Super Saturday, Game 2: Scotland v Ireland

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SCOTLAND v IRELAND
Saturday 21 March 2015
KO: 14:30
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
AR1: Pascal Gauzere (FFR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

***********************

A. Teams

SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby)
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors)
09 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester)

01 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
02 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
03 Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors)
04 Jim Hamilton (Saracens)
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
06 Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors)
07 Blair Cowan (London Irish)
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby)
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish)
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors)
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby)
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby)
23 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13 Jared Payne (Ulster)
12 Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11 Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)
10 Johnny Sexton (Racing Metro)
09 Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)

01 Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
02 Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
03 Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
04 Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
05 Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) captain
06 Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
07 Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
08 Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

16 Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
18 Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
19 Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
20 Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
22 Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23 Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

B. Head to Head

119 Played 119

58 Wins 56

56 Losses 58

5 Draws 5

187 Tries 200

96 Conversions 102

128 Penalties 104

32 Drop Goals 15

1,234 Points 1,301

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I certainly don't think Ireland will find too much trouble going forward. If Ireland kick as well as they did against England and we field said kicks as badly as we did against Wales this could be a disaster.

However I think we will do well with the ball in hand. Denton, Ashe, Ford and Gray will all carry with some impetus. It's just a question of whether or not our forwards can recycle the ball quick enough so we can spin it out to the danger men out wide.

My opinion, Ireland by 5.

This is what concerns me about Scotland, if these players start getting the momentum and start to dominate Irelands back row then Ireland could have a difficult time of it. Scotland have shown some very good attacking plays so far but have seriously fluffed loads so if these lads dominate with the ball in hand, it could certainly open Ireland up.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I certainly don't think Ireland will find too much trouble going forward. If Ireland kick as well as they did against England and we field said kicks as badly as we did against Wales this could be a disaster.

However I think we will do well with the ball in hand. Denton, Ashe, Ford and Gray will all carry with some impetus. It's just a question of whether or not our forwards can recycle the ball quick enough so we can spin it out to the danger men out wide.

My opinion, Ireland by 5.

Scotland do look much more dangerous in - can I say it? - conventional attack play.  Ireland to this point look lethargic strategically at that game.  They just don't set themselves up for it and certainly don't offload in the right areas to make it incisive.
So Scotland will have a purple patch for sure.  It's how productive they get to be using it.  I think Cotter will have looked at Wales and (apart from Barnes and his whistle) there is still ways of getting Ireland out of a comfort zone.  But it takes a tremendous effort - as the Welsh coaching unit and players all attested to.  I think it was Edwards who was telling them in advance what it was going to take and the tackle rate and success levels it would take from each and every player.

Ireland pride themselves on their tackle rate but you really do have to take an opponent's 'best' parts and try to give it back to them in buckets to unsettle them.  Wales accomplished that in tackle count and kick chasing.

Scotland should not try to be too inventive but just prepare to do a long hard shift of 'pragmatism'.  Then if they're still in the game, and no reason why they shouldn't be, then they might think of running  a few and see what happens.  

But I guess the key to beating Ireland at the moment is Out-working them, putting in the puff and seeing what happens.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I certainly don't think Ireland will find too much trouble going forward. If Ireland kick as well as they did against England and we field said kicks as badly as we did against Wales this could be a disaster.

However I think we will do well with the ball in hand. Denton, Ashe, Ford and Gray will all carry with some impetus. It's just a question of whether or not our forwards can recycle the ball quick enough so we can spin it out to the danger men out wide.

My opinion, Ireland by 5.

This is what concerns me about Scotland, if these players start getting the momentum and start to dominate Irelands back row then Ireland could have a difficult time of it. Scotland have shown some very good attacking plays so far but have seriously fluffed loads so if these lads dominate with the ball in hand, it could certainly open Ireland up.

Our pack couldn't dominate a wet tissue paper at the moment! I can't recall a single game this 6N where we have won the battle upfront. Our line out is very strong though.

POM, Heaslip and SOB are a fantastic balanced unit who WILL dominate Scotland and the breakdown on Saturday. We will carry well I think but the ball will be so slow Laidlaw will again have very little options when going forward against an organised Irish defence.

