Froch Wants The Ward Fight In Nottingham

First topic message reminder :

Carl Froch wants to the Andre Ward fight in Nottingham, does home field advantage make a difference?

http://tinyurl.com/n8k793g

Herman Jaggery wrote:The Dwason win has caveats behind it, simple as that.

But like Jo when Truss is at work...

I could say Hearns had never fought at middle when Hagler beat him..........Me I think it was a cracking win....

You can pick into anything.........

Did Hearns suddenly start dropping like a stone then Truss, like Dawson did?

It's a good win, not a great one. Ward needs to show some ambition or (in your own argument) how is he different from GGG or Kovalev (other than they've vocally called out the best in their division of course

Lets not mention Hearns as Truss will just start rubbing one off about the 80s.

Ward has shown little ambition. He dismantled Froch last time out, a big payday would be on offer but doesn't want to travel? Yet won't go near GGG in his very own living room?

The guy is a complete cackwit of a Frak dog raperer.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Funny isn't it..............The people who come on here drooling over Kovo, Frampton and GGG want Ward to step up..........

You mean the guys that ARE chasing the biggest fights? That ARE being avoid by their North American counterparts?? That AREN'T having tournaments set up in their honour for them to win???

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Funny isn't it..............The people who come on here drooling over Kovo, Frampton and GGG want Ward to step up..........

You mean the guys that ARE chasing the biggest fights? That ARE being avoid by their North American counterparts?? That AREN'T having tournaments set up in their honour for them to win???

The guy who's "been" in big fights is puked on................and guys that are chasing them are lauded..............

Hammer was right about you......A waste of space..

Now what's the other difference between Frampton, Kovo and GGG compared to Ward

Is it that they're not a yank

Did Ward fight away from home in the super 6, has he chased one of his peers for a fight yet. Or has he sat at home stating everyone should just come to him???

Derbymanc wrote:Now what's the other difference between Frampton, Kovo and GGG compared to Ward

Is it that they're not a yank

Absolutely pathetic........

Yet surprisingly True

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Funny isn't it..............The people who come on here drooling over Kovo, Frampton and GGG want Ward to step up..........

You mean the guys that ARE chasing the biggest fights? That ARE being avoid by their North American counterparts?? That AREN'T having tournaments set up in their honour for them to win???

The guy who's "been" in big fights is puked on................and guys that are chasing them are lauded..............

Hammer was right about you......A waste of space..

Someone chuck the thick Yank a dictionary......

Derbymanc wrote:Now what's the other difference between Frampton, Kovo and GGG compared to Ward

Is it that they're not a yank

Did Ward fight away from home in the super 6, has he chased one of his peers for a fight yet. Or has he sat at home stating everyone should just come to him???

Truss doesn't answer questions he knows he can't.....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Herman Jaggery wrote:The Dwason win has caveats behind it, simple as that.

But like Jo when Truss is at work...

I could say Hearns had never fought at middle when Hagler beat him..........Me I think it was a cracking win....

You can pick into anything.........

Not a fair comparison at all Truss.

Moving up is not the same as moving down and you know that as well as anybody.

If Dawson had previously boxed at super middle , and had only been up at light heavy a year or so, then I'd probably credit the win more.

But he's a natural light heavy isn't he, and moving down to super middle meant for him, probably having to lose muscle rather than fat? And that equals a loss of strength. So no, not a top win by any stretch.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Funny isn't it..............The people who come on here drooling over Kovo, Frampton and GGG want Ward to step up..........

You mean the guys that ARE chasing the biggest fights? That ARE being avoid by their North American counterparts?? That AREN'T having tournaments set up in their honour for them to win???

The guy who's "been" in big fights is puked on................and guys that are chasing them are lauded..............

Hammer was right about you......A waste of space..

Jesus wept Truss.

Ward never once fought outside of America in the Super6. He doesn't travel. There are two big fights there for him but so far he's done an effing amazing job of not going anywhere near GGG or Kovalev.

Proper P4P superstars/fighters call out the best around them and seek them out to fight anywhere, any place. Ward on the other hand is doing just the opposite claiming contractual issues.

If he actively seeking out GGG or Kovalev in America? No. Would he get on a plane to England? No. It isn't effing hard sunshine to dish out a bit of vitriol towards him, he invites it on. And stop standing up for everything American, we're not Poopie on your flag (would be an improvement though).

