Dave Attwood v Kruis ummm!

Dave Attwood physically looks the part but a part of me thinks there is a bit of the wuss about him. Very good in the lineout but he needs much more. Invariably when he has to compete and push hard in a maul he will stand up and start reaching over the backs of players who are in a good body position. This 'standing up' effectively takes him out of the game without actually looking like he is a weak link. When he does this he is easily pushed back and really lets his team down at a time when they need their big boys to front up. Especially 5m out from his own line. There are other aspects of his game where he doesn't really graft hard enough. In fact is he really hard enough, full stop?

Kruis is another good prospect but very early days. I haven't made up my mind about him yet so, as far as I'm concerned, he can't be doing too much wrong. Should Lawes and Kruis start against Wales?

Attwood is better at the moment even if he seems he ll never get where he should. Kruis showed a touch of inexperience in the AI but potential. Personally think Kitchener is the better player right now though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Attwood is better at the moment even if he seems he ll never get where he should. Kruis showed a touch of inexperience in the AI but potential. Personally think Kitchener is the better player right now though.

Agree with all 3 points.

What really counts against Kitch is he is just a second row it seems.

Lawes/Launchbury/Parling/Kruis all started out at 6 either for clubs or England age group.

Ill hold my judgement on Kruis...not been convinced but he must have something.

Attwood...yeah as 7.5 said might not get exactly where we hope he should.

Don't worry Dom Barrow will take his spot after the WC and become the next legendary England Lock.

I am biased and age is against him, but if you want an all round lock that can do everything, you could do a lot worse than Christian day.

Good in the tight, tackles well, does the hard yards, has enough pace to make a break and the ability to pass the ball to support runners, good lineout operator.

He is a typical Saints forward, well rounded in everything skill set wise, just not outstanding in any one aspect.

I'm a fan of Day, think he is an excellent club lock

One of those who probably hasn't got that extra bit of quality to stand out at international level, but is a top level club player

BamBam wrote:I'm a fan of Day, think he is an excellent club lock

One of those who probably hasn't got that extra bit of quality to stand out at international level, but is a top level club player

The problem with that is until he is tried, you will never know if he could step it up a level. At around 31 he is probably too old for a try now, but I think he has everything that Kitchiner has and when it comes to ball in hand ability, surpasses him.

I think Christian Day is a fantastic player, but unfortunately I think he has peaked at the wrong time. If he'd have been at his current level during Steve Borthwick's reign of terror as England captain (I jest!), when the second row cupboard was bare, he'd have has a decent shot.

Attwood disappointed me in the autumn, I thought he would have really thrown his all into it. Kruis on the other hand was better than I expected, but I was a little dubious about his inclusion in the first place.

It is a bit of a poser. I'd probably go with Attwood and Lawes because I remember what happened the last time we went to Cardiff with too many lighter more athletic forwards.

englandglory4ever wrote:Dave Attwood physically looks the part but a part of me thinks there is a bit of the wuss about him. Very good in the lineout but he needs much more. Invariably when he has to compete and push hard in a maul he will stand up and start reaching over the backs of players who are in a good body position. This 'standing up' effectively takes him out of the game without actually looking like he is a weak link. When he does this he is easily pushed back and really lets his team down at a time when they need their big boys to front up. Especially 5m out from his own line.  There are other aspects of his game where he doesn't really graft hard enough. In fact is he really hard enough, full stop?

Kruis is another good prospect but very early days. I haven't made up my mind about him yet so, as far as I'm concerned, he can't be doing too much wrong. Should Lawes and Kruis start against Wales?

I've got to say Kruis looks better each time I see him. He was excellent in a poor team display for the Saxons last year. Itoje is the one to really watch out for through. That lad has some seriously huge potential.

As far as Attwood goes I can't agree with the substance of that at all. He works hard in the tight and is very physical in both the ruck, tackle and maul. He also isn't a bad carrier in the close quarters. As far as his technique in the maul goes all you're doing is highlighting exactly what he SHOULD be doing. Trying to get through the maul and latch onto the ball carrier, at 6ft 7" he's the best man for the job. For a great exponent of destroying the maul see Simon Shaw, the 'Padlock'.

Chjw131 wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Dave Attwood physically looks the part but a part of me thinks there is a bit of the wuss about him. Very good in the lineout but he needs much more. Invariably when he has to compete and push hard in a maul he will stand up and start reaching over the backs of players who are in a good body position. This 'standing up' effectively takes him out of the game without actually looking like he is a weak link. When he does this he is easily pushed back and really lets his team down at a time when they need their big boys to front up. Especially 5m out from his own line.  There are other aspects of his game where he doesn't really graft hard enough. In fact is he really hard enough, full stop?

Kruis is another good prospect but very early days. I haven't made up my mind about him yet so, as far as I'm concerned, he can't be doing too much wrong. Should Lawes and Kruis start against Wales?

I've got to say Kruis looks better each time I see him. He was excellent in a poor team display for the Saxons last year. Itoje is the one to really watch out for through. That lad has some seriously huge potential.

As far as Attwood goes I can't agree with the substance of that at all. He works hard in the tight and is very physical in both the ruck, tackle and maul. He also isn't a bad carrier in the close quarters. As far as his technique in the maul goes all you're doing is highlighting exactly what he SHOULD be doing. Trying to get through the maul and latch onto the ball carrier, at 6ft 7" he's the best man for the job. For a great exponent of destroying the maul see Simon Shaw, the 'Padlock'.

Wrapping up the ball carrier in the maul is one of Lawes strong points, so I can't criticise Attwood for doing the same thing, just wish he would use his bulk a bit more, he is supposed to be the enforcer type who can make the yards in the congested areas. I have not seen him do any more than any of the back row or Lawes. If he carries on playing like the athletic line out player, he may get replaced by one who is better in that function.

Yeah Lawes got pinged a few times in the AI's for coming right through the mauls totally legally which infuriated me! He was hugely effective in that area though in general.

I thought Attwood played well in general. No major qualms.

Kruis as I said above I need to see more of. Likewise I wont be getting too excited about Itoje just yet. Give him a few years to get established in the Sarries side.

Its like Dom Barrow...I rate him seriously highly (not just being a biased Falcon Fan) he has the lot...he's huge, decent pace, aggression, power, great lineout jumper...he is the real deal...but he is going through a seriously frustrating period of injury proneness ala Corbs and Manu.

Others...Elliott Stooke seems to have stalled abit after he blasted on to the scene.

The one that does interest me is Slater. He has the size and power that we think we need (and why we want Attwood to hit peak) but he is aggressive and mobile as well. And a captain to boot. Its such a shame he got injured when he did or he may have been in Attwoods place now as a starter.

Kitchener is a bigger version or Parling. I would have him in the squad also.

Kruis is the dilemma for me though. I haven't seen a huge amount of the buzz about him in the Sarries games ive seen or the bench appearances for England.

At least we have options....would just be nice to get the perfect combo and see them get a good run of games

Kitchener

Welly wrote:Kitchener

Bathroomer.

Cumbrian wrote:

Welly wrote:Kitchener

Bathroomer.

Lounger.

Didn't see it, but Morgan sounds like he is injured. Could this have an impact on selection right across the pack.

It's probably the one area in the pack where it doesn't, Billy wasn't on top form in the autumn but by all accounts is playing more like his usual self now, so I've got no issue with him coming in, and it shouldn't affect the rest of the pack IMO

Kruis may be missing some game time (May be)