Wales v England - 6 February 2015 - Match thread

[BamBam]

First topic message reminder :


Wales v England
6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off at 20.05

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Mathieu Raynal (FFR)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

Live on BBC1

Wales

01. Gethin Jenkins
02. Richard Hibbard
03. Samson Lee
04. Alun Wyn Jones
05. Jake Ball
06. Dan Lydiate
07. Sam Warburton (c)
08. Toby Faletau

09. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Scott Baldwin
17. Paul James
18. Aaron Jarvis
19. Luke Charteris
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Mike Phillips
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Liam Williams

England

15. Mike Brown
14. Anthony Watson
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Luther Burrell
11. Jonny May
10. George Ford
09. Ben Youngs  

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. David Attwood
05. George Kruis
06. James Haskell
07. Chris Robshaw (captain)
08. Billy Vunipola

16. Tom Youngs
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Kieran Brookes
19. Tom Croft
20. Nick Easter
21. Richard Wigglesworth
22. Danny Cipriani
23. Billy Twelvetrees

[gregortree]

bit of 6N trivia:

      W   D L        PF    PA        PD  T      Pts   Champs GS TC WS
England 75 51 1 23 2061 1157 + 904 214 103 4 1 3 0
France 75 50 2 23 1899 1324 + 575 184 102 5 3 N/A 1
Ireland 75 49 2 24 1833 1393 + 440 188 100 2 1 4 0
Wales 75 40 2 33 1688 1630 + 58 153 82 4 3 3 1
Scotland 75 19 2 54 1183 1872 − 689 85 40 0 0 0 3
Italy 75 11 1 63 1098 2386 − 1288 89 23 0 0 N/A 10

Boring England eh ? PD +904. Next nearest France : + 575

[rainbow-warrior]

I would have been a lot more concerned had the Welsh team been 'refreshed' as it were. Still going to be very tight

Yeah right, stick with it lad

[BamBam]

Tuesday and no prematch vitriol in sight. And no, I will not start any, more of a peaceful voyeur.
All we had so far was the usual zzzzzz roof question zzzz. Still it is only Tuesday.
A massive match up for both sides in the opener of the 6 nations, and in RWC same group later this year.
What a scene...who wrote this script anyway ? MBE for their services to drama.
Need a spot of 606 edgy banter as an appetiser.

Don't worry bud, rainbow-warrior has made an appearance now, won't be long

[The Saint]

Are England playing mind games too by delaying their team announcement?

[BamBam]

England's team announcements are usually on a Thursday for weekend games, so might be tomorrow for this one

[lostinwales]

I would have been a lot more concerned had the Welsh team been 'refreshed' as it were. Still going to be very tight

Yeah right, stick with it lad

Another excellent and well reasoned addition to the debate. Oh how we have missed you.

[jelly]

Are England playing mind games too by delaying their team announcement?

I assume that is tongue in cheek?

Announcement is scheduled for Wednesday, no reason to change it.

[lostinwales]

Are England playing mind games too by delaying their team announcement?

I noticed the Daily Telegraph is claiming that Gatland has 'struck an early blow' by declaring his team already. The media coverage can be hillarious

[thomh]

Is this even ahead of schedule? I was under the impression that Wales generally announce their team 4 days before the game. Certainly did in this fixture last year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26437609

[gregortree]

Tuesday and no prematch vitriol in sight. And no, I will not start any, more of a peaceful voyeur.
All we had so far was the usual zzzzzz roof question zzzz. Still it is only Tuesday.
A massive match up for both sides in the opener of the 6 nations, and in RWC same group later this year.
What a scene...who wrote this script anyway ? MBE for their services to drama.
Need a spot of 606 edgy banter as an appetiser.

Don't worry bud, rainbow-warrior has made an appearance now, won't be long

Pacing himself as there are a few days left. And Saint who is is good for a laugh is warming up in the technical area.

[gregortree]

Are England playing mind games too by delaying their team announcement?

Just checking patient availability with the overstretched A&E staff.

[The Saint]

We do usually announce the team 4 days before a game (I would prefer it to be later to keep teams guessing), though it has vaired in the past anyway. Don't see any mind games here, though that doesn't stop the media (and Gareth Thomas) talking absolute rubbish and some folk on here believing it. I'm sure the players just love to read this crap in the build up to a match.

