if Manny beats Money...

Marlonz wrote:So what are your thoughts on Ariza then Truss?

hazharrison wrote:

Marlonz wrote:So what are your thoughts on Ariza then Truss?

He wouldn't care less if Mayweather posted a video of himself shooting up on Instagram. His heroes include Lance Armstrong and a bunch of steroid monkey body builders!!

Derbymanc wrote:It's a good question to ask Marlon but it's the same as when noone was questoning Manny about Roach's comments 'he used to be given special shakes'

IMO noone wants to ask the question directly for fear of being barred from access for the best boxers of our generation and being shouted down by the major fanboys.

Plus there's enough fans that will bring it up constantly whilst also rubbing in a fair amount of bullcrap to try and push the agenda.

Personally would like to see anyone involved in cheating (all forms) not allowed anywhere near the sport.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Marlonz wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Don't think anyone is denying that Mosley had seen better days, Haz, but I don't see how you can deny that, as a performance, Mayweather's showing against Shane clearly outshone Pacquiao's.

The scorecards might have indicated that there was nowt in it (can't remember the specifics on that front without checking) but Mayweather showed the full array of his skills whereas nobody thinks back to the Mosley fight when they talk about top performances by Manny or fights which showcased him at his best. Pacquiao clearly wasn't in the same kind of ruthless mood as he was against Cotto, for instance - Miguel got very defensive and back-foot happy after Pacquiao had beaten the hell out of him for a few rounds but Manny still retained his cutting edge and walked him down. Likewise Mosley lost heart against Mayweather but Floyd still gave him a chasing. Pacquiao just did enough. Mosley-Pacquiao was a dreadful fight and neither guy put on a show.

I found it pretty ridiculous in 2012 when some Mayweather fanatcis were trying to argue that his win over Cotto was shomehow better than Manny's, but similarly it seems odd to me that anyone could watch Floyd-Mosley and Manny-Mosley and argue that Pacquiao's performance or win was superior. Again, leaving out how you felt about Mosley's condition at the time, do you really think Pacquiao looked anything like a great fighter in that fight? Mayweather on the other hand did, in my opinion.

It depends how you look at it though Chris. You could say that Manny, in 2nd gear almost KO'D Shane and had him terrified for the remainder of the fight, whilst still not having to get out of 2nd gear. I agree with you that it was an underwhelming performance from Manny, but it could be interpreted as him not needing to be anything but that in order to get the win.

Don't know if I'm reading too much into it but apparently he was involved in a minor car accident the morning of the fight and was said to be a little shaken up just 6 or 7 hours before the fight. I'm sure there was a news video released the day of the fight reporting this. Still, I agree with you that regardless of that incident, it did seem to mark the start of some mildly disappointing performances from Manny.

Let's not get into this whole second gear crap.............

Hamed wasn't focused against Barrera blah blah..............Duran was partying for Leonard 2 blah blah............

It's redundant garbage where all the fighters you hate are always 100% focussed and prime when they are crap..............and the ones you like have excuses when they are !!.............

hazharrison wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:It's a good question to ask Marlon but it's the same as when noone was questoning Manny about Roach's comments 'he used to be given special shakes'

IMO noone wants to ask the question directly for fear of being barred from access for the best boxers of our generation and being shouted down by the major fanboys.

Plus there's enough fans that will bring it up constantly whilst also rubbing in a fair amount of bullcrap to try and push the agenda.

Personally would like to see anyone involved in cheating (all forms) not allowed anywhere near the sport.

Here here.

Stuffing HGH and EPO into yourself in order to run faster than someone is distinctly different to someone illegally building speed, power and endurance that can be used to almost decapitate someone (who may then, theoretically, retire, become depressed, pick up a drugs habit and end up on the scrapheap...ahem).

Derbymanc wrote:I'd say it's probably rife in the sport Truss, to be honest the governing bodies don't do enough to really deter it and until there starts to be some really harsh punishments (records wiped, lifetime bans) then it will carry on.

It doesn't mean we should ignore though, especially as it probably happened years ago too. If that were the case the cheating scumbag Armstrong wouldn't have been caught as noone would have spoken out.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Manny has lots of integrity and honesty..............no doubt !!

Dipper Brown wrote:To answer the OP, I think the winner will be the best WW in the world and that's enough for me. Don't see enough of the no.1 and no.2 in the division facing each other. That makes this a big fight for me, even the cynics have to admit that.

Marlonz wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Manny has lots of integrity and honesty..............no doubt !!

But he isn't accusing people of deceit and then contradicting himself Truss. What Floyd has done with Ariza is wrong on so many levels, the association with Heredia even more so. Remember, this is a guy that wants to "clean up the sport of boxing"...

Dipper Brown wrote:Armstrong was a cheat in a sea of cheats. What he did to overcome cancer and dominate the sport is incredible, drugs or no drugs those cyclists demonstrate incredible feats of human endurance (even though the sport is mind numbingly boring).

Having said that, the absolute abuse of power in covering his tracks and intimidating his accusers to the point their careers were ruined is disgusting. The guy is clearly a sociopath and has shown nothing resembling remorse. The guy's a scumbag! The doping is forgivable, the abuse of power. No chance.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Knowing a murderer doesn't make you a murderer just like working with Ariza doesn't necessarily make you a drug cheat. Before he worked with Mayweather everyone gave Pacman the benefit of the doubt, now the tables have reversed in order to throw allegations at Mayweather.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Knowing a murderer doesn't make you a murderer just like working with Ariza doesn't necessarily make you a drug cheat. Before he worked with Mayweather everyone gave Pacman the benefit of the doubt, now the tables have reversed in order to throw allegations at Mayweather.

Marlonz wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Knowing a murderer doesn't make you a murderer just like working with Ariza doesn't necessarily make you a drug cheat. Before he worked with Mayweather everyone gave Pacman the benefit of the doubt, now the tables have reversed in order to throw allegations at Mayweather.

Yes, but it's the principle Hammersmith.  If you strongly accuse someone of being dishonest and a cheat for the best part of 5 years, only to then say "Oh, now I want to work with you!", you deserve all the ridicule you get because you set yourself up for it. Floyd is trying to have it both ways and largely getting it.

Marlonz wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Knowing a murderer doesn't make you a murderer just like working with Ariza doesn't necessarily make you a drug cheat. Before he worked with Mayweather everyone gave Pacman the benefit of the doubt, now the tables have reversed in order to throw allegations at Mayweather.

Yes, but it's the principle Hammersmith.  If you strongly accuse someone of being dishonest and a cheat for the best part of 5 years, only to then say "Oh, now I want to work with you!", you deserve all the ridicule you get because you set yourself up for it. Floyd is trying to have it both ways and largely getting it.