PGA Tour: The Players. Fifth Major? No! But Who Cares?: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).This year's Players Championship has rather crept up on the golfing world, coming as it does immediately following the WGC Match Play action.
The Tour switches back from Harding Park in San Francisco to PGA Tour HQ in the Jacksonville, Florida, area: Different grasses, different course design principles, and a very different climate, with warm weather expected and showers possible through the weekend.

2).The annual debate about "Fifth Major" status seems to dim just a shade every year, while no-one can ignore the quality of the field (48 of the Top 50) or the familiarity with Pete Dye's TPC Sawgrass course, like it or loathe it. I'll never like the sh1t or bust nature of #17, never a Championship-worthy hole in my (dog-eared) book, but that doesn't mean it's not compulsive viewing!

3).And compulsive viewing was something that was missing last week at the Match Play.
64 matches and there were certainly some good ones, probably the highest quality delivered by Alex Levy and Joost Luiten (sorry Golf Channel), Levy's 66 being trumped by Luiten's 64. But the TV broadcasts were flat, the commentators trying to figure things out as they went along and sometimes getting it wrong. Perhaps the most stupid part of the entire enterprise was the tee-time schedule on Saturday, potentially a mess for the Tours but possibly also a blessing in disguise.
For reasons unknown, the four quarter finals were delayed such that the final tie between Casey & McIlroy left the house at 4.00 p.m. in the clear knowledge that sunset was at 8.00 p.m.. Needless to say it went extra holes and had to resume Sunday morning with temps in the 40's and Casey looking like death warmed up. In the circumstances, one wonders whether his sleepless Saturday night caused by food poisoning would have allowed him to play a semi-final had he won.
Even Rory thought that scheduling was unusual:
"I'm not sure it's ever really happened before, with the guys pushing tee times back so late, this obviously could have been avoided if we went off a little earlier." Quite.

4).Regardless, the pundits and others have weighed in with ideas for changes to take to Austin, Texas, for the Dell Match Play next March.
An indignant Jordan Spieth wants 54 holes stroke play followed by the top 16 going Match Play - 'course, though he played well on Wednesday and Thursday, Westwood beat him by two up as well as two strokes. Anyway, Finchem's not having that, but he promises some "tweaks". A straight knock out for all 64 players works well in my book . . . . . .

5).Can't let the Match Play go without talking about the big "fight", not Mayweather reaping gazillions fighting a guy with a torn rotator cuff, but Bradley/Hale vs Jimenez. I've seen interpretations of forensic analysis of the tape purporting to say each golfer was in the right. Who knows?
What I haven't seen is anyone suggesting Pepsi Hale was right to intervene and confront Jimenez (especially if it's true that he mocked Miguel's accent) - who does he think he is? Steve Williams?? Not surprisingly the tenor of media opinion here is that Jimenez is just another Spanish Ryder Cupper with questionable behaviour in Match Play. GolfWorld's Jaime Diaz, among the sports media's most respected writers, put it this way:
"Ryder Cup stuff lingers. Supposedly hale fellow Jimenez has a reputation among Americans for being an annoying opponent with a haughty and even antagonistic air. When Jimenez questioned an official's ruling, permitted under the rules but a breach of the golfer's code, he pushed the highly strung Bradley's buttons. Of course, Jimenez doesn't seem to have any. He walked away from the ugliness with customary aplomb, raising suspicions that, like the world's most interesting man, he had simply decided to have an awkward moment, just to see what it was like."

NB: Have never previously heard such aspersions cast against Miguel.
Diaz may think questioning an official's ruling is a breach of golfer's code, but it certainly happens on regular Tour events as well as the Ryder Cup, and happened in a (semi-final?) match at a recent Match Play between Garcia and Poulter when Poults questioned a ruling, brought in the referee, and was proved to be correct.
The most relevant outcome? Jimenez won 2 up.  

6).Jimenez has played 38 WGC events, which is a lot but by no means the leader. That distinction falls to Lee Westwood, with 51 and a couple more presumably to follow later this year. The five with the most appearances are:
51: Westwood
48: Els
45: Furyk
44: Woods
44: Mickelson

7).Two sad events last week, the passing of pioneering black golfers Calvin Peete and Pete Brown. There aren't many left. I linked an appreciation of Calvin Peete last week. Here's what Scott Michaux had to say about Pete Brown (and, not incidentally, Jim Dent):
http://chronicle.augusta.com/sports/golf/2015-05-02/michaux-jim-dent-wont-forget-man-pete-brown

When I started following US PGA Tour golf, Lee Elder, Jim Dent, Jim Thorpe and Calvin Peete were Tour regulars; one or two others followed, and Charlie Sifford and Charlie Owens were trail-blazers on the Senior Tour. Since Tiger burst on the scene and inspired generations of new Tour pros, no new black player has emerged as a Tour regular. That says something, but I'm not completely sure exactly what.

