appearance in the last home game against Wasps in Round 2, joins Dan Cole and captain Tom Youngs in the front row.

McCaffrey lines up alongside Mike Williams and Brendon O'Connor in the back row after also missing the win at Newcastle Falcons last weekend.

In the backline, Telusa Veainu moves to full-back, with Adam Thompstone coming into the back three.

Mathew Tait is named among the replacements and is in line for his 100th appearance for the club since his debut in 2011.

Tickets for Tigers versus Bath Rugby are still available from the Tigers ticket office. Book in person at Welford Road or phone 0116 319 8888 (option 2) between 9am and 5pm Friday or Saturday, or from 9am on matchday. Or book online any time by clicking here.

Leicester Tigers (v Bath Rugby, Welford Road, Sunday 3pm)
15 Telusa Veainu 
14 Adam Thompstone
13 Peter Betham 
12 Owen Williams
11 JP Pietersen 
10 Freddie Burns 
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza 
2 Tom Youngs (c) 
3 Dan Cole 
4 Mike Fitzgerald
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Mike Williams
7 Brendon O'Connor
8 Lachlan McCaffrey

Replacements
16 George McGuigan
17 Ellis Genge 
18 Greg Bateman
19 Ed Slater
20 Will Evans
21 Sam Harrison
22 Jack Roberts
23 Mathew Tait 

Tait dropped, hooray. Where the hell is Matt Smith!?! On performances this season our best centre. Still no place for Thacker which continues to bemuse many.

Leicester Tigers (v Bath Rugby, Welford Road, Sunday 3pm)
15 Telusa Veainu
14 Adam Thompstone
13 Peter Betham
12 Owen Williams
11 JP Pietersen
10 Freddie Burns
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Tom Youngs (c)
3 Dan Cole
4 Mike Fitzgerald
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Mike Williams
7 Brendon O'Connor
8 Lachlan McCaffrey

Replacements
16 George McGuigan
17 Ellis Genge
18 Greg Bateman
19 Ed Slater
20 Will Evans
21 Sam Harrison
22 Jack Roberts
23 Mathew Tait

Quins side for the weekend - Not sure whats happened to NEv, Ward is covering back row from bench. Hopper starting - Jeez!

15. Mike Brown
14. Marland Yarde
13. Matt Hopper
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Tim Visser
10. Tim Swiel
9. Danny Care (C)

1. Joe Marler
2. Rob Buchanan
3. Will Collier
4. George Merrick
5. James Horwill
6. Chris Robshaw
7. Luke Wallace
8. James Chisholm

16. Joe Gray
17. Mark Lambert
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Sam Twomey
20. Dave Ward
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Alofa Alofa

I am sad to see Tait dropped. He was poor against Glaws, but in last two matches been one of our better players, let down by the lazy feckers unwilling to get back and provide options. Our wing defence will need to improve markedly as I cannot see TV making the try saving tackles Tait has.

Bath Rugby team to face Leicester Tigers:

15. Tom Homer
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Matt Banahan
11. Anthony Watson
10. George Ford ( c )
9. Kahn Fotuali’i
1. Nathan Catt
2. Ross Batty
3. Henry Thomas
4. Charlie Ewels
5. Dave Attwood
6. Matt Garvey
7. Tom Ellis
8. Leroy Houston

Replacements:

16. Tom Dunn
17. Beno Obano
18. Max Lahiff
19. Elliott Stooke
20. Zach Mercer
21. Will Homer
22. Dan Bowden
23. Jeff Williams

Unavailable for selection: Nick Auterac, Luke Charteris, David Sisi, Max Clark, Rhys Priestland, Chris Cook, David Denton, Taulupe Faletau, Francois Louw, Niko Matawalu, Jack Walker, Guy Mercer.

Tait being dropped is a good thing for Tigers at the moment. Still no Manu.

Saracens team to face Harlequins

15 Alex Goode 212
14 Mike Ellery 25
13 Marcelo Bosch 70
12 Brad Barritt (C) 174
11 Chris Wyles 209
10 Alex Lozowski 3
9 Richard Wigglesworth 158
1 Mako Vunipola 103
2 Schalk Brits 174
3 Petrus Du Plessis 134
4 Maro Itoje 55
5 Jim Hamilton 51
6 Michael Rhodes 30
7 Jackson Wray 146
8 Billy Vunipola 63

Replacements

16 Jamie George 152
17 Richard Barrington 85
18 Juan Figallo 37
19 Kelly Brown 132
20 Scott Spurling 16
21 Ben Spencer 75
22 Nick Tompkins 37
23 Matt Gallagher 0

Like Quins, Sarries have a hooker covering back row on the bench. Sarries seem to have an injury crisis in the second and back rows. Also no Maitland and despite earlier suggestions still no Farrell.

Warriors
15 Jamie Shillcock
14 Perry Humphreys
13 Wynand Olivier
12 Jackson Willison
11 Cooper Vuna
10 Ryan Lamb
9 Jonny Arr
1 Val Rapava Ruskin
2 Niall Annett
3 Nick Schonert
4 Donncha O'Callaghan
5 Darren Barry
6 Alafoti Faosiliva
7 Carl Kirwan
8 Phil Dowson (C)

Replacements
16 Jaba Bregvadze
17 Na'ama Leleimalefaga
18 James Johnston
19 Christian Scotland-Williamson
20 Tevita Cavubati
21 Luke Baldwin
22 Max Stelling
23 Josh Adams