Title Decider 2: Wales v Ireland 14 March

First topic message reminder :


WALES v IRELAND
Saturday 14 March 2015
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Chris Pollock (NZR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

*****

The bookies are keeping with their earlier predictions of no GS winner above Ireland's chances. And same for the Triple Crown.  Though they have Ireland as favourites in Cardiff but not by much.

Given the distinct love-in that we've had over the last fortnight between Irish and English fans, are Wales now the new 'old enemy'?

Keep it clean folks.

Well a bit anyway.

Ireland team:
15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt) 6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements: 16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 18. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) 19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

Wales Team: Webb, Roberts, Biggar, North, Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Jones, Falateau, Warburton, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee.
Replacements: R Hibbard R Evans A Jarvis , J Ball J Tipuric , M Phillips , R Priestland , S Williams

Lawes slid onto a player off the field though didnt he? There wasnt any real reason to do that whereas Hendshaw was probably competing for the ball on the ground and the challenge was quite clumsy. He might get cited but it would probably be harsh enough.

i think he should get cited. and then i would have no problem if they cleared him, as long as they make a clear statement of why.

being cited doesnt mean he gets automatically banned.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:How crooked was Mike Phillips' put in at that last scrum?

In fairness that was probably consistent,don't think either side put in straight all day.

76.36 - Welsh scrum, put in "clearly not straight" he said, free kick Ireland. As wonky as the one with a minute to go yet that was allowed.

We were listening to the ref mic at the stadium and Barnes said that Phillips put in was a particularly crooked one.

So I guess he was admitting that he knew none were straight. Just that mike Phillips first one was worse.

Shifty wrote:If you actually watch the game now you know the score and take the emotion out of it, Wales looked pretty comfortable.  Only in the 50th minute did Wales look like they could of lost the game, and were never behind Ireland at any point.  Wales never got comfortably ahead, but were not really under immense pressure apart from that one gigantic attack from Ireland.  

Ireland made too many mistakes and didn't create very much.  Sexton also had a very poor game with loads of mistakes.
Wales were worthy winners, Barnes didn't really impact the result, though I still think Sam Warburtons yellow was harsh, especially since Ireland seemed to have more warnings for exactly the same offense prior to the yellow.  Though Scott Baldwins high tackle for Ireland first points was very careless.  

Ireland just didn't turn up and perform.  In all honesty Wales, Ireland, France and England are so close together in terms of ability that basically were talking about referees decisions at the end of games because the margins are so tight.  Though it's better than England and France being totally dominant and us wondering which team would win the head to head game to be champions.  

Ireland's performance is typical of a side on a winning streak that is starting to believe it's own press. That hardly anyone played to their normal standards suggests the side had got to the point where it was unable to keep improving, subconsciously thinking that what they're doing is enough. The most difficult challenge for the ABs when approaching the record of 18 or whatever it was was to continually find new ways of winning, even though they were. Especially when every side faced is more and more determined to smash the record attempt off the books, and Wales no doubt were.

It is why learning, re-inventing your own game is ten times harder when you're winning.

If you look at Irish reaction now, they'll all be talking in ways to improve, what they need to do to get it back, where last week it was all about how good they are, improvement not a necessity, or so it seemed.

Taylorman wrote:
It is why learning, re-inventing your own game is ten times harder when you're winning.

If you look at Irish reaction now, they'll all be talking in ways to improve, what they need to do to get it back, where last week it was all about how good they are, improvement not a necessity, or so it seemed.

True. Taylor.  And I've often defended New Zealand on those very grounds.  It's hard to keep struggling to better the guy in the mirror - what's the reference point you have for those improvements - who can you test them on?

But that Wales loss for us might very well be an absolute life saver.  I had already said the guff talk (not exclusively Irish based!!!) about Schmidt would not be something he or the players would have liked.  They have enough pressure just trying to sustain drive and ambition, without the 'Lion's' junk or World Cup crap added to it.

The one thing I am certain is that Wales handed Schmidt a treasure trove of video footage whereby improvements can now be demanded.

