Wake up WRU

"The Magners League has now become a victim of the Munster- Leinster success similar to the Scottish Premiership League between Rangers and Celtic."

The Irish Times 28/5/11

This is not an article about whether this is an accurate statement, grammatically or otherwise. It is a statement made in a serious Irish paper. These two teams have played 44 games and have lost 9 between them 2 of those losses came in the matches where they played each other! The figures speak for themselves, for this season anyway.

I'd rather hear what you think the WRU should do about it.

I think that the running of the Welsh teams- I mean off the pitch- is so much worse than the Irish sides for a start. Poor support and poor income generation are part of that, but I wouldn't have any confidence in the people running the Cardiff Blues to spend the money they do get well. Feels like the Scarlets and the Blues have handled their moves to new stadia very poorly, just not getting the support to fill the place even for Heineken Cup games.

I also feel almost all teams have handled the move to regional rugby poorly and that's impacted on crowds, support and therefore the amount of money there is to spend in Welsh Rugby.

I also voted for the players, on the basis I feel the bottom line is the players in Wales just aren't as good right now as the top players in Ireland. Also many of the quality players Wales do have have either been injured this year- Williams, A. Jones- or very much out of form and not performing as well as they can. The most impressive Welsh players in the league this year for me have all been younger players. Maybe in two or three years the regions will be stronger again.

I also don't believe Dai Young or the Os coaching team have managed to come up with a coherent gameplan that suits the players they have. It was a little bit embarrassing for the league the Ospreys made it to the Top Four, such was their totally underwhelming season. They deserved it, but it gives the lie to the quality of the league.

It will be a long while before the dominance of Leinster-Munster is usurped and I think the comparison is fair one. Of the sides below them, I feel Scarlets and Ulster are on the way up and Blues and Ospreys on the way down. Could be a barren few years for Welsh Rugby but then I predict they'll come back stronger.

So to clarify, the five things I voted for were; the WRU, the coaches, the players, poor support and poor income generation. I'd vote for the people at boardroom level in the Regions as well if I could.

I tried to edit notch for you but couldn't edit the poll options.

what do you want edited and I can do it for you.

All of the above?

Put on 'Regional Boards' and 'other (please expand below)'
Please. Cheers Hobo!

606, we know that, but in order to prioritise come the revolution we need to know what is most to blame, see?

I do think that the regions in general ever since they have come in have been a bit of a mess.....

Hobo - can we cast multiple votes? I voted Regional coaches but I'd also say other factors are strong also.

Here's my list:

1. WRU management team look like a good bunch for getting money in. In fact I commend the way they've been paying off the Millennium Stadium debt. However they don't look like they've got a grip on rugby in Wales. Talking to a lot of people who help out at Llanelli Wanderers, Tumble, Cefneithin etc. they complain that there isn't enough money to spend on facilities and basic stuff. The regions are too politically strong within the structure and the professional end of the game is sucking up the lions share of the money. This isn't good in the long run. All the community clubs need to feel that they're a part of their regions through representation on the regions boards. Also the WRU need to wean the regions off a portion of their block grant and spend the money on the small clubs. I know there is some money around but I don't think it's enough. These village clubs are the lifeblood of welsh rugby and getting this bit right is absolutely essential.

2. Schoolboy Rugby. It worries me that headmasters are reluctant to promote the game because they're scared of litigation. Not all, but a growing number. We have to encourage links between local clubs, the regions and the schools. It's already there to some extent - I really want to see these opportunities maximized. It's all about participation at this level.

3. Developing coaches. How many up and coming quality coaches are there at regional level? Do any of our regional coaches look like they could step up and make it at international level? We have problems people. This is the other are where I'd like to see the WRU investing. There are accredited coaching schemes around. I'd like to see them go one step further. Mentoring and Placements. Put a fund in place for at least five coaches every year to qualify as coaches, work with the regions and club sides at all levels and send them out to the SANZAR countries on placements with club sides/S15 teams out there for a few months. We desperately need a coherent coach development strategy and we need to tap into talented coaches to develop a national rugby skills program ala NZ so that every boy that goes on to play senior rugby is well versed in all the relevant skills.