[Rugby Fan]

There's not much to say until we see the England line-up and/or hear about any late injuries from either camp.

I was trying to think which England player I'd least like to have added to our absentee list. I think maybe Vunipola at the moment.

Not sure which player Wales would miss most. I'd be happy of their half backs have a poor game, so maybe one of that pairing,

[Impossible Standards]

This is going to be tough for Wales. Even though England have injuries they have about 3 times the amount of player depth of Wales and will still put out a competitive team. I really think the kicking game will decide this one.

[BamBam]

There's not much to say until we see the England line-up and/or hear about any late injuries from either camp.

I was trying to think which England player I'd least like to have added to our absentee list. I think maybe Vunipola at the moment.

Not sure which player Wales would miss most. I'd be happy of their half backs have a poor game, so maybe one of that pairing,

Hartley, Attwood and Cole in some order for me

Hartley just because I reckon the lineout is the one area we will have some joy, even without all the front line jumpers, and even if we aren't dominant at least we will be able to secure our own ball if Hartley is throwing to his usual standard, can't say the same for Youngs

Attwood as we need a lock with some sort of international experience, I would not be looking forward to a Kruis/Kitchener pairing despite their promise

Cole for similar reasons, Brookes looked good off the bench in the autumn, and Thomas is great in the loose, but for 50/60 odd mins against an experienced loosehead like Jenkins I'd be worried

I'm one of those who thinks Easter would still do a good job so not as worried about Billy V

[beshocked]

I think the most worrying absentee would be Hartley - it would mean we would have to heavily rely on T.Youngs' flaky throwing.

Plus an injury would also leave us looking very weak at hooker with Webber (according to posters on here) having a shocker, plus Jamie George being left out in the cold.

Hartley in particular needs to keep his cool vs Wales, he's got a poor disciplinary record. I expect the Welsh will look to wind him up.

[Impossible Standards]

I expect the Welsh will look to wind him up.

I expect every team will try this. They guy needs to keep his head as a yellow card could be costly on friday.

[TightHEAD]

England are going to get one hell of a beating on Friday, so disappointing that we have so many injuries once again before the 6 nations, simple fact is our players are playing too many high intensity games and its taking its toll, it's not like the Pro12 where by a few guys can hide behind a poor performing teams for a couple of games and still get picked for International honours that just doesn't happen in the Aviva Prem.

[LondonTiger]

Telegraph predict the following team:

Mike Brown; Jonny May, Jonathan Joseph, Luther Burrell, Anthony Watson; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Dave Attwood, George Kruis, James Haskell, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola.


All press outlets seem to agree that Cips and Easter will be on the bench.

[nlpnlp]

"I just hope the ref looks at Dylan Hartley very close at scrum time, he likes to pop up all the time and that should be a penalty, but he always gets away with it."

If Dylan Hartley does pop up in the scrum, at least it means Gethin Jenkins hasn't collapsed it already.  I hope the ref is strong on the scrum full stop so we can see a game of rugby rather than a mess and random penalties being awarded to whichever side he favours.

Without a Farrell or Wilkinson at 10 kicking the points, I am struggling to see how England are going win this - I don't see us having the edge in any particular aspect of the game and Halfpenny isn't shabby with the boot.  I have the feeling it could be a long evening for us.

[Impossible Standards]

If Dylan Hartley does pop up in the scrum, at least it means Gethin Jenkins hasn't collapsed it already. I hope the ref is strong on the scrum full stop so we can see a game of rugby rather than a mess and random penalties being awarded to whichever side he favours.

I completely agree!

[thomh]

Telegraph predict the following team:

Mike Brown; Jonny May, Jonathan Joseph, Luther Burrell, Anthony Watson; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Dave Attwood, George Kruis, James Haskell, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola.


All press outlets seem to agree that Cips and Easter will be on the bench.

Wonder if that means we're planning to play a more expansive game than we've let on. Wales' fitness is of course very good but they're big guys. Cipriani ahead of Myler, given Lancaster's previous preference for Myler, looks like they're planning to try to knacker Wales out and exploit it in the last 20.