Think Ward is getting a rough ride on here. Accept his lack of activity has been frustrating, but he has been in dispute with his management, it happens and is not something resolved overnight. Should also be remembered, that whilst we would all love to see Ward over here, he is the man at the weight. Whether we like it or not as the man he does not have to be dictated to, Hatton sold tickets left right and centre, but Floyd did not have to come to Eastlands to fight him. Ricky had to go to him. If Froch is genuine about wanting this fight and Ward does not want to come to the UK such is life. Ward has earned the right, in the ring to be as flexible or stubborn as he wants.

Just chuck "Yank" at me when your argument is s**t...........

I get it !!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Just chuck "Yank" at me when your argument is s**t...........

I get it !!

It's ok Trusscargo I still love you and agree that Ward should not have to travel to Nottingham to fight Froch but I think it would be great if he went to that dump and beat the hell out of the Slimester for 12 rounds infront of his chavy family and fans (then KTFO Lee Froch for a laugh)

So who is Wards next target Rowley, don't think the problem is that Ward is not willing to travel for Froch, it's that he doesn't seem to be willing to travel for anybody AND he doesn't seem to be up for doing anything to establish himself (Why is he not calling out other fighters then)

It's a big shame as he's a massive talent and to be honest, think if he retired tomorrow a lot of the boxing world would go meh!!!!!!!

For Truss

If the shoe fits, you hold you yankee brethren up to different standards than other nationalities (See GGG, Klitschko, Frampton (who is still establishing himself), Kovalev), it's been shown time and time again with you admitting near the start of this very thread that you hold Klit different to Ward.

As it stands, it is the epitome of bias.

You're so pleasant Stephanie.

RocNation are looking to make a splash and they have invested very heavily in Ward. I don't think they'll be willing to give up this promotion. Can't see Ward coming over.

Scottrf wrote:You're so pleasant Stephanie.

I know. I'm a charmer ain't I

Derbymanc wrote:So who is Wards next target Rowley, .

No idea, however as he is only just coming back from an extended lay off I am willing to give him a bit of breathing space. He is only 31, as a defensively minded fighter with not many miles on the clock he is a pup. He has plenty time to get back in the groove and reestablish himself in the position his talents warrant. If we are still having a similar conversation in 12 months I suspect I will be arguing from your side of the fence, but think a bit of perspective is required if I'm honest.

Seanusarrilius wrote:RocNation are looking to make a splash and they have invested very heavily in Ward. I don't think they'll be willing to give up this promotion. Can't see Ward coming over.

ROI = Sweet FA

Potential ROI = They sell Ward's couch, TV and coffee table from his lounge to fill it with the few of his loyal fans. That is unless of course Truss goes at which point it's a one man audience, would lose money though on him having to take up three seats on an airplane and to get a heavy duty crane to lift him in!

Derbymanc wrote:So who is Wards next target Rowley, don't think the problem is that Ward is not willing to travel for Froch, it's that he doesn't seem to be willing to travel for anybody AND he doesn't seem to be up for doing anything to establish himself (Why is he not calling out other fighters then)

It's a big shame as he's a massive talent and to be honest, think if he retired tomorrow a lot of the boxing world would go meh!!!!!!!

For Truss

If the shoe fits, you hold you yankee brethren up to different standards than other nationalities (See GGG, Klitschko, Frampton (who is still establishing himself), Kovalev), it's been shown time and time again with you admitting near the start of this very thread that you hold Klit different to Ward.

As it stands, it is the epitome of bias.

Yank this..............Yank that...............

No I have more respect for a guy who beat three future titlists...cleaned out 168... and beat the number 1 guy at the weight above....than you...

How many non-great fighters have done that in the last thirty odd years ???

Calling him a runner because he won't fight a guy he shut out..............to me is crazy..

For me it's common sense thinking..............To you it's having an agenda.............

Captain, Rowley, Chris, Hammer all seem to be on Ward's side.......................

Give it up..

Ward v Kovalev in Vegas at catchweight is one of the best fights out there for me

Think he needs a tuneup first though before jumping in the ring with that Russian wrecking bomb

Steffan wrote:Ward v Kovalev in Vegas at catchweight is one of the best fights out there for me

Think he needs a tuneup first though before jumping in the ring with that Russian wrecking bomb

One dimensional guy with a dig........

Spinks would have played with him..

