6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February

by **RDW** Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:11 pm

SCOTLAND v ITALY
Saturday 28 February 2015
KO 14:30 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: George Clancy (IRFU) 6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February Gaah11

6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February Gaah11

AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Leighton Hodges (WRU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND
6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February Susan_10

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Tommy Seymour
13 Mark Bennett
12 Alex Dunbar
11 Sean Lamont
10 Peter Horne
09 Greig Laidlaw (capt)

01 Alasdair Dickinson
02 Ross Ford
03 Euan Murray
04 Tim Swinson
05 Jonny Gray
06 Rob Harley
07 Blair Cowan
08 Johnnie Beattie

16 Fraser Brown
17 Ryan Grant
18 Geoff Cross
19 Ben Toolis
20 Hamish Watson
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Greig Tonks
23 Matt Scott

2. ITALY
6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February Murino11

6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February Murino11

15 Luke McLean
14 Michele Visentin
13 Luca Morisi
12 Enrico Bacchin
11 Giovambattista Venditti
10 Kelly Haimona
09 Edoardo Gori

01 Matias Aguero
02 Leonardo Ghiraldini
03 Dario Chistolini
04 George Fabio Biagi
05 Joshua Furno
06 Francesco Minto
07 Simone Favaro
08 Sergio Parisse (capt)

16 Andrea Manici
17 Alberto De Marchi
18 Lorenzo Cittadini
19 Marco Fuser
20 Samuela Vunisa
21 Guglielmo Palazzani
22 Tommaso Allan
23 Giulio Bisegni.

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

15/02/15 - Scotland 23 - 26 Wales

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

2. ITALY

14/02/15 - England 47 - 17 Italy

07/02/15 - Italy 3 - 26 Ireland

22/11/14 - Italy 6–22 South Africa

14/11/14 - Italy 18–20 Argentina

C. Head to Head:

21 Played 21

14 Wins 7

7 Losses 14

0 Draws 0

40 Tries 28

30 Conversions 23

58 Penalties 50

5 Drop Goals 6

475 Points 365

by lostinwales Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:18 pm

On the white line fever I didnt see huge amounts of the game but did see the ruck on welsh line.

Now Scotland have some big guys, and on one side of the ruck defending the line was Webb and Williams. And yet, somehow, you ended up seeing one of the Grays hammering in the other side right into the Welsh pack.

by Shifty Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:38 pm

RDW I really do feel sorry for you, every year you will Scotland to win and every year without fail they give you a glimmer of hope only to cruelly snatch it away.

Truth be told though I'm not sure how close people think that game was. The first try was against the run of play and long range. Scotland could of had a man yellow carded for an off the ball tackle during the Rhys Webb try, they were also lucky that the game wasn't restarted with a penalty after the conversion.
The Dan Biggar yellow could easily of been red as the offending player made no attempt to go for the ball, he literally ducked underneath Dan Biggar causing the dangerous incident.
Wales blew another try with Ball and AWJ blocking when it really wasn't needed.

Even when you gave yourself a chance at getting into the game at the end, the try scoring player would rather get involved in a scrap than use common sense and get the ball to the kicker quickly to give yourself a chance of winning from the restart.

The single biggest issue I saw that was wrong with Scotland is every time a Welsh player took the ball on they always made ground. England stopped Wales by stopping them dead, Scotland weren't strong enough to do that and eventually got tired.

The basic problem Scotland have is their simply not good enough, their more creative this season, but more lightweight too, so you have improved your attack at the expense of your defense.

by Nematode Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:41 pm

What was disappointing was how quiet Visser and, unusually, Lamont were. They just didn't feature. When SHC made the break it was Bennett on hand. That is really the winger's job - something that Visser (the left-winger especially in the case above) is in the team for. We were poor under the high ball, which is something that Dougie Fife is good at, so surely if Seymour and Maitland aren't fit Fife should replace Visser.

Also, the back row lacked oomph. With Strauss and Du Preez in the wings, as well as Denton and Ashe to come back, we have that covered. But at the moment Beattie is often AWOL, and Cowan isn't quite as effective at carrying as was maybe hoped for. I can't help but feel Harley could do with an extra few kgs of bulk too.

Also I felt Russell had an off day. Great one minute, TV smashing the next. Yes he's young and will develop but completely missing touch is unacceptable in any league. Laidlaw too was slow and ineffective a lot of the time in contrast to the Autumn.

Looking ahead, there are definitely elements of the game that need changed. First and foremost, we need quick ball. That needs to come from more effective forward play, more energy from 9 and better communication. Secondly, we need to bring our wingers into the game. Dunbar and Bennett can't be tasked with all of the work. Lamont wasn't used nearly enough (or at all even) on the crash ball. Share the load.

For me, this is my 23 against Italy:

Dickinson
Ford
Murray
Gray
Gray
Harley
Watson
Denton

Laidlaw (50' SHC)
Russell
Maitland
Dunbar
Bennett
Seymour
Hogg

Grant
Brown
Cross
Toolis
Cowan
SHC
Tonks
Fife

I think SHC should be given more time, but to take Laidlaw out completely might send out the wrong message to the team. Let them prove themselves, but give players a go.

by Nematode Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:43 pm

On a side note, I've just realised I've surpassed 1000 posts Erm

by **BigGee** Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:45 pm

Pretty much agree with your team for the next game, except I would have Welsh on the bench instead of Cross, I thought he was better in tight and loose.