PS.... I've written reams on the need to improve - even before last week - as have quite a few of us

Fly .... I've been saying all along that there were issues ...

Mind you, I didn't think it would be Wales that showed Ireland up.

Schmidt has had a honeymoon period when there was not a lot of video footage to analyse. Now there is plenty for teams to get their teeth into.

Something else as well that Shaun Edwards wrote in his column in the Guardian I think a few years ago. At club level then, there was not the analsysis put into club/provincial rugby that is put into international rugby. This is something that Schmidt seemingly did off his own bat, but everyone puts serious effort into analysis at international level.

Sin é wrote:Fly .... I've been saying all along that there were issues ...

Why ever would you think I thought you a fool Sin?? No, I know you've been prodding from the sidelines. All attitudes duly noted

Sin é wrote:

Something else as well that Shaun Edwards wrote in his column in the Guardian I think a few years ago. At club level then, there was not the analsysis put into club/provincial rugby that is put into international rugby. This is something that Schmidt seemingly did off his own bat, but everyone puts serious effort into analysis at international level.

Still think Schmidt will enjoy the videos though Sin.  He'll enjoy not having to slap smug backs (backs with shoulders attached that is, not positions) He'll like being able to bark and use the whip a little again - and tell a few 'special' players they're not so special no more.
I genuinely think it'll give him a lift because I think he excels at 'improving' bad situations rather than chugging along in cruise control.  I don't think cruise control suited him - players get too relaxed and stop listening. He gets jittery in cruise control..

Taylorman wrote:

Shifty wrote:If you actually watch the game now you know the score and take the emotion out of it, Wales looked pretty comfortable.  Only in the 50th minute did Wales look like they could of lost the game, and were never behind Ireland at any point.  Wales never got comfortably ahead, but were not really under immense pressure apart from that one gigantic attack from Ireland.  

Ireland made too many mistakes and didn't create very much.  Sexton also had a very poor game with loads of mistakes.
Wales were worthy winners, Barnes didn't really impact the result, though I still think Sam Warburtons yellow was harsh, especially since Ireland seemed to have more warnings for exactly the same offense prior to the yellow.  Though Scott Baldwins high tackle for Ireland first points was very careless.  

Ireland just didn't turn up and perform.  In all honesty Wales, Ireland, France and England are so close together in terms of ability that basically were talking about referees decisions at the end of games because the margins are so tight.  Though it's better than England and France being totally dominant and us wondering which team would win the head to head game to be champions.  

Ireland's performance is typical of a side on a winning streak that is starting to believe it's own press. That hardly anyone played to their normal standards suggests the side had got to the point where it was unable to keep improving, subconsciously thinking that what they're doing is enough. The most difficult challenge for the ABs when approaching the record of 18 or whatever it was was to continually find new ways of winning, even though they were. Especially when every side faced is more and more determined to smash the record attempt off the books, and Wales no doubt were.

It is why learning, re-inventing your own game is ten times harder when you're winning.

If you look at Irish reaction now, they'll all be talking in ways to improve, what they need to do to get it back, where last week it was all about how good they are, improvement not a necessity, or so it seemed.

Best thing written about Ire since the loss. Now we know better the gaps between where we are and where we need to be. The ideal scenario is we scrape the championship, but it feels a bit blah, keeps us winning, but focussed on RWC. Then we win some but not all of our warm up games, and are purring nicely for the tournament with 1. settled team, 2. settled plan A (think we are close to this) 3. settled Plan B (needs alot of work).

Shifty wrote:If you actually watch the game now you know the score and take the emotion out of it, Wales looked pretty comfortable.  Only in the 50th minute did Wales look like they could of lost the game, and were never behind Ireland at any point.  Wales never got comfortably ahead, but were not really under immense pressure apart from that one gigantic attack from Ireland.  

Ireland made too many mistakes and didn't create very much.  Sexton also had a very poor game with loads of mistakes.
Wales were worthy winners, Barnes didn't really impact the result, though I still think Sam Warburtons yellow was harsh, especially since Ireland seemed to have more warnings for exactly the same offense prior to the yellow.  Though Scott Baldwins high tackle for Ireland first points was very careless.  

