Prime Tyson v prime Tua

by ONETWOFOREVER Mon 22 Jun 2015, 10:27 am

Late 80's Mike and mid 90's Tua

who wins

by **88Chris05** Mon 22 Jun 2015, 10:36 am

Tyson by wide decision. Just a different class of fighter to Tua, who benefits in a lot of head to head match ups becaue of his boogeyman reputation in my opinion. Tua could bang, but Tyson could bang and box and as great as Tua's left hook was, I can't see him one-shotting Tyson to a KO and he'll have a hard time hitting a peak Tyson with more than one big shot at a time.

by milkyboy Mon 22 Jun 2015, 10:49 am

was late 80's peak tyson or prime tyson though chris? I think you need to address this.

Whichever, Tua had a great chin, so gus tomato Tyson has to settle for wide points win.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 10:57 am

Anyone around in the 80s would be very wary about betting against Mike....

Apart from Ali...I wouldn't bet the house on any other heavyweight in history beating a Rooney-Mike...

Tyson k02..

by Strongback Mon 22 Jun 2015, 11:29 am

Tua had the most powerful left hook of any fighter I have seen so there is always that possibility he lands a good one. He struggled against taller guys like Lennox but coming up against a guy his own size would be interesting.

Tua also had a good chin so I could see him hanging around for a while but at some stage he gets pancaked.

by AdamT Mon 22 Jun 2015, 11:41 am

Tyson ko (probably late,Tua had a great chin). Styles make fights and Tua was tailor made for a Rooney trained Tyson.

by RanjitPatel Mon 22 Jun 2015, 11:46 am

Mid 90's Tyson v Tua would have been a good fight too. Tyson of both decades should win as he's just a better fighter but the 90's version may have a few hiccups on the way.

I don't rate Tua that highly though but I could see it being a great fight to watch.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 11:52 am

I think Hulk Prime Tyson takes Tua although not sure about Tomato Peak pre-Douglas Tyson.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 11:55 am

Prime Tyson ko 2
Peak Tyson ko 4......

by spencerclarke Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:07 pm

Tyson to be dq'ed Whistle

by Coxy001 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:12 pm

Tua KO 7

Wouldn't be scared. Had one of the best chins of all time. Massive left hook. Weathers the storm and knocks out a gassing Iron Mike.

by horizontalhero Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:15 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if this one turned into a boxing match rather than war- Tyson was smarter than given credit for, and in wild shoot out this becomes a pick 'em- both rock solid in the chin department, and huge punchers, and both demonstrated good stamina - may even be a edge to Tua in that department. But Tyson had much faster feet, better defense and a better boxing brain- I see him fighting an intelligent fight and taking a wide decision. Certainly can't see it being a quick KO for either man.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:16 pm

Coxy001 wrote:Tua KO 7

Wouldn't be scared. Had one of the best chins of all time. Massive left hook. Weathers the storm and knocks out a gassing Iron Mike.

by AdamT Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:16 pm

Coxy001 wrote:Tua KO 7

Wouldn't be scared. Had one of the best chins of all time. Massive left hook. Weathers the storm and knocks out a gassing Iron Mike.

Possibly the version that Lewis beat. Tyson did have amazing skills and good stamina when he was younger.

"prime" Tyson wasn't invincible (like Chuck Norris) but he was an amazing boxer. He would absolutely destroy Tua.

by **88Chris05** Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:19 pm

Adam, we're yet to find a hypothetical match up between Tyson and any fighter who's ever been ranked inside the top ten before or after the Iron Mike era which Coxy has actually picked Tyson to win, so don't be surprised.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:20 pm

Chuck Norris doesn't do pushups...he pushes the world down !!.

Terrorists only attack when Chuck Norris is homesick !!.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:25 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Adam, we're yet to find a hypothetical match up between Tyson and any fighter who's ever been ranked inside the top ten before or after the Iron Mike era which Coxy has actually picked Tyson to win, so don't be surprised.

Tyson's biggest problem is his most high profile fights happened post incarceration..........

