Yes yes yes, world cup and all that but what is it that will propel rugby beyond its niche global status? Discus'sting!

First topic message reminder :

Here we all are bathing in our pre tournament blather, anxious, excited,  and yes some of us even quite a bit more than a little dejected by the lost opportunity that presents before us, but we won't let that divert us(no precious we won't....ed). And yet what is the question, what is the present future, what is the taste on the wind that speaks portentously of progress - what is it that is going to propel this majestic code of rugby forth - beyond its niche status in the global sports market place?

Will it be our Rugby Union World Cup, undoubtedly the most successful rugby tournament ever to have existed? I fear not......

Will it be the antithesis of love, or as some describe it the franglaise relationship of the english premiership and the top 14....non mon’amie, for they are but mono excessives feeling and feeding only themselves, until they can no more. This is not the path we desire........

Indeed then what if the rugby codes reform 130 years poste haste. Merger most high, talent unbound, grotesque media mogulia australis......this will not do we must transcend the post empire commonwealth etc. etc.

So it is the Lions then? The Lions, all british and irish, irish and british, celtic and anglo and everything between and beyond yesteryear and before, a marketing man's forget-me-not of cheap gin and guinness, a drug we've all consumed far too much of so now our addiction is complete...NO NOT THE LIONS FOR THE LIONS ARE BEYOND THE PALE! DEATH TO THE LIONS!

Then what is the answer, tell me, I need to know?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind.........it is the Olympic rugby sevens; yes I know how mad is that? Yes the Olympics have accepted the shortened rugby code of 7 versus 7 and it is this code that will change the game. It is this event alone that will deliver rugby its chosen place amongst the sports world elite (a place so cruelly stolen by that association football) and so as Greece falls rugby will rise amount Olympus.

Isn't the RWC the third biggest event after the Olympics and the puff ball world cup.

Mind if they don't stamp out this diving and play acting malarkey that's growing in the game I'll be stopping watching it.

lostinwales wrote:

wolfball wrote:

Fanster wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:A quality pro league in US would help. For those who say it doesn't stand a chance against American Football it doesn't need to, last years AF season was 23 weeks of which 2 had 4 games 2 had 2 games & 2 had only 1 game a week that leaves alot of weeks that could be filled with rugby for those contact sports fans.

But theyre not contact sports fans, theyre NFL fans, and then college football fans!

American football is a way of life for a lot of people, and for the weeks within the regular season their is a pre season schedule, college schedule, and then prime time events such as the combine, draft etc... not to mention high school football which regularly draws crowds!

It doesn't help that rugby and American Football seem to compete world wide for who's the biggest, strongest, fastest etc, rugby has become a bit of an enemy to American football

Not only that I don't think unless you live over in the states one realises how obsessive "Fantasy Football (NFL)" isss.. And from all age groups. i work with hedge fund managers and even the guys in their 50s, all they want to talk about is their fantasy team. People will literally disapear half the year from all non-NFL social events. I've tried so many times to bring people to watch rugby, but its simply too slow for americans (ie not enough second to second action)... its an ADHD sporting public...

I can sort of believe it but given that an NFL game can last for what, 3 hours? - they are obviously good at blocking out the bits where nothing is happening at all.

yeah, slow is the wrong word maybe...

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

I'll raise you hurling - The oldest, fastest, most skillful sport known!

This is a good game here. All players are amateur.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc1t9VrhG34

Sky is now covering about 30 or 40 games a year now. Its becoming quite the cult game to watch in the UK. Joey Barton is now a big fan.

They showed Kilkenny v Wexford (Leinster Championship) on a sports chanel in Canada last week. The reaction on twitter is as usual hilarious. No one can figure it out. One tweeter wanted to know if the figures up in the corner were fatalities!

GunsGerms wrote:I dont want rugby to grow any bigger. With growth comes inevitable corruption and other negative side effects. Football for example for me is completely unwatchable because of all the cheating, corruption and other nonsense that comes with the ridiculous sums of money associated with the "sport". Professionalism and money is already beginning to ruin rugby particularly in the form of Toulon.