See, some of that is crazy talk. The stuff about BOD and Kidney and the Leinster supporters- all of that is balls out insane. Same thing with our old friend Carlos Spencer. And the redefining the goals of the time to make Kidney look better is revisionism; he was trying to refresh the squad, change the style of play and most of all do what all international coaches are responsible for- winning games. He managed one of those things. He bit off more than he could chew I think. Changed the team and the game plan at the same time. He moved away from the game plan he was best at implementing and he had no clear idea of how Ireland should play. Players lost confidence because they didn't know their roles. With changes in personnel, no-one knowing who was first choice in the halfbacks and changes in game plan the atmosphere gradually soured. Not replacing Gaffney after the World Cup was the final straw. He flopped, it's over. Irrelevant to the present.

Other stuff is just factually wrong like the stuff about Tuohy being injured (he was, he's in the wider training squad but probably not yet fit enough) and Payne not making yards in contact (only player in the back line who is).

Then there's stuff about Best and Cronin needing dropped- the lineout has actually been very good under Schmidt with Best. Last week a few poor throws. Then you have what he offers in every other area which is better than his competition. So you balance what Best and Cronin bring against their weaknesses and the weaknesses of their competitors and they win out. Let's say Strauss comes in and improves the lineout; is he as good in the scrum, is he a leader, is he an extra back rower, is he one of our top tacklers etc. etc.

Zebo's only problem is that he plays in the most competitive position on the pitch. When you look at Zebo, Dave Kearney and Luke Fitzgerald they are all much of a muchness. If we had another hooker who was as good all round as Best we might see a change. Some positions just have more depth than others.

I don't see this as being dramatic as I'm fairly sure Zebo will be in and around the squad in the World Cup and will win loads more caps. Trimble has been dropped many times, some when he was poor and other times with little reason. Bowe was the same early in his career. This will do Zebo's Ireland career no harm at all.

I'll say it again, I think he can attack better from fullback. That extra bit of space and time on the ball could be very conducive to getting him into the game.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I certainly don't think Ireland will find too much trouble going forward. If Ireland kick as well as they did against England and we field said kicks as badly as we did against Wales this could be a disaster.

However I think we will do well with the ball in hand. Denton, Ashe, Ford and Gray will all carry with some impetus. It's just a question of whether or not our forwards can recycle the ball quick enough so we can spin it out to the danger men out wide.

My opinion, Ireland by 5.

This is what concerns me about Scotland, if these players start getting the momentum and start to dominate Irelands back row then Ireland could have a difficult time of it. Scotland have shown some very good attacking plays so far but have seriously fluffed loads so if these lads dominate with the ball in hand, it could certainly open Ireland up.

Our pack couldn't dominate a wet tissue paper at the moment! I can't recall a single game this 6N where we have won the battle upfront. Our line out is very strong though.

POM, Heaslip and SOB are a fantastic balanced unit who WILL dominate Scotland and the breakdown on Saturday. We will carry well I think but the ball will be so slow Laidlaw will again have very little options when going forward against an organised Irish defence.

Heaslip and SOB are not in the best of form as was highlighted by their performance against Wales, Cotter will know this and I think will set a plan in place to put them under pressure.

I'm sure he will but whilst Ashe and Denton are good carriers and Cowan is a nuisance, their back row as a unit just doesn't have the same stature as the Welsh unit. They're still capable of causing us problems and still capable of good performances but there is less experience there. A rookie 8 at blindside might help Ireland cover a multitude of sins.

I read the ROG column. I agree with him on 90% of what he says. He's right about Zebo- he has proven he is international class and he will be back. I'm very pleased about one aspect of the selection and that is that it will force Zebo to come back with a point to prove in the summer. Nothing better than a Munster player with a chip on their shoulder to raise competition for places within the squad. I agree with him that Best, Sexton, Heaslip etc. will improve this week. Though I'm slightly concerned about Kearney and O'Brien. I expect Heaslip to have a big game in particular.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

He was very subtle - he said Rory Best has the ability to come back from a bad day out! (That will get the Ulstermen hot under the collar!).