Hence the Holy and Lewis fights are the most watched......

Tyson's speed, head to head movement and combination punching were awesome........Thomas, Tubbs, Holmes and Bruno were operators who'd rule now.......

Like I said I'd only confidently predict Ali to beat him in his pomp...............Not to say Bowe, Holy, Foreman and Lewis weren't in with a shout..

by AdamT Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:25 pm

The problem with Tyson is a double edged sword. To many, especially casuals, he is the most indestructible fighter to ever grace the planet.

Too many others, he is some overrated buffoon, who loses to everyone that isn't afraid of him.

He is neither of the above but he is closer to the former point. He doesn't have many Atg fighters in his resume but he made lots of really good fighters look poor.

He had power, speed, head movement, he was aggressive and threw many accurate combos. He also has a very underrate jab along with good defence.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:29 pm

What Boxing would give for a Tyson now....

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:51 pm

Tyson to win either by UD or by catching Tua late. Mind you, Tua would have a puncher's chance, especially against a guy the same height as him.

On this theme what about 'peak' Ibeabuchi (that's if he didn't go mad before reaching his peak) vs Tyson? Great stamina, great chin, too crazy to be scared of Tyson.

by Lance Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:57 pm

Tyson wins 8 or 9 times out of ten. An 80s Tyson looks for the KO all night long and he cant afford to slip up to a prime Tua. The slower 90s Tyson probably wins a decision every time

by Adam D Mon 22 Jun 2015, 1:58 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What Boxing would give for a Tyson now....

Prime Tyson v prime Tua Article-2430611-1BCD31F4000005DC-777_634x403

by Guest Mon 22 Jun 2015, 2:36 pm

If this fight goes beyond five rounds I favour Tua and the reason for this is because it was established long ago on the old 606 forum that Tyson's peak only lasted about fifteen minutes...there's a Desiree Washington joke in there somewhere but I'm far to classy for that sort of thing.

by AdamT Mon 22 Jun 2015, 3:00 pm

Nothing against Tua, he was a solid fighter. I can't comprehend Tyson losing to him. Am I overrating Tyson? Or am I being harsh on Tua?

by Guest Mon 22 Jun 2015, 3:09 pm

Adam D wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:What Boxing would give for a Tyson now....

Boxing wouldn't give a f*ck for this one

by AdamT Mon 22 Jun 2015, 3:17 pm

Looks really athletic in the first pic!!

by Mayweathers cellmate Mon 22 Jun 2015, 4:07 pm

Tua would be all wrong for Tyson. Tyson's whole game was bobbing, weaving, good head movement, getting on the inside of taller opponents and then hooking away - it'd be xmas comes early for Tua.

by Guest Mon 22 Jun 2015, 4:17 pm

AdamT wrote:Looks really athletic in the first pic!!

Looks like he's trespassing in that second pic!!

by AdamT Mon 22 Jun 2015, 4:18 pm

Do you not think Tyson could use his speed and his superior jab to out box Tua?

Or perhaps he could land 4 and 5 punch combos until the ref Sees enough.

Personally I would rather be much taller than Tyson, than be his size!

Taller fighters can tie him up and try to keep him on the outside using a good stiff jab and reach.

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 22 Jun 2015, 4:22 pm

Tyson probably by SD, left a a shell of what he was and crying uncontrollably under Adalaide Byrds skirt while Truss uses a blacksmiths bellows up her arse trying to keep her full of hot air and loudly and proudly A-merican

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 4:25 pm

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Tua would be all wrong for Tyson. Tyson's whole game was bobbing, weaving, good head movement, getting on the inside of taller opponents and then hooking away - it'd be xmas comes early for Tua.

Yeah a prime Tyson is an easy fight for somebody..

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Mon 22 Jun 2015, 4:54 pm

AdamT wrote:Do you not think Tyson could use his speed and his superior jab to out box Tua?

Or perhaps he could land 4 and 5 punch combos until the ref Sees enough.

Personally I would rather be much taller than Tyson, than be his size!

