6N Round 2: Scotland v Wales, 15 February

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SCOTLAND v WALES
Sunday 15 February 2015
KO 15:00 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: Glen Jackson (NZR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)
AR2: Dudley Phillips (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors);
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors);
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors);
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors);
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby);
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors);
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester);

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby);
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby);
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish);
4 Richie Gray (Castres);
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors);
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors),
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish);
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres);

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors);
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors);
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors);
19 Jim Hamilton (Saracens);
20 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan);
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby);
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby);
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby);

2. WALES

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)
14 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
13 Jonathan Davies (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
12 Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro)
11 Liam Williams (Scarlets)
10 Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
09 Rhys Webb (Ospreys)

01 Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues)
02 Richard Hibbard (Gloucester)
03 Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)
04 Jake Ball (Scarlets)
05 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys)
06 Dan Lydiate (Ospreys)
07 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT)
08 Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

16 Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)
17 Paul James (Bath Rugby)
18 Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)
19 Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)
20 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
21 Mike Phillips (Racing Metro)
22 Rhys Priestland (Scarlets)
23 Scott Williams (Scarlets)

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

08/11/14 - Scotland 41 - 31 Argentina

2. WALES

06/02/15 - Wales 16 - 21 England

29/11/14 - Wales 12 - 6 South Africa

22/11/14 - Wales 16 - 34 New Zealand

15/11/14  - Wales 17 - 13 Fiji

C. Head to Head:

120 Played 120

48 Wins 69

69 Losses 48

3 Draws 3

180 Tries 227

80 Conversions 112

130 Penalties 142

30 Drop Goals 25

1,204 Points 1,578

BigGee wrote:I am not convinced that Liam Williams is as dangerous on the wing as he can be from full back. Like Hogg he is at his best when he is running the ball back against a breaking midfield. I think Wales have missed a trick by not putting Halfpenny on the wing and Williams at FB.

Halfpenny is a fabulous broken field runner. As FES says watch him in the third lions test. He can be absolutely electric.

Again it baffles me why he doesn't ever seem to counter attack for Wales.

I wonder if Grant or Horne will be released back to Glasgow for the weekend?

Grant probably not, as they usually like to keep a spare prop handy, but a shame really as he could do with a game. I am sure he will be back for the Spreys game next weekend though.

Maybe with Horne, it depends on which of him or Fife they decide to keep with the squad. I guess we will find out very shortly.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am not convinced that Liam Williams is as dangerous on the wing as he can be from full back. Like Hogg he is at his best when he is running the ball back against a breaking midfield. I think Wales have missed a trick by not putting Halfpenny on the wing and Williams at FB.

Halfpenny is a fabulous broken field runner. As FES says watch him in the third lions test. He can be absolutely electric.

Again it baffles me why he doesn't ever seem to counter attack for Wales.

The difference is that while Halfpenny can attack, Williams will!

Injuries to first choice pair Maitland and Seymour has shown how little we have in the way of wing options, injuries to another couple of players and we really are in trouble. This is an area that you would hope the SRU recruiters/talent spotters are working hard at. We could do with at least a couple more good options in the mix right now (obviously we have great hopes for Hoyland etc but he's probably one for the future), I've suggested Matty Russell before and I think he would be a very dangerous winger in Union and there must be some SQ wingers in NZ/Aus.

Horne playing at 10 for Glasgow on sunday. Looks a decent enough Glasgow side, should have enough to be Zebre.

Detailed squad list:

Scotland team to play Wales this Sunday (15 February) at BT Murrayfield
RBS 6 Nations (kick-off 3pm) – live on BBC.


15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors); 28 caps, 8 tries, 1 penalty, 43 points
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors); 91 caps, 12 tries, 60 points
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors); 3 caps
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors); 12 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby); 16 caps, 7 tries, 35 points
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors); 6 caps
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester); 35 caps, 3 tries, 37 conversions, 71 penalties, 302 points

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby); 40 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby); 81 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish); 36 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
4 Richie Gray (Castres); 43 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors); 9 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors), 11 caps, 1 try, 5 points
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish); 7 caps, 1 try, 5 points
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres); 35 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

Substitutes
16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors); 4 caps
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors); 7 caps
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors); 3 caps
19 Jim Hamilton (Saracens); 58 caps, 1 try, 5 points
20 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan); 43 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby); 1 cap
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby); 1 cap
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby); 21 caps, 3 tries, 15 points


Not considered through injury: Adam Ashe (neck), Chris Cusiter (returning from knee), David Denton (calf), Chris Fusaro (ankle), Grant Gilchrist (arm), Tyrone Holmes (returning from face), Ruaridh Jackson (knee), Henry Pyrgos (knee), Tim Swinson (calf), Duncan Taylor (returning from hamstring), Duncan Weir (arm).