Watson on bench instead of Brown. I actually agree with Scott Johnson on this one, Kelly Brown is not an impact player, you either start him or not. Currently I would start Harley, unfortunately I don't think Kelly Brown is going to play for Scotland again. A quick open side would have been the ideal player for the last 10 mins of a game like this, give him a shot against Italy and see how he gets on.

Ok keep Laidlaw on the bench, but start S H-C. There is a pretty good argument for not even benching Laidlaw, again he is not an impact player. If Cusiter is fit, maybe have another look at him.

Some gentle tinkering needs to be made for the next game, hopefully players returning from injury will be most of it, but the knife needs to be sharpened in a few cases as well.

by sensisball Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:00 pm

Some good aspects to Scotlnd's play but within a mniute of the start Roberts was smashing the ball up the middle and we were standing off the Welsh attack, this set the tone for large periods of the game. Biggar kicked really well because he wasnt put under enough pressure and 0.5P was imperious under the high ball.

Unfortunately there appear to be no leaders in this current Scotland squad, which makes Brown's exclusion all the more infuriating. Strokosch is one of my favourite Scottish players of recent years but on the evidence of these two games he can no longer cut it in a blue jersey. We will see the cut of Cotter's jib come his seelction for the Italy game.
Beattie was pretty anonymous again, Ashe or Denton cant get back soon enough.
Other interseting point was Hidalgo Clyne looked a much better fit for Russell than Laidlaw. He gets to rucks fast, his service is crisp and accurate and offers a real runnning threat. If the idea is to have an attacking midfield then having a 9 that plays at a faster tempo and can fix backrows with his running threat seems like the way to go, but i doubt Cotter will see it that way.

by Cowshot Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:04 pm

I had Scotland as underdog and was supporting them for that reason (I support Wales ditto) and I think the game was lost in that ten minute period when you were camped on the Welsh line and did NOTHING but pick and go into an organised defence close to the ruck.

What that said to me was that when Scotland get close they have no idea what to do. Panic took over. Man I was frustrated! Not even Scottish (though the only representational honours I have are for Scotland from Uni days - not in Rugby I should add). The ref may not have been good - but Scotland lost that game by their decisions, not the ref.

Scotland are a lot better than they believe they are. But it's the belief that is what matters at the moment.

by sensisball Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:12 pm

One plus point though was near the start of the match Visser actually tackled someone and brought them to ground by actually wrapping his arms around their legs and knocking them over in a traditional fashion!!
Oh and once again we can all see that big Jim isnt really an impact sub.
If Ritchie Gray has broken something in his arm, who should replace him? Big Jim or Toolis?
Tempted to say Toolis except i think he would be a much better impact sub than Jim so maybe start Jim for his grunt and then take him off for Toolis around the 50 mark?

by Standulstermen Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:20 pm

Commiserations on the result lads. Was backing Scotland all day today so was disappointed for you.

Just on the team for Italy who comes in if Russell isn't playing as I would be very surprised if he doesn't cop a ban. World Rugby or IRB or whoever have made their bed on the issue of contact with the player in the air sadly.

by 123456789 Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:11 pm

Firstly I thought the game was very good particularly in the first half, and secondly the atmosphere in and around Murrayfield was excellent and the Welsh were brilliant, Flower of Scotland was louder but nowhere near as tuneful as their national anthem and lastly does anyone have any news on the guy who'd collapsed in block 6 of the West Stand?
I do think the standard of refereeing has to improve all round, Nigel Owens should be the standard not the exception. Glen Jackson's incompetence bordered on disgraceful, to me if Webb's illegal tackle prevented a try it surely must have been a yellow, in addition why did he not use the TMO for the try was a joke. His refereeing of the game in the last twenty minutes showed a complete lack of bottle, he wouldn't produce a yellow even when a Welsh player picked up the ball and hoofed it off of the pitch after a penalty had been given. The Welsh guy next to me had similar feelings to me but mainly in the reverse, we agreed Scotland were worse off but he felt hard done by frequently as well, it was abysmal.

Nevertheless we had enough chances for the tool in the middle to have been inconsequential, to get inches away and not score is ridiculous. Either patience or accuracy, preferably both, are necessary and we showed absolutely none at all and Greig laidlaw has to take the blame for this. He is consistently proving to be a liability, I'd give SHC the start for the next game, we've proved in the last two matches that we are the equal, or not far off, of the "big four", and we should have enough to see off Italy with an almost second choice team, if he's poor bring back Laidlaw if he performs then it's a bonus. Russell had a poor game but it was inevitable that he would one day, Hogg was brilliant again as was Bennett, Scott was poor and I didn't feel bringing him on was necessary as Dunbar was doing well. Brown and Barclay would have been key with dealing with the ego with the whistle. However the fact we, or I, can rage so uncontrollably having lost by three points to Wales shows how we've come on in the last 12 months.

Also additionally there seem to be some football-esque behaviour from Liam Williams, who seems a bit of an arse, and Stuart Hogg, who if he wasn't the best Scottish player of the last decade I'd think was an arse.

by Bored.. Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:14 pm

Devastated by that loss. Some very dodgy refereeing decisions as its been pointed out. However, as Cotter said we should focus on things we can control. We can control the speed of the ball out to the backline, we can cut out the needless penalties and we can develop more composure in pressure situations.

