Cardiff Blues Season Thread 3 - Danny Wilson Appointed Head Coach

[wales606]

First topic message reminder :

Prop
Gethin Jenkins, Taufa'ao Filise, Craig Mitchell, Sam Hobbs, Scott Andrews, Thomas Davies, Dillon Lewis

Hooker
Matthew Rees, Kristian Dacey, Rhys Williams, Ethan Lewis

2nd Row
Jarrad Hoeata, James Down, Lou Reed, Chris Dicomidis, Miles Normandale

Flanker
Sam Warburton, Josh Turnbull, Macauley Cook, Ellis Jenkins, Josh Navidi, Jevon Groves, Ben Roach

Eight
Manoa Vosawai

Scrum half
Tavis Knoyle, Lloyd Williams, Lewis Jones, Tomos Williams

Fly half
Rhys Patchell, Gareth Anscombe, Gareth Davies, Jarrod Evans, Will Thomas

Centre
Cory Allen, Gavin Evans, Richard Smith, Tom Pascoe, Adam Thomas, Garyn Smith, Ray Lee-Lo

Wing
Alex Cuthbert, Harry Davies, Owen Jenkins, Chris Knight, Tom Williams, Tom James

Full back
Blaine Scully, Dan Fish, Geraint Walsh, Aled Summerhill

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Dome of blursboys could do with a bag to catch the ball, great defence again for try 5 against blues, rubbish

I saw that when I was on holiday, well worth a visit. Actually the whole of Blursboys is very picturesque.

[Cardiff Dave]

"shambles", "unacceptable", "it's difficult" - Jiffy.

[Cardiff Dave]

Hadley twists the knife....

"You can't pin all that blame on Mark," Hadley said. "This is probably the worst Blues squad I've seen since the introduction of regional rugby."

"But they've (the board) also got to take the blame for taking them away from the Arms Park to the Cardiff City Stadium, which was an absolute disaster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31565744

[wayne]

Very depressing times I would think for the Blues, contrary to popular belief I for one wish we had 4 strong Teams, each submitting aprox the same number of players to Team Wales, they've tried the Welsh coaching philosophy, Davies, Burnell and the foreign approach Hammett, I wonder what route it'll take next ?

[Cardiff Dave]

Very depressing times I would think for the Blues, contrary to popular belief I for one wish we had 4 strong Teams, each submitting aprox the same number of players to Team Wales, they've tried the Welsh coaching philosophy, Davies, Burnell and the foreign approach Hammett, I wonder what route it'll take next ?

New chairman?

[wayne]

Very depressing times I would think for the Blues, contrary to popular belief I for one wish we had 4 strong Teams, each submitting aprox the same number of players to Team Wales, they've tried the Welsh coaching philosophy, Davies, Burnell and the foreign approach Hammett, I wonder what route it'll take next ?

New chairman?

Is that a viable option ? He's pumped a lot into the Blues, would he just walk away ?

[Guest]

Who is looking for a job at the moment?

Mike Ruddock?

Nigel Davies?

Doesn't really matter who they appoint really, if what Hammett says is true about the conditioning and attitudes of the players.

[Liam]

Howley being linked to the job. Please God no. Just leave the chief and John to it for me.

[Cardiff Dave]

Very depressing times I would think for the Blues, contrary to popular belief I for one wish we had 4 strong Teams, each submitting aprox the same number of players to Team Wales, they've tried the Welsh coaching philosophy, Davies, Burnell and the foreign approach Hammett, I wonder what route it'll take next ?

New chairman?

Is that a viable option ? He's pumped a lot into the Blues, would he just walk away ?

I don't see why not and chairmen don't last forever. He threw the kitchen sink and missed. Was under the impression he would be gone by now anyway after the CCS "disaster". Time for him to hand over the reigns to somebody else I reckon. To whom i've no idea, but there must be somebody out there willing and able to turn it around.

[Cardiff Dave]

Howley being linked to the job. Please God no. Just leave the chief and John to it for me.

"Cardiff Blues: Howley would be a 'brilliant' boss - Nugget

Legendary Cardiff flanker and now just yet another BBC Wales bloke and ex-player on the telly Martyn Williams, says national attack coach Rob Howley would be a "brilliant" successor to Cardiff Blues boss Mark Hammett."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31579325

Meh!

[Cardiff Dave]

Who is looking for a job at the moment?

Mike Ruddock?

Nigel Davies?