No chance Truss, If well just agreed on the same then it would be boring.

I'll use American if you like. You have a bias towards the American fighters which can be seen just by looking through this thread. You judge an American completely different than you judge fighters of a different nationality.

Wards not a runner, he's at the moment a wasted talent who seems happier sat on his backside doing nothing.

He has a very good win against Chad Dawson (who then immediately plummeted to journeyman status (in your thinking), he also didn't beat him at the optimum weight nor fought him near that. If that would have been GGG against Dawson you would be using that exact argument to lambast him.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Steffan wrote:Ward v Kovalev in Vegas at catchweight is one of the best fights out there for me

Think he needs a tuneup first though before jumping in the ring with that Russian wrecking bomb

One dimensional guy with a dig........

Spinks would have played with him..

Truss missing out on the subtleties of Kovalev s work.

Coxy001 wrote:ROI = Sweet FA

Potential ROI = They sell Ward's couch, TV and coffee table from his lounge to fill it with the few of his loyal fans. That is unless of course Truss goes at which point it's a one man audience, would lose money though on him having to take up three seats on an airplane and to get a heavy duty crane to lift him in!

Don't give up the day job...

Derbymanc wrote:No chance Truss,  If well just agreed on the same then it would be boring.

I'll use American if you like. You have a bias towards the American fighters which can be seen just by looking through this thread. You judge an American completely different than you judge fighters of a different nationality.

Wards not a runner, he's at the moment a wasted talent who seems happier sat on his backside doing nothing.

He has a very good win against Chad Dawson (who then immediately plummeted to journeyman status (in your thinking), he also didn't beat him at the optimum weight nor fought him near that. If that would have been GGG against Dawson you would be using that exact argument to lambast him.

I imagine I am biased to a certain extent.................Just like many on here are biased to European fighters........

But when I say a guy is one of the few boxers to clean out a division and then go on and beat the main man from the division above in the last 30 years..

You tell me why being American has anything to do with stating facts ???.........

You have all the most knowledgeable posters on here opposing your argument....

just chucking Yank in the mix doesn't hold water !!!..............Smokescreening ain't going to cover up the cracks Mate..

Nope, you've got them saying Ward deserves a break with regards to fighting Froch. Something I don't totally disagree with but as (think it was Rowley) said, would be nice to see a real talent come over here.

As for Ward beating the number 1 Light Heavy, we're always going to disagree on that due to the weight it was fought at.

Think you should judge fighters the same, for example why is Ward given a pass when you state GGG and Kovalev (and Frampton) haven't done enough.

Derbymanc wrote:Think you should judge fighters the same, for example why is Ward given a pass when you state GGG and Kovalev (and Frampton) haven't done enough.

Have you compared their CVs?

No, just the attitudes Scott.

Derbymanc wrote:No, just the attitudes Scott.

Well that's it then.............

Ward fights better fighters but his attitude isn't as good........

why didn't you just say so...

I have done, what did you think I was saying?

Dawson was weight drained in that fight though Truss, I remember some using that argument when he stepped back up and get destroyed by Stevenson in his next fight. So if he was weight drained that fight can be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

Didn't Dawson also lose to Pascal? Hardly "the man" at the weight was he now?

hampo171 wrote:Dawson was weight drained in that fight though Truss, I remember some using that argument when he stepped back up and get destroyed by Stevenson in his next fight. So if he was weight drained that fight can be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

Fighter loses and has an excuse.............Stop the presses..

Coxy001 wrote:Didn't Dawson also lose to Pascal? Hardly "the man" at the weight was he now?

He was the universally recognised man at the weight and Ring titlist when Ward fought him. Pascal had lost to Hopkins, who Dawson beat, before Ward faced Dawson. Don't try and rewrite history.

Put whatever asterixes you wish agains the Dawson win but it does not diminish what Ward achieved at supermiddle one iota where he proved in about as emphatic a style as you are likely to see these days that he is the man at that weight. His inactivity is a huge frustration, but he seems clear of the causes of that and as such surely has enough in the plus column to deserve a bit of breathing space firstly and a bit more respect than he is getting secondly.

Rowley wrote:Put whatever asterixes you wish agains the Dawson win but it does not diminish what Ward achieved at supermiddle one iota where he proved in about as emphatic a style as you are likely to see these days that he is the man at that weight. His inactivity is a huge frustration, but he seems clear of the causes of that and as such surely has enough in the plus column to deserve a bit of breathing space firstly and a bit more respect than he is getting secondly.

