Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May

         
BATH RUGBY v SARACENS
Saturday 30 May 2015
KO: 14:30
Twickenham

Live on BT Sport

Referee: Wayne Barnes (156th Premiership game, 6th final).
Assistant Referees: JP Doyle & Greg Garner.
TMO: Graham Hughes.

A. Head to Head - Aggregate

38 Played 38
13 Wins 23
23 Losses 13
2 Draws 2
82 Tries 87
68 Conversions 60
82 Penalties 107
2 Drop Goals 4
798 Points 888
26 Avg. Age 27

B. Head to Head - This Season

Sun 15 Feb 15: Saracens 34 - 24 Bath Rugby

Fri 3 Oct 2014: Bath Rugby 21 - 11 Saracens

C. Run-In

Bath Rugby

23/05/15 Bath 47 - 10 Tigers

16/05/15 Bath 50 - 30 Gloucester

08/05/15 Quins 26 - 27 Bath

Saracens

23/05/15 Saints 24 - 29 Saracens

16/05/15 L Welsh 17 - 68 Saracens

10/05/15 Saracens 20 - 24 Chiefs

D. Teams

Bath Rugby

Watson; Rokoduguni, Joseph, Eastmond, Banahan; Ford, Stringer; James, Batty, Wilson, Hooper (capt), Attwood, Burgess, Louw, Houston.

Replacements: Webber, Auterac, Thomas, Day, Garvey, Fearns, Cook, Devoto.

Saracens

Goode; Strettle, Taylor, Barritt, Wyles; Farrell, Wigglesworth; M. Vunipola, George, Du Plessis, Kruis, Hargreaves (capt), Itoje, Burger, B. Vunipola.

Replacements: Brits, Barrington, Figallo, Hamilton, Wray, de Kock, Hodgson, Ashton.

Knightley wasn't born in Barnet.

Welly wrote: Knightley wasn't born in Barnet.

Yes, but she is one of the foremost beauties of her time and in the face of this, straightforward issues of geographical inaccuracy are rendered largely irrelevant in my view. Barnet is in London. Teddington is in London. Ergo, that's a bingo.

Yeh but Teddington is Richmond which is Harlequins country.

At least go for someone in a near Borough like Kacey Barnfield who is from Hackney

Fair enough Welly. I went with the SFW version.

Sorry GC but I prefer Welly's version, especially the first the picture but no longer have a clue what I was going to type in regards to next weeks game.

...................Was there something about a naked rugby match here?

Funny you mention Kacey Barnfield. Her uncle,aunt and cousins are family friends.

I am not sure if she has personally gone to a game but I know her relatives have.

I think she's an appropriate choice.

As for the game itself.

Wilson vs Vunipola - 3 vs 1 - both will be looking to be no 1 tighthead and loosehead respectively for England - getting the better of their rival might give them the edge.

Burgess vs Itoje - similar yet different - both media darlings, both similar height and weight, both talented and yet inexperienced, both with much to prove.

Louw vs Burger - South African muscle vs Namibian muscle.

Ford vs Farrell - you could argue that both representative the styles of their teams. Ford - more attacking but has added some steel with more experience under his belt than last season. Farrell - physical, unrelenting and strong defensively.

Eastmond vs Barritt - again represents the two styles - the smaller attacking centre vs one of the best defensive centres in England.

Watson vs Goode - Slightly different. Watson has the pace and great attacking talents but Goode has a brilliant rugby brain and is consistent. His only real weakness being a lack of pace. Goode is much maligned but he's been a reliable asset to Saracens at 15. Both players can create - but they have contrasting methods.



The key for Saracens will to be to keep the penalty count low (the discipline vs Saints was poor) - by doing this they will prevent Bath cheap field position.

Saracens have been hurt many times in recent weeks from close range tries - not long range efforts.

Exeter,Clermont and Saints have all scored their tries in recent weeks from close range.

Wayne Barnes is the ref in the final. Saracens should study his style. Every ref has parts of the game they ref differently.

Case in point - Garner who made it close to impossible to stop a lineout drive legally - resulting in 3 of the 4 tries being lineout drives. To be fair at least he was consistent but identifying these interpretations is important.

Beshocked - you wouldn't say that Duncan Taylor did enough to keep his place?
Or is he just a comfortable bench slot for a utility back?

I would say he has done enough to keep his place but we'll see what Mccall does.

