Super Saturday, Game 2: Scotland v Ireland

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SCOTLAND v IRELAND
Saturday 21 March 2015
KO: 14:30
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
AR1: Pascal Gauzere (FFR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

***********************

A. Teams

SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby)
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors)
09 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester)

01 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
02 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
03 Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors)
04 Jim Hamilton (Saracens)
05 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
06 Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors)
07 Blair Cowan (London Irish)
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby)
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish)
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors)
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby)
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby)
23 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13 Jared Payne (Ulster)
12 Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11 Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)
10 Johnny Sexton (Racing Metro)
09 Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)

01 Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
02 Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
03 Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
04 Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
05 Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) captain
06 Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
07 Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
08 Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

16 Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
18 Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
19 Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
20 Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
22 Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23 Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

B. Head to Head

119 Played 119

58 Wins 56

56 Losses 58

5 Draws 5

187 Tries 200

96 Conversions 102

128 Penalties 104

32 Drop Goals 15

1,234 Points 1,301

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Ok, but there are players way out of form. When do you stick with players out of form and when do you select players in form?

TOD and Murphy are in form, have played in this 6N and have actually performed well. What reason are they being benched to accommodate out of form (Injured) SOB and Heaslip? It beggers belief and I am not happy at all about this. As I said, I want Ireland to win but what the hell kind of message is Schmidt sending out to such players like TOD and Murphy?

Why anyone would want to drop Heaslip is a mystery to me. SOB looked bad as he often does when he faces Warburton becuase Warburton was outrageously good. Against France and England SOB ruled the breakdown and cleared out rucks by himself. You dont drop players on the basis of one game particularly when they are as good as SOB.

Personally I think Heaslip at 8, SOB at 6 and TOD at 7 would be our best back row at the moment. That would be exciting to see.

SOB was off after about 20 mins. v England. He didn't play against Italy. TOD was the one 'ruling the breakdown' v England I think you will find.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:Good to see Zebo dropped. Kearney should be as well.

Some weird selections.
No Earls. Felix Jones on the bench, amazing.
Healy not fit, SOB not fit. Heaslip not fully fit.

Personally, I don't think its good to see anyone dropped, particularly if its undeserved.

Just like Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven "Deserves got nothin' to do with it"

Your right - Best, Toner, Bowe & Kearney deserved nothin' either, but they are starting ...

When he was playing he was King. TOD played well too.

GunsGerms wrote:When he was playing he was King. TOD played well too.

cowpat. You don't even remember SOB having to go off against England.

SOB has looked unfit and should never have started against Wales as he never has a good day against them.

The backrow worked a hell of a lot better with POM, TOD & Murphy. Murphy in particular has been excellent.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When he was playing he was King. TOD played well too.

cowpat. You don't even remember SOB having to go off against England.

SOB has looked unfit and should never have started against Wales as he never has a good day against them.

The backrow worked a hell of a lot better with POM, TOD & Murphy. Murphy in particular has been excellent.

Keep your pants on, of course I do. He played a blinder in Sams that night too. He is better than TOD get over it sunshine.

Surely the best backrow balance would be Heaslip, SOB and TOD? Nooooooooooooooooo?

Surprised to see Zebo dropped, but Fitzgerald is no slouch. Looks like a first choice pack to me, with plenty coming off the bench.

I think Scotland are going to suffer on Saturday. My prediction is that Ireland will shade Wales on points difference to the title (although I expect Wales to win handsomely). My hunch is that England will lose to France.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When he was playing he was King. TOD played well too.

cowpat. You don't even remember SOB having to go off against England.

SOB has looked unfit and should never have started against Wales as he never has a good day against them.

The backrow worked a hell of a lot better with POM, TOD & Murphy. Murphy in particular has been excellent.

This, this is exactly how I feel and why I am really peed off at Schmidt. Murphy and TOD have been in better form than Heaslip and SOB and form a very balanced partnership with POM. I am not claiming that when fit and in form, Heaslip and SOB aren't the better options but right now they are not. Extremely poor from Schmidt.

