Who are McGeechan's two loose cannons?

From today's Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11610066/Manu-Tuilagi-axe-will-damage-Englands-World-Cup-hopes-but-it-was-the-right-call.html

I will admit that over the four tours that I was head coach of the Lions there were two players whom I did not pick because I was worried about their off-field behaviour. They were never convicted of anything, but there were enough examples for me to know that they were loose cannons on a night out.

Those two players do not know who they are, and they probably never will know, but they were picked as Lions and then taken off the list after I had had conversations with the various national coaches. I felt that I could not trust those players in the environment away from training and the matches on tour.

Geech was head coach in 1989, 1993, 1997 and 2009.

It's hard to imagine anyone being too loose a cannon back in the amateur days, but it could have been a player, or players, from that era because there was far less forensic scrutiny of selection in the press back then. When you think of some of the awkward characters Geech did select, it does make you think the excluded men must have had pitch black souls.

Two names which occur to me are Cipriani and Delon Armitage for the 2009 tour. I don't think either is too likely, though. Cipriani was a long shot in 2009, and only stood a chance because McGeechan knew him from Wasps. He wouldn't have needed any outside input from other coaches on the player's character. Armitage also had only an outside chance of selection that year, but was in good form and covered a lot of positions (full back, centre, wing and goal kicker). I don't think he had a particularly poor off-field reputation at that time, however, so I doubt it was him.

Any ideas?

More likely to be guys from the earlier years when the sots of things Tuialgi has done were par for the course as a rugby player.

Henson maybe?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Henson maybe?

That could only have been for the 2009 tour, and injury did for him on that occasion.

I did wonder whether it might be an awkward customer like Jeff Probyn, but McGeechan talks of these two as if they would be a serious liability with a few beers inside them.

Danny Care is a possibility, given that some thought he was unlucky to be behind Phillips, Ellis, O'Leary and Blair. It's hard to think he would have been seen as more of a loose cannon than Mike Phillips, though.

Surely it was still all french folks plying for twoloose in those days?

Hard to think of any one in '09 as Powell and Phillips were both picked for the '09 tour!

Maybe someone on the '99 tour?

If it was someone obvious, then it probably would have been discussed before. I never had Matt Stevens down as coke fiend before the Bath boys got busted. It might be someone unexpected like that. It also has to be someone who could make a Lions shortlist.

Possibly Simon Goeghegan? Probably the best or one of the best never to tour. Trevor Brennan?

Rugby Fan wrote:

Geech was head coach in 1989, 1993, 1997 and 2009.

If you're going to do an article at least get your facts right, Rugby Fan.

I think everyone knows at this stage that Geech was Head Coach in 1789, 1893, 1997 and 2009.

GunsGerms wrote:Possibly Simon Goeghegan? Probably the best or one of the best never to tour. Trevor Brennan?

Why do you assume the problem players were Irish?

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Possibly Simon Goeghegan? Probably the best or one of the best never to tour. Trevor Brennan?

Why do you assume the problem players were Irish?

Coz...coz...everyone else usually does???

No, seriously, you're right, I wouldn't think they were Irish.

Has Danny Care toured? Was he available through a Geech tour?
He could certainly be one.

Goeghegan is a good shout...unbelievable player...but I just don't seem him being trouble...but then you never know do you.

Peter Clohessy, Danny Grewcock or Peter Stringer.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Has Danny Care toured? Was he available through a Geech tour?
He could certainly be one.

Goeghegan is a good shout...unbelievable player...but I just don't seem him being trouble...but then you never know do you.

Geoghegan ruffled feathers in the IRFU because of his professionalism, not the other way round so don't think he is one of the players being alluded to as the reference is to off field discipline.

I'd laugh if it was Geoghegan.

A f**king ill mannered aggressive drunk who liked to Moon native girls of tender age????

Well, that beats the .......................... why wasn't this published at the time that he was a rascal?  The IRFU covered up that one good.  Maybe that's why the rest of the Ireland team were warned not to pass the ball out to him - too much publicity and the truth would then come out.

Peter Clohessy in 1997
Mike Tindall in 2009.

Thank you and good night.

Tindall?

Cant see it.

Can't see him being picked, or can't see him on the sauce?

Does it have to be sauce though?

Maybe they were just players that laughed at the guff Geech might have been inclined to dish out?

Some people are turned on by the 'emotion' of it - others probably can't fight off the giggles.  There are people and players of every hue and some of the gunge that gets spoken about De Lions would be a tad queasy to me if I was in a room stuffed with disciples

Tindall might not be a bad shout actually, he got his second drink drive ban around the time they wouldve been finalising thoughts on the 2009 squad. Even that certainly didnt sober him up. He was a nailed on England starter at that time.

Given the fact he says the players discussed were 'loose cannons' on a night out, I would guess that we are not talking about on pitch hardmen like Grewcock or Brennan but somebody less obvious.

If lunatics like Andy Powell could make the squad, goodness knows what these 2 would have done!

I don't keep up to date on Lions history (what players played in what tours etc) I could be well out here therefore, but could one of them been Henson? 2009? Or has he been mentioned already

Gooseberry wrote:Tindall might not be a bad shout actually, he got his second drink drive ban around the time they wouldve been finalising thoughts on the 2009 squad. Even that certainly didnt sober him up. He was a nailed on England starter at that time.

McGeechan said it was players who 'were never convicted of anything' though. Not sure if he means that to include since, which would also rule out Care.