Doesn't really matter who they appoint really, if what Hammett says is true about the conditioning and attitudes of the players.

are the problem IMHO.

"Norster told the member clubs at the extraordinary general meeting yesterday that current plans to merge them with Pontypridd was an 'absolute nonsense' and Cardiff had to secure its heritage and status."

"At Cardiff RFC we are in a very privileged position. We are slap in the middle of the city and right next door to the Millennium Stadium and, as a result, as a business we have grown."

Then they went on holiday to CCS for a bit. Ha! You couldn't make it up if you tried.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Rugby+Union%3A+Norster%3A+Don%27t+isolate+the+Blue+and+Blacks.-a098030223

[Coleman]

I'd like to see Thomas go, but we're in a lot of "debt" to his company arent we?

In regards to a coach, I honestly don't know if anyone can turn it around. All the talk out of the Blues has been of a toxic dressing room with players moaning about having to work in training. I thought the dead wood was going to be thrown out and we were going to at least get players in with a strong work ethic who would turn up on the weekend. How many more "development/chaning of the guard/building" seasons can we REALLY accept? The real stinger will be at the end of the season when they announce that they're putting the season ticket prices up.

[George Carlin]

Really was shocked by Hammett leaving, particularly as it seems that no replacement was lined up prior to the announcement.

I've never seen a departure where fans are so divided on the likely cause of it. Do Blues fans know any more about this now? I haven't been tracking Welsh press.

[Guest]

Really was shocked by Hammett leaving, particularly as it seems that no replacement was lined up prior to the announcement.

I've never seen a departure where fans are so divided on the likely cause of it. Do Blues fans know any more about this now? I haven't been tracking Welsh press.

Not yet, its still a mystery

[Coleman]

I hope i'm not being morbid but i do hope it is for personal reasons and not because of player power. The last thing we need is a player revolt because they can't stomach training. Maybe we need a fan revolt.

[Guest]

I hope i'm not being morbid but i do hope it is for personal reasons and not because of player power. The last thing we need is a player revolt because they can't stomach training. Maybe we need a fan revolt.

That bits easy, just don't attend any matches, but I hope thats not the case either, though I don't see why Hammet would make up stuff in the papers

[SecretFly]

Would see a very peculiar attitude from Professional rugby players to protest against the kind of training deemed necessary to give them more chances of feeling great about themselves at the end of the year - ie, the kind of training necessary to give them the best chance of winning things?

Just strange attitude if there is even a lick of truth in it.

[Guest]

Roberts is apparently on his way out of Racing Metro, could the Blues snap him up on a dual contract? Allen needs a better partner in the centre.

[Comfort]

Its depressing, Hammett came with a reputation for being the no-nonsense get the job done, kinda coach that we were crying out for.

He's come out and said he was surprised at the levels of fitness at the region and how Gatland has to put extra fitness training sessions in when they're with the welsh squad to get them up to fitness required for international.

We've heard for years that the players have run the show at the blues and that the training sessions have become a bit of a joke as far as professional training goes and that mistakes are laughed off...

With all that in mind and the dodgy grey explanations coming out regarding why hes left, I can only assume he wasnt backed up by his bosses when he should have been.

Its a damn shame imo and the blues keep managing to set themselves back year upon year.

[VinceWLB]

Was it Copeland who said Blues training regime was basically an easy ride compared to Munster's?

[Comfort]

Vince - yup! a few former players have come out with remarks to the training regime at the blues....

...it makes your heart yearn for Dai, all is forgiven old friend.

[Guest]

Would see a very peculiar attitude from Professional rugby players to protest against the kind of training deemed necessary to give them more chances of feeling great about themselves at the end of the year - ie, the kind of training necessary to give them the best chance of winning things?

Just strange attitude if there is even a lick of truth in it.

Yeah I dont get it either, surely a professional player would want to put the effort in, so that they can get results?

Never seen a competitive athlete not want to work hard in training so that they can win.

[ScarletSpiderman]

To be honest, Hammett came with some SH fans saying he left the 'canes before he was forced to, and that he was not as good as people were hoping.

Also there has been a heap of excuse making for him, 'he didn't get to build a team, it was Phil Davies' side' etc. Neither did the Chief and John, but they whipped the team into performing end of last season, and they probably will do the same this season too.

[George Carlin]

True Spidey but he is harder than nail pie and for a coach to resign he would have to believe that his position or the team's is irredeemably hopeless.

