Pro12 FINAL - Glasgow Warriors v Munster Rugby, 30 May

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31 GLASGOW WARRIORS v MUNSTER RUGBY 13
Saturday 30 May 2015
KO: 18:30
Ravenhill, Belfast

Live on Sky Sports/TG4/BBC Sport Scotland

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 127th competition game)
Assistant Referees: 1) Ian Davies, 2) Sean Brickell, 4) Gwyn Morris, 5) Wayne Davies (all WRU )
Citing Commissioner: Stefano Marrama (FIR)
TMO: Derek Bevan (WRU)

A. Head to Head - Aggregate

25 Played 25
9 Wins 15
15 Losses 9
1 Draws 1
46 Tries 63
36 Conversions 42
64 Penalties 54
1 Drop Goals 1
491 Points 564
25 Avg. Age 27

B. Head to Head - Recently

Sat 28 Feb 2015 - Munster Rugby 22 - 10 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 20 Dec 2014 - Glasgow Warriors 21 - 18 Munster Rugby

Fri 16 May 2014 (PO) -  Glasgow Warriors 16 - 15 Munster Rugby

Sat 12 Apr 2014 - Munster Rugby 5 - 22 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 25 Oct 2013 - Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby

C. Run-In

Glasgow Warriors

22/05/15 - Glasgow 16 - 14 Ulster

16/05/15 Glasgow 32 - 10 Ulster

08/05/15 Ospreys 21 - 10 Glasgow

Munster Rugby

23/05/15 Munster 21 - 18 Ospreys

16/05/15 Munster 50 - 27 Dragons

09/05/15 Ulster 23 - 23 Munster

D. Teams

Glasgow Warriors

Stuart Hogg, Tommy Seymour, Richie Vernon, Peter Horne, DTH van der Merwe, Finn Russell, Henry Pyrgos, Gordon Reid, Dougie Hall, Rossouw de Klerk, Leone Nakarawa, Jonny Gray, Rob Harley, Ryan Wilson, Josh Strauss (captain).

Replacements: Fraser Brown, Jerry Yanuyanutawa, Jon Welsh, Al Kellock, Chris Fusaro, Niko Matawalu, Duncan Weir, Sean Lamont.

Munster Rugby

Felix Jones; Keith Earls, Andrew Smith, Denis Hurley (captain), Simon Zebo; Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams; Dave Kilcoyne, Eusebio Guinazu, BJ Botha; Billy Holland, Paul O'Connell; Donnacha Ryan, Paddy Butler, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Sean Dougall, Jack O'Donoghue, Cathal Sheridan, JJ Hanrahan, Ronan O'Mahony.

What if the "Add to my foes" list is full??? Mine is

SecretFly wrote:What if the "Add to my foes" list is full???  Mine is

If that isn't a joke, then I didn't realise there was a limit. Maybe you just need to stop falling out with people!

SecretFly wrote:

profitius wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Who is the host?

Dara O'Brien.

He said they were a tuppence ha'penny club a few years back and asked the panel what changed. He could have asked in a more subtle way. They did give Glasgow plenty of praise.

AHA!  Sounds more like it.

My mistake - could have sworn it was Matt Cooper - looking the two of them up now they don't have that much resemblance either.

Must admit though it didn't come across like that to me - it was all how could the mighty Munster be beat so well from a little team.

SecretFly wrote:What if the "Add to my foes" list is full???  Mine is

According to my settings, there are only about 4 posters who use these boards.

I have nobody on my foes list, I am just not that precious.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

profitius wrote:

TJ wrote:I suggest we all ignore him - he is a nasty negative presence on these boards and best ignored.  I have blocked him cos his petulant whining is so annoying

Good idea. How do you block someone?

Click on his name then on the right hand side of the page click 'Add to my foes list'

Cheers. He was amusing at first but now its like someone telling the same joke over and over.

LordDowlais wrote:I have nobody on my foes list, I am just not that precious.