8).Meanwhile, some Tour pros took the opportunity to introduce themselves to Chambers Bay. The press release said the reviews were "mixed", but I haven't read a good review yet. Most liked the routing but not the greens - just a few weeks now and we'll be able to see what the fuss is about.

9).There'll be plenty to read about The Players Championship so no point in going on about it. Great field, very precise ball-striking required, Henrik Stenson ticks all the boxes for attributes required to win (again), but Stenson has seemed out of sorts since the Bay Hill fiasco, sickness, and not knowing the MatchPlay rules last week. He wasn't thrilled with his first look at Chambers Bay and, let's face it, with Stenson you are never quite sure which Henrik you're going to get. Hopefully this week will be Good Henrik but I wouldn't bank on it.

10).The final word about one of golf's shortest champions, Wee Woosie, who is playing his best golf for ten years, probably his best since his 15-clubs snafu at Lytham. Woosie won this past week's Champions Tour event in Houston, in a Play-off with Kenny Perry and Lehman, and banked $300+K, the largest official payday of his career and $64K more than he won at The Masters in 1991.
Last and least - but only in height. His stature in golf is unquestioned.

Unfortunately those ill-advised remarks also seem to give the Tigercentric media some licence to fit Sergio to the stereotypical villain; the NBC commentary this past few days was riddled with thinly veiled prejudice against Garcia and Poulter that only serves to fuel the morons who go to tournaments to drink and heckle (didn't see you there though Mac, but might have heard you a couple of times).

Johnny Miller, Rolfing and Jacobsen are all as bad as each other, Miller getting his "facts" wrong time and again yesterday to fit his anti-Sergio agenda. But they can seemingly say what they want when they're covering the "Pre-eminent tournament in the World", as they called it Saturday.

Mac seems to be a typical relativist - a trait commonly found among the self righteous leftists. Sitting on the high horse, but still has no problem slamming people with other opinions, views or ideologies.

McLaren wrote:puligny

It's not just that comment, but a career full of petulance and tantrums that make me suspect Garcia isn't a very nice guy.

As for his apology or accepting that he did the wrong thing it is irrelevant as the golf world did not properly critisize him for making that remark.  The media applied little scrutiny to him the fans almost immediately let him off the hook because "of course he didn't mean it".


I am pretty sure Garcia remains as ignorant now as he was before thinking it was ok to suggest in a condescending tone that he invite an African american round for fried chicken.

Yet, you'd stated previously years of praise in  a vomit inducing sycophancy fashion and figurative fellation  of 9C, one of the most unpleasant players ever to darken (sorry, is that racist?) the doors of a golf course
Spitting, swearing, club chucking, cheating, but I guess that's alright, just as long as you can't construct some sort of closet racist out of him.

Good Lord ... the press seems to pander to that racist idiot that is Sergio. Spitting in golf holes, throwing shoes, blaming others ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS6dA6ngKok

To be fair, my observation is that the press panders to just about everyone.

Wonderful win by Rickie though.

Look!
It's Johnny Miller, right on cue . . . . . . .

pedro

I can assure you am no relativist. Only the accusation of postmodernism could be more offensive.

Kwini

The fact is that he spat in the cup.

Mac,
That was stupid, no doubt about it. Should he be condemned for life for such a dastardly deed? I don't think so.

Anyway, you can tell Sergio is playing well again as the usual rhetoric from the usual suspects comes flying across the internet.

Quite staggering finish from Rickie Fowler last night. Is he overrated? I dunno, but he gets into contention a few bit.

Of course he spat in the cup ... but, look, the apologists will continue with the conspiracy theories!

Maybe that was all photoshopped, just like this ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shn95skiEKg

Ted Bishop is back....
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/bishop-takes-shot-poulter-twitter-again/

McLaren wrote:I quite rightly pointed out that I would heckle Garcia, and as bob rightly assumed because I am known to think Garcia's fried chicken comment was no mistake and revealed his true narrow minded nature.

Navy agreeing that racial bigotry was no reason to heckle a player confirmed my view that he votes tory, and has therefore voted for a party who are about get rid of the UK's human rights.