That does rather suggest board interference or certainly lack of support from the executive cigar room or the dressing room. Or both.

[SecretFly]

It seems to be a little............................... dare I say it???................................... a little like the Ulster stuff that went down last year.
Allegedly many things were responsible for Anscombe leaving but allegedly one of those allegations (oh I'm keeping so legally safe here ) is that allegedly it wasn't so much the harshness of the regime as the harshness of the attitude that went with it of an allegedly 'bullying' kind.

So maybe it wasn't so much the training as the attitude that was brought to training that turned Blues players?

But again, that would still lead me to ask the same questions I asked during the Ulster fallout - are players so fragile that they need kid-gloves treatment all the way through and require the constant pep-talks and pats on the back to keep them going?
I'm not saying I'd like a guy pushing my wrong buttons in training - but I'd use the anger to push my own right ones and show him up by going a step more than he's bleating about.  And I guess that's the carrot some coaches try to use - tough love.  But if the players can't understand that method, then that's when the wheels might come off.

[Cardiff Dave]

I've scoured the world of twitter and it would seem that Hammett has resigned due to personal/family reasons.

[rumpelstiltskindoh]

That sounds right, Fly.  Martyn Williams said on Scrum V that it was "the worst kept secret in Welsh rugby" that the Blues dressing room was not a happy place. But it's hard to imagine someone like Mathew Rees  - who was said to have led a player deputation - complaining about a tough training regime in itself. But I know nothing.

[Cardiff Dave]

That sounds right, Fly.  Martyn Williams said on Scrum V that it was "the worst kept secret in Welsh rugby" that the Blues dressing room was not a happy place. But it's hard to imagine someone like Mathew Rees  - who was said to have led a player deputation - complaining about a tough training regime in itself. But I know nothing.

Hasn't been a happy place for many seasons, would be my guess.

[Cardiff Dave]

To be honest, Hammett came with some SH fans saying he left the 'canes before he was forced to, and that he was not as good as people were hoping.

Also there has been a heap of excuse making for him, 'he didn't get to build a team, it was Phil Davies' side'  etc.  Neither did the Chief and John, but they whipped the team into performing end of last season, and they probably will do the same this season too.

Hard to judge though since the season was effectively over for half the teams in the Pro12.

[Cardiff Dave]

Was it Copeland who said Blues training regime was basically an easy ride compared to Munster's?

Well remembered.
Found the following on another forum.....

"the differences are positive, however- such as the devotion to a common cause. Whereas nobody was fooled by the notion of the Blues representing a "region", a whole province is behind Munster. While mistakes might have beeen laughed off in the Blues training, they're not tolerated here. "It's a weird attitude (with the Blues) he says, "they don't realise the work that they have to put in and the potential they have to go somewhere, whereas here there is so much expectation and standards are set so high"

[Notch]

Hadley twists the knife....

"You can't pin all that blame on Mark," Hadley said. "This is probably the worst Blues squad I've seen since the introduction of regional rugby."

"But they've (the board) also got to take the blame for taking them away from the Arms Park to the Cardiff City Stadium, which was an absolute disaster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31565744

I would love to have some of the players they have. Principally Navidi, Hoeata, Anscombe, Tuculet, Cuthbert and Amorosino. As much as many are new and haven't had bedded in well I reckon those six would improve the squads of any of the top 5. They would be front line players at almost any Pro12 team. Appreciate there's a good few very average players as well in that squad but they have some quality.

[Guest]

The Blues on paper can put out a very tasty team. A Lions front row (albeit ageing a bit), Warbs and Navidi in the back row, those backs you mention. They should be doing much better.

[Cardiff Dave]

Hadley twists the knife....

"You can't pin all that blame on Mark," Hadley said. "This is probably the worst Blues squad I've seen since the introduction of regional rugby."

"But they've (the board) also got to take the blame for taking them away from the Arms Park to the Cardiff City Stadium, which was an absolute disaster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31565744

I would love to have some of the players they have. Principally Navidi, Hoeata, Anscombe, Tuculet, Cuthbert and Amorosino. As much as many are new and haven't had bedded in well I reckon those six would improve the squads of any of the top 5. They would be front line players at almost any Pro12 team. Appreciate there's a good few very average players as well in that squad but they have some quality.

Yeah we've always had quality players, but we don't have enough at present. Check out the Leicester HEC semi line up...

Against Leicester HEC semi, 2009.