This is a young and inexperienced Scottish side - we can develop these qualities over the coming months and years. Whether that be through personnel changes or players getting more gametime at international level. The worrying thing is we seem to have no real leaders on the field that can dictate the way we play and looking at the current squad there doesn't seem to be anyone who can step up. Gilchrist maybe, Kelly Brown maybe.

It is so frustrating that we come so close to grabbing a win every year but it just seems to fall away. Although, with this group of players and coaches I think we can become a force in international rugby who can win regularly against the top 8 sides.

by 123456789 Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:17 pm

Also what are the thoughts on the yellow cards I personally, surprisingly, felt that Davies one was worse as he deliberately took a player out in the air regardless of the consequences it is foul play. The Finn Rusell one was almost the direct opposite. I was also disheartened when Warburton asked for a red card for it, he's talked up as a gentleman of the game and it goes against rugby's principles of fair play and honesty furthermore surely he should have wanted to show his team were better 15 against 15.

by JDizzle Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:41 pm

As a Welshman, I though your best player was Dunbar. He was a beast over the ball in defence, got a couple of lovely turnovers. Hogg was the main man in attack though. Doesn't stop me feeling the same way about him as I guess others feel about Liam Williams!

Finn was much more bad than good today. Had one lovely moment in the first half, when he put someone through a hole with a beautiful delayed pop. After that, he went to pieces a bit (Thought his offence was worse than Davies, as he just took Biggar's legs which is much more dangerous than JD's who was trying to challenge for the ball, but just got a slight nudge from Lamont). Missing touch from a penalty is unforgivable, experience isn't really an excuse for that. If he is banned for the next game will Hogg be considered at 10?

Laidlaw was poor. He's not getting the ball clear from the breakdown with speed, nor is he a real threat around the fringe a la Youngs last week vs us.

Your set piece was impressive, albeit against our weakened (from weak already) scrum. Disrupted our line out nicely too.

Not sure what your game plan to score was though, did you even try and go wide when you were 5m out? Got to try and get Hogg in a one vs one and get him, or a centre, looking for an offload.

I can draw parallels to how you feel in comparison to how I always feel when Wales play a SH team. You just have to keep doing what you are doing, because you genuinely have some very talented players now (Gray brothers, Dunbar, Bennett, Hogg), and keep knocking on the door and you just need some luck to get over the line to gain some believe. And hope you do it quicker than Wales did!

by R!skysports Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:53 pm

Too annoyed to really comment, but my main feeling is same old rubbish from us

We have not progressed at all

We lost against a terrible French side and a poor Welsh side

We have flashes on individual flair, but no structure, no plan and no ability to work a try - but the ability to brain fart and give away penalty after penalty, just some good defence kept us in it

RUBBISH< RUBBISH RUBBISH

Sorry I am so angry that I bothered to get my hopes up again. Feel a complete and under idiot for doing so

Looking forward to going back to work with the usual - if only.... we could have... but this player is good

sorry but Scotland deserve to be fighting for the wooden spoon again - as that is our level

by cakeordeath Sun 15 Feb 2015, 11:07 pm

I have said this before we need to drop Laidlaw, I have never been a fan. For me his biggest problem us that he isn't as good as he thinks he is. What a difference SHC made when he came on. Which let's not forget was his debut.

by the_oncoming_storm Sun 15 Feb 2015, 11:12 pm

I was at the game and have just finished watching the recording, and I'm still not really sure how to feel about it.

In many respects, that could've been a Scotland performance from 2 years ago. Strong defensively but far, far to many stupid mistakes when chances to score arose. Russell had a nightmare (everyone's allowed one), we were *atrocious* under the high ball, the referee gave a unique performance, and yet we only lost by 3 points.

At the moment we seem to be at the point where we're capable of a lucky win against a good team. A different bounce of the ball last week, and a different refereeing decision this week could have brought us 2 wins from 2, but I don't think anyone could say that we would have clearly deserved to win either game. Our game management has been very poor, and we haven't really been able to impose ourselves for long periods in either game.

A lot of the refereeing decisions today have already been highlighted, but beyond the major ones, another that stood out on me was Faletau's blatant high tackle on Visser, right before Wales stole the ball to run in their first try.

I'll resist the urge to moan about other decisions, but in the interests of my education (I've only been watching closely for a few years), Cowan got pinged twice early in the game for not rolling away and neither offence looked like a good call to me. The first time he appeared to be getting out the way quickly, and the second time it looked like he was being held in by the Welsh player - so if someone's got a recording handy, I'd love to know what is it I'm missing or what I should be looking for.

I'm a big admirer of Russell but had, say, Duncan Weir put in that performance this time last year, I'd probably have been calling for someone else to get a shot. I thought Sam H-C showed great promise when he came on (especially with the speed of his passes), and I'd be tempted to start with Sam H-C and Russell against Italy. If Denton recovers in time for the Italy game I'd also be in favour of replacing Beattie.

The other big question for me is: Why did our game plan not seem to involve using the wingers at all? What's the point in Visser if you're not going to use his only asset?

A frustrating day (again).