Sin personally finding it extremely hard to get excited about a player who has been perfectly solid but really only flattered to deceive in this tournament being replaced by another player who has a long history of being perfectly solid but only flattering to deceive at this level. Seems to me that Zebo and Fitzgerald are basically interchangeable with each other and Dave Kearney.

I think, in the final balance, whether its Zebo or Fitzgerald makes little to no difference to the Irish team. I'm not opposed to the change; a guy coming in fresh often lifts the team a little bit because all the players around him think "well if yer man can be dropped so can I". And at this stage, Fitzgerald is bound to be a bit fresher.

No, the only thing I am opposed to is not having Zebo on the bench.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Ok, but there are players way out of form. When do you stick with players out of form and when do you select players in form?

TOD and Murphy are in form, have played in this 6N and have actually performed well. What reason are they being benched to accommodate out of form (Injured) SOB and Heaslip? It beggers belief and I am not happy at all about this. As I said, I want Ireland to win but what the hell kind of message is Schmidt sending out to such players like TOD and Murphy?

Why anyone would want to drop Heaslip is a mystery to me. SOB looked bad as he often does when he faces Warburton becuase Warburton was outrageously good. Against France and England SOB ruled the breakdown and cleared out rucks by himself. You dont drop players on the basis of one game particularly when they are as good as SOB.

Personally I think Heaslip at 8, SOB at 6 and TOD at 7 would be our best back row at the moment. That would be exciting to see.

SOB was off after about 20 mins. v England. He didn't play against Italy. TOD was the one 'ruling the breakdown' v England I think you will find.

No you shall not find ! http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-england-rucks-1971929-Mar2015/  According to the stats, it was Murphy ruling the breakdown against England. TOD & Murphy were equal on first arrivals (10- TOD edging it with 1 dominant hit), Murphy had twice the amount of second arrivals (10 v 5), and 8 times the amount of 3rd arrivals (16 v 2).

Regardless I'm not too peeved, SOB and Heaslip are really good. Never liked Fitz, but sure we'll see if he's figured out how to run without falling down on his own accord on Saturday.

Gawd if I was Joe I'd wonder why I even bothered - 10 wins in a row, a 6N title, 3rd in the IRB rankings and a very good possibility retaining the title and its moan moan moan....thats gratitude for you.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When he was playing he was King. TOD played well too.

cowpat. You don't even remember SOB having to go off against England.

SOB has looked unfit and should never have started against Wales as he never has a good day against them.

The backrow worked a hell of a lot better with POM, TOD & Murphy. Murphy in particular has been excellent.

This, this is exactly how I feel and why I am really peed off at Schmidt. Murphy and TOD have been in better form than Heaslip and SOB and form a very balanced partnership with POM. I am not claiming that when fit and in form, Heaslip and SOB aren't the better options but right now they are not. Extremely poor from Schmidt.

Yet POM has probably been our most anonymous backrow, particularly v Wales and has also conceded more penalties than anyone else in the backrow but you arent concerned about him? Bizarre.

rodders wrote:Gawd if I was Joe I'd wonder why I even bothered - 10 wins in a row, a 6N title, 3rd in the IRB rankings and a very good possibility retaining the title and its moan moan moan....thats gratitude for you.

Here here. You lot don't know how lucky you are, and I suspect Ireland will win this regardless which of the plethora of strong back row options you deploy.

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Ok, but there are players way out of form. When do you stick with players out of form and when do you select players in form?

TOD and Murphy are in form, have played in this 6N and have actually performed well. What reason are they being benched to accommodate out of form (Injured) SOB and Heaslip? It beggers belief and I am not happy at all about this. As I said, I want Ireland to win but what the hell kind of message is Schmidt sending out to such players like TOD and Murphy?

Why anyone would want to drop Heaslip is a mystery to me. SOB looked bad as he often does when he faces Warburton becuase Warburton was outrageously good. Against France and England SOB ruled the breakdown and cleared out rucks by himself. You dont drop players on the basis of one game particularly when they are as good as SOB.

Personally I think Heaslip at 8, SOB at 6 and TOD at 7 would be our best back row at the moment. That would be exciting to see.