Taylor helped set up the Strettle try and he did his bit in the Saracens defensive effort.

If Saracens need an utility back then Wyles can easily be moved to the bench - Ashton to 14 and Strettle to 11.

I would pick this team:

1.Vunipola
2.George
3.Du Plessis
4.Hargreaves
5.Kruis
6.Itoje
7.Burger
8.Vunipola

9.Wigglesworth
10.Farrell
11.Strettle
12.Barritt
13.Taylor
14.Ashton
15.Goode

16.Barrington
17.Brits
18.Figallo
19.Hamilton
20.Wray/Brown
21.De Kock
22.Hodgson
23.Wyles

Perhaps harsh on Wyles but he covers so well. Basically the only change would be Ashton in, Wyles to the bench.

Could the photos not be of Bernie Madoff and Charles Ponzi, it might be a little more accurate...

If the final is anything like the 2 semi-finals then this should be a cracker. Joking aside, 2 very deserving sides in the final. Sarries play wonderfully clinical rugby, whilst Bath have developed a blitzkrieg style which is so effective. As much as it pains me to say it, but I'd like Bath to win.

I'd like Bath to win simply because they haven't in a while (ever?). But then it's been a few years for Saracens so I'm not that fussed if they do.  Glad it's not Saints or Tigers (again, simply due to then being the last two winners).  Hopefully both will be on form and it'll be a cracker

So how much time do you guys take researching those photos?

lostinwales wrote:So how much time do you guys take researching those photos?

My research team toils tirelessly for hours in search of geographically appropriate and aesthetically pleasing individuals to be team representatives on my match threads. This is because I care deeply about the soft soil into which the shy, peeping seeds of banter are spread*.

* About 4 minutes at most.

Don't you have them all in some kind of book that you keep...

It's a Special File on his computer.

Will you be going to the post office to register to get access to those files?

I'd say we should be looking at the battle for England's 12 shirt on Saturday. Either you go with the Bath midfield or you add Barritt in for his defensive solidity. I don't think Burrell showed enough in either attack or defence in the Six Nations and I don't think Twelvetrees is nearly consistent enough (or if you were being harsh, he is too consistently mediocre with only flashes of brilliance).

Obviously you have two very different players in Eastmond and Barritt. Eastmond is much better with ball in hand while Barritt is obviously more of a destroyer, offering more defensive solidity and a presence at the ruck, as well as a more direct carrying game.

I'd suggest with England's lack of big carriers, Barritt might get the nod to allow the rest of the team to "play around him", as it were, with Barritt hitting up bad ball and good ball being spun out to the outside backs. But if Eastmond can outplay Barritt at Twickenham, then you would imagine that Lancaster may be swayed.

Are Bath turning into the equivalent of Arsenal in the 90s?

A bit, sort-of, 'no one likes us, we don't care'?

You mean Saracens surely George?

More like we will break the salary cap and we don't care.

George Carlin wrote:Are Bath turning into the equivalent of Arsenal in the 90s?

A bit, sort-of, 'no one likes us, we don't care'?

When did we take Saracens' title?

George Carlin wrote:Are Bath turning into the equivalent of Arsenal in the 90s?

A bit, sort-of, 'no one likes us, we don't care'?

That would be Sarries.

Bath more like Manchester United - just without the attendances.

I want Bath to win this because they play rugby with the sole intention of outscoring their opponents, while Sarries aim is to concede less. In general Sarries defence led approach is usually more successful, but for a neutral Bath's attack led approach far more pleasant to behold.

Bathite wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Are Bath turning into the equivalent of Arsenal in the 90s?

A bit, sort-of, 'no one likes us, we don't care'?

When did we take Saracens' title?

Got it.

If Bath come out in the form they did v Tigers I really think Sarries will struggle to match them.

It wasn't just the attacking play...the likes of Attwood put in an immense defensive performance and Fearns, Garvey are all quality and huge.

Could be a long day at the office for Sarries if Bath get their tails up.

An interesting side bar to this is that we have the two incumbent England 10s playing. Will be interesting to see how they fare and contrast their performances.

If Bath play like they did against Leicester they will lose.

Also Bath are like Chelsea.

Think if they score with any chance they have they'll be a handful for anyone. A lot depends on how they cope with the inevitable rush defence and kicking game obviously. Some teams go to pieces and start to panic. Think Ford has the class to play his own game here and he'll as ever be key as to whether Bath can be victorious.