Taller fighters can tie him up and try to keep him on the outside using a good stiff jab and reach.

Perhaps, but taller fighters couldn't always tie up Tyson or keep him at bay precisely because his movement was so good. Tua didn't have those same skills and height was therefore more of an advantage for Tua's opponents than Tyson's. So, I'd argue that Tua gains more than Tyson from fighting someone his own height.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 4:56 pm

Like Marvis Frazier, Bruce seldon and Buster Mathis jr...

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 22 Jun 2015, 5:00 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
AdamT wrote:Do you not think Tyson could use his speed and his superior jab to out box Tua?

Or perhaps he could land 4 and 5 punch combos until the ref Sees enough.

Personally I would rather be much taller than Tyson, than be his size!

Taller fighters can tie him up and try to keep him on the outside using a good stiff jab and reach.

Perhaps, but taller fighters couldn't always tie up Tyson or keep him at bay precisely because his movement was so good. Tua didn't have those same skills and height was therefore more of an advantage for Tua's opponents than Tyson's. So, I'd argue that Tua gains more than Tyson from fighting someone his own height.

Theres also Tysons preference for the midrange JB. Think He'd just outbox Tua and take a serious shellacking in the meantime. So while its more of an advantage for Tua its not without its own problems. Tua would have to stay on the outside ... he hasn't the athleticism or completely on the inside where he'd probably smother his own work.

by ONETWOFOREVER Mon 22 Jun 2015, 5:01 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Tua would be all wrong for Tyson. Tyson's whole game was bobbing, weaving, good head movement, getting on the inside of taller opponents and then hooking away - it'd be xmas comes early for Tua.

Yeah a prime Tyson is an easy fight for somebody..

Haha

by AdamT Mon 22 Jun 2015, 5:07 pm

Tyson getting a wee tad underrated guys.

Watch his fights before prison. He is not invincible but he could bloody well box and fight.

by Atila Mon 22 Jun 2015, 5:20 pm

Tyson may be getting underrated by some these days, but he was very overrated when he was fighting and in his pomp. That said, I'd pick him to beat Tua but I don't think it would be easy and I don't have a problem with anyone picking Tua.

Tua was tough and a little bigger than Tyson. I don't see Tyson bullying Tua around. Another thing about Tua is that he could throw a lot of punches like he did against Ibeabuchi. Pick Tyson though as he was a fast starter and he definitely punched hard enough to stop or KO Tua.

The longer the fight goes though, the better Tua chances become.

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Mon 22 Jun 2015, 5:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like Marvis Frazier, Bruce seldon and Buster Mathis jr...

I'm assuming that was aimed at my comment Truss? My point wasn't that Tyson wasn't dominant against smaller fighters (although it wouldn't be too hard to create a similar list of guys 6'3"+ that he pancaked), or that Tua would beat Tyson.

My point was simply that Tua suffers more from fighting bigger/ taller guys, since he didn't have Tyson's ability to close the distance, except by bulldozing.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jun 2015, 6:29 pm

AdamT wrote:Tyson getting a wee tad underrated guys.

Watch his fights before prison. He is not invincible but he could bloody well box and fight.

If Robinson was fighting now people would be peeing on him for being outboxed by the ordinary Turpin..

No one is immune to being crapped on unless they were born before WW2.

by Strongback Mon 22 Jun 2015, 7:16 pm

Are you thinking Gene Tunney?

by Mayweathers cellmate Mon 22 Jun 2015, 7:27 pm

AdamT wrote:Do you not think Tyson could use his speed and his superior jab to out box Tua?

Or perhaps he could land 4 and 5 punch combos until the ref Sees enough.

Personally I would rather be much taller than Tyson, than be his size!

Taller fighters can tie him up and try to keep him on the outside using a good stiff jab and reach.

Tyson jab and move?