Ireland just didn't turn up and perform.  In all honesty Wales, Ireland, France and England are so close together in terms of ability that basically were talking about referees decisions at the end of games because the margins are so tight.  Though it's better than England and France being totally dominant and us wondering which team would win the head to head game to be champions.  

That's more or less how I feel about the bigger picture right now. Wales can beat any side on the day, England have more in the tank, Ireland have yet to click under St Joe and France.....well France are France. Saturdays game could have turned in a split second, it was gripping to say the very least.

maestegmafia wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:How crooked was Mike Phillips' put in at that last scrum?

In fairness that was probably consistent,don't think either side put in straight all day.

76.36 - Welsh scrum, put in "clearly not straight" he said, free kick Ireland. As wonky as the one with a minute to go yet that was allowed.

We were listening to the ref mic at the stadium and Barnes said that Phillips put in was a particularly crooked one.

So I guess he was admitting that he knew none were straight. Just that mike Phillips first one was worse.

Watching the replay, both put ins are very much identical ie bent as a butcher's. Looks like the linesman called the first and WB let the second one go.

Ireland were clearly robbed. Again.

Ireland weren't robbed - they were stopped. They did well to win the last 65 minutes of the game given that they had been penalised off the pitch in the first 15. Wales put in a phenomenal display of tackling with 250 made in the game - a truly exceptional performance.

The Great Aukster wrote:Ireland weren't robbed - they were stopped. They did well to win the last 65 minutes of the game given that they had been penalised off the pitch in the first 15. Wales put in a phenomenal display of tackling with 250 made in the game - a truly exceptional performance.

Most of those tackles took place when the Irish forwards stubbornly held onto the ball as the lads out on the continental fringes were shouting and waving their kerchiefs: "Say, Chaps!!!! - Say, Chaps, over here!!!! - Over here, you brutes???"

Exactly. It wasn't Wayne Barnes's fault that Ireland had the worst case of white line fever since Matt Stevens.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Exactly. It wasn't Wayne Barnes's fault that Ireland had the worst case of white line fever since Matt Stevens.

Well did Barnes tell the white line fever boys that the lads were waiting for the ball on the wing???

No! He didn't! He could have whispered it to Murray or POC but no. He's still in the dock Luckless. I didn't like that he tried to pretend he didn't see them there waiting.

Fair enough. He should be hauled over the coals for that.

It seems a little strange (then again perhaps not 'cos they won), that no one is talking about the trys that Wales butchered on a number of occasions with overlaps and sloppy passing. We lacked a great deal of composure when it mattered as well such was the emotional intensity of the game. Worthy 7 point winners but both teams will be disappointed about their offensive distribution and lack of composure in the red zone. I guess a wins a win though

Very true,Wales butchered 2 trys by my reckoning.Davies poor passing cost you one ,I don't remember what happened with the other one but it is a bit of a concern that 2 of the best teams in the 6N can only score 9 tries combined in the first 4 rounds.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Very true,Wales butchered 2 trys by my reckoning.Davies poor passing cost you one ,I don't remember what happened with the other one but it is a bit of a concern that 2 of the best teams in the 6N can only score 9 tries combined in the first 4 rounds.

Hang on!! We aint played Italy Yet

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Very true,Wales butchered 2 trys by my reckoning.Davies poor passing cost you one ,I don't remember what happened with the other one but it is a bit of a concern that 2 of the best teams in the 6N can only score 9 tries combined in the first 4 rounds.

We were told by everyone that we're not 'trying' to score tries - we're just playing boring containment rugby. All true by the way. Can't score tries if you're sitting in your defensive shield for most of a game.

Wales though never pretend they don't want tries and lots of them. They're like England that way - they don't bluff too much. They tell you they'll try to out-run, think and try you and that's what they set out to do from the first minute.

I think our try count is more respectable for the game we've been playing than Wales' is for their preferred gameplan.

"I think our try count is more respectable for the game we've been playing than Wales' is for their preferred gameplan."

