Bulls v Sharks ... full stadium. Wake up NZ

Half time, 16 -13 to the Sharks in what I believe is the best S15 game this season. Full stadium and a full out game.

This is not being disrespectful because I live here, but why oh why are crowds so dire and the fans so dull in NZ? Hurricanes v Crusaders and the cake tin 1/4 full if we were lucky. Eden park is the same as is Hamilton. Looking at Aussie and SA the attendances as so much bigger.

I prefer seeing the NZ S15 playing in places like Timaru and Nelson...Whanagrei and Tauranga, New Plymouth and Napier, the fans come out for the guys and there is an atmosphere. NZ is only 4 million and if we are going to have apathy in the big venues take it to people who will appreciate the game.

It's an amazing game, wish the Ospreys would play like that. Plumtree back to Swansea please and quickly too!!!!!

yes tahs are in so loser of this, likely the defending champs with that try by mvobo go out at 7th.

hmmmm...bulls try. last 3 minutes for the bulls to come back. Wouldnt surprise me at all with Steyen droppie to draw the game and go through?

Well an excellent game of rugby, got to love those Sharks!!!! Never took a step backwards, best Super 15s game I recon so far this season

Phew some game.

Great game, lost my bet though LOL!!

Now I can watch the Baby Blacks play live without messing with the remote!!

Amazing so how much depends on these last games afer such a long season.
If Stormers manage to give the next match to the Cheetahs NZ teams finish 2 and 3. Is it now the Sharks Crusaders in NZ next week?

Taylorman, it depends (I just posted this under my Review topic)
The top 7 is now:
1. Reds Australian Conference Winner 66 (played 16)
2. Crusaders New Zealand Conference Winner 61 (played 16)
3. Blues Wildcard 60 (played 16)
4. Stormers South African Conference Winner 58 (played 15)
5. Waratahs Wildcard 57 (played 16)
6. Sharks Wildcard 57 (played 16)
7. Bulls 54 (played 16)

So we're waiting on the Stormers result.
If the Stormers win the playoffs are:
Crusaders vs Sharks in Nelson
Blues vs Waratahs in Auckland, with semi-finals in Brisbane and Cape Town the following week.

If they draw or lose but get 2 bonus points (Stormers have 1 more win than the Blues, 30 worse points diff than Crusaders) then the playoffs are:
Stormers vs Sharks in Cape Town
Blues vs Waratahs in Auckland, with semi-finals in Brisbane and Nelson the following week.

If the Stormers lose and get 1 or 0 BP then the playoffs are:
Blues vs Sharks in Auckland
Stormers vs Waratahs in Cape Town, with semi-finals in Brisbane and Nelson the following week.

Just to go back to the Bulls Vs Sharks game - this is why I enjoy watching the SA S15 games. Aus & NZ games have the attacking skill and flair but to me often lack a little in intensity, where as the HC has amazing intensity but not always the attacking flair but SA seems to be somewhere in the middle of the two and that's why I really enjoy watching the games involving the Stormers, Sharks & Bulls so much. I even enjoy most of the commentators as well.

Just to add, I know that the above isn't always the case but it's just my view as an avid rugby watcher.

I think you are right to be honest. The intensity of the games and the capacity crowds that are animated througout the game make them special. I have never witnessed anything like this in NZ yet, which saddens me.

I confess to not knowing too much about rugby in NZ (apart from the obvious) but are the grounds quarter to half full because of the popularity of the All Blacks? Are stadium's built knowing that 90,000 capacities can be almost guaranteed and then when the franchises use them the fans end up flat. Does the lower population of NZ have a impact (considering there are the same amount of teams). From personnel experience I would much sooner watch a sell out crowd at Franklin Gardens of 13,000 than seeing 20,000 in a half empty stadium and I'm sure the atmosphere must have an impact on the players to some extent.

I know that the other thing in SA is the very reasonable ticket prices. What are the ticket prices like over there?