Tyson's plan A would play right into Tua's hands and he didn't have a plan B. His whole style was based on getting inside taller opponents and working away using his short stature and strength to his advantage. It would be disastrous tactics against Tua. You beat Tua by boxing off the back foot like Lewis did.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 22 Jun 2015, 7:36 pm

I don't rate Tyson as a boxer in the slightest but he was the greatest fighter in Heavyweight history; it seems simplistic to say but half the battle is not fearing him and it's safe to say that Tua wouldn't fear him at all. Tyson wins by virtue of being quicker and generally more mobile however he does't drop or knock Tua out ever so it's a distance fight unless that left hook lands which it might in a series of fights.

by AdamT Mon 22 Jun 2015, 7:37 pm

Tyson has a good jab that would set him up for his attacks.

He would be hiding his chin behind his peek a boo guard. Tua is strong but he isn't fast enough to get off on Tyson.

Tyson also has a good chin so doubt Tua would get him out of there with one punch.

Tyson can box when he needs to. Granted he couldn't move like a Holmes or Ali but I bet he is fast enough to avoid Tua.

Anyway it would of been a cracking fight for sure.

by Mayweathers cellmate Mon 22 Jun 2015, 7:49 pm

Could Tyson fight going backwards?

If he's getting out muscled on the inside what's he going to do?

Of course he would have had a chance but it would be a brave man to bet against Tua in a tear up.

by catchweight Mon 22 Jun 2015, 7:54 pm

You cant write someone off completely when they have the power that Tua has, but you can come close to. This would be one of those times. Tyson was miles better than Tua. Miles.

by **88Chris05** Tue 23 Jun 2015, 4:47 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like I said I'd only confidently predict Ali to beat him in his pomp...............Not to say Bowe, Holy, Foreman and Lewis weren't in with a shout..

I think Tyson's head to head worth definitely outstrips his record on paper, Truss. Might seem a cop out to many, but I genuinely feel that Ali holds the lion's share of the aces against him and had the style / tools to be relatively dominant in a series between them. Think Tyson's struggling to beat him better than one in three.

Outside of that I'd maybe take Lewis and Foreman as favourites (in my mind) to beat him. Have wavered a bit on Lennox-Tyson before, but overall I think he's got the right mix of size, the jab, power, mental toughness, adaptability etc to deal with Tyson, although it'd only be narrow in my opinion. The more I think about it the more I find myself thinking that Foreman (who most pick to do a job lot on Tyson) isn't actually all that well suited to fighting Tyson in terms of how his strengths and weaknesses match up to those of the other guys I'd make favourites over him, but Foreman comes with the added bonus that he might just be able to blow Tyson away early and not give Tyson any chance to exploit his own flaws. Not sure any of the other elite Heavies have that cusion here.

Holyfield and Liston are pick 'ems for me. In terms of style Liston's got quite a lot going for him against Tyson, but I can't shake the feeling that he could be discouraged (much like Tyson) and that his lack of basic speed might be a problem for him. Find it hard to call either one of those.

I'd probably make Louis and Holmes marginal underdogs. I was going to put Holmes in the pick 'em category but I think Larry just got hit too much and wasn't good enough on the inside to control Tyson in the clinches like a few others could. Think Louis is too good to be disgraced and I'm not saying he loses every time, but feel that his slow starting, inability to close the gap with footwork as effectively as Tyson could and inferior chin give him a lot of problems to overcome.

Vitali and Frazier are also underdogs for me, just a bit more so than Louis and Holmes. Frazier's got the speed, in-fighting and work rate to trouble Tyson but not the size and jab, while Vitali's got the size and toughness but not the speed or in-fighting. I wouldn't totally rule either man out by Tyson would be a warm favourite in my opinion.

Below that, I don't really see Wlad, Marciano, Johnson, Jeffries, Walcott etc as any kind of threat barring a massive upset.

by AdamT Tue 23 Jun 2015, 5:06 pm

Excellent post Chris. No sarcasm, thoroughly enjoyed that and agree with nearly everything you say.

by milkyboy Tue 23 Jun 2015, 5:47 pm

The whole foreman being wrong for Tyson stems from the stories of Gus tomato telling mike that no pressure fighter could ever beat foreman... And that Tyson had a 'fear' of foreman. There were rumours he ducked a fight with old George c1990.