I love Halfpenny as much as the next Welshman. Ice cold with the boot and incredibly brave in defence, lovely player. But, there has to come a point where we stop pointing to the Third Lions Test as his abilities as broken field runner when he doesn't it do it at any other time. Maybe that Test was the exception, rather than the rest of his career! I'd have rather seen Liam at 15 and Leigh on the wing.

Given the way our lineout fell apart last week we have to get it right or the Gray boys will take us to the cleaners in that area.

MacKnocked-on wrote:Injuries to first choice pair Maitland and Seymour has shown how little we have in the way of wing options, injuries to another couple of players and we really are in trouble. This is an area that you would hope the SRU recruiters/talent spotters are working hard at. We could do with at least a couple more good options in the mix right now (obviously we have great hopes for Hoyland etc but he's probably one for the future), I've suggested Matty Russell before and I think he would be a very dangerous winger in Union and there must be some SQ wingers in NZ/Aus.  

I think the depth will come through. Rory Hughes is a talent at Glasgow and Edinburgh are giving young Hoyland his first start this evening. Bare in mind that we're talking 5th and 6th choice in a particular position. Maitland, Seymour, Lamont and Fife are not a bad quartet of options for one position, and you have Max Evans as well, with Hoyland coming through at Edinburgh.

Left wing is more exposed, with Visser being the main specialist, and Lamont also having had game time aplenty on the left. Behind that there is a gap, with Seymour often being asked to shift sides, and behind that some very raw players in Rory Hughes and James Farndale (yet to start a pro game).

It's why I've been banging the drum all season for Farndale and Hoyland to play for Edinburgh ahead of the likes of Hidalgo-Clyne, Beard and Cuthbert. We need to give these guys some experience. Hopefully next season they'll get more regular rugby, although with Helu and "Big Guy" on the way I'm not so sure.

MacKnocked-on wrote:Injuries to first choice pair Maitland and Seymour has shown how little we have in the way of wing options, injuries to another couple of players and we really are in trouble. This is an area that you would hope the SRU recruiters/talent spotters are working hard at. We could do with at least a couple more good options in the mix right now (obviously we have great hopes for Hoyland etc but he's probably one for the future), I've suggested Matty Russell before and I think he would be a very dangerous winger in Union and there must be some SQ wingers in NZ/Aus.  

Not sure I agree with this, although it shows how far our backline has come that we are moaning about Visser and Lamont. Compare to the days of Webster etc

I think winger is now one of the areas where we have most depth. Compare Visser/Lamont to our 3rd and 5th choice stand off (Tonks & Heathcote?) and they start to look pretty good.

So Maitland is not injured? What has he done?

Weegie Wizard wrote:So Maitland is not injured? What has he done?

I would say he's been told he won't be picked for Scotland until he actually scores a try again for Glasgow, but he is listed as injured in the Glasgow team announcement.

Also worth noting that they list Pyrgos as injured, so that might explain Hidalgo-Clyne's inclusion.

Weegie Wizard wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:Injuries to first choice pair Maitland and Seymour has shown how little we have in the way of wing options, injuries to another couple of players and we really are in trouble. This is an area that you would hope the SRU recruiters/talent spotters are working hard at. We could do with at least a couple more good options in the mix right now (obviously we have great hopes for Hoyland etc but he's probably one for the future), I've suggested Matty Russell before and I think he would be a very dangerous winger in Union and there must be some SQ wingers in NZ/Aus.  

Not sure I agree with this, although it shows how far our backline has come that we are moaning about Visser and Lamont. Compare to the days of Webster etc

I think winger is now one of the areas where we have most depth. Compare Visser/Lamont to our 3rd and 5th choice stand off (Tonks & Heathcote?) and they start to look pretty good.