I think NZ's small population has a lot to do with it. Also, whilst there are rivalries say between Auckland/Waikato - Canterbury/Otago-Southland, it is just too much bother to travel across the Cook Strait.

Australian rugby lacks a serious 'culture'. It is a poor 4th behind Australian Football, Rugby League and Football. You're lucky to get 1,000 people to local suburban matches in Sydney, probably less in Brisbane and Canberra. Beyond those major centres rugby has a tiny following.

There is no Australian equivalent of the Currie Cup or NPC either. That's why to get around 25,000 for last night's Tahs-Brumbies is about the limit; whilst the near 50,000 for the Reds-Crusaders match a few weeks back only occurs when the Reds are top of the log.

Internationals are a different story. 'Fans' will come out of the woodwork to watch the top 5-6 nations, thereafter it drops off. The only exception would be during the RWC where stadia were near capacity for non-Australian matches when they were well marketed and special ticket deals were offered.

Anyone know how well SA did in the recession? Australia handled it incredibly well and that was one of the reasons I spent a year in Queensland recently. Could be to do with that?

Am envious of the atmosphere generated in SA. Would be great to have that here. It's not like our rugby is inferior and unattractive to watch. One of my must-dos is to see an ABs Boks test at Ellis Park. Would be AWESOME.

Linebreaker wrote:I think NZ's small population has a lot to do with it. Also, whilst there are rivalries say between Auckland/Waikato - Canterbury/Otago-Southland, it is just too much bother to travel across the Cook Strait.

Australian rugby lacks a serious 'culture'. It is a poor 4th behind Australian Football, Rugby League and Football. You're lucky to get 1,000 people to local suburban matches in Sydney, probably less in Brisbane and Canberra. Beyond those major centres rugby has a tiny following.

There is no Australian equivalent of the Currie Cup or NPC either. That's why to get around 25,000 for last night's Tahs-Brumbies is about the limit; whilst the near 50,000 for the Reds-Crusaders match a few weeks back only occurs when the Reds are top of the log.

Internationals are a differnt story. 'Fans' will come out of the woodwork to watch the top 5-6 nations, thereafter it drops off. The only exception would be during the RWC where stadia were near capacity for non-Australian matches when they were well marketed and special ticket deals were offered.

I'd forgotten about Aus not having a domestic cup competition, you would think something like this would help increase the intensity somewhat but as you say it's a poor 4th in popularity and although there are more people in Aus than NZ, the sheer size means that travelling distances are always going to be an issue for atmosphere and rivalries. I guess this is why your board CEO was always so keen to bring in the faster free kick type rule interpretations a couple of years ago, to try and tap into the Rugby League support somewhat. One thing that does surprise me a little though. Although 4th in popularity there always seems to be plenty of financial backing to the teams. I know players get poached to the NH sometimes but the best internationals tend to stay until later in their careers and Rugby League doesn't seem to poach top players.

Bulls v Sharks ... full stadium. 50,000 people. I know your point about NZ, but the lesson applies to all of us. They play - and fill - big stadia. In the Home Nations, France and Italy, most stadia are small with some mid-size ones thrown in the mix. And many/most don't fill up, except on rare occasions.

Now I know this was a big match, almost a playoff game, but look at those people. We all need this.

Sharks have the worst journey. After fending off a tough Bulls challenge they have to now come to NZ to win a match no SA team has since the Super series started in 96- a playoff match.

Then they either go to SA for stormers or the Reds, then the final somewhere else being bottom qualifier.

Blues and saders home games, both coming off good wins, should win. Tahs have heavy injuries and HATE Eden park so all going well we should be ok...

all things going well that is...

30 minutes into the Canes game there were cues in the pouring rain still trying to buy tickets.
I know cause I was in the fxxxxxxx cue after my fxxxxxx brother gave my wife's ticket to his friend and I gave her my season ticket.
I ended up not wanting to pay for a ticket to see half a match and watched it at the Waterloo pub soaking wet.