Oh Mac. Thought you were were better than that. I never agreed anything re. racial bigotry, I don't recall you mentioning it initially - just that you'd heckle him like a drunken cretin - and even if you did, to suggest you'd behave like that is clearly idiotic. When Bob called you out on that idiocy, the dummy came out. Your assumption re. my vote the other day is equally juvenile, especially as I mentioned whom I'd most likely vote for (and, in fact, who I did vote for) on that other thread of yours. For someone who claims to be scientific, you're not that good at it really. I do understand, really I do. You're just p!ssed that Spieth and now Fowler have just chucked your commentary on them being all show and no substance back in your face.
Moving on....

I thought spitting in the cup was quite funny. No worse than spitting on any other part of the course.

Sergio has won one minor PGATournament in the last 7 years and that was nearly 3 years ago.

Yet he has been a fixture in the top 20, mostly in the top 10 in the last three years.

Can't argue about Sergio's performance yesterday though; missed opportunities in the middle of his round, but he holed several clutch putts and a couple of snakes. Hopefully he'll kick on from that effort.
But you're right, time to turn some of those seconds in to WINs!

Another good tournament from Sergio, safe to say he never threw it away, Fowler (is that the overrated Fowler?) came and grabbed it. Well done to both and Kisner of course good tournament from him too.

super_realist wrote:I thought spitting in the cup was quite funny. No worse than spitting on any other part of the course.

I wouldn't fancy being the next guy to retrieve my sputum-covered Titleist from that cup

incontinentia wrote:

super_realist wrote:I thought spitting in the cup was quite funny. No worse than spitting on any other part of the course.

I wouldn't fancy being the next guy to retrieve my sputum-covered Titleist from that cup

Simple, use a Molitor...

incontinentia wrote:

super_realist wrote:I thought spitting in the cup was quite funny. No worse than spitting on any other part of the course.

I wouldn't fancy being the next guy to retrieve my sputum-covered Titleist from that cup

That's what caddies are for... jk

I would suggest you never play a tournament course shortly after the tour has been there as spitting seems to be fairly pandemic.  Actually spitting in the cup increase the likelihood of phlegmy fingers, but given the amount Woods, Furyk (yep, Gentleman Jim is one of the worst offenders), DJ etc. hack up onto the course, your ball has probably run through some at some stage.

EDIT - sorry Kwini, your excellent thread seems to have been hijacked again, but in mitigation, most of the off topic stuff has been after the tournament.

My mate gets bad hayfever and the amount of times he hawks a loogie is incredible. I would have thought dehydration would become a serious risk at some point.

No problem Bob, Anything to defend Sergio . . . . . . . . . . .

According to pgatour.com, Rickie's closing out effort of five under par for the final four holes to win was the lowest closing finish by a winner since they started keeping such records in 1983.
My crack researcher reckoned I should have had a butcher's at Steve Lowery's finish to The International in 2002. Lowery finished: birdie, hole-out-eagle, bogey, hole-out(obviously)-albatross, missed 10 footer for birdie, which he needed to overtake Rich Beem.

I know it was the Euro Tour, but Peter O'Malley's eagle-birdie-birdie-birdie-eagle finish to steal the '92 Scottish Open from Monty must rank as one of the all-time best finishes.

It's always going to be a little subjective and I don't think pure numbers is the only measure. In the case of Fowler, his finish was over what has traditionally been a score wrecker, not a win maker stretch of holes. O'Malley's is an amazing run of scores though for sure and it would be interesting to see the various finishes normalised for stroke index and average field score.

Yes, I'd agree Fowler's finish was far more impressive. Gleneagles was playing easy that year, not something you can ever really say about Sawgrass (perhaps with the exception of 1994).

You guys will dismiss this as the delusions of a tiger fan boy.  But Tigers birdie, birdie finish in the 2000 PGA champ was pretty good in context.   I know it was only against Bob May, but looking back it did sort of epitomize what tiger was all about back in his pomp.  What other player when faced by someone on fire and shooting 66 in the final round of a major to apply an extreme amount of pressure would actually have been able to avoid buckling? And remember how hard May pushed him all day, in particular the back nine.

We have a player with nothing to loose shooting the best round of his life vs someone who has all the pressure in world the heaped on him.  And somehow tiger maintains his resolve and makes 2 birdies in must make circumstances.

Great shout Seve, that's the best against par that I can think of.
Doesn't really matter how the course was set up, remember Rickie only had wedges into #17 and #18 with all three final pin positions set up to filter the precise approach towards the hole. But he still had to make the shots and hole the putts.


Mac,
That second birdie was on a reachable Par-5, surely? Can't imagine Woods had more pressure on him than Rickie.

On a related point it's sobering now to watch Tiger miss putts he used to hole in his sleep. That must affect his course management all the way through the bag, knowing he has to get his approach close to sniff a chance at making it (and still missing most of 'em).