Cardiff Blues:
Blair, Halfpenny, Shanklin, Jamie Roberts, Tom James, Nicky Robinson, Richie Rees,
Gethin Jenkins, G. Williams, Filise, Bradley Davies, Tito, Molitika, M. Williams, Rush.
Replacements: Sweeney for J. Roberts (99), Yapp for Filise (80), Deiniol Jones for Tito (9), Andy Powell for Molitika (60). Not Used: TRT, Allinson, Gareth Thomas.
Not forgetting Jamie Robinson of course.

Then CCS happened and the rest is history.

[Cardiff Dave]

The Blues on paper can put out a very tasty team. A Lions front row (albeit ageing a bit), Warbs and Navidi in the back row, those backs you mention. They should be doing much better.

I remember watching an interview with Gethin Jenkins where he basically said he was cheesed off about players leaving Cardiff Blues. That was when we were at CCS, obviously.

[Notch]

I don't really rate that front row any more and Warburton only plays his best rugby in a Wales shirt but yeah- they have too much quality to be where they are.

[wales606]

I don't really rate that front row any more and Warburton only plays his best rugby in a Wales shirt but yeah- they have too much quality to be where they are.

Warburton plays pretty well in a Blues shirt, far better than Roberts used too when he would only show up for Wales.

[The Saint]

That sounds right, Fly.  Martyn Williams said on Scrum V that it was "the worst kept secret in Welsh rugby" that the Blues dressing room was not a happy place. But it's hard to imagine someone like Mathew Rees  - who was said to have led a player deputation - complaining about a tough training regime in itself. But I know nothing.

Hasn't been a happy place for many seasons, would be my guess.

Too much back-stabbing going on. Get rid of Rees, ban Martyn Williams from the club and beg Hammett to stay put. Either that or lose some/most of your best players, because lets face it nobody would want to be part of that sinking ship, and spend some years in the Pro12 basement.

Interesting that Blues had a good record in other competitions, albeit easy ones, just losing one game in each. The big loss to the Tigers comes as a surprise to me - Blues put out a pretty good team so that one can't be blamed on Hammett.

[bedfordwelsh]

If the players are not happy cos the training is no hard then surely these are not the type of players the Blues won't if they are not prepared to knuckle down and do some much needed hard work, get rid of them.

Heard Mike Rayers name thrown around as someone who they might want to get in, if they had got him after Young left then I think they would be in a hell of a lot better shape than are now (not difficult)

[The Saint]

Seems like an imbalance of power down there though. They bring in the best coach they could possibly get, one who seems the most suited to turn them around - a mutiny occurs. As said coach is on his way out a few Cardiff stalwarts names are banded about as replacements. Coincidence?

[SecretFly]

'Push us too hard and you're out'

Not exactly the most attractive maxim an ambitious coach looking for a new home will hear.

If that is the maxim (and it's all just rumours at this point) but Hammett will talk behind scenes if it was; and it's going to be then a hard reputation for the Blues to break out of, if true, when trying to entice good/ambitious coaches to them.

Gotta be real careful about reputations.

[Coleman]

The board needed to get behind them. I really do not want one of the boys are our next coach. We needed an outsider, we got one and the clique ran him out of time. If rumours are true that he had a large part to play in the unrest what are the chances Matthew Rhys is appointed to the coaching team as a player/coach next season?

[Cardiff Dave]

Dunno, but I doubt the LV is a priority. There we are.
9 nil up though then losing 9-43 must be a concern of sorts.

Think it was too.

[Cardiff Dave]

Hammett gone.

Shocking.

I hope that the family reasons given are the ONLY reason.

I'm not saying nowt.

[Guest]

Still no official announcement

[RDW]

https://www.606v2.com/t57868-cardiff-blues-v-edinburgh#2940144

[ScarletSpiderman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31583516

Confirmation at last I guess.

Ooops scrap that, yet another 'BBC believes it will soon be official' story tut tut tut

[George Carlin]

How do Blues fans think that this will affect the team's performance?

[Coleman]

Please look at the Treviso game for reference.

[Guest]

How do Blues fans think that this will affect the team's performance?

To be honest, I think a lot of us have written the season off, so I don't really expect much from now till the end of the season. I just hope they can produce at least a couple of good performances.

[wales606]

How do Blues fans think that this will affect the team's performance?

To be honest, I think a lot of us have written the season off, so I don't really expect much from now till the end of the season. I just hope they can produce at least a couple of good performances.

Yep.

Season was practically over by Christmas, not it is definitely over.

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