Any ideas what the 4th and 5th choice wingers would have looked like 10 years ago?? I'd wager much worse.

Weegie Wizard wrote:So Maitland is not injured? What has he done?

I am not sure how accurate the SRU statement is. Holmes and Swinson are listed as injured on it, yet both are playing for Glasgow this weekend. I think the forecast for Maitand and Denton was that they were always likely to miss the first two games. Hopefully we might see both getting a run off the bench for the pro sides next weekend.

Then again Visser and Beattie may play out of their skins and the two of them may not be needed!

No Toolis? I thought he had done enough to get a bench spot perhaps. Don't really see what else we could do with the wings - at least we shouldn't see lamont in the centres.

I think Lamont is a better player now than (ever?!) before. His defence is good and always has been a strong runner. I think he has tweaked his game and appears to be able to pass, offload and (more importantly) run strongly at arms rather than at bodies. He makes more breaks than he is given credit for these days. No issues with him on the wing.

Maitland needs to do more in attack, including scoring tries before he gets back in. All I hear is how 'clever' he is as a player. Not enough, if I wanted a team full of boffins I'd get Stephen Hawking gliding down the touchline
.

Interestingly Lamont has now played the same number of games for Glasgow in his second stint as in his first but in his first he scored 14 in 32 which is fairly standard for an international wing at club level, in his second he has scored 5 in 32. Obviously there are some mitigating circumstances like his occasional move to centre these days but when you consider the better quality of players around and the introduction of teams like Zebre and Treviso his record is quite poor. I do wonder if for him it's harder to get out the squad than stay in, I love the guy as there are few Scottish rugby players who have given as much for as long but really a 34 year old international winger should be an ex-Lion or of similar calibre. Having said that you have to credit an incredibly one dimensional player for adding more to his game but I can't help but feel he'd be of much better use on the bench at flanker instead of Strockosch.

JonnyEdinburgh wrote:
Maitland needs to do more in attack, including scoring tries before he gets back in.  
.

Some people just can't stop going on about his try scoring!

Lamont would not be in the side if all our wingers were available, but I would agree that he has been playing very well this year for club and country and yes he has developed an off load, not always evident in the past. He will do a job for us and he certainly won't shirk a tackle unlike some other wingers!

I'd like to know how many tries Maitland has caused in total as opposed to scored in comparison to Visser

On the Glasgow team announcement Maitland is listed as injured. Hopefully we will see him playing for Glasgow next weekend and back in contention. He played well against Bath in his last game but has had a disjointed season, getting injured every time he seems to be coming onto some form.

Its certainly time for Visser to show his best. We need to see him coming inside looking for work more and running support lines - thats when he is at his best. a couple of thumping tackles wouldn't go amis as well- I remember him sort a certain Mr North out in a pro 12 game before his leg break - knocked him backwards and took the ball off him so he can do it.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Weegie Wizard wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:Injuries to first choice pair Maitland and Seymour has shown how little we have in the way of wing options, injuries to another couple of players and we really are in trouble. This is an area that you would hope the SRU recruiters/talent spotters are working hard at. We could do with at least a couple more good options in the mix right now (obviously we have great hopes for Hoyland etc but he's probably one for the future), I've suggested Matty Russell before and I think he would be a very dangerous winger in Union and there must be some SQ wingers in NZ/Aus.  

Not sure I agree with this, although it shows how far our backline has come that we are moaning about Visser and Lamont. Compare to the days of Webster etc

I think winger is now one of the areas where we have most depth. Compare Visser/Lamont to our 3rd and 5th choice stand off (Tonks & Heathcote?) and they start to look pretty good.

Any ideas what the 4th and 5th choice wingers would have looked like 10 years ago?? I'd wager much worse.

I think Lamont & Simon Danielli were our top 2. Then Webster maybe? Nikki Walker? My brain has deleted most of my rugby memory from then.

I know his try scoring record is poor but Maitland is our second best winger and we don't need to replace him at all. His covering defence is better than any wing I have seen play for Scotland. So often you see us stretched and him up against a 2 or 3 on 1 overlap. He is so quick off the mark that he is able to reach the ball carrier before he can offload it.

One reason I think his try scoring is so bad is that he is pretty much guarenteed a place in the Scotland team. I hope the move to LI means he tries to prove himself a bit more because he should be our best attacking option but Seymour is miles ahead at the moment.