Welly wrote: If Bath play like they did against Leicester they will lose.

I am not so sure. Sarries are not a team that likes having the ball, so if Bath judiciously use the boot and the pass as they did against us - and of course continue to defend well - they should win.

However I expect Sarries to win as I they will be trying to make sure that Bath are always having to play from deep in their own half and will be looking to make Bath concede penalties when they try and run from so deep.

LondonTiger wrote:

Welly wrote: If Bath play like they did against Leicester they will lose.

I am not so sure. Sarries are not a team that likes having the ball, so if Bath judiciously use the boot and the pass as they did against us - and of course continue to defend well - they should win.

However I expect Sarries to win as I they will be trying to make sure that Bath are always having to play from deep in their own half and will be looking to make Bath concede penalties when they try and run from so deep.

Just saying IF James starts Saracens should have the edge in the scrum.

Saracens have a decent kicker who can handle pressure (Burns is a good kicker but pressure gets to him).

The fact was if Burns and Bell had there kicking boots on we would have gone into Lead 21 - 24 now our defence has been weak against wide attacks and bath exploited that but Saracens are not.

Saracens are a lot more clinical than us and if bath give the possession and territory they gave us they will lose.

Now we know there is rampant and systematic salary cap abuse if teams are able to field Greek deities. Then again I've always suspected Mulipola as being a modern day Eros so perhaps our club isn't squeaky clean either.

Whoops CBA changing it.

Don't know what you Lot are talking about

Welly wrote:
Saracens are a lot more clinical than us and if bath give the Poseidon and territory they gave us they will lose.

Gotta love autocorrect.

Thought I had gotten away with it then how long did you have that in quote for?

Don't know what you are talking about

Can only see a Sarries win to be honest, Bath couldn't keep hold of the ball for long periods against Leicester PussyCats against anyone else in the Prem (apart from Welsh, although they did score a bonus point vs Bath) they would have lost.

Sarries by 9pts. it will be dull to watch too.

Bath by 30+ ....and a thrilling game

Nah...I jest think it will be close...two quite different sides playing each other...

Saracens know how to win and have the perfect style of rugby for a tense final. Bath sadly have neither of those things. A lot will depend on whether the pack can get at least parity, if Burgess starts he needs to have the game of his (Union) life too. I think the Garvey/Fearns impact bench worked very well last week but they may not be able to do as much against the much tighter Sarries defence.

Last time I saw Bath win a final at Twickenham was 1996, so it is our turn really...!

Bathman_in_London wrote:Last time I saw Bath win a final at Twickenham was 1996, so it is our turn really...!

Hmm, less said about that final the better. My 10 year dislike of all things Bath related (which had started when I played for Bath University as a fresher and was asked by tom Hudson to go train with the Bath RFC boys) came to a head that day. been slowly ebbing away ever since, though each shot of a smug looking Bruce Craig does not help

To be honest I don't remember much from that final, just confusion as Back has his meltdown (we were at the far end so had no idea what was going on!). I would take another scrappy 1 point win at the weekend though...

Bruce Craig does have that sort of face doesn't he? I guess if I flew in from my mansion in the south of France for every home game I might look a little smug too .

Possible addition to the thread stats:
Amount spent above and beyond the salary cap.

At least we would know who to boo the most then

Gooseberry wrote:Possible addition to the thread stats:
Amount spent above and beyond the salary cap.

At least we would know who to boo the most then

Now come surely no one is breaking the cap rules.....

Make the players wear their Numbers, their Names AND their Actual Salary declarations on their shirts??

That way there could be an Individualisation of booing that would add to the carnival atmosphere.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Possible addition to the thread stats:
Amount spent above and beyond the salary cap.

At least we would know who to boo the most then

Now come surely no one is breaking the cap rules.....

Of course, although Bath & Saracens beginning next season on minus 20 points may give us a clue.

As hard as it is for a die hard pro 12 fan to admit...I'm looking forward to this.

Would like to see Bath win but generally as a neutral observer it will be interesting to see the clash of styles here - the clash between Burger/Vainapolo and Burgess is worth watching alone.

Something tells me Sarries will take this due to having a bit more big game experience but Bath seem to be in unstoppable form so who knows.

Talking of salary caps, when do people think the last time a team winning the league were under the cap? I would go out on a limb and say never... Certainly during the 2000's to say cheating was rampant would be an understatement.

Surely Italian restaurants don't count towards a salary?