SOB was off after about 20 mins. v England. He didn't play against Italy. TOD was the one 'ruling the breakdown' v England I think you will find.

No you shall not find ! http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-england-rucks-1971929-Mar2015/  According to the stats, it was Murphy ruling the breakdown against England. TOD & Murphy were equal on first arrivals (10- TOD edging it with 1 dominant hit), Murphy had twice the amount of second arrivals (10 v 5), and 8 times the amount of 3rd arrivals (16 v 2).

Regardless I'm not too peeved, SOB and Heaslip are really good. Never liked Fitz, but sure we'll see if he's figured out how to run without falling down on his own accord on Saturday.

TOD played 20 minutes less than Murphy Of course Murphy was going to get more done. And I did say that Murphy should not have been dropped for a half fit Healisp.

What I was illustrating anyway was that SOB could not possibly have been ruling the roost against England as he wasn't playing.

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:When he was playing he was King. TOD played well too.

cowpat. You don't even remember SOB having to go off against England.

SOB has looked unfit and should never have started against Wales as he never has a good day against them.

The backrow worked a hell of a lot better with POM, TOD & Murphy. Murphy in particular has been excellent.

This, this is exactly how I feel and why I am really peed off at Schmidt. Murphy and TOD have been in better form than Heaslip and SOB and form a very balanced partnership with POM. I am not claiming that when fit and in form, Heaslip and SOB aren't the better options but right now they are not. Extremely poor from Schmidt.

Yet POM has probably been our most anonymous backrow, particularly v Wales and has also conceded more penalties than anyone else in the backrow but you arent concerned about him?

POM had his hands full against Wales trying to cover for SOB and Heaslip due to them being out of form... When bot SOB and Heaslip went off, he looked a lot more effective, coincidence?

Sin é wrote:

kunu wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Ok, but there are players way out of form. When do you stick with players out of form and when do you select players in form?

TOD and Murphy are in form, have played in this 6N and have actually performed well. What reason are they being benched to accommodate out of form (Injured) SOB and Heaslip? It beggers belief and I am not happy at all about this. As I said, I want Ireland to win but what the hell kind of message is Schmidt sending out to such players like TOD and Murphy?

Why anyone would want to drop Heaslip is a mystery to me. SOB looked bad as he often does when he faces Warburton becuase Warburton was outrageously good. Against France and England SOB ruled the breakdown and cleared out rucks by himself. You dont drop players on the basis of one game particularly when they are as good as SOB.

Personally I think Heaslip at 8, SOB at 6 and TOD at 7 would be our best back row at the moment. That would be exciting to see.

SOB was off after about 20 mins. v England. He didn't play against Italy. TOD was the one 'ruling the breakdown' v England I think you will find.

No you shall not find ! http://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-england-rucks-1971929-Mar2015/  According to the stats, it was Murphy ruling the breakdown against England. TOD & Murphy were equal on first arrivals (10- TOD edging it with 1 dominant hit), Murphy had twice the amount of second arrivals (10 v 5), and 8 times the amount of 3rd arrivals (16 v 2).

Regardless I'm not too peeved, SOB and Heaslip are really good. Never liked Fitz, but sure we'll see if he's figured out how to run without falling down on his own accord on Saturday.

TOD played 20 minutes less than Murphy Of course Murphy was going to get more done. And I did say that Murphy should not have been dropped for a half fit Healisp.

What I was illustrating anyway was that SOB could not possibly have been ruling the roost against England as he wasn't playing.

In that case, Murphy had .62 rucking actions per minute of game time, while TOD had .43. Got to hand it to the42, they really go all out with their analysis.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

rodders wrote:Gawd if I was Joe I'd wonder why I even bothered - 10 wins in a row, a 6N title, 3rd in the IRB rankings and a very good possibility retaining the title and its moan moan moan....thats gratitude for you.

Here here. You lot don't know how lucky you are, and I suspect Ireland will win this regardless which of the plethora of strong back row options you deploy.

It does get tedious, all the negativity about selection and tactics...

...but then I don't need to tell Scottish fans about negativity!