So you in Wellington Nganboy? I'm in the Hutt.

disneychilly wrote:Anyone know how well SA did in the recession? Australia handled it incredibly well and that was one of the reasons I spent a year in Queensland recently. Could be to do with that?

Am envious of the atmosphere generated in SA. Would be great to have that here. It's not like our rugby is inferior and unattractive to watch. One of my must-dos is to see an ABs Boks test at Ellis Park. Would be AWESOME.

Dsney, the best game I ever watched at Ellis Park was in july 1997 when the All Blacks beat the Springboks 35-32.

The athmosphere was electric, and the game itself was brilliant.

Taylorman wrote:Sharks have the worst journey. After fending off a tough Bulls challenge they have to now come to NZ to win a match no SA team has since the Super series started in 96- a playoff match.

Then they either go to SA for stormers or the Reds, then the final somewhere else being bottom qualifier.

Blues and saders home games, both coming off good wins, should win. Tahs have heavy injuries and HATE Eden park so all going well we should be ok...

all things going well that is...

Taylorman, the idea was playoffs between the third to sixth placed teams perhaps sounded like a great idea at the time, but let's be honest, the extra week of touring just makes the top two teams'stask so much easier.

To travel from SA to NZ and then either to Australia or back again to SA, in 3 high intensity matches, the travel fatigue alone will make this the toughest schedule any team can face in the Super 15.

Unfortunately there is no way the Sharks will be able to beat the Crusaders, then come back to beat the Stormers and then travel back to Australia to beat the Reds. Even worse is for them to travel to NZ beat the Crusaders, travel to Aus to beat the Reds and then SA to play the Stormers in a final.

For any team that is too much to ask.

At least Nelson looks like selling out the playoff match

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/5167140/Mad-rush-in-Nelson-for-Crusaders-playoff-tickets

Not bad considering only 90,000 people live in the province.

It will be great to see 18,000 at Trafalgar Park for the playoff match.

How are ticket sales going in Auckland, anyone know? Will it be near 60,000 capacity for that match? That should be a great atmosphere too!

Agree with Taylorman above - NSW will struggle with their injuries and hot/cold form, even more so if it's raining horizontally again...

Yeah the more I think about things the more I'm starting to favour both the 2 Kiwi teams. Reds and Tahs both have terrible losses through injury. I mean Caleb Ralph?

Pat Lam I believe has the Blues right where he wants them and has worked overtime on the Blues pack- the key to any success. Ali Williams is showing his earlier AB form and with Boric may now be the best lineout pair in the comp. And theyre at home.

With the saders players are more returning than departing with Maitland and perhaps SBW back this week and if they win McCaw back next for the crucial away matches.

The sharks as we've said have been the victim of a shortsighted tournament organisers which will have to see them in all 3 countries in 2 weeks to make the final. As Biltong said- too big a task to ask and I agree completely.

The Stormers and Reds are sitting comfy but again that could backfire if both the Blues and Crusaders get some momentum and combinations working from this weeks matches and come through without injury. A week of at this point may be the wrong but we wait to find out.

Reds may just be a little worried about their most recent form in tandem with their injury toll.

Just going back to the original post. I'm not sure we're comparing like with like. I went to the Hurricanes game as well. I took the kids, I'm not sure if I'd go that often (and I'd like to).

Here's why:
1. Time. Kick off is at 7:30 for NZ games. A 10pm finish is too late for young kids. In Europe and SA you get day games. It doesn't happen here anymore. You are also competeing with social events for rest of society. Back in the day we go to a match and then go out on the town.
2. Cost. It's a $100 NZ for 3 of us. This is the aquivent of 100 pounds in the UK. Add on food, transport etc. it's a big cost for the average family. I could take the kids out for dinner and movies and more for the same prices. As noted before there are no dscounted tickets late in the match, even with the stands mostly empty.
3. Access. There is limited parking. We had a 20 minute walk to the stadium. not great for kids.
4. Atmosphere. NZ stadiums don't have an atmosphere when rugby is involved. In the good old days it didn't matter, because we had at least all played rugby, even if only at a limited extent, and we all watched it regularly. The NZRFU needs to work on the atmosphere, a la the phoenix (local football team).