It is no surprise the that greatest sport in the world at the moment, gaelic football, is completely amature.

Just watched the excellent documentary on Paidi O Sé. Great scenes in Mullingar when Westmeath won the Leinster Championship for the first time. Were you there?

The only real time waster in rugby are scrum resets aren't they? Fixing those will be the holy grail.

I read an article in the NZ Herald today about the new ABs jersey that had grippy material/seems for the shirts worn by forwards. I can't recall if this is standard or being explored in other national jerseys?

"Forwards need something to grip on to at scrum and lineout time, so their jerseys boast proud, reinforced seams and grip panels. That innovation came partly at the behest of the IRB (now World Rugby), which watched on in horror in 2011 as the game buried itself in a mountain of collapsed scrums that were at least partly caused by the trend towards tight-fitting, grip-resistant jerseys.

Adidas reinvents the All Blacks jersey wheel every two years, and the iteration unveiled today is, in fact, the same one rolled out in London in November last year ahead of the All Blacks' 24-21 victory over England at Twickenham.

One of the things we looked for in the England v New Zealand game was how the scrummaging was going to go," said adidas' director of team sports Simon Cartwright. I think there was only one scrum that collapsed during the course of the game. It was a lot less than you would normally get and we were jumping up and down."

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11473665

Damn, hurling looks insane! What are the balls like, more cricket ball than tennis ball? Massive crowd in that Kilkenny v Tipperary final, awesome.

At this moment, I'm more exciting for the Ashes than the rugby world cup. Actual order of sporting excitments this summer.. 1.Ashes 2. Football season 3. Pro12 4. Rugby world cup

Sin é wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

I'll raise you hurling - The oldest, fastest, most skillful sport known!

This is a good game here. All players are amateur.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc1t9VrhG34

Sky is now covering about 30 or 40 games a year now. Its becoming quite the cult game to watch in the UK. Joey Barton is now a big fan.

They showed Kilkenny v Wexford (Leinster Championship) on a sports chanel in Canada last week. The reaction on twitter is as usual hilarious. No one can figure it out. One tweeter wanted to know if the figures up in the corner were fatalities!

Well that endorsement makes all the difference...

lostinwales wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

I'll raise you hurling - The oldest, fastest, most skillful sport known!

This is a good game here. All players are amateur.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc1t9VrhG34

Sky is now covering about 30 or 40 games a year now. Its becoming quite the cult game to watch in the UK. Joey Barton is now a big fan.

They showed Kilkenny v Wexford (Leinster Championship) on a sports chanel in Canada last week. The reaction on twitter is as usual hilarious. No one can figure it out. One tweeter wanted to know if the figures up in the corner were fatalities!

Well that endorsement makes all the difference...

3 million followers on twitter. He is an intelligent bloke. Hurling would have suited his temperment.

For comparision - david beckham 500K followers. Johnny Wilkinson 250K followers on twitter.

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

It isnt. I have been to the Lacrosse world cup final in Prague a few years ago and I have watched Duke play in North Carolina. It honestly isnt a patch on Gaelic football. Take a trip to the All Ireland championship in Croke Park and then make a call but trust me Lascosse does not come close.

I tried once. It was made perfectly clear that an Englishman was not wanted and would be lucky not to be hospitalised. So my hosts suggested we leave. Match had not even started.

Sin é wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

I'll raise you hurling - The oldest, fastest, most skillful sport known!

This is a good game here. All players are amateur.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc1t9VrhG34

Sky is now covering about 30 or 40 games a year now. Its becoming quite the cult game to watch in the UK. Joey Barton is now a big fan.

They showed Kilkenny v Wexford (Leinster Championship) on a sports chanel in Canada last week. The reaction on twitter is as usual hilarious. No one can figure it out. One tweeter wanted to know if the figures up in the corner were fatalities!

Well that endorsement makes all the difference...