Anyway, I expect we will beat Italy - but that's not going to tell us much. Unless we can cut out the errors (especially when over- or under-cooking our kicks to touch) I do fear our trip to Twickenham. We've a promising team, but I think there's still a couple of years to go before we reach the point of realistically expecting to win 3 games in a campaign.

by **profitius** Sun 15 Feb 2015, 11:49 pm

The better team won. The ref made some mistakes but it didn't change the result. Wales have better players and a few moments of class was the difference. It was an entertaining game though!

I thought Laidlaw was really poor. When Scotland were up on the Wales line he kept taking wrong options and was extremely slow.

Cotter won't perform miracles but they are playing better this season. Long way to go yet and they team will evolve under Cotter.

by Cowshot Sun 15 Feb 2015, 11:54 pm

Belief. Call it arrogance if you will. Scotland's players need some. From the talent and some of the loose forward play in particular I'm glad we're not playing you at Murrayfield this year...I remember the telescopic arms of a certain Mr Stanger...

by SecretFly Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:19 am

I think Scotland's greatest mistake was that bright eyed adrenalin rush game they were dragged into by the crafty Welsh. Impatience got to Scotland over and over again, and 'detail' responsibilites then evaporated

by Cowshot Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:25 am

I think we are identifying the same thing, just responding to it in slightly different ways. Smile

by GLove39 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:34 am

123456789 wrote: he wouldn't produce a yellow even when a Welsh player picked up the ball and hoofed it off of the pitch after a penalty had been given..

I was apoplectic about that, same scenario to Dougie Fife against France, except in the 'red zone', a baws hair width from the line after a series of repeated infringements and he stays on the field furious

by GLove39 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:41 am

Elsewhere, atmosphere was amazing. Loved hearing the Welsh anthem, been too long. And wish the crowd were that hept up every game.

Would love to mention a certain kiwi, but probably crash the swear filter, plus it's been covered elsewhere...

As for events on the pitch, I really do despair though.
New coach, new year, new players, same old Scotland. Valor but no victory.
And for the nth year, the Itay game has the makings of a Wooden Spoon decider. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

So much for turning a corner.

by Guest Mon 16 Feb 2015, 1:22 am

123456789 wrote:Also what are the thoughts on the yellow cards I personally, surprisingly, felt that Davies one was worse as he deliberately took a player out in the air regardless of the consequences it is foul play. The Finn Rusell one was almost the direct opposite. I was also disheartened when Warburton asked for a red card for it, he's talked up as a gentleman of the game and it goes against rugby's principles of fair play and honesty furthermore surely he should have wanted to show his team were better 15 against 15.

Oh dear. Have a look at your big hard number 8 milking a card. Apparently only Wales do it though. Least Bighead tried to carry on.

I hope you're the only person who would call JD2's card worse than Russell's

by alive555 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 6:39 am

profitius wrote:The better team won. The ref made some mistakes but it didn't change the result. Wales have better players and a few moments of class was the difference. It was an entertaining game though!

I thought Laidlaw was really poor. When Scotland were up on the Wales line he kept taking wrong options and was extremely slow.

Cotter won't perform miracles but they are playing better this season. Long way to go yet and they team will evolve under Cotter.

I absolutely dont think wales have the better players.

The only area where wales were better was in kicking and backrow. Most of the good rugby was being played by scotland as opposed to Warrenball - anti rugby kicking and crashball warning

Thats why it was a bad loss , we had scrum dominance, better chances and blew it. Even with that dodgy ref

by **George Carlin** Mon 16 Feb 2015, 7:02 am

Couple of things to add:

1. I'm not having a giraffe but can anyone tell me why we seemed unable to safely recycle our own ball? It wasn't as close to being as smooth as it was against France.

2. We clearly have a game plan and more importantly a set of backs who look potent, particularly if we get one two of Seymour, Maitland and Visser playing at once. I think that Visser has been reasonable in this tournament but in no respect could you say that he's played well.

3. Given 2, if we are not going to kick penalties received in the opponent's half of the field but try to score a try from a line out, then genuinely, what is the point of having Laidlaw if he is principally there for his goalkicking? Clyne must be a 70% plus goalkicker, Russell isn't bad at goal and Hogg/Bennett can have a crack at the longer range efforts. Seriously now, what is the utility in keeping Laidlaw? Cotter has shown that he is not above booting his captain (Kelly Brown). Why not Laidlaw? 9 is a pivotal position - look at how much better Wales look with Webb instead of MickeyPhil. Like night and day.

4. Our lineout is terrific but we lack the weight and technique in our mauling game. I always think that we'll lose the ball when we do, whereas I similarly think that if we can get the back to our midfield, we will score. How odd. How very odd.

5. I'm sorry, but Matt Scott is going to have some work to do in order to get a starting slot back. I am willing to believe that he is not back to fitness yet, but Dunbar should be the first name on the team sheet each week and I would wager that Bennett has made more clean breaks than any of our backs. Scott is not a starter and he needs to realise it and work hard to get the shirt back.

6. I have no problem with Cotter experimenting with Beattie and Strokosch but surely that experiment is now over. Beattie may never get back to his 2009 days and Strokosch is underseasoned and looks ponderous. Not good enough when we have guys like Watson who are ripening quickly. Hamilton is still worth a bench place but a high tempo game is a youngfeller's game and I am keen to see what Toolis can do on the international stage.