How many tries does maitland set up with breaks and offloads? seems to me quite a lot

RDW_Scotland wrote:

JonnyEdinburgh wrote:
Maitland needs to do more in attack, including scoring tries before he gets back in.  
.

Some people just can't stop going on about his try scoring!

Haha I thought I was making a new and interesting observation that merited further discussion on this forum! Honest...... Lets just stick Nel at 14 at the world cup and put the argument to bed once and for all

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am not convinced that Liam Williams is as dangerous on the wing as he can be from full back. Like Hogg he is at his best when he is running the ball back against a breaking midfield. I think Wales have missed a trick by not putting Halfpenny on the wing and Williams at FB.

Halfpenny is a fabulous broken field runner. As FES says watch him in the third lions test. He can be absolutely electric.

Again it baffles me why he doesn't ever seem to counter attack for Wales.

Gatland does not allow him to. thats the only answer I can see. It is a travesty.
Gatland likes safety first - counter attack you could be turned over in your half or you could make a great break. Kick the ball back and you are safe.

JonnyEdinburgh wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

JonnyEdinburgh wrote:
Maitland needs to do more in attack, including scoring tries before he gets back in.  
.

Some people just can't stop going on about his try scoring!

Haha I thought I was making a new and interesting observation that merited further discussion on this forum! Honest...... Lets just stick Nel at 14 at the world cup and put the argument to bed once and for all

Apologies - I've got a bit of a reputation on here of constantly making a joke about Maitland's try scoring record, my comment was entirely tongue in cheek!

A few people have said that although Maitland doesn't score much (2 in 14 tests) he sets up a lot of tries.

Scotland tend not to score many tries (other than the most recent AIs, where he scored 1 set up 0) so it doesn't take much to catch highlights from the past few years, and it isn't overly true at Scotland level!

TJ wrote:How many tries does maitland set up with breaks and offloads?  seems to me quite a lot

Is exactly what I was going to ask

Lee is out. We ARE fudged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/welsh/

What is Alastair Dickinson like at scrummaging?

Maybe Gatland regrets not treating Adam Jones with a bit more respect now. It was almost inevitable they were going to miss him at some stage.

The Saint wrote:Lee is out. We ARE fudged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/welsh/

That is bad news for Wales. It's a shame because I really like him as a player.

GavinDragon wrote:What is Alastair Dickinson like at scrummaging?

Since they took the hit away, really good.

GavinDragon wrote:What is Alastair Dickinson like at scrummaging?

He has been on the form of his career this season, justifiably keeping Ryan Grant, who is no mean LH, out of the side. He has murdered a few decent TH's this year.

One of the French props last week, in a post game interview, mentioned he couldn't believe how powerful Dickinson was.

Of course having said all this he will probably get mullered in the scrum

cakeordeath wrote:One of the French props last week, in a post game interview, mentioned he couldn't believe how powerful Dickinson was.

Of course having said all this he will probably get mullered in the scrum

Any links to that?

reallybored wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:One of the French props last week, in a post game interview, mentioned he couldn't believe how powerful Dickinson was.

Of course having said all this he will probably get mullered in the scrum

Any links to that?

I am at work, so anything of any interest is blocked. I think it was the Daily Record site (honest I read it, I seen it via FB)

cakeordeath wrote:One of the French props last week, in a post game interview, mentioned he couldn't believe how powerful Dickinson was.

Of course having said all this he will probably get mullered in the scrum

Yeah he has been taking some serious names recently Euan Murray was eaten on toast by Dickinson in the 1872 cups, and France's scrum got a dooin last week. Our tight 5 even with the Scrum Dr Cross replacing Reverend Murray IMO is out strongest unit on in our arsenal.

Maybe the French prop just realised how weak he was but wanted to whistle past the blunt conclusion and blame Dickinson instead?

OMG - I am veering towards optimism - someone give me a good slap please!

The Saint wrote:Lee is out. We ARE fudged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/welsh/

It makes Adam Jones' retirement seem even more ridiculous but I don't think its a bad thing. Samson will not be able to play every game at the World Cup, we need to have Jarvis tested in the international environment.

SecretFly wrote:Maybe the French prop just realised how weak he was but wanted to whistle past the blunt conclusion and blame Dickinson instead?

