Research into the use of the time violation rule - NEW petition expessing concern about it's inconsistant use

Haddie-nuff wrote:I think it's a massive thing for the sport if - and for Haddies sake I'll be specific - Rafa Nadal gets to have Umpires barred from his matches because he applied the rules. I can't thing of another example in sport where I've heard of it, and there's no other contemporary examples in tennis.

Please don't trouble yourself to be more specific.. you are as always  more than  transparent..I know precisely where you are coming from and I expect there are others who do too. Your response is of no surprise to me.
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Lets get a few facts right.. "barred" I haven't heard that word mentioned by anyone but you. UMPIRES, we are talking of one umpire here. Nadal is doing nothing illegal, immoral or against the rules..(whether you can think of previous cases is not the issue) he is exercising his right, as any player is entitled to do, to request that an official not adjudicate at his matches if he is of the belief that the said official will not adjudicate fairly or without bias.
As... if you were on trial in a court of law and you believed there was  member of the jury that could prejudice your , you are entitled to have that said member removed.

Nadal, as has been established has been guilty of TV's without a doubt, but we are also attempting to establish that umpires are not being fair when some players are being penalised and not others.. however, you are seemingly blinkered to that problem. Have you bothered to time other players? No because in truth you don't give a damn, merely yet another opportunity for you to stick the knife in. EH Mac ??

Haddie-nuff wrote:I can't thing of another example in sport where I've heard of it, and there's no other contemporary examples in tennis.

ATP umpires might recall the case of Jeremy Shales, the British official who had a huge falling-out with Jimmy Connors at the Lipton Championships in 1986, then found that his contract was not renewed the following year.

Haddie-nuff wrote:What he says and what he can actually do are two different things.
So speaking of bullies unlike Connors he didn't cost the man his job did he?

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The Association of Tennis Professionals, which runs the tour, told The Telegraph "a number of factors are taken into consideration in the [umpire] selection process, including badge qualifications, nationality, as well as any previous history or incidents".

It is hardly news that umpires tend to be kept away from players with whom they have had a recent disagreement.

But keep on focussing on Nadal...it is after all more newsworthy than whether an Umpire(s) are being fair to all players which is after all the point of this thread   so amusing

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I think it's a massive thing for the sport if - and for Haddies sake I'll be specific - Rafa Nadal gets to have Umpires barred from his matches because he applied the rules. I can't thing of another example in sport where I've heard of it, and there's no other contemporary examples in tennis.

Please don't trouble yourself to be more specific.. you are as always  more than  transparent..I know precisely where you are coming from and I expect there are others who do too. Your response is of no surprise to me.
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Lets get a few facts right.. "barred" I haven't heard that word mentioned by anyone but you. UMPIRES, we are talking of one umpire here. Nadal is doing nothing illegal, immoral or against the rules..(whether you can think of previous cases is not the issue) he is exercising his right, as any player is entitled to do, to request that an official not adjudicate at his matches if he is of the belief that the said official will not adjudicate fairly or without bias.
As... if you were on trial in a court of law and you believed there was  member of the jury that could prejudice your , you are entitled to have that said member removed.

Nadal, as has been established has been guilty of TV's without a doubt, but we are also attempting to establish that umpires are not being fair when some players are being penalised and not others.. however, you are seemingly blinkered to that problem. Have you bothered to time other players? No because in truth you don't give a damn, merely yet another opportunity for you to stick the knife in. EH Mac ??

Well I got specific because you made the point of citing my previous post to suggest it was "players". Perhaps you were being sarcastic, in which case that's not my fault.

He's had 100% of the Umpires to dock him a point in 2015 prevented from officiating. That's one umpire, but it's the only one who docked him a point. See why it's only one yet?

As for his "rights", you think it's ok that his "rights" extend to prohibiting a guy from officiating who FOLLOWED THE RULES - or, as they say in the World of officiating, "Did his job"?  

And no, I'm not focussing on anyone else because so far as I know nobody else is telling the sport who can officiate their matches. Please let me know if I've missed anyone.

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I can't thing of another example in sport where I've heard of it, and there's no other contemporary examples in tennis.

ATP umpires might recall the case of Jeremy Shales, the British official who had a huge falling-out with Jimmy Connors at the Lipton Championships in 1986, then found that his contract was not renewed the following year.