3 million followers on twitter. He is an intelligent bloke. Hurling would have suited his temperment.

For comparision - david beckham 500K followers. Johnny Wilkinson 250K followers on twitter.

I know this is a silly digression, but its worth reading this paragraph from his wiki entry

Barton's career and life have been marked by numerous controversial incidents and disciplinary problems and he has been convicted twice on charges of violence. On 20 May 2008 he was sentenced to six months' imprisonment for common assault and affray during an incident in Liverpool City Centre.

You don't have to be smart to have a lot of followers on twitter, just a reputation for saying controversial rubbish.

I would'nt like to have my sport linked with someone of that temperament either. This is a rugby forum so we all like a little bit of violence. But it has to be controlled.

lostinwales wrote:

Sin é wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

I'll raise you hurling - The oldest, fastest, most skillful sport known!

This is a good game here. All players are amateur.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc1t9VrhG34

Sky is now covering about 30 or 40 games a year now. Its becoming quite the cult game to watch in the UK. Joey Barton is now a big fan.

They showed Kilkenny v Wexford (Leinster Championship) on a sports chanel in Canada last week. The reaction on twitter is as usual hilarious. No one can figure it out. One tweeter wanted to know if the figures up in the corner were fatalities!

Well that endorsement makes all the difference...

3 million followers on twitter. He is an intelligent bloke. Hurling would have suited his temperment.

For comparision - david beckham 500K followers. Johnny Wilkinson 250K followers on twitter.

I know this is a silly digression, but its worth reading this paragraph from his wiki entry

Barton's career and life have been marked by numerous controversial incidents and disciplinary problems and he has been convicted twice on charges of violence. On 20 May 2008 he was sentenced to six months' imprisonment for common assault and affray during an incident in Liverpool City Centre.

You don't have to be smart to have a lot of followers on twitter, just a reputation for saying controversial rubbish.

I would'nt like to have my sport linked with someone of that temperament either. This is a rugby forum so we all like a little bit of violence. But it has to be controlled.

How controversial is this from him?

Joseph Barton ‏@Joey7Barton Jun 20
Our culture allows mediocrity. In fact it celebrates it. We don't love winning or winners. The fallacy is that we actually believe we do.

His twitter feed is not your typical celeb footballer/rugby player. Thats why he has 3m followers.

I think the intensity of GAA would have suited him better than soccer. He did play rugby league by the way growing up.

There is too much war in the world. Stop the wars and you'd have more rugby. Simples.

So first step is to get a series of rugby matches set up between the Palestinians and the Israelis ( a test case series of Tests, as it were ) See how things pan out. See can we use rugby as a redirector of aggression off the streets and battlefields and into an air conditioned stadium that sells teeshirts, chups and beverages..........?

Our Joey is obviously a complex character. On the one hand spouting pseudo BS on Twitter, on the other getting himself sent off for elbowing someone in the face 5 minutes into a game that could have determined if his club (which he was captaining) was going to be relegated.

He might write interesting stuff but he would not have got as many followers if he was not such a controversial figure.

Still you are welcome to follow who you like

lostinwales wrote:Our Joey is obviously a complex character. On the one hand spouting pseudo BS on Twitter, on the other getting himself sent off for elbowing someone in the face 5 minutes into a game that could have determined if his club (which he was captaining) was going to be relegated.

He might write interesting stuff but he would not have got as many followers if he was not such a controversial figure.

Still you are welcome to follow who you like

I don't follow him. Probably a bit surprised at his intelligence.

Lots of people do really stupid things. Take Dylon Hartley for example. Apparently he is a real sound bloke and well liked - just he loses control every now and again.

You're got to love the way people look up to and admire Joey Barton because he quotes 'Philosophy for Dummies'. He's a chav, but I guess he's a popular chav. Strange that folk on here follow his Twitter though. Well, maybe not so strange in some cases!

Hard to argue with Cyril (Minus the insult for no reason).

In comparison Joey Essex, a man famed for being a rich pretty kid who stumbled into a faux reality show, and made a career on being the most ignorant human being in the country has 3.3m followers...

