Well, what a surprise!

Saracens and Bath 'under investigation for alleged salary cap breach'

Link?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/11305609/Saracens-and-Bath-under-investigation-for-alleged-salary-cap-breach.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2881134/Saracens-Bath-face-heavy-fines-point-deductions-alleged-breaches-salary-cap-regulations.html

Does this mean that Mad Mad Mata has to stay at Glasgow?

It appears that while the governing bodies do not deny that Bath RFC and Saracens are under investigation, (after an insider has reported allegations of overseas players being paid into offshore accounts), no one can comment on the investigation due to it being an internal.

Other than the speculation first reported in the Mail, and the lack of any denial that this is on going by those who are carrying out these investigations there is not proof of smoke without fire.

These stories are two weeks old, and already discussed.

The article is from the 20th December? Was looking for new info

https://www.606v2.com/t56938-saracens-are-at-it-again

About half way down references the Mail article

Premier Rugby yesterday said it could not confirm the investigation because of its rules dictate that such inquiries remain confidential, but neither the league nor the two clubs denied a report in the Daily Mail that claimed that the inquiry was prompted after a ‘whistleblower’ – thought to be an unhappy agent – complained to the Premiership salary-cap auditors

So seems there's no proof at the moment, going on one unhappy agent who could easily be throwing his toys out if the pram and making things up, or bang on the money.

Interesting times ahead

[quote="yappysnap"]

Premier Rugby yesterday said it could not confirm the investigation because of its rules dictate that such inquiries remain confidential, but neither the league nor the two clubs denied a report in the Daily Mail that claimed that the inquiry was prompted after a ‘whistleblower’ – thought to be an unhappy agent – complained to the Premiership salary-cap auditors

So seems there's no proof at the moment, going on one unhappy agent who could easily be throwing his toys out if the pram and making things up, or bang on the money.

Interesting times ahead [/quoted there was no investigation then I would have thought that all parties would have denied there was an investigation. So I would say until someone says there is not its safe to assume there is an ongoing investigation, that as they say in the article, they are not allowed to discuss the on going case in public.

If one or both clubs are guilty of breaking the wage cap and hiding it the penalties are possibly severe. I wonder whether an example will be made as harshly as has been made of clubs that broke the rules in the past. Could both be demoted and fined?

maestegmafia wrote:Could both be demoted and fined?

No. Has not been done in the past, will not happen now. They may get a points deduction and that can be between 4 and 40.

Richmond RFC and London Scottish both relegated eight leagues for financial irregularities back 1999.

40 points wouldn't relegate either Saracens or Bath unless London Welsh turn their fortunes around.

I thought the pro-teams merged with London Irish and the amateur side re-entered the league structure at the bottom. so they weren't relegated, the pro-teams just ceased to exist.

HammerofThunor wrote:I thought the pro-teams merged with London Irish and the amateur side re-entered the league structure at the bottom. so they weren't relegated, the pro-teams just ceased to exist.

That's how I recall it. Crazy times back then. If you've ever been to the Athletic Ground (current home of both L.S. and Richmond - and I have many times) it was obvious it could not support pro rugby.

Hound of Harrow wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I thought the pro-teams merged with London Irish and the amateur side re-entered the league structure at the bottom. so they weren't relegated, the pro-teams just ceased to exist.

That's how I recall it. Crazy times back then. If you've ever been to the Athletic Ground (current home of both L.S. and Richmond - and I have many times) it was obvious it could not support pro rugby.

That's what I recall, as well.  The pro game was in its infancy and the clubs went insolvent, hence the arrangement with London Irish.  I don't remember the specific financials which accompanied this, but was not a punishment for irregularities or illegalities.  Not sure why that would be brought into this.  
Just the symptoms of a newly pro sport without proper safeguards (such as a salary cap - to bring that back into the equation).