Yet nobody anywhere on the planet seems to want to give Cronin a start.  I'll tell you, the guy will have grey whiskers and arthritis and he'll still be sitting on a bench waiting for his 15 minutes of so of 'explosiveness'.

So Zebo ain't the only guy who should be feeling sorry for himself.  Join the queue Zeebs, at least a coach put enough faith in you as a man to actually let you start a few big games.

Cronin is in the 23. Thats what counts.

I just don't get this whole thing about Schmidt and giving playes work-ons - how come Cronin hasn't sorted his throwing and hooking. He was coached by Schmidt long enough.

He's still working on the curly red hair. He was told to lose it. So it's straighteners or shaved as his only option but he resists coz his mammy loves the little red curls.

Schmidt is a hateful man applying such psychological pressure..

jimbopip wrote:Wolfball...Love the user name. You can't get enough references to Hilary Mantell on this forum in my opinion.

Haha, cheers, wish it was that clever; when playing junior for Ballinrobe I was nicknamed Wolf (lack of razors in Mayo) and Wolf Ball was me crashing off the 9...

Notch wrote:See, some of that is crazy talk. The stuff about BOD and Kidney and the Leinster supporters- all of that is balls out insane.

O'Driscoll said in interview that he learned nothing from Kidney when he was coach - he then went onto praise every Leinster coach he ever had. BOD was seriously peed off that he was dropped at captain (or that his captaincy was even questioned). Most captains wait to be asked, not expecting to be. BOD had to decide himself he didn't want the Irish captaincy anymore.

Same thing with our old friend Carlos Spencer.

Lots of articles in the New Zealand press about it. Apparently Schmidt is detested by Blues fans. Why do you think he ended up in Clermont - he was going no where in New Zealand rugby.

And the redefining the goals of the time to make Kidney look better is revisionism; he was trying to refresh the squad, change the style of play and most of all do what all international coaches are responsible for- winning games. He managed one of those things. He bit off more than he could chew I think.

He was killed by injuries, particularly to Paul O'Connell. Without POC, there is no leadership in that group no matter how many times they try and tell us about all the leaders in the group. I'm not sure who they are trying to convince, but they shouldn't have to keep telling us that there are.

I'd imagine Schmidt will quickly hightail it out of the place when POC retires so as he can hang onto his reputation.

Changed the team and the game plan at the same time. He moved away from the game plan he was best at implementing and he had no clear idea of how Ireland should play. Players lost confidence because they didn't know their roles. With changes in personnel, no-one knowing who was first choice in the halfbacks and changes in game plan the atmosphere gradually soured. Not replacing Gaffney after the World Cup was the final straw. He flopped, it's over. Irrelevant to the present.

Les Kiss was the backs coach. His backs got to score tries, unlike the present team. I doubt if it was Kidney's decision not to get a new backs/defence coach - far more likely the IRFU cutting costs.

Kidney always showed great ability to move with the times ... for example, how Munster played up to 2006 and how they played after 2006. He brought in people to do his coaching. One thing though, his teams were well able to score tries, unlike the present lot.

Other stuff is just factually wrong like the stuff about Tuohy being injured (he was, he's in the wider training squad but probably not yet fit enough) and Payne not making yards in contact (only player in the back line who is).

A bit pedantic about Tuohy. He wouldn't be starting anyway because Best needs a 5'11'' target if we want any semblance of a workable lineout.

Then there's stuff about Best and Cronin needing dropped- the lineout has actually been very good under Schmidt with Best. Last week a few poor throws. Then you have what he offers in every other area which is better than his competition. So you balance what Best and Cronin bring against their weaknesses and the weaknesses of their competitors and they win out. Let's say Strauss comes in and improves the lineout; is he as good in the scrum, is he a leader, is he an extra back rower, is he one of our top tacklers etc. etc.

You missed my main point here - Duncan Casey (who is the best hooker in the country with the basics of what a hooker does) should be in the squad. I did not say he should be starting. Maybe he might push Best and Cronin to get their act together with regard to their throwing. As of now, they know Schmidt's selections will most cover for their defincies.