4. The regions have to stop being so precious. They must open themselves up to members from the clubs under their regions. They have to be totally inclusive, get everyone on board and give them all some say in how the region operates and in its planning. This will strengthen the regions by tapping into local talent and knowhow, build partnerships and raise support and goodfeeling within the region. It's a brave step to let go of the reins but it's what they have to do.

Added the options and you should be able to multi vote anyway.

If you havent already, cancel your vote and do again!

Thanks Hobo, just done it.

Hobo.....so have I.

Even though the regions are a bit of a mess, the best rugby team I have ever played against was Bridgend Athletic. Since then I have played county and regional rugby and there has still not been a better side. I played them because I was on tour with my old club to south wales, carmathen, to be precise. We had gone unbeaten all year back in norfolk putting 50+ points past every side we had played. We turned up quite arrogant, and ended getting beaten off the park (I think they got 80 points). It later turned out ten of their players were in the ospreys academy and 6 more were going for a trial on the wednesday. I am now 16 and so most of those boys be and if they have got the right training and coaching the ospreys sdhould have an incredible academy fairly soon.

My point is maybe the regions just needed a bit more time to bed and get the necessary systems in place that top european teams have. I think that over the coming years the welsh regions may improve considerably in the next feww years.

Mr S that's precisely the point, here in Wales we are too impatient for success and look on at the Irish with longing while forgetting that they have been around forever.
Like the Italians and the Scots we are all new to this superteam thing it will take time ( I don't have too much) and we should be a little more patient.

It's the players fault, all the coaches can do is set a game plan.
Tt's the players that implement it and it's them who are falling shrt of expectations.

I thought the WRU has generated £58.5million net profits for the tax year ending in April 2010. I don't know the exact figures but for a sporting organisation which represents no more than 100,000 players and 4 senior representative regions the notion that not enough money isn't coming through can't be correct.

The main increase of profits were due to extra internationals and increases in television revenue.

The regional set-up clearly isn't working, and there is a significant lack of depth in Welsh rugby at the moment. For example, how many test standard props are there at the moment if Adam Jones and Gethin Jenkins get injured? The cupboard starts looking thin.

Furthermore, the Welsh Premiership needs a radical shake-up because it isn't proving to be the ideal breeding ground for players looking to make the jump upto future honours (whether that be regional, international or both).

I would make it compulsory that for the regions there is an a 10% cap on foreigners in squads and allow for young Welsh players to be focused in a full time environment and play regular Rugby. And if they (the regions) produce their own players they are void in being counted for the wage bill which will further encourage young players to be developed.

And the WRU, in my opinion, should trim the Premiership down to maybe 8 or 10 truly competitive sides and place more emphasis on the B&I Cup which has proven useful to other sides like my local team, the Cornish Pirates.

Any thoughts?

Why do you think regional rugby it isn't working? Since regional rugby we've won 2 grand slams, do you really think that we would of won those grand slams with Cardiff and Llanelli sticking 90 points every week on teams like Abertillery, Aberavon, Cross Keys and Pontypool?

Nothing is wrong with Welsh rugby, the fact is Ireland are currently having their one (and only) golden period which is stopping us being successful, yet despite that we have still won the same amount of grand slams in 6 years as Ireland have in the last 111!

The bottom line is International success... Ireland have more players, more clubs, a better economy a more organised playing system, yet we still beat them this year. We could of won a Triple crown in 2009 for the sake of half a metre on Stephen Jones's last minute kick and denied Ireland a grand slam but it wasn't to be.

People forget the facts so easily...

I don't think Ireland have a better economy than Britain, somehow...

SB wrote:I don't think Ireland have a better economy than Britain, somehow...