Well I am

RDW_Scotland wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What if the "Add to my foes" list is full???  Mine is

If that isn't a joke, then I didn't realise there was a limit. Maybe you just need to stop falling out with people!

Thanks for that. I think I might have to take one poster off my foe list to put Chunky on it...

Hmmmmmm, choices choices........................ him? No an out and out basterde! Him? - Nope, a two faced f**king liar. Him? - Nope owes me money.

I suppose it'll have to be a guy called George Carlin, that's been on my list since I arrived in this place.

LordDowlais wrote:I have nobody on my foes list, I am just not that precious.

Me either. I like everyone.

Until the very moment they make jokes about Glaswegians being unemployed, dole claiming, drug addicted, fried chocolate eating, pale blue, shell-suit wearing, gollum-like creatures from the Planet Incomprehensible. To be fair, most of the people who do that here are Edinburgh fans.

LordDowlais wrote:I have nobody on my foes list, I am just not that precious.

I ordered you numerous times to put me on your list because I didn't have any room left to put you on mine!

On a serious note though, I really do think people need to lighten up sometimes, we are all guilty of it though, sometimes what people type on this forum comes across differently to how you would say things, most of the time you can tell how people are behaving but I have not seen much good light hearted banter on here for ages.

There are too many people being quick to go on the attack before they digest what is written in front of them, take a few moments before replying, that is what I am going to be doing from now on.

George Carlin wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I have nobody on my foes list, I am just not that precious.

Me either. I like everyone.

Until the very moment they make jokes about Glaswegians being unemployed, dole claiming, drug addicted, fried chocolate eating, pale blue, shell-suit wearing, gollum-like creatures from the Planet Incomprehensible. To be fair, most of the people who do that here are Edinburgh fans.

Truth hurts?

Whats the weegie shampoo called? Go and Wash!

LordDowlais wrote:On a serious note though, I really do think people need to lighten up sometimes, we are all guilty of it though, sometimes what people type on this forum comes across differently to how you would say things, most of the time you can tell how people are behaving but I have not seen much good light hearted banter on here for ages.

There are too many people being quick to go on the attack before they digest what is written in front of them, take a few moments before replying, that is what I am going to be doing from now on.

Lord - like many of the posters on here I often disagree with you - however you articulate your ideas and debate reasonably. Its not an issue
I block 2 folk - chunky and the saint 'cos their incessant childish whining annoys me. If I were a mod I would ban them both

back to rugby: I see the Rev has moved on to Pau, newly promoted to the T14 and spending like MrsPip in Lakeside.

A load of ex-Munster players in Pau next season. Head coach is Munster's former backs coach Simon Mannix. Pau ran away with the league last year. Seems to be a great little club who now have loads of money. James Coughlan was released last year on his request to go there. Think he might have been their Player of the Year. Absolutely loves it there. Conrad Smith is also heading there. Paddy Butler & Sean Dougall (who is actually Scottish!) are heading there next season. If POC doesn't go to Toulon, that might be his second port of call.

Could we see a Munster exodus Sin?

One assumes Pau will soon attain the level of hatred currently reserved for Toulon and Saracens. Unless, of course, hypocrisy rears its head

Cyril wrote:One assumes Pau will soon attain the level of hatred currently reserved for Toulon and Saracens. Unless, of course, hypocrisy rears its head ;_

Pau should be way more of a hate target than Toulon. Because Toulon don't rely on a sugar daddy and make a profit.

Given that the Rev Murray has struggled a bit in the scrum this year in the Pro 12, I don't fancy his chances of holding his own in the T 14 next year. Pau have obviously been strengthening with the likes of Conrad Smith,  Bonnaire  and  Pierre from Clermont and the two Munster forwards. But it all starts with the scrum, if you cant hold your own in the scrum you have little chance of surviving in the T14.
I wonder if his holiness is going as the first choice 3 or as bench warmer?

