Edinburgh Rugby vs Munster, 11 April

Edinburgh Rugby vs Munster

11 April @ Murrayfield Stadium - Kickoff 19:30, Live on TG4 and BBC ALBA (19:25 - 21:30)

Last meeting:

Munster 13 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby

Munster are positioned 3rd in the table with Edinburgh 7th.

Edinburgh XXIII

15            Greig TONKS

14            Dougie FIFE

13            Phil BURLEIGH

12            Andries STRAUSS

11            Tim VISSER

10            TOM HEATHCOTE

9              Sam HIDALGO-CLYNE



1              Alasdair DICKINSON

2              Ross FORD (captain)

3              WP NEL

4              Anton BRESLER

5              Ben TOOLIS

6              Roddy GRANT

7              Hamish WATSON

8              David DENTON



Substitutes

16            Stuart McINALLY

17            Grant SHIELLS

18            John ANDRESS

19            Fraser MCKENZIE

20            Tomas LEONARDI

21            Nathan FOWLES

22            Sam BEARD

23            Tom BROWN


Munster XXIII

Munster: Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Andrew Smith, Denis Hurley, Simon Zebo; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Duncan Casey, BJ Botha; Billy Holland, Paul O'Connell; Peter O'Mahony - capt., Tommy O'Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Eusebio Guinazu, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Donnacha Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Ronan O'Mahony.

2015-04-09
19:33:25

Great effort on the thread. Edinburgh need to win to keep up the hunt for 6th place, we're on good form and have proven to be tough customers in recent weeks. I'm backing us to get over the line here.

Expected team:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Nel 4.Bresler 5.Toolis 6.Grant 7.Watson 8.Denton 9.H-C 10.Tonks 11.Visser 12.Strauss 13.Burleigh 14.Fife 15.Brown

16.Sutherland 17.McInally 18.Andress 19.MacKenzie 20.Leonardi 21.Fowles 22.Heathcote 23.Beard

It's a slightly tricky position that Edinburgh are in - a match 6 days since the LI match and 6 days before a European semi-final. There is probably a temptation to leave out some players, but we can't really afford to and it doesn't strike me as Solomons' style to do so. FES, agree with your team for the most part, but I think Solomons may keep Tonks at 15 with Heathcote at 10.

I have a feeling we will come unstuck in this match. Munster by 5-10.

Good work, Mr Tode.

It's going to be a very, very tough one. Munster have been odd this season - very hot and cold. They beat Connacht like they owed them money in the last game but I watched the Ospreys-Munster match a fortnight prior to that and I don't think that the Os were ever really in trouble. They huffed and puffed past a Glasgow side with 27 players missing and could easily have lost that game. For balance, when they play well they really can fly and are superb at accelerating through the phases.

Hope that Edinburgh can get a win and help out Scottish rugby in general. There's a very good chance that they might.

Oh God...Munster are going to offload the bloomin' blazes out of that game.  They're the only Irish side now with a AZ-C60 permit to use offloads freely in Provincial games.  I guess it's because their players have been mostly banned from the International side.

Great thread!

Massive game for us - we desperately need to win it and if we do win it will be the result of our season.

Munster should be full strength.

Surely Edinburgh have got to mix up their team a little bit now, even rotating with the bench a bit. If Solly tries to play the same 15 between now and the end of the season, it will likely all end in tears. Maybe the SRU will have a say in things.

We've got zebre at home the week after the Dragons game so he might rotate a few players then.

It's only been 2 games since the 6N break so most of the squad should be fresh. Lots of games to go though!

Edinburgh need 6th and yet you can sense the craving for that Challenge Trophy too. Like BigGee says......... that's going to be some balancing act deciding what players play where and which goal has priority.

Coaches and players say 'win all games' but you gotta be wise with rotation.

SecretFly wrote:Edinburgh need 6th and yet you can sense the craving for that Challenge Trophy too.  Like BigGee says......... that's going to be some balancing act deciding what players play where and which goal has priority.

Coaches and players say 'win all games' but you gotta be wise with rotation.

I kind of think that a bit of gentle rotation tends to keep players hungry and honest. Toonie may take it to extremes at times, but you can see how the players respond to it. They all believe they have a chance to play and usually step up when given the opportunity. I expect Glasgow will settle towards their strongest team as the big games approach at the end of the year, hence why Kellock and Hall are being given their send off this week and not latter on but pretty much everyone has had the chance to state their case.

At Edinburgh though, Solly seems to remain fixated on what he perceives as his best 15 players (currently fit). It must be a little disheartening for some of them on the fringes, who feel that they could do a job if given a chance. It is a little reminiscent of the days of the Scotland team, when it was harder to get dropped than it was to get in!