7. We need to give Cowan a hand at the breakdown. He can't do it all himself. Brown or Barclay are exactly what we need. What sort of coach will Cotter be? Will he see an issue and try to correct it by changing personnel? That's 2 games out of the 5 played now. If not now (with the easiest game coming up), then when?

by A Simply Mesmeric Try Mon 16 Feb 2015, 7:33 am

I have never been this wound up by sh1tty reffing calls in a match. I was right next to Bennett "scoring" and what I saw still has me reeling!

Was I the only one screaming for a sin-bin when Webb pretty much clothes-lined Sam HC?! You see as Sam gets hit, he's almost KO. It's so dangerous - that's it why it's an infringement, duh, but ref didn't see it as high... Not to mention the ball did not bounce forward, but straight up (I was level with it exactly, in that corner of Murrayfield). Bennett's try should have been awarded. Or at least Penalty/sin bin against wales. For me that was our last chance. When the ref ignored that high tackle the game was over. Welsh management saw it and subbed Webb off straight away. Horse koch!

I'll say it again, the Ref awards Wales a scrum for a knock-on, that resulted from a clear high tackle! It's bloody infuriating!! Almost as infuriating as Scotland's consistency. The linesman weren't watching either - they missed some big calls during the game.
Like Liam Williams literally rubbing Hogg's face in the dirt when in a ruck. At international level, were millions of people watch you, there is no place for cheap shots like that - (see Hogg last year). Williams is fast overtaking as Delon Armitage as my favourite player to hate for being a dirty tw@ (competitive yet disgusting attitude). Good footballer though.

by **RDW** Mon 16 Feb 2015, 8:39 am

Official time keeper yesterday - George Clancy. picard

Anyway, here are Cotter's remarks after the game. They will hopefully put a video up of it, as apparently he was almost chewing through the reporter's face, and you could see the anguish and frustration in every inch of his body language.

Scotsman wrote:Cotter accepted such contentious rulings were hard to take but said Scotland could not afford to dwell on them.

“I thought they [the match officials including the TMO] could have had a look at Greig’s try,” Cotter said.

“I thought when Sam Hidalgo-Clyne hit the ground, he could have looked at that and maybe given us a try earlier.

“There are a lot of things we don’t have control of. I don’t want to lose a lot of energy talking about it, because it isn’t going to change the result.

“What we can do is take some positive things out of the game and things we have improved from from Paris [when Scotland lost 15-8], and for me that is encouraging. This game illustrates areas we need to work on.”

Asked if the officials’ rulings made defeat harder to take, Cotter continued: “Yeah, it is hard to take, but it’s done. There were three penalties inside their 22 in the last 15 minutes.

“I thought some of those errors might have been cynical as well and maybe deserved a yellow card, but obviously not. That’s the way it is. We deal with reality. The reality is that we got close and showed some good signs and played some good rugby, but we have to improve on our high-ball reception.”

Skipper Laidlaw, who had been replaced by Hidalgo-Clyne, suggested the referee would realise he had made a mistake in calling time on the match when he did. “The ref will have to look at that. From where I was sitting, there was time to take the kick.

“Whether we would go on to score was a different matter - we’ll never know that. It looks as though [there was time for another play], and the majority of the stadium felt the same, but maybe the TV clock is different, I don’t know.

“I felt it was a tight test match. The result shows that. We scored a great try in the first half but fell away a wee bit after that. We finished very strongly in the end there and I was disappointed not to get anything out of that.”

Asked if he thought he had scored a try, the captain added: “I’m not sure. I was close, but not sure I got there or not.

“It’s very frustrating. We talked about small margins after the result out in Paris. As Vern said, we’ve got to keep working and improve our game. This group of players is becoming a strong team. I really believe we’re not far away, and we need to keep believing. We’ve got a massive game against Italy at home, and all that matters now is that we turn up in that game and get a positive result.”

He added: “It was a tough game. Credit to Wales for holding on. Rome wasn’t built in a day, this team, we are team on a journey with Vern Cotter but it was a frustrating day for us.”

The closest Cotter came to revealing his frustration was when he was asked if he would get a chance to voice his frustrations about the referee, and said that he would make his feelings know in Scotland’s official report on the match to the RBS Six Nations Championship committee. “We’re in constant communication with them. We’ll try and send something through that will help them, perhaps.”

by cakeordeath Mon 16 Feb 2015, 8:48 am

The post match press conference is on youtube. I was really impressed with what Cotter had to say.

by Prothero Mon 16 Feb 2015, 8:53 am

The thought that kept me up last night was at the end of the tournament we are fifth again having beat italy and lost to every other team in closely fought one score matches? All the Guscott's and Jiffys of this world (two cheeks of the same arse) giving us patronizing plaudits lauding our "progress" and happily putting us back in our "also ran" box till next year.

I don't think i can handle that honestly, Please big Vern don't build our hopes and let them get smashed again. If the rugby Gods are listening, let us nick one against England or Ireland, let us have something tangible to build on and keep our youngsters brave and fearless, not negative and in a losing mindset like the past.

We can only hope Big Ritchie is ok and our injury list doesn't grow, Whats clear is our Bench replacement's are not the same level as our first choice players if we are to have any success this year we need our top boys to stay fit.