Cyril wrote:One assumes Pau will soon attain the level of hatred currently reserved for Toulon and Saracens. Unless, of course, hypocrisy rears its head

Toulon are a nice bunch of retired Saffers, Kiwis and ex-pat brits hanging out getting rich in the sun, no harm in that - Sarries are a bunch of naturalized English with a token sociopathic Georgian getting paid big bucks, illegally,to smash people into a plastic pitch in London and but for Mark McCall being a upstanding fellow and proud Ulsterman, are the antithesis of all that is left decent in the game.

Probably.

rodders wrote:- Sarries are a bunch of naturalized English with a token sociopathic Georgian getting paid big bucks, illegally,

That's extremely litigous.

Haven't Saracens and Toulon academies just won their respective leagues? 2 Clubs that look to be doing alot of things right in my opinion.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

rodders wrote:- Sarries are a bunch of naturalized English with a token sociopathic Georgian getting paid big bucks, illegally,

That's extremely litigous.

Haven't Saracens and Toulon academies just won their respective leagues? 2 Clubs that look to be doing alot of things right in my opinion.

why doesn't that surprise me

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

rodders wrote:- Sarries are a bunch of naturalized English with a token sociopathic Georgian getting paid big bucks, illegally,

That's extremely litigous.

Haven't Saracens and Toulon academies just won their respective leagues? 2 Clubs that look to be doing alot of things right in my opinion.

why doesn't that surprise me

Is there a conspiracy that they are bulk buying 16 year olds now?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Cyril wrote:One assumes Pau will soon attain the level of hatred currently reserved for Toulon and Saracens. Unless, of course, hypocrisy rears its head ;_

Pau should be way more of a hate target than Toulon. Because Toulon don't rely on a sugar daddy and make a profit.

Pau don't have a sugar daddy like Toulon. They would be more like Clermont as they have a big oil & gas corporation behind them (Total Oil) who have their HQ in Pau.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

rodders wrote:- Sarries are a bunch of naturalized English with a token sociopathic Georgian getting paid big bucks, illegally,

That's extremely litigous.

Haven't Saracens and Toulon academies just won their respective leagues? 2 Clubs that look to be doing alot of things right in my opinion.

why doesn't that surprise me

Is there a conspiracy that they are bulk buying 16 year olds now?

Sounds like a good plot for Taken 4.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

rodders wrote:- Sarries are a bunch of naturalized English with a token sociopathic Georgian getting paid big bucks, illegally,

That's extremely litigous.

Haven't Saracens and Toulon academies just won their respective leagues? 2 Clubs that look to be doing alot of things right in my opinion.

why doesn't that surprise me

Is there a conspiracy that they are bulk buying 16 year olds now?

No, they are setting up relationships all over the world to help the poor locals out.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

rodders wrote:- Sarries are a bunch of naturalized English with a token sociopathic Georgian getting paid big bucks, illegally,

That's extremely litigous.

Haven't Saracens and Toulon academies just won their respective leagues? 2 Clubs that look to be doing alot of things right in my opinion.

why doesn't that surprise me

Is there a conspiracy that they are bulk buying 16 year olds now?

How is breaking and bending the rules the right way? Just because their academies are doing well doesn't mean those kids will make the first 15 and if they do breaking the rules in the meantime is hardly the right way

marty2086 wrote:

How is breaking and bending the rules the right way? Just because their academies are doing well doesn't mean those kids will make the first 15 and if they do breaking the rules in the meantime is hardly the right way

What rules / laws have Toulon / Saracens broken?

The point is that Toulon can't win when it comes to the jealous hordes of haters. They have the perfect business model to alow them to develop the best squad in the history of domestic rugby. They then get accused of just buying up pros and neglecting the bigger picture and the future of French rugby. So they invest hugely in their academy, and start to do well in the academy league, and people still accuse them of somethign or other beacsue it just isn't fair now is it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

How is breaking and bending the rules the right way? Just because their academies are doing well doesn't mean those kids will make the first 15 and if they do breaking the rules in the meantime is hardly the right way

What rules / laws have Toulon / Saracens broken?