He won't rotate for the next 2, but I'd expect wholesale changes for Zebre, along the following lines:

1.Sutherland 2.McInally 3.Andreas 4.MacKenzie 5.A Toolis 6.Leonardi 7.Grant 8.Coman 9.Fowles 10.Heathcote 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Beard 14.Brown 15.Cuthbert

The problem Solomons has is that he doesn't know how many games we're going to have left. We're going to have between 5-8 games until the end of the season - that is a big swing.  So he could end up resting players now only to find out that there was no need because we didn't get to those extra games.  The flip side being that he keeps picking the same players and they end up having to play all 8!

Looking at the likely starting XV, and considering their fatigue levels given how much rugby they've played this season and how well they are able to cope with it (i.e. first year pros):

1 Dickinson - High
2 Ford - High
3 Nel - High
4 Bresler - Medium
5 Toolis High
6 Coman/Grant - low
7 Watson - Medium (should really be high but he's an absolute machine)
8 Denton - low

9 Hidalgo-Clyne - High
10 Tonks - High
11 Visser - low
12 Burleigh - Medium
13 Scott - low
14 Fife - low
15 Cuthbert - low


So it is clear where our fatigue lies - in the pack.  Sutherland and McInally can certainly come in against Zebre, and McKenzie looks chomping at the bit to give Toolis a rest.  Hopefully Du Preez coming back will help give Denton a rest, and Grant can spell Watson at 7.

Scrum half is a worry as S-H-C has become absolutely indespensible and is the heartbeat of the team.  Still, Hart will be wanting to give his all if he gets a final chance for Edinburgh and Fowls looks a solid option. Heathcoat can fill in at 10 and we have Beard or Strauss in for Burleigh.

So we do have the ability to rotate, the question is when and how many!

Toolis should have plenty left in the tank, while involved in 6 nations not game time.

Front row could be an issue, but Zebra + Dragons (in the euro-semi ironically) both at home, could give options for rest, same with SHC not that Solomons will do it.

Edinburgh need a win, but they also IMO need to rest some players. Solomans has a tough juggling job here.

I think Watson, SHC and Denton are now instrumental to Edinburgh and IMO must play.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Rambo start either. I would pick him over Ford at hooker.

Edinburgh Rugby team v Munster, Saturday 11 April, BT Murrayfield, k/o 7.30pm
15            Greig TONKS
14            Dougie FIFE
13            Phil BURLEIGH
12            Andries STRAUSS
11            Tim VISSER
10            TOM HEATHCOTE
9              Sam HIDALGO-CLYNE
 
1              Alasdair DICKINSON
2              Ross FORD (captain)
3              WP NEL
4              Anton BRESLER
5              Ben TOOLIS
6              Roddy GRANT
7              Hamish WATSON
8              David DENTON
 
Substitutes
16            Stuart McINALLY
17            Grant SHIELLS
18            John ANDRESS
19            Fraser MCKENZIE
20            Tomas LEONARDI
21            Nathan FOWLES
22            Sam BEARD
23            Tom BROWN
Hugh Blake is with Glasgow Warriors until the end of the season 

Injury update

Mike Coman (head), Jack Cuthbert (groin), Allan Dell (ankle), Cornell Du Preez (foot), Grant Gilchrist (arm), Sean Kennedy (shoulder), Nick McLennan (groin), Matt Scott (shoulder), Rory Sutherland (head)

Predictably enough only one injury enforced change on the bench. Still a decent team and should hopefully trouble Munster. They would do Glasgow a big favour if they did!

Thats the most important thing after all

Munster team - very strong team out there and good bench.

Munster: Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Andrew Smith, Denis Hurley, Simon Zebo; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Duncan Casey, BJ Botha; Billy Holland, Paul O'Connell; Peter O'Mahony - capt., Tommy O'Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Eusebio Guinazu, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Donnacha Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Ronan O'Mahony.

That's a very strong Munster team, who will be well rested and intent on getting a big win.

Gonna be tough.

Likely to be Paul O'Connoll's last game at Murrayfield too if he is to retire after the world cup as rumoured!

RDW_Scotland wrote:That's a very strong Munster team, who will be well rested and intent on getting a big win.

Gonna be tough.

Likely to be Paul O'Connoll's last game at Murrayfield too if he is to retire after the world cup as rumoured!

POC isn't going to retire after the world cup. Munster would need to know now if that was the case.

He might retire internationally if Ireland win the world cup though!

What's quite alarming is that Matt Scott's shoulder is a problem again. He missed last week (and the week before that?) and now this week again.

Got my tickets for tomorrow - looking forward to it!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Got my tickets for tomorrow - looking forward to it!

Should be a cracker!

Bit worrying that there's been hardly any advertising for it though - the focus all week has been on the Dragons game.

This is just as important IMO.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bit worrying that there's been hardly any advertising for it though - the focus all week has been on the Dragons game.

This is just as important IMO.

Oh God, Jesus would you keep it quiet! If Chunky hears that he'll be in like Flynn.

SecretFly wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bit worrying that there's been hardly any advertising for it though - the focus all week has been on the Dragons game.