There are some other issues:

1. Sky TV. The TV channel, it's cost and the lack of any free to air prime time viewing, is driving fans away from the game, especially the middle class, women and kids. As kids don't all play or follow rugby anymore the interest is declining (this is the elephant in the room).

2. the quality of the product. The game was highly skilled. If you appreciate rugby, the intensity, speed, and individual skills were great. However, for the general fan the game is not going through one of it's great phases as an entertainment spectical. Strong defenses have lead to a lot of lateral movement and few line breaks. The problem is we have experienced some fantastic rugby over the years. It's not currently a spectical. The crowd was noticably bored in the middle of the second half.

Well, basically I think it is because the viewer-ship of the Super 15 is mainly concentrated in South Africa, they try to make sure the SA viewers get to see all the matches at a convenient time.

It is mainly the 3 strongest teams that get good attendance in SA, the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers. And whenever the Crusaders play the I think even Bloemfontein will be close to capacity crowed. Ellispark doesn't get the attendance it once got, but that has more to do with the form of the Lions than anything else.

Rugby probably has about 8 million viewers (this might get higher because of the Soweto games) in SA which is more than the population of NZ and that is probably the reason the times of the games are skewed to suit the SA viewers.

Rugby is also not free to watch in SA, but the income of the rugby viewers are on the higher in here in SA and even though it is not the most popular sport, it is the richest I think.

Ticket prices are also very reasonable. I think I paid R60 for the Stormers Bulls game on the East pavilion at Loftus (not the best place to sit as a Stormers supporter). That is about 6 pounds. But you also have to walk quite far from where you parked, also about 1-2 kms, and this isn't in a parking area it is on the side-walk somewhere (not the safest thing to do).

I don't think the quality of the product have declined. From my school days I remember us watching for the big tackles, and when we saw a line break that was nice too. Maybe the expectation of how rugby should be played is different in each country, but for me the rugby being played is really of high quality.

I mean, one of my best memories, isn't a line break, it was seeing Joost tackle Jonah after he broke the line in the 1995 RWC.

Fern, interesting. Some thoughts. Are most of your games during the day. The key issue with the walking etc is that they are all late night games. Which is an issue. I think the cost, walking etc wouldn't seem quite so bad if it was daytime.

The latest game is 7pm, but all the super 15 games are at reasonable times for South Africans. New Zealand games are round about 9am for us. But our games are normally 5pm and 7pm.

In the Currie Cup it is 3pm 5pm and 7pm.

Yes we are rather lucky with the time zones of Super rugby.

The only problem for us is really the friday evening games in NZ and australia

Otherwise we basically can see all the matches on Saturdays

Starting from 9h30, 11h30, all the way to the last matches at 19h00 in SA.

The Supersport coverage on rugby is also great, can see most matches in High Definition and the pay channel only costs about 60 pounds per month.

The problem with Ellispark is the venue. Not accessable for cars, very little parking ( you basically park in the City of Johannesburg which isn't far from Brixton which is a dump. Your car is not safe, you walk for miles and it is simply not a pleasant experience.

They were planning to move Ellispark to Alberton a few years ago which would have been a great idea, but now that the Calabash has been built in Soweto, the smart move will be to move there.

It will entice people to come as there are ample parking and close to the 6 odd million people that live in soweto

I have never been to Ellispark, although it is closer to me than Loftus. but don't you normally park at one of the universities and use the park and ride from there?