The point is that Toulon can't win when it comes to the jealous hordes of haters. They have the perfect business model to alow them to develop the best squad in the history of domestic rugby. They then get accused of just buying up pros and neglecting the bigger picture and the future of French rugby. So they invest hugely in their academy, and start to do well in the academy league, and people still accuse them of somethign or other beacsue it just isn't fair now is it.

So the salary cap doesn't count then?

Toulon mighnt outright break the rules but they certainly circumnavigate them and operate their grey areas

marty2086 wrote:

So the salary cap doesn't count then?

Yes. Everything counts. What rules / laws have Toulon / Saracens broken? You're the one who's just claimed this, I'm just interested to find out which laws they've broken and how.

Toulon mighnt outright break the rules but they certainly circumnavigate them and operate  their grey areas

So Toulon don't break the rules then. Nothing to see there.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

So the salary cap doesn't count then?

Yes. Everything counts. What rules / laws have Toulon / Saracens broken? You're the one who's just claimed this, I'm just interested to find out which laws they've broken and how.

Toulon mighnt outright break the rules but they certainly circumnavigate them and operate  their grey areas

So Toulon don't break the rules then. Nothing to see there.

Until it was stopped, Saracens as had previously suspected and reported were under investigation for exceeding the salary cap

Toulon pay players through a separate company for certain aspects of their contracts and acknowledge that this would take them over the salary cap, in most parts of the world if money is to be contractually paid to you that's a salary

marty2086 wrote:

Until it was stopped, Saracens as had previously suspected and reported were under investigation for exceeding the salary cap

Oh. So it's just a guess then.

Toulon pay players through a separate company for certain aspects of their contracts and acknowledge that this would take them over the salary cap, in most parts of the world if money is to be contractually paid to you that's a salary

But Toulon don't play in most parts of the world. They play in France. Where they are not breaking any laws.

So in short, the statement "breaking the rules in the meantime is hardly the right way" was all down to speculation, and there's not a single shred of evidence to support your claims.

[Feels nice to say this for once and not be the one replying to it]

rodders wrote:

Cyril wrote:One assumes Pau will soon attain the level of hatred currently reserved for Toulon and Saracens. Unless, of course, hypocrisy rears its head

Toulon are a nice bunch of retired Saffers, Kiwis and ex-pat brits hanging out getting rich in the sun, no harm in that - Sarries are a bunch of naturalized English with a token sociopathic Georgian getting paid big bucks, illegally,to smash people into a plastic pitch in London and but for Mark McCall being a upstanding fellow and proud Ulsterman, are the antithesis of all that is left decent in the game.

Probably.

2 naturalised English (one of whom still apparently talks with the accent of the land where he grew up - Wales...) One with an English Parent, a few random nationalities (American and Scottish comes to mind) and a few Saffers. The rest are English. The 'sociopath' is Zimbabwean

Oh. So it's just a guess then

Well I thought I'd take your approach only mine is based o numerous news reports, an investigation and Sarries trying to lift the cap because its not big enough for them

But Toulon don't play in most parts of the world. They play in France. Where they are not breaking any laws.

So in short, the statement "breaking the rules in the meantime is hardly the right way" was all down to speculation, and there's not a single shred of evidence to support your claims.

No I've shown you Boudjellals statement saying that elsewhere before and cant be assed finding it again, in France salaries are the same but LNR choose not to enforce these payments as such

marty2086 wrote:

Oh. So it's just a guess then

Well I thought I'd take your approach only mine is based o numerous news reports, an investigation and Sarries trying to lift the cap because its not big enough for them

But Toulon don't play in most parts of the world. They play in France. Where they are not breaking any laws.

So in short, the statement "breaking the rules in the meantime is hardly the right way" was all down to speculation, and there's not a single shred of evidence to support your claims.

No I've shown you Boudjellals statement saying that elsewhere before and cant be assed finding it again, in France salaries are the same but LNR choose not to enforce these payments as such

So you must have seen conclusive evidence that the rest of us haven't seen. What did it say? How much are Sarries over the salary cap?