With regard to Finn Russell we need to accept he is a in-perfect player, but he is the most perfect of the in-perfect option's we have available to us at stand off. He is young and young players make mistakes, but to me he looks like a special player as he is transferring his gallus personality into the way he plays rugby, he isnt a over coached robot like Farrell he has the potential to be the long sought after mercurial play-maker all Scottish fans want. Lets focus on the positives and not start pining for Dan Parks like accuracy with the boot at Stand off.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:37 am

Cotter is an impressive bloke, there's no doubt. He's certainly right to highlight our high ball reception which was dreadful (whereas Wales were superb in that regard).

Regarding Russell I would say two things: (1) he was generally poor yesterday, make some bad decisions and executed badly; (2) he is our best and most talented option at 10 and should hold the jersey for the remainder of the tournament and the World Cup.

Re: changes I don't think we'll see anything sweeping. Beattie has been poor for two games now (although he was better yesterday than against France), Laidlaw's service is lacking bite and Hamilton/Strokosch are bringing nothing from the bench. Other than bringing Murray back at tighthead, those are the positions and individuals I would focus on.

I think if Seymour and Maitland are both fit then Visser and Lamont should also be under threat. Lamont isn't an attacking threat, and Visser just isn't getting enough involved. If we aren't going to get him running onto the ball at pace, then we shouldn't use him.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:40 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Official time keeper yesterday - George Clancy.

Oh God, I had forgotten that. In which case it's all Al Kellock's fault!

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 10:00 am

I don't really know how to respond here. I'm pretty hurt.

I don't really know if I should type out a bunch of pie in the sky BS that I want to see happen but know in my heart of hearts won't happen or try keep things light by looking at the positives. I think I'll do a bit of both, with some casual ref ranting thrown in for good measure.

Firstly, I think we can all agree that Finn Russel will never play that badly for Scotland again. His turnover for the Welsh try aside he had a nightmare. I think it will make him a stronger player in the long term and he will have learned a valuable lesson that he isn't infallible. No dancing in the sin bin Finn? picard

Secondly where was the Jamie Roberts who played yesterday when England visited Cardiff? He picked a bad weekend to carry the ball like that.

Finally can anyone explain to me what Laidlaw was thinking about when taking quick taps when we were all over them in the Scrum? I'd have been taking the scrum and trying to horse them over the line or take the three points or at the very least get in the ref's ear telling him all about the repeated infringements.

With out current crop of players Laidlaw IMO isn't our best option at Scrum half and IMO isn't our best option as captain. I can't really figure out who that should be. I know who I want it to be but since Kelly Brown is in disfavor...

Failure to beat Wales was not the referee's fault as many posters have suggested. It was a contributing factor no doubt, but the ref had nothing to do with Russel missing touch when the Welsh were smashing the door down with a sledge hammer. Missing that touch by being greedy was the turning point in the match IMO. Wales had yet to breach our line in that half and missing that touch put us under all kinds of pressure.

The touch finder when he was trying to put us in the corner was another potential 7 point swing.

And despite all the talk of "green shoots" of recovery for large parts of that game we looked like same old Scotland. Gone was the attacking endevour we saw in Paris and we reverted to catapulting loose forwards into the fringes of rucks and into the waiting arms of Gethin Jenkins, AWJ and Warburton who pounced on every ball.

Onto the referee. Why he didn't restart the game is a mystery and IMO a thorough investigation should be carried out. Also why did he not go to the TMO on either of our disallowed tries.

Did Laidlaw get the ball over at the end of the first half? Had SHC not been assaulted by a clothesline he would have scored. Had he gone to the TMO, i think we can all agree that tackle was high and it prevented a definite try. Yellow card penalty try in my book.

I would say full credit to Wales but I would be lying. Wales are my second team and it scunnered me to the pit of my stomach to see GATLAND BALL being vindicated. The pundits have a brass neck talking about how France used to be a team with flair and now just play a smash up game of rugby. What about Wales? It is dreadful rugby to watch. Effective I must say but pretty dreadful.

Onto Italy. It's a game I expect to win.

my team :

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray (Toolis if Gray injured)
5. Gray
6. Brown (C) It will be Harley though
7. Cowan
8. Denton

9. SHC (talk of Cusiter is desperate nonsense picking him on his reputation he hasn't been great for sale this year and rightly shouldn't be considered)
10. Russel ( a bad game doesn't make him a bad player)
11. Seymore
12. Dunbar
13. Bennet
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Brown
17. Welsh
18. Reid
19. Toolis/Hamilton
20. Barclay
21. Hart or Pyrgos
22. Scott
23. Visser

I apologize if this response is something of a shambles. It is my mind being poured out onto the internet via a keyboard. A lot going on in there at the moment Sad

by MacKnocked-on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 10:25 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I don't really know how to respond here. I'm pretty hurt.

I don't really know if I should type out a bunch of pie in the sky BS that I want to see happen but know in my heart of hearts won't happen or try keep things light by looking at the positives. I think I'll do a bit of both, with some casual ref ranting thrown in for good measure.

Firstly, I think we can all agree that Finn Russel will never play that badly for Scotland again. His turnover for the Welsh try aside he had a nightmare. I think it will make him a stronger player in the long term and he will have learned a valuable lesson that he isn't infallible. No dancing in the sin bin Finn?