Zebo's only problem is that he plays in the most competitive position on the pitch. When you look at Zebo, Dave Kearney and Luke Fitzgerald they are all much of a muchness. If we had another hooker who was as good all round as Best we might see a change. Some positions just have more depth than others.

Zebo's problem is he isn't a centre who is needed to cover up for the defencies of the present defensive midfield.

I don't see this as being dramatic as I'm fairly sure Zebo will be in and around the squad in the World Cup and will win loads more caps. Trimble has been dropped many times, some when he was poor and other times with little reason. Bowe was the same early in his career. This will do Zebo's Ireland career no harm at all.

Not according to Ronan O'Gara. The difference is that Bowe had lots of stuff to work on (or so he said himself). Zebo did the work he was asked to do at the expense of what he is really good at and then he was dropped for doing it. It probably won't do his career any harm as most coaches will be scratching their head as to why he was dropped in the first place.

I'll say it again, I think he can attack better from fullback. That extra bit of space and time on the ball could be very conducive to getting him into the game.

There isn't a hope in hell that Kearney will be dropped for an attacking fullback. Schmidt is ignore Payne already.

why have 1 mad post when you can have 2...

Jesus - long posts lads. Me scroll bar is busted trying to keep up

Sin, let me get this straight.

leinster, schmidt = bad

munster, kidney = good??

BOD = pre-madonna

POC = greatest Irishman/human/living organism to grace a rugby field

not a bad shot at it Goon. But of course you mischievously underrate POC.

the-goon wrote:Sin, let me get this straight.

leinster, schmidt = bad

munster, kidney = good??

BOD = pre-madonna

POC = greatest Irishman/human/living organism to grace a rugby field

Why have you put Schmidt and Leinster together? Isn't he the Ireland coach now?

Kidney hasn't coached Munster since 2008. Get over it.

BOD is fine - he just didn't like Kidney (probably down to him making an ass of himself as a young fellow when he said he learned nothing from Kidney - which was clear he didn't learn humility).

What do you think of POC?

SecretFly wrote:Jesus - long posts lads.  Me scroll bar is busted trying to keep up

You are one to talk

Ha! Ha! Knew someone would shoot that across me stern.

But I have to be long, Sin - it's in me 606 contract, because I'm so intellygent that wot people like hearing me waffle about things and stuff!!!

SecretFly wrote:Ha! Ha!    Knew someone would shoot that across me stern.

But I have to be long, Sin - it's in me 606 contract, because I'm so intellygent that wot people like hearing me waffle about things and stuff!!!

Lets face it - you are just looking for attention. You don't like that Notch and I have out lengthened your posts here and you can't keep up

Yeah, yis are eating up me Walsh Me Me space!

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

He was very subtle - he said Rory Best has the ability to come back from a bad day out! (That will get the Ulstermen hot under the collar!).

Yet nobody anywhere on the planet seems to want to give Cronin a start.  I'll tell you, the guy will have grey whiskers and arthritis and he'll still be sitting on a bench waiting for his 15 minutes of so of 'explosiveness'.

So Zebo ain't the only guy who should be feeling sorry for himself.  Join the queue Zeebs, at least a coach put enough faith in you as a man to actually let you start a few big games.

Cronin is in the 23. Thats what counts.

I just don't get this whole thing about Schmidt and giving playes work-ons - how come Cronin hasn't sorted his throwing and hooking. He was coached by Schmidt long enough.

Because he's legitimately bad at throwing...seen the slick hoop yokes on sticks they use in training? - they obviously work on it, they're a professional team Regardless, his throwing has improved since he was first capped, it used to be diabolical.  

Also - stop bringing up Carlos Spencer for god's sake it's irrelevant, it has long been your go to "insert proof Joe Schmidt is inadequate, with an undertone of Kidney being better than most people thought he was" innuendo.  

I haven't missed your point about Duncan Casey at all. I'm only referring to players with legitimate hopes of playing international rugby before the World Cup. There's two other hookers been capped for Ireland ahead of him in the last year outside of Cronin and Best. A couple of injuries and he'll be in the frame for the extended 40-man group though.