No Fly we just aint played Italy

We ain't played Scotland.

We ain't played Scotland, Ruby.

em..... .. or just like asore said...................

asoreleftshoulder wrote:We ain't played Scotland.

You remember this post:



Back to top Go down


.








Reply with quote


Edit/Delete this post




Report post to moderator or admin


Lock post for new reports

Re: Winners of the 6ns based on the Ais.
Post by RubyGuby on Thu 18 Dec 2014 - 22:43

.



Back to the original question and 2015 is a pretty easy one with Eng and Ire home for us:


1 - WALES
2 - Ireland
3 - England/France
5 - Italy
6 - The Perrenial Dark Horses with yet another false dawn


thumbsup
.
RubyGuby
Posts: 6256
Join date: 2011-05-31
Location: UK

View user profile Send private message

Back to top Go down


.








Reply with quote





Report post to moderator or admin


Lock post for new reports

Re: Winners of the 6ns based on the Ais.
Post by The Saint on Thu 18 Dec 2014 - 23:46

.



Laugh Laugh

It's like the last few messages of the sinking Titanic....

Jack, come back Jack come back !!!! Cian's knocked on, Come back Jack!!!

Band still playing. Lights going out now. Do ever so hurry. Band godawful and cigarettes now wet.

Roberts butchered a potential try by charging into a tackle rather sending the ball out wide. I was shouting at the telly like Jonathan Davies numbers numbers

Penalty to Roberts because Irish defender got in his way.

Abso bloody exactly.

So should the match threads for next weekend be titled Title Decider 3,4 and 5?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Very true,Wales butchered 2 trys by my reckoning.Davies poor passing cost you one ,I don't remember what happened with the other one but it is a bit of a concern that 2 of the best teams in the 6N can only score 9 tries combined in the first 4 rounds.

I'm pretty sure that was Dan Biggar - the long, looping miss-pass that Halfpenny couldn't stop going into touch?

I thought the commentator said Davies but he could have been mistaken.I didn't really look too closely,just sighed with relief.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Very true,Wales butchered 2 trys by my reckoning.Davies poor passing cost you one ,I don't remember what happened with the other one but it is a bit of a concern that 2 of the best teams in the 6N can only score 9 tries combined in the first 4 rounds.

I'm pretty sure that was Dan Biggar - the long, looping miss-pass that Halfpenny couldn't stop going into touch?

Hardly a butchered 'try' though?? You might as well say some of the boys butchered a few tries as the sang their National anthems.

'Twas butchered IMO. If he'd just passed slightly lower then long dog Charteris would have caught and galloped over. Instead it went even higher over him to 1/2p and beyond. Easy try that went begging.

Nah. Too much work to be done even had Halfpenny caught it. It was a butchered move - not a butchered try.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Very true,Wales butchered 2 trys by my reckoning.Davies poor passing cost you one ,I don't remember what happened with the other one but it is a bit of a concern that 2 of the best teams in the 6N can only score 9 tries combined in the first 4 rounds.

I'm pretty sure that was Dan Biggar - the long, looping miss-pass that Halfpenny couldn't stop going into touch?

Yes. Davies did chuck another pass into touch though, but I'm not sure if we were building up to much at the time.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:
Thought that Wales brought down the maul myself so should have resulted in an Irish scrum or penalty (hard to award a penalty at that stage without it being a penalty try). The scrum, I thought Wales took a deliberate step backwards right and caused the wheel, reset Ireland ball. That's how I saw it anyways.

Disagree. Wales did the utmist to avoid pulling it down, Ireland wheeled to the left and stumbled over their own players.

I guess I got confused by the amount of red jersey's on the floor around the Irish teams feet during the final shove to the line then

Only just go round to re-watching. I stand by my view that Wales did not pull it down. After all it is Irish players who go down first and are on their backs while the Welsh players are on top of them. This happens because when the Maul is wheeled left, Wales get a good shove on and the Irish lads at the front trip up.