Who knows. I can see the argument that foreman was a beast who dished out beatings to Frazier... A not dissimilar style and size to Tyson... But I can't see how tysons speed and explosive power doesn't give him ways to get at George that others who fought him didn't have. Some see it as s foregone conclusion that George batters him, but it's not a fight I'd bet on with huge confidence.

Conversely, I'm one of the few who thinks that Larry big pants was just starting to look quite good against Tyson when he got stiffed. I think prime Larry could win on points but always runs the risk of getting pancaked early.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jun 2015, 6:10 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like I said I'd only confidently predict Ali to beat him in his pomp...............Not to say Bowe, Holy, Foreman and Lewis weren't in with a shout..

I think Tyson's head to head worth definitely outstrips his record on paper, Truss. Might seem a cop out to many, but I genuinely feel that Ali holds the lion's share of the aces against him and had the style / tools to be relatively dominant in a series between them. Think Tyson's struggling to beat him better than one in three.

Outside of that I'd maybe take Lewis and Foreman as favourites (in my mind) to beat him. Have wavered a bit on Lennox-Tyson before, but overall I think he's got the right mix of size, the jab, power, mental toughness, adaptability etc to deal with Tyson, although it'd only be narrow in my opinion. The more I think about it the more I find myself thinking that Foreman (who most pick to do a job lot on Tyson) isn't actually all that well suited to fighting Tyson in terms of how his strengths and weaknesses match up to those of the other guys I'd make favourites over him, but Foreman comes with the added bonus that he might just be able to blow Tyson away early and not give Tyson any chance to exploit his own flaws. Not sure any of the other elite Heavies have that cusion here.

Holyfield and Liston are pick 'ems for me. In terms of style Liston's got quite a lot going for him against Tyson, but I can't shake the feeling that he could be discouraged (much like Tyson) and that his lack of basic speed might be a problem for him. Find it hard to call either one of those.

I'd probably make Louis and Holmes marginal underdogs. I was going to put Holmes in the pick 'em category but I think Larry just got hit too much and wasn't good enough on the inside to control Tyson in the clinches like a few others could. Think Louis is too good to be disgraced and I'm not saying he loses every time, but feel that his slow starting, inability to close the gap with footwork as effectively as Tyson could and inferior chin give him a lot of problems to overcome.

Vitali and Frazier are also underdogs for me, just a bit more so than Louis and Holmes. Frazier's got the speed, in-fighting and work rate to trouble Tyson but not the size and jab, while Vitali's got the size and toughness but not the speed or in-fighting. I wouldn't totally rule either man out by Tyson would be a warm favourite in my opinion.

Below that, I don't really see Wlad, Marciano, Johnson, Jeffries, Walcott etc as any kind of threat barring a massive upset.

Pretty good analysis but some weak spots..

How is little Joe Louis going to keep Tyson off him ??......When Larry couldn't......He'd get murdered...

and Vitali he'd be dead in two....A slow lump with no defence I'd make him 50/1.....

Holyfield had it best "When I fought you..... you moved your head in a pattern"........."The old Mike didn't and you would have been a complete nightmare !!"....

Bowe, Lewis, Foreman and Ali are the only guys who would have a chance......Maybe Holy....He's all wrong for Frazier.

by **88Chris05** Tue 23 Jun 2015, 8:10 pm

Holmes and Louis bring totally different thing to the table, Truss. Louis could be overpowered but who's to say what happens when Tyson tastes his power? Louis was also a much better fighter inside or at close quarters than Holmes. He hasn't got Larry's jab and legs to keep Tyson outside but if he survives an early onslaught you can't rule out Louis taking over in my opinion, particularly as he endured until the late / championship rounds better than Tyson in general, too.

As I said, overall I think Tyson more often than not hurts Louis before he gets hurt himself, but with Louis' powers of recovery and own heavy artillery I don't think it's a completely forgone conclusion.

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