Absolutely..............Think this thread has run it's course.......

Will say I find it perverse how a guy thinks a Brit posting about an American is any more objective............than an American posting about one...

That's a good one that !!

Scottrf wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:Didn't Dawson also lose to Pascal? Hardly "the man" at the weight was he now?

He was the universally recognised man at the weight and Ring titlist when Ward fought him. Pascal had lost to Hopkins, who Dawson beat, before Ward faced Dawson. Don't try and rewrite history.

Ward fought him at 168. Which isn't LHW.

Since he "stepped up" in class (arguably from Pascal onwards) he's 3-1-4. That's history that's not being re-written.

And on the above, I wouldn't call Tarver/Johnson stand out LHW fighters. Latter was in his pomp in the early 00s and the latter was about 400 years old.

3-1-4. End of.

Because I try and judge the fighters the same, not on the country they're from.

If Ward can't find the challenges at Super middle then i'd like to see him move up and prove his mettle at the next weight (I'd like to see GGG do the same if can't find a challenge either.)

We won't really know anything though until his opponent after the next one (he does deserve a tune up regardless of what the network says.)

Coxy001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Coxy001 wrote:Didn't Dawson also lose to Pascal? Hardly "the man" at the weight was he now?

He was the universally recognised man at the weight and Ring titlist when Ward fought him. Pascal had lost to Hopkins, who Dawson beat, before Ward faced Dawson. Don't try and rewrite history.

Ward fought him at 168. Which isn't LHW.

Since he "stepped up" in class (arguably from Pascal onwards) he's 3-1-4. That's history that's not being re-written.

And on the above, I wouldn't call Tarver/Johnson stand out LHW fighters. Latter was in his pomp in the early 00s and the latter was about 400 years old.

3-1-4. End of.

That's a different point, and not what you were talking about.

Bottom line is Dawson was weight drained for Ward.

And that's the concensus...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Steffan wrote:Ward v Kovalev in Vegas at catchweight is one of the best fights out there for me

Think he needs a tuneup first though before jumping in the ring with that Russian wrecking bomb

One dimensional guy with a dig........

Spinks would have played with him..

Yet these North American stars you love so much are petrified and won't go near him....

Herman Jaggery wrote:Bottom line is Dawson was weight drained for Ward.

And that's the concensus...

You should tell Dawson to join the consensus.

"Training is going good. I am already down to 178 pounds. 175 isn't my real weight. I don't have to diet to make weight...I feel faster and stronger at the weight."

http://www.boxingscene.com/chad-dawson-down-178-expects-no-weight-issues--56117

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hampo171 wrote:Dawson was weight drained in that fight though Truss, I remember some using that argument when he stepped back up and get destroyed by Stevenson in his next fight. So if he was weight drained that fight can be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

Fighter loses and has an excuse.............Stop the presses..

I never said Dawson used it as an excuse, I said some fans used it as a reason to talk down Stevensons win.

Scottrf wrote:

Herman Jaggery wrote:Bottom line is Dawson was weight drained for Ward.

And that's the concensus...

You should tell Dawson to join the consensus.

"Training is going good. I am already down to 178 pounds. 175 isn't my real weight. I don't have to diet to make weight...I feel faster and stronger at the weight."

http://www.boxingscene.com/chad-dawson-down-178-expects-no-weight-issues--56117

Hatton also said that the Pacquiao camp was his best ever.

Yet got spanked.

Then said it was the worse camp ever.

And your point is?

Coxy001 wrote:Hatton also said that the Pacquiao camp was his best ever.

Yet got spanked.

Then said it was the worse camp ever.

And your point is?

I shouldn't have to explain Geoff. I think that writing it off due to weight (even if it wasn't the most comfortable for Dawson) is doing Ward too much of a disservice.

What the hell's he going to say before a fight???

It's hard getting down to super middle and it's really putting a strain on me. But I've signed the contract now and anyway I get to keep my light heavy title.

Dear oh dear.

You're on the losing argument yet it was you the one who patronised me.

And now it's difficult to admit you are in the wrong...

Herman Jaggery wrote:What the hell's he going to say before a fight???

What the hell are people going to say after the fight???

If he drops down and is completely comfortable and loses, the same would be said.