This doesn't offer conclusive evidence, but the42.ie is a very interesting read.

No problem with Toulon business myself but Saracens have debts of £40 millions, how is that "doing things right"?

VinceWLB wrote:No problem with Toulon business myself but Saracens have debts of £40 millions, how is that "doing things right"?

Toulon make a profit. Saracens make massive losses. I don't see that the two should be compared as being equivalent to each other.

VinceWLB wrote:No problem with Toulon business myself but Saracens have debts of £40 millions, how is that "doing things right"?

Different teams have different models. I'd just like to see a claim backed up with evidence, seeing as I've been asked for the same on a virtual daily basis recently.

It's crazy that a club is operating at a £41m loss. And to think they have fallen into so much debt without even breaking the salary cap

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Different teams have different models.

Yeah, got that down in my notepad.  Pro12 Final; Glasgow v Munster; Wed 3rd June; 7:23pm

Munchkin wrote:This doesn't offer conclusive evidence, but the42.ie is a very interesting read.

Jaysus in a Smart car, Toulouse don't seem to be getting much success for EURO35m per season.

Munchkin wrote:It's crazy that a club is operating at a £41m loss. And to think they have fallen into so much debt without even breaking the salary cap

That's just speculation though. I'm attacked when I do the same with Irish wages or TMOs etc. Even though the logical points all lead to he same part of the track each time.

Can you see the hypocrisy here?

With the top tier operating under a €10million salary cap per season, Toulon president Mourad Boudjellal has admitted to channeling some of his expenditure on players through separate companies, thereby reducing Toulon’s budget.

So is the Boudjellybaby scum or a genuis?

George Carlin wrote:

Munchkin wrote:This doesn't offer conclusive evidence, but the42.ie is a very interesting read.

Jaysus in a Smart car, Toulouse don't seem to be getting much success for EURO35m per season.

You realise that's their planned income budget yes?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Munchkin wrote:This doesn't offer conclusive evidence, but the42.ie is a very interesting read.

Jaysus in a Smart car, Toulouse don't seem to be getting much success for EURO35m per season.

You realise that's their planned income budget yes?

Sure - my point is that the same methodology is used to calculate all of these comparative numbers.

George Carlin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Munchkin wrote:This doesn't offer conclusive evidence, but the42.ie is a very interesting read.

Jaysus in a Smart car, Toulouse don't seem to be getting much success for EURO35m per season.

You realise that's their planned income budget yes?

Sure - my point is that the same methodology is used to calculate all of these comparative numbers.

Which is?

Toulouse won't get much for their money until they pull their finger out and buy/develop a 10 who can actually control a game. Maybe Noves moving on will be good for them. He's such a legend there he had the job for life but he hasn't put together a convincing side for years.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:It's crazy that a club is operating at a £41m loss. And to think they have fallen into so much debt without even breaking the salary cap

That's just speculation though. I'm attacked when I do the same with Irish wages or TMOs etc. Even though the logical points all lead to he same part of the track each time.

Can you see the hypocrisy here?

Ha! You were waiting in the shadows to pounce with this gem

No, I don't see the hypocrisy. First off, I didn't claim anything as fact. Next,The Mail which reported it provides their source;

"Saracens now owe £41.6m, according to new filings at Companies House"

Nice try

Munchkin wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Munchkin wrote:It's crazy that a club is operating at a £41m loss. And to think they have fallen into so much debt without even breaking the salary cap

That's just speculation though. I'm attacked when I do the same with Irish wages or TMOs etc. Even though the logical points all lead to he same part of the track each time.

Can you see the hypocrisy here?

Ha! You were waiting in the shadows to pounce with this gem

No, I don't see the hypocrisy. First off, I didn't claim anything as fact. Next,The Mail which reported it provides their source;

"Saracens now owe £41.6m, according to new filings at Companies House"

Nice try

Didn't think so.

Still not received any evidence to back up the claims. Hypocrisy from the best hypocrites in the world.