I'm sure if he was called up, Ireland's most capped hooker ever might start to think 'Jeez-oh, better start practicing the auld throwing now this other guy is on the scene. Maybe I'll start doing some drills or something"

Just saw a clip of the Irish team playing their game of 'walking rugby' during the Captain's Run on the news.

Good man POC, invented a new version of rugby. They all seemed to be having a ball - Zebo most of all! Sin are you listening? He's okay. He's in good form.

Surprised so little mentioned of the Cotter factor. Will he have the tactics to outflank Schmidt?

Whatever about the relative positions of these 2 sides, on paper Ireland have one of the weaker starting XV's in the tournament, hence the under-appreciation of what Joe has achieved in such a short space of time is laughable.

Scotland are definitely capable of winning if Cotter has the inside track on Joe's tactics.

rodders wrote:Whatever about the relative positions of these 2 sides, on paper Ireland have one of the weaker starting XV's in the tournament, hence the under-appreciation of what Joe has achieved in such a short space of time is laughable.

We all talked for years about what might happen when we lost the D'Arcy-BOD axis in our midfield, always agreed it was going to be problematic to replace it, yet in the first season since we have people expecting flowing rugby from the outset. It takes time, but chopping and changing just prolongs the amount of time its going to take. We're in an awkward transition phase waiting for players like Stuart Olding and Robbie Henshaw to come through and dealing with the retirement and chronic loss of form of the old guard. Luke Marshalls problems with injury and form make it harder since a lot of time was invested in him. I'm pretty confident that the centres we have now are developing a good rapport and we will see Henshaw move out for one of the Ulster 12s eventually.

We certainly have a very weak pack in terms of ball carrying, but strong in the set piece and at the breakdown. A back line whose central units are still starting to gel. Only area of real, genuine strength is the halfbacks.

I think Schmidt has done a great job of devising a game plan which plays to our current strengths.

These Italy u20 are giving Wales a real game.

..... but back to Ireland. We'll see tomorrow how limited we are with the new guys - at centre etc. Because tomorrow we have to chase the game from the start. NOT chase it in practical terms from the start (though I wouldn't bet against it), but it is a game that will require more than a win. So we'll see how much Schmidt has been holding back the creative spirit of the players - or whether we truly are still struggling hard to find replacements for the old guard.

SecretFly wrote:These Italy u20 are giving Wales a real game.  

..... but back to Ireland.  We'll see tomorrow how limited we are with the new guys - at centre etc.  Because tomorrow we have to chase the game from the start.  NOT chase it in practical terms from the start (though I wouldn't bet against it), but it is a game that will require more than a win.  So we'll see how much Schmidt has been holding back the creative spirit of the players - or whether we truly are still struggling hard to find replacements for the old guard.

You know Fly, I really don't buy into this whole theory that Henshaw and Payne may not be working well together in attack due to unfamiliarity. They are familiar enough to have put in some very good defensive efforts this 6N. I still very much feel that it is the negative tactics of Schmidt, well the no risk tactics anyways. Both players are very gifted and attack orientated and if they were drilled in an expansive game plan together then they would certainly have a very good understanding already.

I truly hope that Ireland push the game tomorrow and go for the 6N and not simply go with the 'a win is a win' approach.

Nachos, well, I agree that the 'unfamiliarity' thing isn't a major issue in my opinion.  I'm reflecting on the concept that is out there amongst some that it still is.  

I'm saying if it's true that things still aren't working there then tomorrow will tell us, because Schmidt must have given a degree of licence to them to break out if they can to free up space and give more tempo to our game.  He's a smart enough coach to realise 'winning is enough' won't do it for many Irish fans - and he keeps mentioning the need to keep Irish fans on board.  There is a prize available - people will appreciate a failure to do that if they at least see an honest effort to accomplish it.  

Being hungry and ambitious is part of the battle of playing well AND improving form.  If you are under orders to be 'cautious' then that does impede your instincts somewhat as it is bound to affect the pace we bring to a game.  So what I'm saying is we'll see how genuinely confident Ireland are behind the 'limited' game they've tried to use so far.