IT doesn't hurt that Barton tweets daily, generally either ripping off cheap philosiphies that most chavs get tattoo'd on their backs, or reiterating popular mythology about English player development and the EPL in the hope to either seem knowledgable, or get back into football somehow.

Do you need oxygen up there lads?

lostinwales wrote:Our Joey is obviously a complex character. On the one hand spouting pseudo BS on Twitter, on the other getting himself sent off for elbowing someone in the face 5 minutes into a game that could have determined if his club (which he was captaining) was going to be relegated.

He might write interesting stuff but he would not have got as many followers if he was not such a controversial figure.

Still you are welcome to follow who you like

Ah, so its he who is controversial now. Just above you were claiming he had all these followers because he wrote controversial stuff.

Make your mind up.

Philosophy for Dummies? Now, ain't nobody got time for that!

Thank God I only know Barton from a vague memory of a sunken jawed guy with overly big dark eyes?

Is that him?

I looked him up and.... nope, I don't think Joey is the guy I'm thinking of. Sorry Joey. Must'a been another 'Chav' Philosopher.

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

It isnt. I have been to the Lacrosse world cup final in Prague a few years ago and I have watched Duke play in North Carolina. It honestly isnt a patch on Gaelic football. Take a trip to the All Ireland championship in Croke Park and then make a call but trust me Lascosse does not come close.

I tried once. It was made perfectly clear that an Englishman was not wanted and would be lucky not to be hospitalised. So my hosts suggested we leave. Match had not even started.

What game were you at? Who were your hosts (i.e., were they locals supporting one of the teams?

I really find it hard to believe that an English accent would be any sort of a problem in this country?

Sin é wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

It isnt. I have been to the Lacrosse world cup final in Prague a few years ago and I have watched Duke play in North Carolina. It honestly isnt a patch on Gaelic football. Take a trip to the All Ireland championship in Croke Park and then make a call but trust me Lascosse does not come close.

I tried once. It was made perfectly clear that an Englishman was not wanted and would be lucky not to be hospitalised. So my hosts suggested we leave. Match had not even started.

What game were you at? Who were your hosts (i.e., were they locals supporting one of the teams?

I really find it hard to believe that an English accent would be any sort of a problem in this country?

I've been at the all Irelands and on the Hill with English friends, never had a problem before!

Sad to hear you had though London!!!!

ebop wrote:Damn, hurling looks insane! What are the balls like, more cricket ball than tennis ball? Massive crowd in that Kilkenny v Tipperary final, awesome.

Its hard (like a baseball), has a cork core covered by leather.

Sin é wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Our Joey is obviously a complex character. On the one hand spouting pseudo BS on Twitter, on the other getting himself sent off for elbowing someone in the face 5 minutes into a game that could have determined if his club (which he was captaining) was going to be relegated.

He might write interesting stuff but he would not have got as many followers if he was not such a controversial figure.

Still you are welcome to follow who you like

Ah, so its he who is controversial now. Just above you were claiming he had all these followers because he wrote controversial stuff.

Make your mind up.

There is no conflict in what I am saying, other than I know of him a little because he is a controversial figure, and if he is a controversial figure he is likely to produce controversial tweets. If his tweets are all intellectual 'n' stuff then obviously I am missing out - but then I'll just have to live with it.

He can be both controversial and type controversial BS

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Lacrosse so much better than Gaelic football.

It isnt. I have been to the Lacrosse world cup final in Prague a few years ago and I have watched Duke play in North Carolina. It honestly isnt a patch on Gaelic football. Take a trip to the All Ireland championship in Croke Park and then make a call but trust me Lascosse does not come close.

I tried once. It was made perfectly clear that an Englishman was not wanted and would be lucky not to be hospitalised. So my hosts suggested we leave. Match had not even started.

Thats absolutely ridiculous, there are some really braindead people out there. Sorry to hear you had that experience.