Ok, I was talking poopie.

He doesn't mention Dickinson by name. Just talks about the tight 5
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/rugby/scotland-springboks-north-says-giant-5127184

cakeordeath wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Maybe the French prop just realised how weak he was but wanted to whistle past the blunt conclusion and blame Dickinson instead?

Ok, I was talking poopie.

He doesn't mention Dickinson by name. Just talks about the tight 5
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/rugby/scotland-springboks-north-says-giant-5127184

Cheers. Been impressed with Dickinson but I'm a Grant fan and would like to see him get a chance at some point.

TJ wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am not convinced that Liam Williams is as dangerous on the wing as he can be from full back. Like Hogg he is at his best when he is running the ball back against a breaking midfield. I think Wales have missed a trick by not putting Halfpenny on the wing and Williams at FB.

Halfpenny is a fabulous broken field runner. As FES says watch him in the third lions test. He can be absolutely electric.

Again it baffles me why he doesn't ever seem to counter attack for Wales.

Gatland does not allow him to.  thats the only answer I can see.  It is a travesty.
Gatland likes safety first - counter attack you could be turned over in your half or you could make a great break.  Kick the ball back and you are safe.

But Gatland and Howley were both coaches on the lions tour for that third test.

He was offering himself last week, in the first half. We just didn't win any ball in the second half, what we did we wasted.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Exactly.  It's not the fact that he's 1 dimensional that bothers me about him - he's very good at what he does - it's the fact that he's not really shown any improvement in the areas that could turn him into a world class blind side to rival the likes of Kaino etc.

He's 27 now - he's had plenty time!

Would Lydiate actually get in another team though?

England? No you have Wood and Haskell, I would pick Croft, Clark,Garvey and Fearns instead of him too.....

Ireland? No you have Mahony.

Scotland? No you have Harley and of course Kelly Brown.

I guess he would get in the Italian side actually.....

Lydiate is like a 2nd rate version of Joe Worsley though perhaps that's too insulting to Joe Worsley....

Scotland team looks good. Lament is a lump of a winger but a talent. Biased is due a bit more luck too. That's a great back three. The centres are both playing well and I am a huge fan of Finn Russel.

Pack looks good too. They held their own last week in Paris. With Wales now missing Samson Lee I would say the scots tight five have the upper hand. Our backrow need a very big game...!!!

Last years result was an anomaly, Hogg going off so early was harshly unjust on a team that were impressive at times. It won't be anywhere near that easy this year.

Scotland Vs Wales has been an incredible game in the past.

I am sure we all hope this is another classic.

chris_501 wrote:

The Saint wrote:Lee is out. We ARE fudged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/welsh/

It makes Adam Jones' retirement seem even more ridiculous but I don't think its a bad thing. Samson will not be able to play every game at the World Cup, we need to have Jarvis tested in the international environment.

Jarvis has been tested a number of times in the international environment and he did a decent job. That was before they changed the rules so now I don't think he would do as well. If you need convincing then go and watch some Ospreys games this year. Although he can't scrum he pretty good elsewhere, and I also think our pack will do better than most people think - just look at the other players around Jarvis.

beshocked wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Exactly.  It's not the fact that he's 1 dimensional that bothers me about him - he's very good at what he does - it's the fact that he's not really shown any improvement in the areas that could turn him into a world class blind side to rival the likes of Kaino etc.

He's 27 now - he's had plenty time!

Would Lydiate actually get in another team though?

England? No you have Wood and Haskell, I would pick Croft, Clark,Garvey and Fearns instead of him too.....

Ireland? No you have Mahony.

Scotland?  No you have Harley and of course Kelly Brown.

I guess he would get in the Italian side actually.....

Lydiate is like a 2nd rate version of Joe Worsley though perhaps that's too insulting to Joe Worsley....

Okay but just how and why is he 2nd rate to Joe Worsley? Funny that before Lydiate came along, England fans wouldn't allow anyone to say how average Worsley was.

On paper this looks like it should be a cracking game, light cloud and light south wind forecast for Sunday as well. So it's probably going to be a terrible game and both sides fans will leave Mitrayfield frustrated haha.

Tonks Scott in bench is great to see.

Lamont 1.88m/105kg vs Williams 1.88m/87kg is a smart move I think.