Also, could be that Cipriani will also be seen as back three cover, with 36 on the bench instead of Nowell. Neither Cipriani nor Ford cover centre.

[bluestonevedder]

If Easter is covering both backrow and lock, are we having an extra back on the bench? 

I was quite looking forward to seeing what Kitchener could do from the bench, but the articles I've seen seem to assume Easter is the second row cover.

[LondonTiger]

Pundits stating that Cipriani can cover FB and Joseph the wing

[Cumbrian]

I reckon that is a good team! Powerful forwards and exciting/ dynamic backs. It just the cohesion and the game plan that is the worry. I've read that the plan is to kick the leather off the ball. Given the inexperience/ lack of cohesion of the team, it isn't necessarily a bad plan, need to make sure that the game is played in the right areas though. Ford certainly has the precision to get it right.

[thomh]

Pundits stating that Cipriani can cover FB and Joseph the wing

Any word on whether it's 36 or Slade covering centre? Presume 36.

[SecretFly]

Has the makings of a scorcher................... and that's only the feverish crowd I'm talking about.

Has the makings of a scorcher - two sides heavy at it from the beginning to the end
Has the makings of a massive one-sider - one side getting pasted and imploding all the way down to the end whistle.

And therefore it also obviously has the makings of a damp, dull squib...because promise always likes to play little tricks sometimes by doing something completely different to the expected.

I'd like a scorcher for entertainment - but would fear it for our prospects of the competition.
I think it might be more a one-sider in the end.

[rainbow-warrior]

I would have been a lot more concerned had the Welsh team been 'refreshed' as it were. Still going to be very tight

Yeah right, stick with it lad

Another excellent and well reasoned addition to the debate. Oh how we have missed you.

Never been away, I notice you posts have just started again too, the usual drivel mind. At least bambam ( a stone age child) is with you. Keep on getting the excuses in early it does not make you look stupid at all.

Bye bye no more for you. not worth the effort.

[nathan]

I reckon that is a good team!  Powerful forwards and exciting/ dynamic backs.  It just the cohesion and the game plan that is the worry.  I've read that the plan is to kick the leather off the ball.  Given the inexperience/ lack of cohesion of the team, it isn't necessarily a bad plan, need to make sure that the game is played in the right areas though.  Ford certainly has the precision to get it right.

Half backs shouldn't be too bad as they have played alongside each other for 2-3 years

[gregortree]

oh oh, they're off !

[nathan]

I would have been a lot more concerned had the Welsh team been 'refreshed' as it were. Still going to be very tight

Yeah right, stick with it lad

Another excellent and well reasoned addition to the debate. Oh how we have missed you.

Never been away, I notice you posts have just started again too, the usual drivel mind.  At least bambam ( a stone age child) is with you.   Keep on getting the excuses in early it does not make you look stupid at all.

Bye bye no more for you.  not worth the effort.

I'd be more worried if Wales lose this. They have a near first choice team lining up against an england team with what, 11 injuries and a fair few of those first choice.

[TightHEAD]

The Best thing England could do is call the game off and rearrange it, like they do in the Pro12 from time to time.

Just claim it would be unsafe to play due to the injuries and depth that we have.

[SecretFly]

The Best thing England could do is call the game off and rearrange it, like they do in the Pro12 from time to time.

Just claim it would be unsafe to play due to the injuries and depth that we have.

Well it's been done before. In 2001 they blamed bad feet and mouths on cattle and ended up playing three 6N games in September and October. Then in 2012 they blamed a frozen pitch.

[nathan]

The Best thing England could do is call the game off and rearrange it, like they do in the Pro12 from time to time.

Just claim it would be unsafe to play due to the injuries and depth that we have.

Well it's been done before.  In 2001 they blamed bad feet and mouths on cattle and ended up playing three 6N games in September and October.  Then in 2012 they blamed a frozen pitch.

We've also gone ahead and played despite receiving death threats.

to quote John Pullins after the loss. "We may not be any good but at least we turn up"

[TJ]

If Dylan Hartley does pop up in the scrum, at least it means Gethin Jenkins hasn't collapsed it already. I hope the ref is strong on the scrum full stop so we can see a game of rugby rather than a mess and random penalties being awarded to whichever side he favours.