Is Joey Barton the one who put on a French accent after playing there for 2 weeks?

nathan wrote:Is Joey Barton the one who put on a French accent after playing there for 2 weeks?

Crickey, will you get over Joey Barton.

The point is this - he has 3 million followers and there is no such thing as bad publicity.

The interesting thing is that hurling, a new sport being shown to people outside of Ireland on Sky over 106K watching it even though England were playing India in cricket at the same time on another Sky channel (640K).

NFL attracted 88K (49ers v Cowboys)
PGA Golf attracted 108K
RUGBY - Aus v SA 78K

If the sport provides a good spectacle, it will attract viewers even if they don't know what the heck is going on. Rugby doesn't do that. Part of its attraction is its law complexity.

One fears the thread has some what lost its way...........

Chaps do us all a favour and try to comprehend a broader international competition as the end game, where the likes of the usa and china with Japan and russia provide more than equal opposition and where the traditional hierarchies are now history.

Rugby Union must find the ambition and grasp the opportunity to change.

7's is the game that every school age child should be playing.

ebop wrote:I read an article in the NZ Herald today about the new ABs jersey that had grippy material/seems for the shirts worn by forwards. I can't recall if this is standard or being explored in other national jerseys?

I think that this is not a very good idea. It might be ok in the scrums, but if you are a forward who likes to get around the field, having a shirt that is easier to grip/grab would make you easier to be tackled, I would prefer a coloured patch that stood out on the arm/shoulder where you could clearly see if the opposition was not binding onto it.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I dont want rugby to grow any bigger. With growth comes inevitable corruption and other negative side effects. Football for example for me is completely unwatchable because of all the cheating, corruption and other nonsense that comes with the ridiculous sums of money associated with the "sport". Professionalism and money is already beginning to ruin rugby particularly in the form of Toulon.

It is no surprise the that greatest sport in the world at the moment, gaelic football, is completely amature.

Just watched the excellent documentary on Paidi O Sé. Great scenes in Mullingar when Westmeath won the Leinster Championship for the first time. Were you there?

I was in Croke Park for the game (replay and draw too). It was great. Cant remember if I was in M'Gar after. Probably not.

kingelderfield wrote:One fears the thread has some what lost its way...........

Chaps do us all a favour and try to comprehend a broader international competition as the end game, where the likes of the usa and china with Japan and russia provide more than equal opposition and where the traditional hierarchies are now history.

Rugby Union must find the ambition and grasp the opportunity to change.

7's is the game that every school age child should be playing.

I dont want a broader competition though. I like the game as it is. If we try to force things we will end up with a WC in Qatar or some other dodgy place that has won their bid through bribes.

The only reason you would want USA, China, Japan or Russia to be good at rugby is because they are wealthy countries and that is not the right reason to want to promote or grow a sport in my opinion.

There is already a vortex of top players heading to Japan for the promise of high wages. Players are becoming a commodity and the sport a business. Can you honestly say that you were happy that Jaques Fourie went to Japan at the peak of his career and now Ezebeth and Pollard have signed up to do the same?

If World Rugby really wants to expand the game to wealthy countries their focus should be on developing a strong local rugby administrative set up with the aim of producing high quality local players. Not creating a mega league full of the biggest talent around the globe.

Sin E

I expect next you'll be trying to get Russell Brand to wear an Ireland rugby shirt....

He has 10.2m followers

No such thing as bad publicity... tell that to Ed Miliband who had Brand as an advocator of him during the general election.....

It's better to have celebrity support like Charles Dance and Daniel Craig which the England rugby team and Lions had respectively than Joey Barton!

beshocked wrote:Sin E

I expect next you'll be trying to get Russell Brand to wear an Ireland rugby shirt....

He has 10.2m followers

No such thing as bad publicity... tell that to Ed Miliband who had Brand as an advocator of him during the general election.....

It's better to have celebrity support like Charles Dance and Daniel Craig which the England rugby team and Lions had respectively than Joey Barton!

You don't get it do you? Its about fans of the actual sport, not a team.