I see the response above, but apart from that I'll merely observe that you've had to go back to 1986, and one of the most notorious cheats / foul mouthed abusers. You obviously consider that good company for Rafa!! No sign of Federer / Djokovic / Murray, or Hewitt / Sampras / Agassi ..... even McEnroe?

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I can't thing of another example in sport where I've heard of it, and there's no other contemporary examples in tennis.

ATP umpires might recall the case of Jeremy Shales, the British official who had a huge falling-out with Jimmy Connors at the Lipton Championships in 1986, then found that his contract was not renewed the following year.

I see the response above, but apart from that I'll merely observe that you've had to go back to 1986, and one of the most notorious cheats / foul mouthed abusers. You obviously consider that good company for Rafa!! No sign of Federer / Djokovic / Murray, or Hewitt / Sampras / Agassi ..... even McEnroe?

Haddie-nuff wrote:How do you know he told the sport anything.. you are assuming. I have quoted above the incident with Connors.. do you KNOW what Connors said to the sport resulting in that Umpire losing his job.. I have also quoted what has been said by the ATP see my post above.. but that doesn't convince you either does it.

Are you deliberately attempting to avoid the nitty gritty of my argument because it is Nadal.. you cannot disassociate my opinion because I am a Nadal fan is that the real problem here.???
NADAL IS WRONG..he is in breach of the tv rule. on more occasions than I would wish to admit. That is established yes ????

Haddie-nuff wrote:Wasn't talking to you

Some years ago I was in a job working with someone who was affecting my wellbeing on a daily basis, to the point where I considered resigning, I went to my boss and explained the situation.. they removed that person to another department.

Things like this happen in life, not just in tennis. Does it occur to you that Carlos may well have been glad of that also.

I quote again

The Association of Tennis Professionals, which runs the tour, told The Telegraph "a number of factors are taken into consideration in the [umpire] selection process, including badge qualifications, nationality, as well as any previous history or incidents".

It is hardly news that umpires tend to be kept away from players with whom they have had a recent disagreement.

Now why do you not now discuss the purpose of this thread .

Haddie-nuff wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I can't thing of another example in sport where I've heard of it, and there's no other contemporary examples in tennis.

ATP umpires might recall the case of Jeremy Shales, the British official who had a huge falling-out with Jimmy Connors at the Lipton Championships in 1986, then found that his contract was not renewed the following year.

I see the response above, but apart from that I'll merely observe that you've had to go back to 1986, and one of the most notorious cheats / foul mouthed abusers. You obviously consider that good company for Rafa!! No sign of Federer / Djokovic / Murray, or Hewitt / Sampras / Agassi ..... even McEnroe?

It doesn't matter who or when ...you don't get out of it that easy.
YOU COULDNT THINK OF ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

But again.. your quest is not to know whether Umpires are being fair only that Nadal gets his dues.
Really...   you should ask yourself a serious question.. do you really care what happens to the sport.. I think your motives are somewhat more . .

Haddie-nuff wrote:So Carlos is making Rafa ill and threatening his well being (well, maybe by forcing him to play by the rules that's a possible, but.....)?

You are a business man your livelihood requires you to have good relationships with your business associates.. If such an associate was affecting the way you conducted your business would you not wish to disassociate yourself with them. Ive have quoted twice above what the ATP attempt to do in such situations.. it may not even have been necessary for Rafa to speak to anyone.. it could well have been that that would have been their recommendation in any event.

Get back to the real question BB. your obsession with Rafa is getting unhealthy.

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:So Carlos is making Rafa ill and threatening his well being (well, maybe by forcing him to play by the rules that's a possible, but.....)?

You are a business man your livelihood requires you to have good relationships with your business associates.. If such an associate was affecting the way you conducted your business would you not wish to disassociate yourself with them. Ive have quoted twice above what the ATP attempt to do in such situations.. it may not even have been necessary for Rafa to speak to anyone.. it could well have been that that would have been their recommendation in any event.

Get back to the real question BB. your obsession with Rafa is getting unhealthy.

Yeah, I'm a businessman. If I had two employees who couldn't get on because one of them was doing his job and the other one didn't like it I really, really doubt I'd be moving the one doing his job. Yeah, pretty sure about that.

As for Rafa speaking, he pretty much declared the course of action to the Umpire at the time. Message received by the others, I'm sure....