From Steve Diamond of Sale Sharks

Diamond, meanwhile, has called for severe punishments to be handed out to any clubs found guilty of abusing Premiership wage regulations, suggesting some are spending up to £2.5m over the permitted salary cap. “It looks like one or two of them have been caught with their hand in the till. The consequences have got to be harsh, or else why have it?

“I know what the salaries are for all the players and I know what the agents are touting the players at. I know what my players are being offered by other clubs. One would suggest some clubs are spending £2-£2.5m more than the cap. They’d have to be.

“We can’t just hand out a five grand fine. There’s got to be a deterrent put in place. What’s the saying? Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. That’s what they say in the streets where I live. All it takes is three or four nut jobs to blow the salaries out of the window and it is carnage. We can’t compete with that.”

maestegmafia wrote:From Steve Diamond of Sale Sharks

Diamond, meanwhile, has called for severe punishments to be handed out to any clubs found guilty of abusing Premiership wage regulations, suggesting some are spending up to £2.5m over the permitted salary cap. “It looks like one or two of them have been caught with their hand in the till. The consequences have got to be harsh, or else why have it?

“I know what the salaries are for all the players and I know what the agents are touting the players at. I know what my players are being offered by other clubs. One would suggest some clubs are spending £2-£2.5m more than the cap. They’d have to be.

“We can’t just hand out a five grand fine. There’s got to be a deterrent put in place. What’s the saying? Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. That’s what they say in the streets where I live. All it takes is three or four nut jobs to blow the salaries out of the window and it is carnage. We can’t compete with that.”

Er, I'm not sure that being a millionaire makes you a 'man of the people' in the same way that it might have done once, Steve.

I don't think you need to be a "man of the people" to be around people who say "don't do the crime if you can't do the time"

Oh, I see. Uncle Steve is referring to white collar crime now.

I'm sure it relates to his boot boy scuffing his shoes. If he can't take a thrashing he should be more careful.

A club being 2.5m over the cap seems doubtful, that would mean a lot of extra players! I know Leicester fans will say that they are a plc and players accept less to be there, but I've always thought their squad seemed to have a huge number of internationals (who therefore in theory command a higher wage) compared to others. My suspicion is that a few clubs have been over the cap in the last 5 years or so, but the increase in the cap and the increased scrutiny means that has reduced.

I wonder if Diamond has any comments on the rumours that Luke McAllister's father was employed by the club while he was playing there?!

Well I wouldn't throw that stone in your glass house. It's a known fact that Ford's dad is employed by Bath. No salary cap for coaches.

To be honest if Bath are cheating I would hope that we are punished so I have no trouble throwing stones around! Although if we were during last season as alledged, bringing in Luke Arscott seems a little unimaginative...

Well name the amount of current internationals  who haven't been with us for 6 years?

  Barbieri, Camacho, Burns, Ghiraldini, Goneva, Matera, Mulipola, Rizzo, Scully.

 How many of those where in a club in a higher pro league when we signed them?
 
 Barieri. Burns, Ghiraldini, Mulipola, Rizzo

 Bath only have 5 players in the senior squad who have been there more than 4 years.

Bathman_in_London wrote:A club being 2.5m over the cap seems doubtful, that would mean a lot of extra players! I know Leicester fans will say that they are a plc and players accept less to be there, but I've always thought their squad seemed to have a huge number of internationals (who therefore in theory command a higher wage) compared to others. My suspicion is that a few clubs have been over the cap in the last 5 years or so, but the increase in the cap and the increased scrutiny means that has reduced.

I wonder if Diamond has any comments on the rumours that Luke McAllister's father was employed by the club while he was playing there?!

Most of the players become internationals whilst at Tigers, so always start on a lower wage. Thats been the way for as long as i can remember it.

Bath have to be the front runners in this breach.

Sarries to be fair have/had a Poopie of Int's too it's not just Bath.. And yes most of them did just join for the chance to be a part of something special, IPads and Ski trips but I'm sure a few at least may have wanted paying too...