Williams overlooked by Gats

LondonTiger wrote:Owen Williams is a promising player, but right now not ready for Wales. Only a personal view, but as an all round player he will develop more at Leicester than he would have done returning to the Scarlets. Already he has played in far more high profile matches than if he had stayed as Priestland's understudy.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Owen Williams is a promising player, but right now not ready for Wales. Only a personal view, but as an all round player he will develop more at Leicester than he would have done returning to the Scarlets. Already he has played in far more high profile matches than if he had stayed as Priestland's understudy.

But Anscombe is??  I take it these 'High Profile' games are european ones?  Priestland's understudy sound so unambitious seeing as Priestland should never be seen anywhere near a Welsh jersey again.

LondonTiger wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Owen Williams is a promising player, but right now not ready for Wales. Only a personal view, but as an all round player he will develop more at Leicester than he would have done returning to the Scarlets. Already he has played in far more high profile matches than if he had stayed as Priestland's understudy.

But Anscombe is??  I take it these 'High Profile' games are european ones?  Priestland's understudy sound so unambitious seeing as Priestland should never be seen anywhere near a Welsh jersey again.

Unable to comment on Anscombe as I have never seen him play.

Williams was Priestland's understudy at Scarlets and it is doubtful that would have changed had he stayed. Should he have committed to returning, especially once Priestland had signed for Bath. That is a matter of opinion I guess, but (and I have to be careful here else I may upset certain people yet again) playing big matches in front of 24k people is a step up from what he could otherwise expect.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I couldn't undearstand Gats reasoning for not picking Owen Williams.
He stated that it was because he wasn't picked in the game between the Tigers and the Scarlets ??
So what? He has played in 8 of the last 10 prem & European games ahead of Burns. Surely that's more relevant.

Whether he is good enough to step up is another argument but the reasoning is nonsense.

wayne wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I couldn't undearstand Gats reasoning for not picking Owen Williams.
He stated that it was because he wasn't picked in the game between the Tigers and the Scarlets ??
So what? He has played in 8 of the last 10 prem & European games ahead of Burns. Surely that's more relevant.

Whether he is good enough to step up is another argument but the reasoning is nonsense.

Trev, lets turn this around, Cockerill has selected Williams as you say 8 times out of the last 10 and then knowing he wouldn't be selecting him for the following game, (an unimportant LV match), so he decides to leave him out of the Scarlet game, all for the benefit for Wales, come on your having a laugh, I also wouldn't mind betting Cockerill knew Gatland was coming, so he thought he'd scupper his plans.

wayne wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I couldn't undearstand Gats reasoning for not picking Owen Williams.
He stated that it was because he wasn't picked in the game between the Tigers and the Scarlets ??
So what? He has played in 8 of the last 10 prem & European games ahead of Burns. Surely that's more relevant.

Whether he is good enough to step up is another argument but the reasoning is nonsense.

Trev, lets turn this around, Cockerill has selected Williams as you say 8 times out of the last 10 and then knowing he wouldn't be selecting him for the following game, (an unimportant LV match), so he decides to leave him out of the Scarlet game, all for the benefit for Wales, come on your having a laugh, I also wouldn't mind betting Cockerill knew Gatland was coming, so he thought he'd scupper his plans.

nathan wrote:

wayne wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I couldn't undearstand Gats reasoning for not picking Owen Williams.
He stated that it was because he wasn't picked in the game between the Tigers and the Scarlets ??
So what? He has played in 8 of the last 10 prem & European games ahead of Burns. Surely that's more relevant.

Whether he is good enough to step up is another argument but the reasoning is nonsense.

Trev, lets turn this around, Cockerill has selected Williams as you say 8 times out of the last 10 and then knowing he wouldn't be selecting him for the following game, (an unimportant LV match), so he decides to leave him out of the Scarlet game, all for the benefit for Wales, come on your having a laugh, I also wouldn't mind betting Cockerill knew Gatland was coming, so he thought he'd scupper his plans.

Do you really think that gatland has decided not to pick Williams purely because he didn't play against scarlets?

No9 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30909681

Right call in my view.

If "Gatland's Law" of not picking players not playing in Wales is ever going to work, then he has to ensure he himself sticks by those rules where ever possible. Therefore Williams should not expect to pull on a Welsh Jersy whilst still holding onto a Tigers one.

I'm still not 100% convinced that Anscombe is as good as the hype, but no matter where he was born, he does qualify for Wales through parentage, and that's well within then rules and so be it.

If Williams wants to compete for a Welh spot, he should return to Wales. There's a place there to compete for with the Scarlets from next season.

Also think Cuthbert is showing his hand refusing a WRU contract. Form my viewpoint, he should be dropped from the 6 Natins squad, or at least find himself warming the bench. He has made it easier to accommodate Halfpenny and Liam now. And before I get the Halpenny plays in France, he made that deal prior to the dual contracts. If offered one and he turns it down, then the same rule should apply.

Basically, until we take some pain and not select players refusing dual contracts and playing outside Wales, the players will just ignore it and still go abroad for the bucks.

It's time to make a ruling and stand by it...

How can you say drop Cuthbert just for not signing a DC, There are a number of players that have not signed DC, have you thought that the Terms and Conditions may not be favourable compared to their existing contracts such as Pension payments etc, it does not mean they are off. Using your logic Preistland should be booted out as he is committed to leaving (wishfull thinking) , Cuthbert is still in contract with the Blues for next season!

HammerofThunor wrote:It's actually changed with the new agreement. Now, once certain conditions have been met, a player outside of Wales won't be picked, unless Gatland wants to

maestegmafia wrote:
It's in Cockerills interests, no matter what he says, not to have Williams in the welsh squad.