I completely agree!

Yup - another vote for stopping buggering about in the scrums and play the game

As a neutral I really hope for a good game. 1) not playing for pens in the scrums, 2) not just kicking the ball long all the time, 3) let 1/2p counter attack and give North a few passes, 4) Care and Ford to actually play some quick ball and get those backs moving to their centres ( and pick the skillful guys) - and for wales not just to Roberts who crashes into whoever is playing opposite him. Lets see some variation in tactics. chips, miss moves - you know the stuff that leads to an exciting game - and a decent contest at the breakdown.

Please not a borefest of penalties and ponderous forwards running 2 m and falling over

[nathan]

If Dylan Hartley does pop up in the scrum, at least it means Gethin Jenkins hasn't collapsed it already.  I hope the ref is strong on the scrum full stop so we can see a game of rugby rather than a mess and random penalties being awarded to whichever side he favours.

I completely agree!

Yup - another vote for stopping buggering about in the scrums and play the game

As  a neutral I really hope for a good game.  1) not playing for pens in the scrums, 2) not just kicking the ball long all the time, 3) let 1/2p counter attack and give North a few passes, 4) Care and Ford to actually play some quick ball and get those backs moving to their centres ( and pick the skillful guys) - and for wales not just to Roberts who crashes into whoever is playing opposite him.  Lets see some variation in tactics.  chips, miss moves - you know the stuff that leads to an exciting game - and a decent contest at the breakdown.

Please not a borefest of penalties and ponderous forwards running 2 m and falling over

it will liekly be youngs alongside ford

[BamBam]

I would have been a lot more concerned had the Welsh team been 'refreshed' as it were. Still going to be very tight

Yeah right, stick with it lad

Another excellent and well reasoned addition to the debate. Oh how we have missed you.

Never been away, I notice you posts have just started again too, the usual drivel mind.  At least bambam ( a stone age child) is with you.   Keep on getting the excuses in early it does not make you look stupid at all.

Bye bye no more for you.  not worth the effort.

[TJ]

If Dylan Hartley does pop up in the scrum, at least it means Gethin Jenkins hasn't collapsed it already.  I hope the ref is strong on the scrum full stop so we can see a game of rugby rather than a mess and random penalties being awarded to whichever side he favours.

I completely agree!

Yup - another vote for stopping buggering about in the scrums and play the game

As  a neutral I really hope for a good game.  1) not playing for pens in the scrums, 2) not just kicking the ball long all the time, 3) let 1/2p counter attack and give North a few passes, 4) Care and Ford to actually play some quick ball and get those backs moving to their centres ( and pick the skillful guys) - and for wales not just to Roberts who crashes into whoever is playing opposite him.  Lets see some variation in tactics.  chips, miss moves - you know the stuff that leads to an exciting game - and a decent contest at the breakdown.

Please not a borefest of penalties and ponderous forwards running 2 m and falling over

it will liekly be youngs alongside ford

Don't care who it is - don't stand behind the frikkin ruck wondering what to do and pointing and shouting and asking for pens. clear 'em out and get the ball moving!

[nathan]

If Dylan Hartley does pop up in the scrum, at least it means Gethin Jenkins hasn't collapsed it already.  I hope the ref is strong on the scrum full stop so we can see a game of rugby rather than a mess and random penalties being awarded to whichever side he favours.

I completely agree!

Yup - another vote for stopping buggering about in the scrums and play the game

As  a neutral I really hope for a good game.  1) not playing for pens in the scrums, 2) not just kicking the ball long all the time, 3) let 1/2p counter attack and give North a few passes, 4) Care and Ford to actually play some quick ball and get those backs moving to their centres ( and pick the skillful guys) - and for wales not just to Roberts who crashes into whoever is playing opposite him.  Lets see some variation in tactics.  chips, miss moves - you know the stuff that leads to an exciting game - and a decent contest at the breakdown.

Please not a borefest of penalties and ponderous forwards running 2 m and falling over

it will liekly be youngs alongside ford

Don't care who it is - don't stand behind the frikkin ruck wondering what to do and pointing and shouting and asking for pens.  clear 'em out and get the ball moving!