Kwini

Don't agree that Rickie faced more pressure than anyone trying to win a major while involved in a tight battle.

Well, you wouldn't, would you??!!

No. Do you equate the pressure faced in winning the players with that faced while winning a major. I don't and didn't think that would be a position with which you would take issue.

For example I rate Charls masters finish above what Fowler did at the Players.

Mac,
I don't think anyone said that this was the worldy finish of all time; I noted that it was the lowest score against par on the PGA Tour since records began, but anything else is somewhat subjective.

But as you don't read what you comment on you wouldn't care about that.

kwinigolfer wrote:No problem Bob, Anything to defend Sergio . . . . . . . . . . .

According to pgatour.com, Rickie's closing out effort of five under par for the final four holes to win was the lowest closing finish by a winner since they started keeping such records in 1983.
My crack researcher reckoned I should have had a butcher's at Steve Lowery's finish to The International in 2002. Lowery finished: birdie, hole-out-eagle, bogey, hole-out(obviously)-albatross, missed 10 footer for birdie, which he needed to overtake Rich Beem.

Kwini, didn't some player on the PGA tour not finish with 7 birdies last year to pip Sergio to a win? Can't remember his name.

McLaren wrote:No.  Do you equate the pressure faced in winning the players with that faced while winning a major.  I don't and didn't think that would be a position with which you would take issue.

For example I rate Charls masters finish above what Fowler did at the Players.

I don't. Fowler's regulation play finish maybe, but not when you factor in what Fowler did in the playoff in addition.

Sand,
Yup, Kevin Streelman, at Hartford.

Thanks to Sand's jog of the Streelman memory, the most birdies to close out a win before Streels's 7 was 6, back in the ties by Mike Souchack.
Closing out a win with five straight birds were: Nicklaus, Weiskopf and Russell Henley (a couple of years ago in his battle with Tim Clark).

kwinigolfer wrote:Sand,
Yup, Kevin Streelman, at Hartford.

There seems to be a conspiracy of great finishes to keep Sergio from winning.






If there could just be a conspiracy to keep him from whining.

FFS - can we let this all drop and stop being so juvenile? This is one of the reasons why I left this Forum for a while. I thought this was a place for intelligent discussions about golf and occasionally a bit of light-hearted banter - not this character assassination both of golfers (who, incidentally, we only know from TV) and each other (who we only know mostly from this Forum and not personally).

kwini

I read and understood all your posts, or at least I thought I understood them all.

When wrote "Well, you wouldn't, would you??!!" I interpreted this as you assuming I would rate a finish higher just because you think I don't like Fowler or Garcia and needed a way to deny how good Ricks finish was.

Hence my response that it is really just that majors apply more pressure on a player, at the end and throughout the week.

hence the reason for asking "Do you equate the pressure faced in winning the players with that faced while winning a major". As for me, Ricks finish was not completed under the same conditions those contending in a major would face.

The End Mac, as I'd prefer to have a dialogue with Lady Putt than you.


But, and close your eyes LP, there's partial character assassination in the latest expose by the Undercover Tour Pro, as he accuses a "veteran player, a guy who has made well over $10M . . . . . one of the nicest guys you'll ever play with, pleasant and upbeat (who now) has the reputation as somebody you have to watch. It will follow him when he gets on the Champions Tour".

Perhaps that means a respected veteran who's had a decent career but not great, and who is nearing the Champions Tour.

A few guys could fit that bill. The Undercover Tour Pro must be pretty peeved at the alleged transgression as he writes of nothing else. Surprised it passed the editors as this is arguably smearing a few guys who fit the description.

Hi Kwini - do you have a link? Or alternatively a summary of the transgression(s) and the list you think fits the description?

Hi Bob,
Can't find it on-line, but it'll be in June's Golf Digest.
I'm really against innuendo and allegations made (like Gary Player's drug crap years ago), so I'm not going to speculate who he's talking about.
But I'll post the career moneylist and see if you can make your own mind up as to who it might be, who might fill the bill:

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.014.html

The allegation in question regarded a lost ball and mysterious reappearance of said ball in the nick of time.

But sergio is a long way off the champions tour?

Sergio playing with Fran Molinari in Espana.
Great to see the European swing of the European Tour underway at last.

The daily heil claiming tiger was sagging around again. Guess that was pretty obvious. He pulled out of the farmers classic with a bad back, ddidn't stop him pulling out..I won't continue that. He just goshagging and not tie himself down. Fk what the media say.

Yips, hips, chips. You name it. Tiger has to re-discover what works for him: T!ts.

pedro wrote:Yips, hips, chips. You name it. Tiger has to re-discover what works for him: T!ts.