Notch wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

rodders wrote:Gawd if I was Joe I'd wonder why I even bothered - 10 wins in a row, a 6N title, 3rd in the IRB rankings and a very good possibility retaining the title and its moan moan moan....thats gratitude for you.

Here here. You lot don't know how lucky you are, and I suspect Ireland will win this regardless which of the plethora of strong back row options you deploy.

It does get tedious, all the negativity about selection and tactics...

...but then I don't need to tell Scottish fans about negativity!

At least we have earned the right to go wide....to go negative

rodders wrote:Gawd if I was Joe I'd wonder why I even bothered - 10 wins in a row, a 6N title, 3rd in the IRB rankings and a very good possibility retaining the title and its moan moan moan....thats gratitude for you.

So am I to take it that you are totally happy with the performances from Ireland this 6N and with the selections?

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

POM had his hands full against Wales trying to cover for SOB and Heaslip due to them being out of form... When bot SOB and Heaslip went off, he looked a lot more effective, coincidence?

Go look up the stats. POM conceded more penalties than SOB and Heaslip, gained way less yards. He also made way less tackles than SOB.

He has a habit of giving away soft penalties. He was definitely our weakest backrow v Wales.

Personally I dont think he is physical enough for a 6.



T/A Tries / Try Assists Pts Points scored
K/P/R Kick / Pass / Run MR Metres Run with ball
CB Clean Breaks DB Defenders Beaten OL OffLoads TO TurnOvers
Tack Tackles made / missed LO LineOuts won on throw / stolen on opp throw
Pen Penalties conceded Y/R Yellow / Red cards

rodders wrote:Gawd if I was Joe I'd wonder why I even bothered - 10 wins in a row, a 6N title, 3rd in the IRB rankings and a very good possibility retaining the title and its moan moan moan....thats gratitude for you.

Kidney's record is pretty good as well - first year 13 wins (including Churchill Cup), 1 loss and 1 draw. And a Grand Slam. IRB Coach of the Year. (I also think we were up there at No. 3 in world rankings).

1 loss to NZ & a draw with Australia. Schmidt lost to both in his first few games.

Yeah, then what happened...

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

POM had his hands full against Wales trying to cover for SOB and Heaslip due to them being out of form... When bot SOB and Heaslip went off, he looked a lot more effective, coincidence?

Go look up the stats. POM conceded more penalties than SOB and Heaslip, gained way less yards. He also made way less tackles than SOB.

He has a habit of giving away soft penalties. He was definitely our weakest backrow v Wales.

Personally I dont think he is physical enough for a 6.



T/A Tries / Try Assists Pts Points scored
K/P/R Kick / Pass / Run MR Metres Run with ball
CB Clean Breaks DB Defenders Beaten OL OffLoads TO TurnOvers
Tack Tackles made / missed LO LineOuts won on throw / stolen on opp throw
Pen Penalties conceded Y/R Yellow / Red cards

One of those penalties was incorrectly given to POM. Barnes wouldn't let him compete at the breakdown. Anyway, Ireland had most the possession so why would he be winning turnovers or making tackles. You may have noted that the Welsh were doing a lot of tackling.

3 less tackles is hardly 'way less'.

I thought POM was superb against England and France, albeit quiet against Wales.

SOB had a good game against France and was genuinely sensational in his 25 minute spell against the English.

Heaslip is another leader who contributes in so many areas and generally makes the team run a lot smoother.

From 1-8 that pack is as good as any in the NH.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

POM had his hands full against Wales trying to cover for SOB and Heaslip due to them being out of form... When bot SOB and Heaslip went off, he looked a lot more effective, coincidence?

Go look up the stats. POM conceded more penalties than SOB and Heaslip, gained way less yards. He also made way less tackles than SOB.

He has a habit of giving away soft penalties. He was definitely our weakest backrow v Wales.

Personally I dont think he is physical enough for a 6.