This is just as important IMO.

Oh God, Jesus would you keep it quiet!  If Chunky hears that he'll be in like Flynn.

I'm missing something here...

Don't worry about it, RDW. Indeed, you're lucky if you're in the dark about that one

Ha fair enough.

We normally get a good Munster crowd for these games - they often outnumber Edinburgh fans!

A good time of the year for a trip through to Edinburgh too, and youse don't have any big European game coming up to save your money for....

We do  (looking' prim and proper with meeself )  I'm a Leinster ladyboy.  We're going to France quite soon to pick up a bit of a thrashing courtesy of Toulon.

Meh - Leinster, Munster - what's the difference!

I still don't know if getting into the top 6 is the best thing for Edinburgh in rugby terms.

Imagine Edinburgh vs Toulon, Saracens and Leinster. It would be painful tbh.

Hopefully it would mean more money, and that would be a big boost. It would also help us attract a higher calibre of player.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Hopefully it would mean more money, and that would be a big boost. It would also help us attract a higher calibre of player.

It doesn't mean extra money (other than extra gate money that Edinburgh would generate). Every Union gets the same amount bar Italy who get a small bit less.

Nematode wrote:I still don't know if getting into the top 6 is the best thing for Edinburgh in rugby terms.

Imagine Edinburgh vs Toulon, Saracens and Leinster. It would be painful tbh.

Don't think so, Scarlets held their own relatively well and i don't think Embra are worse than Scarlets.

I think you are downplaying Edinburgh abilities, for me they are very much like Glasgow circa 2011-2012 and they didn't look out of place in the Heineken cup.

Sin é wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Hopefully it would mean more money, and that would be a big boost. It would also help us attract a higher calibre of player.

It doesn't mean extra money (other than extra gate money that Edinburgh would generate). Every Union gets the same amount bar Italy who get a small bit less.

I thought that was the case, but the greater exposure would hopefully help bring in bigger sponsorship deals and, as you say, gate money.

The main point is attracting better players though,!

Nematode wrote:I still don't know if getting into the top 6 is the best thing for Edinburgh in rugby terms.

Imagine Edinburgh vs Toulon, Saracens and Leinster. It would be painful tbh.

No it wouldn't be painful.  That's when you do most learning - up against it and backs to the wall.  A season of that and failing is better than winning a Challenge (in my opinion anyway).  It gets you ready to fail less the next time, and hopefully even less so the third or 4th time.  
You get to know the levels required.  No substitute for being in there.  Connacht have hardened up because of their presence in HEC the last few years.

If I were Edinburgh coach I'd be chasing hard for sixth.... and then giving the Challenge a real shot too.  But if I had to choose best players, I'd put them into Pro12.

That's a good team from Munster, really hoping for a TBP win.

Will be interesting to see how we get on tonight - pretty much every game we've won since Christmas has been because our pack has been dominant.

At the very best we'll only get parity tonight, so will be interesting to see how we cope without that advantage!

I have a feeling that it will be a long night for you RDW. The Munster pack is very solid and the backs are very attacking. Munster will go for it tonight.

You may be right, but we're on decent form just now and our pack won't take any backward steps.

We're certainly lacking creativity in the backs though.

When was the last time BJ Botha was dominant at the scrum? he has very much looked like a spent force this season and i would expect that Edinburgh front 5 to at the very least get parity, if not slight domination.
Apart from O'Donnell-Watson where i can't give a clear advantage, i think Munster edges it in every other positions from 5 to 15.

Botha may not be so dominant anymore but he is part of a very solid pack. I expect Edinburgh to have parity for the early exchanges but that Munster will get them on the back foot.

I can see Munster having a good game tonight and giving Edinburgh a little beating. Munster by 17.

After thinking a bit about it, i would have rotated a bit and given a rest to Bresler and Ford with McInally or even Cochrane (who imo has been unfairly dropped) and McKenzie starting, they didn't weaken the team at all last week and deserve a start.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:Botha may not be so dominant anymore but he is part of a very solid pack. I expect Edinburgh to have parity for the early exchanges but that Munster will get them on the back foot.

I can see Munster having a good game tonight and giving Edinburgh a little beating. Munster by 17.

On the other hand we could possibly see one of their away from home just can't be bothered performances which sometimes happen( too much this season). These usually occur from about the 10th minute of the second half onwards..

Well just met some Munster boys in the pub - they weren't up for my chat apparently! Men of few words...

SHC out Fowles starts Grayson benches. Really think that should be the other way round.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well just met some Munster boys in the pub - they weren't up for my chat apparently! Men of few words...

Really...probably from limerick...they're a bit dour

I've never been to Limerick, but the people in Cork are some of the friendliest I have ever met.

Good start from both sides in this game.

Fantastic break by Watson there, unfortunately it didn't enter Ford's head to expect a pass.

anyone got link ?