Secondly where was the Jamie Roberts who played yesterday when England visited Cardiff? He picked a bad weekend to carry the ball like that.

Finally can anyone explain to me what Laidlaw was thinking about when taking quick taps when we were all over them in the Scrum? I'd have been taking the scrum and trying to horse them over the line or take the three points or at the very least get in the ref's ear telling him all about the repeated infringements.

With out current crop of players Laidlaw IMO isn't our best option at Scrum half and IMO isn't our best option as captain. I can't really figure out who that should be. I know who I want it to be but since Kelly Brown is in disfavor...

Failure to beat Wales was not the referee's fault as many posters have suggested. It was a contributing factor no doubt, but the ref had nothing to do with Russel missing touch when the Welsh were smashing the door down with a sledge hammer. Missing that touch by being greedy was the turning point in the match IMO. Wales had yet to breach our line in that half and missing that touch put us under all kinds of pressure.

The touch finder when he was trying to put us in the corner was another potential 7 point swing.

And despite all the talk of "green shoots" of recovery for large parts of that game we looked like same old Scotland. Gone was the attacking endevour we saw in Paris and we reverted to catapulting loose forwards into the fringes of rucks and into the waiting arms of Gethin Jenkins, AWJ and Warburton who pounced on every ball.

Onto the referee. Why he didn't restart the game is a mystery and IMO a thorough investigation should be carried out. Also why did he not go to the TMO on either of our disallowed tries.

Did Laidlaw get the ball over at the end of the first half? Had SHC not been assaulted by a clothesline he would have scored. Had he gone to the TMO, i think we can all agree that tackle was high and it prevented a definite try. Yellow card penalty try in my book.

I would say full credit to Wales but I would be lying. Wales are my second team and it scunnered me to the pit of my stomach to see GATLAND BALL being vindicated. The pundits have a brass neck talking about how France used to be a team with flair and now just play a smash up game of rugby. What about Wales? It is dreadful rugby to watch. Effective I must say but pretty dreadful.

Onto Italy. It's a game I expect to win.

my team :

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray (Toolis if Gray injured)
5. Gray
6. Brown (C) It will be Harley though
7. Cowan
8. Denton

9. SHC (talk of Cusiter is desperate nonsense picking him on his reputation he hasn't been great for sale this year and rightly shouldn't be considered)
10. Russel ( a bad game doesn't make him a bad player)
11. Seymore
12. Dunbar
13. Bennet
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Brown
17. Welsh
18. Reid
19. Toolis/Hamilton
20. Barclay
21. Hart or Pyrgos
22. Scott
23. Visser

I apologize if this response is something of a shambles. It is my mind being poured out onto the internet via a keyboard. A lot going on in there at the moment

Prior to his injury I actually thought Grayson Hart looked to be a serious option at 9 and he played very well on Friday night. My feeling is that Edinburgh may have the two current best scrumhalf choices for Scotland on form with he and S H-C? Laidlaw made heavy weather of all the time we spent on the Welsh line and I would think that both S H-C and Hart would have been more effective during that period of the match. Now I'm not suggesting that Cotter should discard Laidlaw but perhaps Hart should be added to the squad.

by cakeordeath Mon 16 Feb 2015, 10:59 am

I agree with this. I think it is time to rest laidlaw. Let's start SHC and have Hart on the bench.

by Nematode Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:03 am

JC on the BBC Sport Website:

They play too much rugby in their own half. They have to learn that international rugby is more about territory rather than possession and if you run the ball and take chances in your own half, you risk being turned over or giving away kickable penalties.
At the other end of the pitch, they failed to take a host of clear chances because of a lack of a clear pattern.
They have all caught white-line fever, they are blinded by the fact they are so close to scoring rather than being calculated and knowing what they are going to do.
Last week against France they went wide and scored outside France through Dougie Fife, this week they played it narrow and the Welsh defence was waiting for them in the tight channels.
They need an organised structure to make sure they get through those crucial last five metres and over the line.

by R!skysports Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:11 am

Woken up and more clear headed

Still think we have not moved forward at all in the last 10 years and not quite sure how we are going to

We have some flair players, which is great = but our pack can not cope with the modern game. We get bullied in every game meaning we have a terrible platform. We spend most of the time defending and rely on a bit of individual excellence.

Changes...

Murray in
Laidlaw out
Visser out
Strockie baby out
Beattie out

Not really caring who we bring in -as anyone, even a certain racist uncle, would be better

by cakeordeath Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:15 am

We definitely need to bolster the pack. Nel and Strauss will soon qualify and Cusack isn't too shabby either.

by Irish Londoner Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:19 am

Just annoyed that the outcome of the game was decided by ref whose only apparent saving grace is that he was equally awful to both sides.

As for the "have we time for a restart" at the end, just farcical.

by highland_scot Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:19 am

Still too emotional and peed off to give a coherent post mortem analysis. I detest games against Wales.

Agreed on SHC to start v Italy though. It's our best chance to give him a fair shot.

I hate the whole high ball rulings though. I wouldn't have given either a YC but that's the way the game is going. We need to learn that if you want to act with impunity you need to fling yourself in the air and go for it. No point pulling out when you realise you won't get the ball as you'll get screwed anyway. No place in the game for the amateur dramatics, rolling around, waving for cards that we see though.