T/A Tries / Try Assists Pts Points scored
K/P/R Kick / Pass / Run MR Metres Run with ball
CB Clean Breaks DB Defenders Beaten OL OffLoads TO TurnOvers
Tack Tackles made / missed LO LineOuts won on throw / stolen on opp throw
Pen Penalties conceded Y/R Yellow / Red cards

One of those penalties was incorrectly given to POM. Barnes wouldn't let him compete at the breakdown. Anyway, Ireland had most the possession so why would he be winning turnovers or making tackles. You may have noted that the Welsh were doing a lot of tackling.

3 less tackles is hardly 'way less'.

POM was our worst backrow performer v Wales. If you are looking for a backrow scapegoat look no further than him he had a quiet day.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

POM had his hands full against Wales trying to cover for SOB and Heaslip due to them being out of form... When bot SOB and Heaslip went off, he looked a lot more effective, coincidence?

Go look up the stats. POM conceded more penalties than SOB and Heaslip, gained way less yards. He also made way less tackles than SOB.

He has a habit of giving away soft penalties. He was definitely our weakest backrow v Wales.

Personally I dont think he is physical enough for a 6.



T/A Tries / Try Assists Pts Points scored
K/P/R Kick / Pass / Run MR Metres Run with ball
CB Clean Breaks DB Defenders Beaten OL OffLoads TO TurnOvers
Tack Tackles made / missed LO LineOuts won on throw / stolen on opp throw
Pen Penalties conceded Y/R Yellow / Red cards

One of those penalties was incorrectly given to POM. Barnes wouldn't let him compete at the breakdown. Anyway, Ireland had most the possession so why would he be winning turnovers or making tackles. You may have noted that the Welsh were doing a lot of tackling.

3 less tackles is hardly 'way less'.

POM was our worst backrow performer v Wales. If you are looking for a backrow scapegoat look no further than him he had a quiet day.

Interesting then that Wales-on-Line have POM in their team of the tournament up to now (as have numerous non-Irish publications).

Murray & Jack McGrath are the only other Irish players to make the team (which has only 8 Welsh players in it to be fair to them).

Notch wrote:Yeah, then what happened...

Kidney had to start blooding players for the world cup. Something Schmidt doesn't have to do (or isn't doing anyway).

Flip!!!!
This thread has taken off hasn't it?
Who lit the blue touch paper?

Why don't we quit griping amongst one another and wait to see how we fare on super-saturday. Joe knows lads, Joe knows...........

Sin é wrote:

Interesting then that Wales-on-Line have POM in their team of the tournament up to now (as have numerous non-Irish publications).

Murray & Jack McGrath are the only other Irish players to make the team (which has only 8 Welsh players in it to be fair to them).

Probably because like you they think that motoring around with a red face and a look like you are about to get in a fight outside the local chippers equates to top performances. He has played well in fairness at times or even most of the time but all our backrowers have overall including subs.

Lets not forget how good Henderson has been when he comes on too.

Pete330v2 wrote:Flip!!!!
This thread has taken off hasn't it?
Who lit the blue touch paper?

Why don't we quit griping amongst one another and wait to see how we fare on super-saturday. Joe knows lads, Joe knows...........

If we only didn't have to deal with the bolded crap .....

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Interesting then that Wales-on-Line have POM in their team of the tournament up to now (as have numerous non-Irish publications).

Murray & Jack McGrath are the only other Irish players to make the team (which has only 8 Welsh players in it to be fair to them).

Probably because like you they think that motoring around with a red face and a look like you are about to get in a fight outside the local chippers equates to top performances. He has played well in fairness at times but all our backrowers have overall including subs.

Lets not forget how good Henderson has been when he comes on too.

I don't agree. SOB has been crap. Heislip has been crap. That is probably down to them both not being fully fit.

Wales on line noted that POM had 11 lineout takes You missed that stat!

Sin é wrote:

I don't agree. SOB has been crap. Heislip has been crap. That is probably down to them both not being fully fit.

Wales on line noted that POM had 11 lineout takes    You missed that stat!

You are so predictable Sin, you are good value for a laugh anyway.

POM certainly hasnt been any better than anyone else in the backrow. Seriously who cares what Wales on line think? Thats like the Welsh getting upset over Francis' comments.