Hmm, the only 60 pounds comment - for the general South African that is really expensive I think and I really am not interested in anything other than sport. But luckily the cost is split in 3 because all my flatmates watches sport.

I don't think Rugby supporters would want to visit Soweto so frequently.

Fern, many of my mates went to the test match that was played there, for 99% of them it was a great experience, the stopped at the shebeens(local pubs) after the match and the locals were very welcoming towards them.

They felt honoured and happy to see white people in their streets.

According to many of them that is the first time white South Africans made them feel united.

Fern sounds familiar. the cost of sky's rugby channel, which I've almost always had, is steep by NZ standards. You have to purchase several packages before they will let you sign up.

Aside from the cost, the key problem is the lat time for the games. I can't remember the last time I saw live international or super rugby during daylight. It's a killer when you've got kids.

Yes, I know it was a good experience. But I am speaking specifically now about the Lions games which would be the frequent games. I am not going to drive that far out of the city to watch the game. I would probably if the Stormers comes up, but that would be because it is the exception. It is like when I stayed in the Western Cape. It was the distance that kept me away from most of the Stormers games and I really only felt like going there when we played either the Bulls or the Crusaders.

I can't see Lions supporters going to Soweto every Saturday.

blackcanelion wrote:Fern sounds familiar. the cost of sky's rugby channel, which I've almost always had, is steep by NZ standards. You have to purchase several packages before they will let you sign up.

Aside from the cost, the key problem is the lat time for the games. I can't remember the last time I saw live international or super rugby during daylight. It's a killer when you've got kids.

The 60 pounds does include all the other channels though.

For me it is worth it because my wife can watch whatever she wants, my son whatever he wants, and that leaves me free to watch as much sport as I can stomach.

DSTV includes

6 movie channels, all the discovery channels, 3 HD sport channels, 9 other sport channels, and a lot of other channels.

So cost wise it makes sense.

FerN wrote:Yes, I know it was a good experience. But I am speaking specifically now about the Lions games which would be the frequent games. I am not going to drive that far out of the city to watch the game. I would probably if the Stormers comes up, but that would be because it is the exception. It is like when I stayed in the Western Cape. It was the distance that kept me away from most of the Stormers games and I really only felt like going there when we played either the Bulls or the Crusaders.

I can't see Lions supporters going to Soweto every Saturday.

Well like you said, you have never been to ellispark and the Calabash is halfway between Alberton, the southern Suburbs and the West Rand, plus add to that soweto right next to it, with all that in mind I think the stadium will be frequented more often. Just take Loftus as an example, there is a culture of Braais at every match because where people park it is viable, in JHB city it's not as, whereas at the Calabash it will most definitely create a much better vibe.

DSTV makes sense if you use all of that. But they really should give a option for us that only wants Supersport. The rugby and formula one is the only thing I really want. But then again, supersport is where they make there money, and they would probably be in trouble if supersport wasn't only available on the premium package.

Well I think that culture of braai will also stop after the police came down so hard on some of the supporters.

And yes I haven't been, but I had something on the day the Stormers came up to play the Lions. My one friend is a Lions' supporter (yes there still are some left) and we would have gone.

Who knows maybe the Soweto stadium can work. But I think Ellis park is close enough now for people to use the gautrain and use the buses from there. I am sure Ellispark will orginise park and rides from there if the Gautrain busses don't pass there (But I think it might).

Don't know if this is possible to link to a tv screen, it should be as you can link it to a computer screen, but the drifta is only R60 per month and there you have mainly sport on.

biltongbek wrote:Don't know if this is possible to link to a tv screen, it should be as you can link it to a computer screen, but the drifta is only R60 per month and there you have mainly sport on.

No signal at my house, but I do have one. It is free (subscription) on premium.

100NZ$ is the same as 50 UK pounds at present. The dollar is not that strong yet unfortunately.

You are right Welshjohn. I should have elaborated. We don't earn pounds so so spending NZ$100 is like a Brit spending 100 pounds.