LondonTiger wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:
Thought that Wales brought down the maul myself so should have resulted in an Irish scrum or penalty (hard to award a penalty at that stage without it being a penalty try). The scrum, I thought Wales took a deliberate step backwards right and caused the wheel, reset Ireland ball. That's how I saw it anyways.

Disagree. Wales did the utmist to avoid pulling it down, Ireland wheeled to the left and stumbled over their own players.

I guess I got confused by the amount of red jersey's on the floor around the Irish teams feet during the final shove to the line then

Only just go round to re-watching. I stand by my view that Wales did not pull it down. After all it is Irish players who go down first and are on their backs while the Welsh players are on top of them. This happens because when the Maul is wheeled left, Wales get a good shove on and the Irish lads at the front trip up.

I e not watched it ac but I do remember seeing a lot of red shirts on the ground as well. Will watch it back and have another look.

It was taken down because that was the only option. Try or Penalty Try or Penalty and a yellow. That's all the Welsh guys were 'discussing' amongst themselves in their body language. Those were their three choices. What to give to keep Ireland away from either draw or victory. I'm sure they felt the best they were going to get was a penalty against them and perhaps another yellow. But they'd have still kept their chances alive for some more seconds.

Two poor passes to Halfpenny or there would have been another 14 points on the board for Wales. The game was never Ireland's to lose, Wales won it fair and square. Page upon page of total sour grapes being posted as usual.

You're a best seller in sour-grapes rainbow. So I'll certainly pay heed when you detect it elsewhere. You've a good nose for it.

SecretFly wrote:You're a best seller in sour-grapes rainbow.  So I'll certainly pay heed when you detect it elsewhere.  You've a good nose for it.

Certainly show me the posts you refer to?  Anyone beats Wales then there is never a post mortem by me pal.  I don't blame the ref, the food or any other nonsense I read here time after time.  Anyway, 16,000 + posts in 2 years and 3 months I would suggest your nose would be far better at it, I imagine you must be rooted to this place!  Get out a bit more, go smell the peat.

Just a quick note to say that you've only got 55 posts left to throw poo at each other, and then I'll have to lock the thread for length.

As you were.

Make them count lads (sorry 54 left now)

George Carlin wrote:Just a quick note to say that you've only got 55 posts left to throw poo at each other, and then I'll have to lock the thread for length.

As you were.

Oh heck, I've got nothing left.

Bit surprised Ireland haven't dropped a couple more players after last week. Do wonder if they are a bit reliant on Heaslip and Sexton. I would have dropped both after their Cardiff no shows. I also suspect Scotland will be happy seeing Rory Best at 2 as well. It's a little harsh bringing in Healy for McGrath too.

Risca Rev wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Just a quick note to say that you've only got 55 posts left to throw poo at each other, and then I'll have to lock the thread for length.

As you were.

Oh heck, I've got nothing left.

Bit surprised Ireland haven't dropped a couple more players after last week. Do wonder if they are a bit reliant on Heaslip and Sexton. I would have dropped both after their Cardiff no shows. I also suspect Scotland will be happy seeing Rory Best at 2 as well. It's a little harsh bringing in Healy for McGrath too.

Ah now Rev you're just on a wind up now

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:
Thought that Wales brought down the maul myself so should have resulted in an Irish scrum or penalty (hard to award a penalty at that stage without it being a penalty try). The scrum, I thought Wales took a deliberate step backwards right and caused the wheel, reset Ireland ball. That's how I saw it anyways.

Disagree. Wales did the utmist to avoid pulling it down, Ireland wheeled to the left and stumbled over their own players.

I guess I got confused by the amount of red jersey's on the floor around the Irish teams feet during the final shove to the line then

Only just go round to re-watching. I stand by my view that Wales did not pull it down. After all it is Irish players who go down first and are on their backs while the Welsh players are on top of them. This happens because when the Maul is wheeled left, Wales get a good shove on and the Irish lads at the front trip up.

I e not watched it ac but I do remember seeing a lot of red shirts on the ground as well. Will watch it back and have another look.

There are a lot of welsh players lying down, but all on their fronts on top of irish players.