Does it make you all warm and fuzzy inside when someone from your parish is mentioned on Wales online? Surely you dont believe everything you read in such rags.

Thought this was interesting...

Someone with too much time posting on the Guardian website wrote:
Folks, this isn't on a wind up, and I'm hoping the Irish might be able to help with this one, but I read a stat the other day that, if you rule out the Georgia romp, Tommy O'Donnell's try v Italy was the only try that Ireland have scored that has been directly created from a pass since the start of last year's Autumn Internationals.

I couldn't believe this, so went back and checked and it looks like it's true:

v SA - 2 tries: Rhys Ruddock from a rolling maul and Tommy Bowe from a kick-chase,
v Aus - 2 tries: Simon Zebo from a kick-chase and Tommy Bowe from an intercept,
v Italy - 2 tries: Conor Murray from a pick-and-go and Tommy O'Donnell's lovely try ,
v France - no tries,
v England - 1 try: Robbie Henshaw's from a kick-chase,
v Wales - 1 try: Penalty try from rolling maul.

That's 6 matches and only one try that involved a pass being the "assist". Given the questions that have been asked about Ireland's lack of width v Wales, is this something that the Irish fans are worried about? I remember Joe Schmidt's Leinster having the most beautiful back moves, but was that down to a horses-for-courses mind set and was that because he had BOD and D'Arcy to pick at the time.

Either way, it certainly raises big queries about whether Ireland will be capable of running in enough tries to get the 10 - 15 point winning margin they might need to win the Championship at Murrayfield.

I'll give you a punt for your thoughts.....

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

I don't agree. SOB has been crap. Heislip has been crap. That is probably down to them both not being fully fit.

Wales on line noted that POM had 11 lineout takes    You missed that stat!

You are so predictable Sin, you are good value for a laugh anyway.

POM certainly hasnt been any better than anyone else in the backrow. Seriously who cares what Wales on line think? Thats like the Welsh getting upset over Francis' comments.

Does it make you all warm and fuzzy inside when someone from your parish is mentioned on Wales online? Surely you dont believe everything you read in such rags.

Come off it Guns, being in their Team of the Tournament in a Welsh paper if you are not Welsh is a bigger achievement than being an Irish player in the Team the Irish Times picks.

I'm changing my prediction of Scotland to win by 3 points

to

Scotland to win by 5 points

I'm not really worried about it to be honest. The important thing there is not how the tries are created, but the fact that we haven't been scoring enough since the Italy game. You don't want to be getting by winning games only scoring one try or no tries.

If we were averaging 2 tries a game like we were until the France match I couldn't care less if they were length of the field efforts with twenty passes, interceptions, kick chases or penalty tries. When we won the Slam against Wales in 2009 we didn't score a try from a pass either. Didn't care much then and don't now.

The key for me is frequency not type. I would like to see more incisive back line moves but we aren't creating overlaps or space to run into up front.

cp10 wrote:Thought this was interesting...

Someone with too much time posting on the Guardian website wrote:
Folks, this isn't on a wind up, and I'm hoping the Irish might be able to help with this one, but I read a stat the other day that, if you rule out the Georgia romp, Tommy O'Donnell's try v Italy was the only try that Ireland have scored that has been directly created from a pass since the start of last year's Autumn Internationals.

I couldn't believe this, so went back and checked and it looks like it's true:

v SA - 2 tries: Rhys Ruddock from a rolling maul and Tommy Bowe from a kick-chase,
v Aus - 2 tries: Simon Zebo from a kick-chase and Tommy Bowe from an intercept,
v Italy - 2 tries: Conor Murray from a pick-and-go and Tommy O'Donnell's lovely try ,
v France - no tries,
v England - 1 try: Robbie Henshaw's from a kick-chase,
v Wales - 1 try: Penalty try from rolling maul.

That's 6 matches and only one try that involved a pass being the "assist". Given the questions that have been asked about Ireland's lack of width v Wales, is this something that the Irish fans are worried about? I remember Joe Schmidt's Leinster having the most beautiful back moves, but was that down to a horses-for-courses mind set and was that because he had BOD and D'Arcy to pick at the time.