I really do hope that Ireland pull something off tomorrow Fly. Normally I would take any win but there is a 6N titel to defend and I believe that Ireland should really go for it from the off.

the-goon wrote:Sin, let me get this straight.

leinster, schmidt = bad

munster, kidney = good??

BOD = pre-madonna

POC = greatest Irishman/human/living organism to grace a rugby field

Bod = pre-Madonna? What has Drico got to do with pop music?

I'm just curious as to when the game plan will change- I would say in most of our most attacking displays, we have played a conservative game in the first half to wear them down then changed tactics in the final quarter. If Ireland do set a good target I bet the tries mainly come after 60 minutes, and they will aim for an increase in tempo then too. The only game where we have gone for all-out attack in the first half from the first whistle is the All Blacks game in 2013.

About the centres I should elaborate a little; I don't think that the players are totally unfamiliar with each other any more, they are building a nice rapport in defence and showing signs of promise in attack, but I do think they have a long way to go to match the way the Leinster 10-12-13 knew each others games inside out. It will take a long time to get a back line which has that level of familiarity. I'm talking about this in the context of the extremely elaborate and ambitious set plays in the backs executed by Leinster and at times in the first year of Ireland under Schmidt. I'm not surprised that Schmidt has used less complex attacking plays while the new centres are bedding in.

The new centres are not strangers to each other, but when Schmidt was at Leinster he was able to design plays knowing they had more time to practice them and the players in the spine of their back line had a near-telepathic appreciation of where their teammates were going to be. He built on that foundation in his first year in the job. He's been mainly concerned with the back line getting all their basics sorted this year.

GunsGerms wrote:

the-goon wrote:Sin, let me get this straight.

leinster, schmidt = bad

munster, kidney = good??

BOD = pre-madonna

POC = greatest Irishman/human/living organism to grace a rugby field

Bod = pre-Madonna? What has Drico got to do with pop music?

Oh dear.

is there anywhere you can keep up to date with scores in the u20 Ireland v Scotland game???

It seems it's not being televised anywhere? And that bullschit Six Nation site is a waste of time - if it has a live update section I can certainly never f**king find it!

Primadonna- the leading female singer in an opera company, often known for their demanding behaviour. Shorthand for anyone who is being demanding/temperamental or who has an inflated view of their own performance and a big ego.

Pre-Madonna- pop music before the career of Madonna?

A bit of craic here;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31964196

SecretFly wrote:is there anywhere you can keep up to date with scores in the u20 Ireland v Scotland game???

It seems it's not being televised anywhere?  And that bullschit Six Nation site is a waste of time - if it has a live update section I can certainly never f**king find it!

The SRU twitter account provides updates every few minutes - 12-10 to Scotland with 20 to go. Scotland were 12-0 up after 20 minutes, but Ireland have fought back.

Scottish White Line Fever wrote:

SecretFly wrote:is there anywhere you can keep up to date with scores in the u20 Ireland v Scotland game???

It seems it's not being televised anywhere?  And that bullschit Six Nation site is a waste of time - if it has a live update section I can certainly never f**king find it!

The SRU twitter account provides updates every few minutes - 12-10 to Scotland with 20 to go. Scotland were 12-0 up after 20 minutes, but Ireland have fought back.

Thanks Fever. Shame BBC Scotland didn't cover it on 1 or 2

SecretFly wrote:

Scottish White Line Fever wrote:

SecretFly wrote:is there anywhere you can keep up to date with scores in the u20 Ireland v Scotland game???

It seems it's not being televised anywhere?  And that bullschit Six Nation site is a waste of time - if it has a live update section I can certainly never f**king find it!

The SRU twitter account provides updates every few minutes - 12-10 to Scotland with 20 to go. Scotland were 12-0 up after 20 minutes, but Ireland have fought back.

Thanks Fever.  Shame BBC Scotland didn't cover it on 1 or 2

Very true, or even BBC Alba could have shown it. The SRU will put up a highlights package of the match next week apparently. Are there many prospects in the Irish U20s who are expected to break through at the provinces over the next couple of years?

Gary Ringrose maybe, Lorcan Dow maybe, doesn't seem like our best crop of players

Great win for the under 20s!