Cockerills selection against the scarlets was very odd! He has selected Williams ahead of Burns every game then drops him for Burns on one occasion.

If Burns is called up by England and not Williams then Leicester keep their choice flyhalf and get extra cash from the rfu, for playing Burns who is an English Qualified player.

If Cockerill plays Williams who then gets in the welsh squad he loses his best flyhalf and gets no extra cash as Burns continues to play second fiddle at club level and is in the international wilderness.

I honestly don't think that Cockers is anywhere near that smart, though the people above him are.

HammerofThunor wrote:It's actually changed with the new agreement. Now, once certain conditions have been met, a player outside of Wales won't be picked, unless Gatland wants to

maestegmafia wrote:

wayne wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I couldn't undearstand Gats reasoning for not picking Owen Williams.
He stated that it was because he wasn't picked in the game between the Tigers and the Scarlets ??
So what? He has played in 8 of the last 10 prem & European games ahead of Burns. Surely that's more relevant.

Whether he is good enough to step up is another argument but the reasoning is nonsense.

Trev, lets turn this around, Cockerill has selected Williams as you say 8 times out of the last 10 and then knowing he wouldn't be selecting him for the following game, (an unimportant LV match), so he decides to leave him out of the Scarlet game, all for the benefit for Wales, come on your having a laugh, I also wouldn't mind betting Cockerill knew Gatland was coming, so he thought he'd scupper his plans.

It's in Cockerills interests, no matter what he says, not to have Williams in the welsh squad.

Cockerills selection against the scarlets was very odd! He has selected Williams ahead of Burns every game then drops him for Burns on one occasion.

If Burns is called up by England and not Williams then Leicester keep their choice flyhalf and get extra cash from the rfu, for playing Burns who is an English Qualified player.

If Cockerill plays Williams who then gets in the welsh squad he loses his best flyhalf and gets no extra cash as Burns continues to play second fiddle at club level and is in the international wilderness.

I honestly don't think that Cockers is anywhere near that smart, though the people above him are.

WRU wrote:A new Senior Player Selection Policy has also been confirmed which declares that players based outside Wales in future will not be eligible for selection subject to a number of exceptions which the National Head Coach has the right to make. This policy will become active once a minimum of six senior players prioritised by the Wales Head Coach have been signed to National Dual Contracts.

HammerofThunor wrote:Griff

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/31045.php#.VMF4SIGQGrU

Relevant bit

WRU wrote:A new Senior Player Selection Policy has also been confirmed which declares that players based outside Wales in future will not be eligible for selection subject to a number of exceptions which the National Head Coach has the right to make. This policy will become active once a minimum of six senior players prioritised by the Wales Head Coach have been signed to National Dual Contracts.

HammerofThunor wrote:It's actually changed with the new agreement. Now, once certain conditions have been met, a player outside of Wales won't be picked, unless Gatland wants to

nathan wrote:

wayne wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I couldn't undearstand Gats reasoning for not picking Owen Williams.
He stated that it was because he wasn't picked in the game between the Tigers and the Scarlets ??
So what? He has played in 8 of the last 10 prem & European games ahead of Burns. Surely that's more relevant.

Whether he is good enough to step up is another argument but the reasoning is nonsense.

Trev, lets turn this around, Cockerill has selected Williams as you say 8 times out of the last 10 and then knowing he wouldn't be selecting him for the following game, (an unimportant LV match), so he decides to leave him out of the Scarlet game, all for the benefit for Wales, come on your having a laugh, I also wouldn't mind betting Cockerill knew Gatland was coming, so he thought he'd scupper his plans.

Do you really think that gatland has decided not to pick Williams purely because he didn't play against scarlets?

lostinwales wrote:Williams on the bench again. What is that fiend Cockerill plotting now?

No9 wrote:

Sorry guys, not for you to think I threw the grenade and ran, but my web connection failed and has only just come back, so no chance to reply to an intersting debate by all...

One thing I would like to add...

"Gatland's Law"... Its a tag to what was a VERY unofficial ruling. However, as pointed out by Hammer, it has been put on a more formal footing as a result of the WRU Dual Contracts, and now the magic number has been hit, it does say consideration outside of Wales is at discretion of head Coach, infering that to be selected you should be playing in Wales.

Now there will be LOADS of exceptions, such as those in or signed contracts BEFORE this ruling. Which of course includes Owen Williams...

BUT, the point I was trying to put accross, was that the only way a player will pay any notice to this, is if it is being seen as implemented. Theres no point is stating all this, if you just ignore it and say, we'll still select "Joe Bloggs" (not to be specific) even if he has turned down a DC and gone seaking the big bucks outside of Wales. If they REALLY want to make this work, then we have to exclude the players playing outside of Wales NO MATTER who they are. The exception by the Head Coach, should only be used where there is no other option.

So, as per my opening post. I believe Owen Williams should be excluded as he doesnt play in Wales. OK, he joined Tigers before the ruling, but he wasnt in the Welsh set-up so shouldnt be an exception and should be excluded. Preistland, has shown his hand, by siging for Bath, so should be excluded. Cuthbert, has turned down a DC and as such should still be included whilst in contract with the Blues, but if and when he signs outside of Wales, he should be exluded. Those currently playing outside Wales who signed their contracts before this, ie Roberts, JD2, Halfpenny, North, should still be included whilst their current contract is running. But, when they are out of contract, if they are offered a Region or DC and turn it down for another "non Welsh" one, they should then be exluded. Players like Paul James, outside of Wales this season, but already signed to come back, should be included as if already here.

I just think, its time to stand up and be counted or stop messing arround with DC and trying to keep players in Wales. Until the stance is made, the players will continue to say one thing, but still ignore WRU and follow the big bucks....

its simple... Stand Up or Shut Up..