Either way, it certainly raises big queries about whether Ireland will be capable of running in enough tries to get the 10 - 15 point winning margin they might need to win the Championship at Murrayfield.

I'll give you a punt for your thoughts.....

It is interesting but when you consider that since last years six nations Ireland have had 4 changes to the backs it is understandable that they would take time to gel. I think Schmidt has recognised this and focused on other strengths.

We were top try scorers last year.

Personally I think Dave Kearney was the keystone to all our attacking success last year.

Sin é wrote:

Come off it Guns, being in their Team of the Tournament in a Welsh paper if you are not Welsh is a bigger achievement than being an Irish player in the Team the Irish Times picks.

Yes you should definitely order a copy, frame it and hang it up in the local community centre.

cp10 wrote:Thought this was interesting...

Someone with too much time posting on the Guardian website wrote:
Folks, this isn't on a wind up, and I'm hoping the Irish might be able to help with this one, but I read a stat the other day that, if you rule out the Georgia romp, Tommy O'Donnell's try v Italy was the only try that Ireland have scored that has been directly created from a pass since the start of last year's Autumn Internationals.

I couldn't believe this, so went back and checked and it looks like it's true:

v SA - 2 tries: Rhys Ruddock from a rolling maul and Tommy Bowe from a kick-chase,
v Aus - 2 tries: Simon Zebo from a kick-chase and Tommy Bowe from an intercept,
v Italy - 2 tries: Conor Murray from a pick-and-go and Tommy O'Donnell's lovely try ,
v France - no tries,
v England - 1 try: Robbie Henshaw's from a kick-chase,
v Wales - 1 try: Penalty try from rolling maul.

That's 6 matches and only one try that involved a pass being the "assist". Given the questions that have been asked about Ireland's lack of width v Wales, is this something that the Irish fans are worried about? I remember Joe Schmidt's Leinster having the most beautiful back moves, but was that down to a horses-for-courses mind set and was that because he had BOD and D'Arcy to pick at the time.

Either way, it certainly raises big queries about whether Ireland will be capable of running in enough tries to get the 10 - 15 point winning margin they might need to win the Championship at Murrayfield.

I'll give you a punt for your thoughts.....

Thats interesting - but its not surprising. Even in last seasons 6N a lot of scores came from rolling mauls.

I can recall a couple with Kearney and Trimble close to the ruck which was something Joe targetted a lot at Leinster.

I do think people are reading far too much into this - its not as if any of the provinces are cutting teams up in attack. I don't think you can compare back to Leinster as it was a different time and different set up.

Look around the 6N, defences are well on top this year and none of the teams are scoring many tries.

GunsGerms wrote:

cp10 wrote:Thought this was interesting...

Someone with too much time posting on the Guardian website wrote:
Folks, this isn't on a wind up, and I'm hoping the Irish might be able to help with this one, but I read a stat the other day that, if you rule out the Georgia romp, Tommy O'Donnell's try v Italy was the only try that Ireland have scored that has been directly created from a pass since the start of last year's Autumn Internationals.

I couldn't believe this, so went back and checked and it looks like it's true:

v SA - 2 tries: Rhys Ruddock from a rolling maul and Tommy Bowe from a kick-chase,
v Aus - 2 tries: Simon Zebo from a kick-chase and Tommy Bowe from an intercept,
v Italy - 2 tries: Conor Murray from a pick-and-go and Tommy O'Donnell's lovely try ,
v France - no tries,
v England - 1 try: Robbie Henshaw's from a kick-chase,
v Wales - 1 try: Penalty try from rolling maul.

That's 6 matches and only one try that involved a pass being the "assist". Given the questions that have been asked about Ireland's lack of width v Wales, is this something that the Irish fans are worried about? I remember Joe Schmidt's Leinster having the most beautiful back moves, but was that down to a horses-for-courses mind set and was that because he had BOD and D'Arcy to pick at the time.

Either way, it certainly raises big queries about whether Ireland will be capable of running in enough tries to get the 10 - 15 point winning margin they might need to win the Championship at Murrayfield.