It will take more than Daniel Craig or Charles Dance to get English people to like the England rugby team.

Obvious innit. We needed to have Barton tweeting about Rugby (union) instead of hurling then everything would have been wonderful

(All to too easy to write k instead of l with big clunky fingers)

lostinwales wrote:Obvious innit. We needed to have Barton tweeting about Rugby (union) instead of hurling then everything would have been wonderful

(All to too easy to write k instead of l with big clunky fingers)

Actually, it might not be a bad thing at all for rugby in England to have a few soccer players tweeting about rugby.

Hopefully everyone in England will be tweeting about it just after the world cup.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hopefully everyone in England will be tweeting about it just after the world cup.

I'm sure there was plenty of tweeting after the last world cup ⧣dwarfthrowing ⧣divingoffships

Who hasnt tossed a dwarf.

Whats peoples opinions on the current trend of having "alrounders / robots" in each position.

Props to Fb's have nigh on the same skill sets and requirements these days. Its becoming more like rugby league each season.

Is there still a place for the non rounded maverick matchwinner?

Yous lot are digustin'.  Leave vertically challenged Homo Sapiens (the correct PC terminology by the way) alone.  And no too to all you non-scientific Bartonesque 'chavs' out there - I am not being homophobic in calling dwarves Homo Sapiens.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Its becoming more like rugby league each season.

Isn't that the goal? Isn't that where the Rugby Union Money Marketers, Profiteers and Snake Oil Salesmen want to take it? - to a closer version of the clean, neat, fast and spectator friendly 'League' game.
I'd say the Porfessionalism Fertiliser Sect are seeing the job through efficiently step by step.

But league is sooooooooo boring Secret.

Do you think we'll ever reach the stage of the two codes re-merging

GeordieFalcon wrote:But league is sooooooooo boring Secret.

Do you think we'll ever reach the stage of the two codes re-merging

I'm with you there, Geordie.  I tried a few times over the years to watch a League game...and I seriously just can't.  It's quite simply a different game entirely.  If Union didn't exist, I'd never have been drawn to League.  

Union is messy and has so many different facets to keep you guessing and thinking and wondering.  League is for me Repetitive Monotonous Drafts.  Union is Chess that Hurts with endless possibilities to clog itself up in dirty tank warfare or break out into sublime Blitzkrieg.

Im the same mate.

All the same size.
Run in to a tackle. Stand up...next man runs in to a tackle...3 more times later...kick the ball to the other team....and now other team repeats!

Oh dear lord.

You forgot to mention the dry humping.

League has its moments and produces some fine athletes, but its not for me

Ah yes I forgot the dry humping....

Oh I dont doubt their physicality or their skills but I just don't like the game.

kingelderfield wrote:Here we all are bathing in our pre tournament blather, anxious, excited,  and yes some of us even quite a bit more than a little dejected by the lost opportunity that presents before us, but we won't let that divert us(no precious we won't....ed). And yet what is the question, what is the present future, what is the taste on the wind that speaks portentously of progress - what is it that is going to propel this majestic code of rugby forth - beyond its niche status in the global sports market place?

Will it be our RUGBY UNION WORLD CUP, undoubtedly the most successful rugby tournament ever to have existed? I fear not......

It's called the RUGBY WORLD CUP, not the RUWC. I do wish people would call it by its official patented name, not one dreamt up by Rugby League fans.

Nowt wrong with a bit of League

I quite often catch the Friday night games, especially if the Rhinos are playing.

League does have it's advantages. Less players on the pitch means more space and in general more tries. Less stoppages too.

League is certainly a lot more straightforward than Union. Could interpret that as boring/repetitive or simply more accessible.

I have watched many more games of union but it's nice to watch a league game once in a while (normally the challenge cup).

I find watching league is too similar to watching touch (Rugby / football, whatever they call it these days).

Theres a repetitive elemant of just driving up the middle X amount of times, before trying a trick play or kicking for territory, it's a lot like american football in that respect!