Wales is one of the most poor countries in Europe.
The comparative wages in Wales is a lot less than the exact same job over the Severn bridge.

AlynDavies wrote:

SB wrote:I don't think Ireland have a better economy than Britain, somehow...

Wales is one of the most poor countries in Europe.
The comparative wages in Wales is a lot less than the exact same job over the Severn bridge.

OK but what about accross St George's Channel?

Glas a du wrote:OK but what about accrues St George's Channel?

England is a much richer country, who subsidises Wales to the tune of billions of pounds a year, the cost of keeping Merthyr Tydfil on Incapacity benefit alone must be tens of millions

Whilst all is not as it could be,we must not lose sight,as previously posted, that Ireland had a head start on the Welsh regions.
Slowly but surely Wales will gain parity and more than likely gain dominance if history is anything to go by.
For now we applaud the Irish and patiently await our turn.

AlynDavies wrote:

Glas a du wrote:OK but what about accrues St George's Channel?

England is a much richer country, who subsidises Wales to the tune of billions of pounds a year, the cost of keeping Merthyr Tydfil on Incapacity benefit alone must be tens of millions

The typo may not have helped, but the St George's channel is commonly known as the Irish sea.

Glas a du wrote:The typo may not have helped, but the St George's channel is commonly known as the Irish sea.

the Irish economy certainly isnt affecting their rugby, look at their attendances, and look at the players their provinces are trying to lure to Ireland! there isnt a day goes by that they arent linked to one All black or another...

It's true that Leinster in particular could become one of the biggest Rugby regions/franchises in Europe because they are the only professional winter sports outfit in the Dublin region (which astounded me) and, if I read it correctly in Rugby World, don't the Irish government grant tax relief schemes to professional sportsmen?

Yes, on retirement.

I'm amazed nobody has voted for it being a blip. It seems they are everywhere in politics, but everything in rugby happens for a reason.

I'll probably get shot by fellow Welshmen - but for me there are three reasons why regional rugby is taking so long to become competitive.
1. Second rate coaches. Yes the players play the game but it's ridiculous to think that top coaches don't deliver top performances. Just what has anyone at the Ospreys got to do to get sacked! All those resources and they should be consistently amongst Europeans best. The Blues allowed Young to serve a 7 year apprenticeship - total lack of amibition.
2. The economy - lack of money - awful attendance stats. Total reliance on rich benefactors.
3. The closed, parochial "we know best" nature of Welsh rugby. We think we are one game away from being great when in reality everyone else has been getting better.

Rant over - I'm still an optimist, still a Dragons season ticket holder and I'll still suppport Wales until I'm dead.

SB,
Leinster is not the only professional team in Dublin. Soccer has been professional in Dublin for a very long time. The their not famous but they have faithful followings.

As for the Munster/Leinster dominance of the ML i'm hopeful that once the SRU pays off its debt for Murrayfiels, and the WRU with their profits now, that these unions can invest in their clubs/buy them and run them.

Scottish rugby has had great success increasing its participation numbers in schools so once this generation gets older hopefully the clubs there will have the budgets to keep the best of them there.

offload wrote:I'll probably get shot by fellow Welshmen - but for me there are three reasons why regional rugby is taking so long to become competitive.
1. Second rate coaches. Yes the players play the game but it's ridiculous to think that top coaches don't deliver top performances. Just what has anyone at the Ospreys got to do to get sacked! All those resources and they should be consistently amongst Europeans best. The Blues allowed Young to serve a 7 year apprenticeship - total lack of amibition.
2. The economy - lack of money - awful attendance stats. Total reliance on rich benefactors.
3. The closed, parochial "we know best" nature of Welsh rugby. We think we are one game away from being great when in reality everyone else has been getting better.

Rant over - I'm still an optimist, still a Dragons season ticket holder and I'll still suppport Wales until I'm dead.

A third of the population has been ignored for over a 100 years