I'll give you a punt for your thoughts.....

It is interesting but when you consider that since last years six nations Ireland have had 4 changes to the backs it is understandable that they would take time to gel. I think Schmidt has recognised this and focused on other strengths.

We were top try scorers last year.

Personally I think Dave Kearney was the keystone to all our attacking success last year.

Well if you mean getting run down by a lock and notlooking remotely threatening then yes. Having said that both Zebo and Bowe seem to have got the bug as well. albeit being a little faster than a lock..

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Come off it Guns, being in their Team of the Tournament in a Welsh paper if you are not Welsh is a bigger achievement than being an Irish player in the Team the Irish Times picks.

Yes you should definitely order a copy, frame it and hang it up in the local community centre.

Jeez guns you must be on the sauce really early this week..getting all upset at one of our best players being picked....plus having to choose between your dislike for fitzy and for Zebo...tough day.

GunsGerms wrote:

It is interesting but when you consider that since last years six nations Ireland have had 4 changes to the backs it is understandable that they would take time to gel. I think Schmidt has recognised this and focused on other strengths.

We were top try scorers last year.

Personally I think Dave Kearney was the keystone to all our attacking success last year.

Really, Dave Kearney? He was robot 00001...

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

It is interesting but when you consider that since last years six nations Ireland have had 4 changes to the backs it is understandable that they would take time to gel. I think Schmidt has recognised this and focused on other strengths.

We were top try scorers last year.

Personally I think Dave Kearney was the keystone to all our attacking success last year.

Really, Dave Kearney? He was robot 00001...

Yes slow and methodical...although he has seemed to include the little twirl that Rob Kearnage has when getting tackled....must have been practising that in the back garden....maybe Rob would learn how to tackle next...probably Dave could show him

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Come off it Guns, being in their Team of the Tournament in a Welsh paper if you are not Welsh is a bigger achievement than being an Irish player in the Team the Irish Times picks.

Yes you should definitely order a copy, frame it and hang it up in the local community centre.

Jeez guns you must be on the sauce really early this week..getting all upset at one of our best players being picked....plus having to choose between your dislike for fitzy and for Zebo...tough day.

Think you are on the sauce old man. I said Zebo shouldnt have been dropped.

It means nothing to me that any of our players gets a mention in Wales on line. I dont crave attention as much as you do you auld yokel ya.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Come off it Guns, being in their Team of the Tournament in a Welsh paper if you are not Welsh is a bigger achievement than being an Irish player in the Team the Irish Times picks.

Yes you should definitely order a copy, frame it and hang it up in the local community centre.

Jeez guns you must be on the sauce really early this week..getting all upset at one of our best players being picked....plus having to choose between your dislike for fitzy and for Zebo...tough day.

Think you are on the sauce old man. I said Zebo shouldnt have been dropped.

It means nothing to me that any of our players gets a mention in Wales on line. I dont crave attention as much as you do.

couldnt give two cent whether Walesonline or even Leinsteronline picked him but he is still probably one of the best players of the tournament so far for Ireland...but we all know how you feel Guns so keep the auld temper tantrum going

Should this be re-named as the Irish bickering thread?

ME-109 wrote:

couldnt give two cent whether Walesonline or even Leinsteronline picked him but he is still probably one of the best players of the tournament so far for Ireland...but we all know how you feel Guns so keep the auld temper tantrum going

You are not fooling anyone Dod ya grumpy auld bollix. Lol.

Yes.

See Guns you have upset the Scots (and the Welsh and English) with this bickering. They just want to talk about Rugby and tactics and other interesting stuff....

So what do you Scottish fans think is the best approach to beating Ireland, do you follow the same tactics as Wales did or do you come out in full on attack?

For the record, although they have fluffed a lot of tries, Scotland have looked to have some very good attacking set plays.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:So what do you Scottish fans think is the best approach to beating Ireland, do you follow the same tactics as Wales did or do you come out in full on attack?

For the record, although they have fluffed a lot of tries, Scotland have looked to have some very good attacking set plays.