There are a couple of things that are needed for quick ball; forwards to clear out and present the ball nicely, ref to ping the opposition for laying on the wrong side

[TJ]

Yup - but even then some SHs still stand and shout and wave their arms around ratehr than passing even witht he ball there.

[stub]

Telegraph predict the following team:

Mike Brown; Jonny May, Jonathan Joseph, Luther Burrell, Anthony Watson; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Dave Attwood, George Kruis, James Haskell, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola.


All press outlets seem to agree that Cips and Easter will be on the bench.

That doesn't look too bad to me...

[TJ]

Like the look of those backs. Joesph has impressed me.

[Duty281]

Telegraph predict the following team:

Mike Brown; Jonny May, Jonathan Joseph, Luther Burrell, Anthony Watson; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Dave Attwood, George Kruis, James Haskell, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola.


All press outlets seem to agree that Cips and Easter will be on the bench.

That's alright then! Predicted to be dry in Cardiff on Friday, so maybe English expansion and attack, backed up by the line-out, can carry the day.

[GunsGerms]

I have a feeling England will win. both teams are quite predictable at the moment however, England's game plan seems to be working a slightly better at the moment.

With a bit of luck both teams will have a rip at eachother and we will get a belter. Cant wait till Friday.

[Gwlad]

Tuesday and no prematch vitriol in sight. And no, I will not start any, more of a peaceful voyeur.
All we had so far was the usual zzzzzz roof question zzzz. Still it is only Tuesday.
A massive match up for both sides in the opener of the 6 nations, and in RWC same group later this year.
What a scene...who wrote this script anyway ? MBE for their services to drama.
Need a spot of 606 edgy banter as an appetiser.

I think all the English fans are injured as well.

[beshocked]

Gunsgerms really? Both teams are predictable? We haven't even had a game yet!

England's gameplan working better at the moment?????


The England team is yet again having a different look to both the AIs and last year's 6 nations.

Ford is very different to Farrell, if Joseph starts he'll be completely different to Burrell.

The only area of familiarity I expect will be the frontrow.

England have that unknown quantity yet again. The backrow and 2nd row balance will be different as well.

I would agree that the Welsh side on paper looks predictable but who knows - perhaps Wales will mix things up.

[LondonTiger]

England squad (25)
Forwards (14)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (11)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


So two will not make the Matchday 23. One will be a TH prop and the other probably 36 or Nowell. Means Croft in the squad. Will make a lot of people miserable. Who covers second row?

[Chjw131]

25 man squad just announced:

Forwards (14)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (11)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

From that i'd guess Thomas is travelling as a back-up front row and Twelvetrees as a back-up centre. Thus the team should look like this:

1. J Marler
2. D Hartley
3. D Cole
4. D Attwood
5. G Kruis
6. J Haskell
7. C Robshaw
8. B Vunipola
9. B Youngs
10. G Ford
11. J May
12. L Burrell
13. J Joseph
14. A Watson
15. M Brown

16. T Youngs 17. M Vunipola 18. K Brookes 19. N Easter 20. T Croft 21. R Wigglesworth 22. D Cipriani 23. J Nowell

I actually like the team, despite not having a proper SR I think it looks good and the bench is a powerful one again with the whole front row all strong carriers and Easter/Croft providing a different dimension. Nice to see DC get the spot ahead of Myler and Nowell back into the fold covering across the back 3. Given the injuries I think it's a good team. No Corbisiero though!

[BamBam]

Beat me to it

Based on the rumoured starting team, this is the 23 I reckon he's gone for

Marler, Hartley, Cole, Attwood, Kruis, Haskell, Robshaw, B Vunipola, Youngs, Ford, May, Burrell, Joseph, Watson, Brown

Bench - Youngs, Vunipola, Brookes, Easter, Croft, Wigglesworth, Cipriani, Nowell

So the 2 left out for me would be Twelvetrees and Henry Thomas

Easter as lock cover (unfair on him if he has to come on early at the wrong position due to injury)

[Tiger/Chief]

Kitchener can feel aggrieved to miss out! Guess it came down to Easters versatility! I won't be surprised if Nowell has leapfrogged Watson

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