3 wins at this level is practically unheard of!

Yeah, seems to have been a good win for the Scottish U20s.  Ireland seems to have started brightly and gradually faded through all five games.

Points scored:

47
37
14
12
10

At least it was a consistent unwind!

SecretFly wrote:Yeah, seems to have been a good win for the Scottish U20s.  Ireland seems to have started brightly and gradually faded through all five games.

Points scored:

47
37
14
12
10

At least it was a consistent unwind!

After the first two games, Schmidt started to take an interest in the U20 team and instructed them on the benefits of 'safety first' rugby

That must be it, Nachos. But at least he brought a high degree of consistency to the freefall in results. Mathematical precision.

Notch wrote:Gary Ringrose maybe, Lorcan Dow maybe, doesn't seem like our best crop of players

Ross Byrne and Billy Dardis would be fairly highly thought of in Leinster too.I'm not sure about the forwards,it's been a weird tournament where they started off brilliantly and just seem to have faded as it's gone on.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Notch wrote:Gary Ringrose maybe, Lorcan Dow maybe, doesn't seem like our best crop of players

Ross Byrne and Billy Dardis would be fairly highly thought of in Leinster too.I'm not sure about the forwards,it's been a weird tournament where they started off brilliantly and just seem to have faded as it's gone on.

I think it was expressed at the beginning that it's very much considered a player finding process. I don't know how that pans out. I didn't see all of the games. But it seems being competitive for the duration wasn't exactly one of the priorities. It certainly panned out that way! Hopefully they've learned some of what they say they were looking for. We seem to operate on a different planet to other sides sometimes in terms of what we seek and how we go about getting it.

SecretFly wrote:

I think it was expressed at the beginning that it's very much considered a player finding process.  I don't know how that pans out.  I didn't see all of the games.  But it seems being competitive for the duration wasn't exactly one of the priorities.  It certainly panned out that way!  Hopefully they've learned some of what they say they were looking for.  We seem to operate on a different planet to other sides sometimes in terms of what we seek and how we go about getting it.

I hope we were using it as a building exercise and we'll go all out in the WC.Wales have done this over the last few years where they've had some pretty weak teams and poor results in the 6N but then made semifinals and finals in the WC.

I know... but they've always seemed to have the U20s up to levels we always find it hard to match.... especially the forwards.
We can often do okay - but we're always battling against superior physicality at this level, certainly against the top four or five sides.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Notch wrote:Gary Ringrose maybe, Lorcan Dow maybe, doesn't seem like our best crop of players

Ross Byrne and Billy Dardis would be fairly highly thought of in Leinster too.I'm not sure about the forwards,it's been a weird tournament where they started off brilliantly and just seem to have faded as it's gone on.

Seems like Billy Dardis has been one of the let downs of this tournament, which is a real shame as I know of the high profile he had in Leinster Schools Rugby and the hype around him. Not writing him off yet though.

SecretFly wrote:

I think it was expressed at the beginning that it's very much considered a player finding process.  I don't know how that pans out.  I didn't see all of the games.  But it seems being competitive for the duration wasn't exactly one of the priorities.  It certainly panned out that way!  Hopefully they've learned some of what they say they were looking for.  We seem to operate on a different planet to other sides sometimes in terms of what we seek and how we go about getting it.

They didn't change the team that much though.

Overall there were some strange results. They lost to the Munster U20s (or U21 ?) before the tournament and I think they just about beat a Leinster select.

Interesting reading the history of these two sides is so close. Points scored tries scored etc etc etc.

Not looking forward to this one bit. Lovely day here post-yesterday's apocalyptic solar activity but the Scotland team is very conservative. Frodo apparently cannot be dropped. Fife is dreadful and Jim Hamilton thinks he is the living, walking Messiah of locks. Apparently Johnny Gray is "not the finished article" Well Jim neither are you as you are still a lumbering penalty magnet who never, ever learns.

Some of the nauseating platitudes coming from Frodo are getting to the embarrassing stage (if they were anything other tbh). At least Ashe seems to speak his mind.

Ireland by 15-20