Strockosch can go as well. He does nothing, is not an impact sub.

by captain carrantuohil Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:23 am

I would have thought Hidalgo-Clyne must start, regardless of ensuing complications of captaincy or goal-kicking. Looked a really exciting, thoughtful nuisance (in the best possible scrum-half sense) and one who will play to the strengths of Scotland's back line.

One point remains - I still think that the Scottish forwards don't seem quite as tough at the breakdown as some of the other 6N sides. Perhaps slightly unfair, but I have long believed that one or two of the forwards, who are fine athletes, could put themselves about to slighly greater effect than they do without needing to resort to Hamilton-like stupidity (if I were picking Scotland's team, Hamilton's latest brain implosion would have ensured that it was the last time he ever wore blue). They're not ruck inspectors, exactly, but they don't intimidate the opposition either.

More of a handful at the breakdown, then, oil the hinge and Scotland are going to be winning this sort of game sooner than you think.

by Nematode Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:35 am

I think on reflection we're all being too harsh on the ref as a scapegoat. We didn't deserve to win the game and even if we had caught the restart, we would have never scored a length of the pitch try.

The 2 main problems were i) Territory and ii) Decision making.

i) Territory - If you play in your own half against a team with arguably the world's best goal kicker you are bound to concede points. At one point in the 2nd half Wales had 80% territory as opposed to our 20%. If you choose a lighter back row, you need to be on the front foot playing in opposition territory. It happened against France and again vs Wales. What we really needed was a good aerial game to contest some high balls or to have kicked to the corners more. That can be sorted, however, with Seymour and Maitland, or Fife.

ii) Composure when making decisions - This is where a Kelly Brown might have been useful to take leadership of the pack, specifically the back row. When we got near the line there was no structure. Contrast that to the Gray tries vs Argentina, or Dunbar vs Tonga, or Fife vs France where there was a plan - get quick ball and go wide or away from the ruck - and we have worryingly gone downhill.

Hopefully the Italy game will bring back some confidence.

by **RDW** Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:48 am

I don't think anyone is making the ref a scapegoat - we're all bringing yo Scotland's failings as the main factors

by GLove39 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:56 am

Stuart Hogg wrote:The Italians are coming and hopefully we will absolutely batter them.

You can take the boy out of Glasgow..!

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:58 am

I've been saying since the final whistle blew that it is not down to the referee that we lost this game, and I find it sad that this thread is still populated with people going on about refereeing decisions.

Focus on what you can control, focus on errors in our execution - there were many of them.

I really believe that SHC is the man to take Scotland forward, and that now is the time to let him do so. In the nicest possible sense he is an annoying git of a 9, who despite his age and relative inexperience is more than happy to scream at his forwards and get in opponents faces. He also offers a threat around the fringes that Laidlaw never will. Get him and Russell playing together and let them grow as a unit. Laidlaw has been picked for his experience and control, but both were abysmal this weekend.

I think every Scotland fan has now clearly seen that Stroker is finished at this level. If we're moving away from players like Barclay and Brown as they've been identified as not being what we want then so be it, but we have to apply the same approach to big Al surely when he has been so clearly found wanting.

Is Denton expected to be fit for Italy? I would pick a backrow of Cowan, Watson, Denton if so. Them, along with SHC at 9 would allow us proper quick ball and let us finally start using our backline talent.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:05 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:I've been saying since the final whistle blew that it is not down to the referee that we lost this game, and I find it sad that this thread is still populated with people going on about refereeing decisions.

Focus on what you can control, focus on errors in our execution - there were many of them.

I really believe that SHC is the man to take Scotland forward, and that now is the time to let him do so. In the nicest possible sense he is an annoying git of a 9, who despite his age and relative inexperience is more than happy to scream at his forwards and get in opponents faces. He also offers a threat around the fringes that Laidlaw never will. Get him and Russell playing together and let them grow as a unit. Laidlaw has been picked for his experience and control, but both were abysmal this weekend.

I think every Scotland fan has now clearly seen that Stroker is finished at this level. If we're moving away from players like Barclay and Brown as they've been identified as not being what we want then so be it, but we have to apply the same approach to big Al surely when he has been so clearly found wanting.

Is Denton expected to be fit for Italy? I would pick a backrow of Cowan, Watson, Denton if so. Them, along with SHC at 9 would allow us proper quick ball and let us finally start using our backline talent.

6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February Mb6dvq

by MacKnocked-on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:08 pm

Looks like Welsh is out for the remainder of the 6Ns due to a hand injury that needs an operation. Reid and Richie Gray both getting scans on injuries today.

by Nematode Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:12 pm

Edinburgh's back row has been better than Glasgow's recently so I wouldn't have any problems seeing some Edinburgh players in there - and 2x 7s would give us quicker ball.

by cakeordeath Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:25 pm

On a very slight tangent, the one thing which annoyed me most about Russell yesterday wasn't that he was poor. It is his attitude. The dancing, the joking about and especially the laughing and smiling on the bench after getting yellow card.

by highland_scot Mon 16 Feb 2015, 12:30 pm

cakeordeath wrote:On a very slight tangent, the one thing which annoyed me most about Russell yesterday wasn't that he was poor. It is his attitude. The dancing, the joking about and especially the laughing and smiling on the bench after getting yellow card.

Oh no, not another Mr Attitude Problem in the team! Emo

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