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Well Im not surprised you cannot see what is of more value to you and your business the one that stayed was doing their job..... after all you spend most of your time on here obsessing over a player that you so abhor that he has taken over your life so how would you know.

Anyway temp..before you say anything.
Ive more important things to attend to

Matchpoint wrote:HN, you won't address my post in question because you can't. How do you expect to advance your case when you evade evidence not helping your guy? So no wonder 12 pages on and you're going nowhere.  Evade it all you want, but the key problem is nadal's inability to play within the rule, not so much the umpires,  I'm afraid.

bogbrush wrote:Bizarre post.

temporary21 wrote:You three. Start getting along. A dress each other's points and stop
Making personal attacks or we put an abrupt end to it

Matchpoint wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:How do you know he told the sport anything.. you are assuming. I have quoted above the incident with Connors.. do you KNOW what Connors said to the sport resulting in that Umpire losing his job.. I have also quoted what has been said by the ATP see my post above.. but that doesn't convince you either does it.

Are you deliberately attempting to avoid the nitty gritty of my argument because it is Nadal.. you cannot disassociate my opinion because I am a Nadal fan is that the real problem here.???
NADAL IS WRONG..he is in breach of the tv rule. on more occasions than I would wish to admit. That is established yes ????

If the above is meant for me, then no, I didn't assume anything. See for yourself in the link below.

http://www.abc.es/deportes/tenis/20150223/abci-nadal-arbitro-bernardes-201502222225.html

"¡Voy a pedir que no me arbitres nunca más"


He was obviously going somewhere to tell on Carlos. So if not the sports (ATP), which relevant authority do you think he was GOING to tell his complaint to when he threatened that  "I am going to ask that you don't arbitrate me anymore?" Do enlighten us.

bogbrush wrote:Bizarre post.

temporary21 wrote:You three. Start getting along. A dress each other's points and stop
Making personal attacks or we put an abrupt end to it

JuliusHMarx wrote:Were any tv's given?

lags72 wrote:After several months of thorough research (entirely self-funded), I have arrived at the following revelatory ground-breaking conclusions :

1. Many players are guilty of time violations, although a much smaller number are not

2. Rafa Nadal is allegedly guilty of far more TV's than any other top player

3.  Umpires have shown themselves to be less than efficient at imposing the official ATP penalties

4. Er........ that's it.

CaledonianCraig wrote:My one post on this topic then I am out of here as I know I will get shot down in flames.

Who gives a friggin' toss if a player takes 30 seconds to serve (or more). I'd hazard a guess that many of the classic matches of recent times have contained time violations here and there but the quality of tennis on show is all we care about.

Frankly, I'd prefer to leave it in the hands of the players involved in the match. If they are both happy with length of time between points then that should be all that matters. If it is bugging one of the players to distraction then let them go to the umpire and complain. I may be speaking for myself here but I don't sit there counting down the seconds between points - I sit there anticipating the drama from that point about to unfold.

That is my take on it and if Rafa wasn't the key in this subject I guarantee it would not be under discussion.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:My one post on this topic then I am out of here as I know I will get shot down in flames.

Who gives a friggin' toss if a player takes 30 seconds to serve (or more). I'd hazard a guess that many of the classic matches of recent times have contained time violations here and there but the quality of tennis on show is all we care about.

Frankly, I'd prefer to leave it in the hands of the players involved in the match. If they are both happy with length of time between points then that should be all that matters. If it is bugging one of the players to distraction then let them go to the umpire and complain. I may be speaking for myself here but I don't sit there counting down the seconds between points - I sit there anticipating the drama from that point about to unfold.

That is my take on it and if Rafa wasn't the key in this subject I guarantee it would not be under discussion.

Not true.

There's been discussions about bad language on Court and that was for Andy.

That kind of comment simply endorses one side of the debate by demeaning the other side's intentions. It's not polite.

As for your point, then let them change the rules. Until then, let's play TO the rules. And applaud & support the umpires who take on the thankless task of enforcing them.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Matchpoint wrote:HN, you won't address my post in question because you can't. How do you expect to advance your case when you evade evidence not helping your guy? So no wonder 12 pages on and you're going nowhere.  Evade it all you want, but the key problem is nadal's inability to play within the rule, not so much the umpires,  I'm afraid.

I have answered the question numerous times before is it my problem that you cant read or understand.
You haven't read the last page leave alone all 12..so how the hell would you know