Wimbledon Day 8 - Will Keys unlock Radwanska? I should Coco.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:46 am

Order of play

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/22713811

by LuvSports! Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:58 am

by Aut0Gr4ph Tue 07 Jul 2015, 6:19 am

Love a bit of Supergrass!

by HM Murdock Tue 07 Jul 2015, 9:06 am

Djokovic v Anderson is puzzling me.

I can't decide if the break has saved Anderson in giving him a rest so can go back to launching bombs at Novak, or whether yesterday was his golden opportunity and it will be tough to play quite so well again today. Plus he doesn't have tie breaks today.

Novak has now had 4 sets of facing the Anderson serve, so he will probably have a better read on it today (prior to yesterday, they hadn't played in 3 years).

The big factor for me is that Anderson is serving first. That puts more pressure on Novak and he has a tendency to become more passive as the pressure builds.

My feeling is that if Novak gets a break in the first 6 games, he'll get the job done. After that, I lean more toward Anderson.

by biugo Tue 07 Jul 2015, 9:42 am

HM Murdoch wrote:Djokovic v Anderson is a puzzling me.

I can't decide if the break has saved Anderson in giving him a rest so can go back to launching bombs at Novak, or whether yesterday was his golden opportunity and it will be tough to play quite so well again today. Plus he doesn't have tie breaks today.

Novak has now had 4 sets of facing the Anderson serve, so he will probably have a better read on it today (prior to yesterday, they hadn't played in 3 years).

The big factor for me is that Anderson is serving first. That puts more pressure on Novak and he has a tendency to become more passive as the pressure builds.

My feeling is that if Novak gets a break in the first 6 games, he'll get the job done. After that, I lean more toward Anderson.

Agreed, and I would add that if either takes a break in the first 6 games and hold it right after, he'll be the hot favourite.

Djoko will use the first game to put as much pressure as he can (he won't already be passive on a first game, will he?) so it's crucial for Anderson to serve well from the start and hold it comfortably. Going to deuce from the start would give hope to Novak and lower Kevin's confidence.

Best way for Anderson to win first game: an ace, an unforced error by Novak, a winner and another ace Smile

by kingraf Tue 07 Jul 2015, 9:56 am

Interestingly, I think the only way Anderson could have won yesterday would have been if they played on centre in the fifth, where the indoor like conditions would have given his serve extra padding. He didn't have a prayer on court 1. But that was yesterday. Today, there's every chance Djokovic takes a while to get his "eye in" on the return. There's also the fact that in the recent matches I can can remember Djokovic coming back to complete the next day, he copped a but of a hiding first set back (vs Nadal RG12, vs Murray RG15).

by dummy_half Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:02 am

I think the break can only be good for Anderson - OK, his best chance was if he could have kept the quality up in the 3rd, but that chance went away very quickly, and Djoko had the momentum at the end yesterday. I also wonder if the cooling temperatures of the evening were helping Novak in making the Anderson serve slightly easier to return (would inevitably come through just a touch slower).

The weather is concerning me slightly at the moment - very grey with drizzle and some slightly harder showers just north of London. OK, the forecast for later looks OK, but imagine the problem if they have a wash out today? I guess they'd have to move them on to centre after the first ladies singles match.

by Jahu Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:03 am

Anderson to win on TB Fingers Crossed

by HM Murdock Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:18 am

Jahu wrote:Anderson to win on TB

No tie breaks on a 5th set.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:19 am

dummy_half wrote:I think the break can only be good for Anderson - OK, his best chance was if he could have kept the quality up in the 3rd, but that chance went away very quickly, and Djoko had the momentum at the end yesterday. I also wonder if the cooling temperatures of the evening were helping Novak in making the Anderson serve slightly easier to return (would inevitably come through just a touch slower).

The weather is concerning me slightly at the moment - very grey with drizzle and some slightly harder showers just north of London. OK, the forecast for later looks OK, but imagine the problem if they have a wash out today? I guess they'd have to move them on to centre after the first ladies singles match.

Again I agree. thumbsup

If that match had continued last night there was only going to be one winner for me. Djokovic is like a shark in that he sense weakness in the opponent like a shark smelling blood and feeds on it and gets stronger as the opponent wilts. Anderson's serves I'd guess were losing their sting after so long on court so for Anderson he'll come back today fresher and seeing it as a one-set shoot-out. Certainly the break came in the nick of time for him. I still think Novak will complete the job today though.

by Duty281 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:29 am

As has been said, all the momentum was on Djokovic's side last night and there would have only been one winner should the break have not arrived.

It's likely that he will still win, but then, there's no pressure on Anderson, and one mistake could be decisive.

by HM Murdock Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:30 am

kingraf wrote:Today, there's every chance Djokovic takes a while to get his "eye in" on the return. There's also the fact that in the recent matches I can can remember Djokovic coming back to complete the next day, he copped a but of a hiding first set back (vs Nadal RG12, vs Murray RG15).

This is true. Good point on the 'next day' matches.

Anderson's mindset will be interesting. He came out yesterday with nothing to lose and played very freely.

Today he knows he has something to lose. A one set shoot out to make the Wimbledon QF. Will he still have the confidence to paint the lines like he did yesterday? Or will the raised stakes make him play the odds a bit more?

It's also perhaps significant that a win today can only come with a break of serve. Anderson only broke Novak once in 4 sets yesterday.

My fear is that it may turn on one of Novak's classic lapses. One of those games where he goes 0-40 down on three unforced errors.

Based on what I saw yesterday, Anderson won't fold mentally.

by biugo Tue 07 Jul 2015, 10:46 am

Imo, Anderson lost his best opportunity of sealing the match when he failed to break Novak for the set at 6-5 in the second set. At the moment, Kevin had all the momentum, was on cruise control on his serve... but it went on a TB where Djoko started to lead 4-0:
the impact is that a set that could have ended fairly easily for Anderson became a tight and tense win - it took his momentum away.

Had he won 7-5, he would have served first in the third, right after breaking Novak again ,and with all his momentum still there. He might have had that TB fight to win the third set instead of the second...

This break is a good thing for Anderson, as he was never going to take the fifth yesterday night

by sirfredperry Tue 07 Jul 2015, 11:09 am

Djoko in five would have been the outcome had they had time to finish last night. Don't think Anderson would have felt too bad coming off as they did at around 9pm. The momentum was with Nole.
Very surprised it's gone this far, but then maybe Djoko was due a shaky match. He didn't exactly waltz to the title last year, dropping a number of sets. It's the worst I've seen him play for ages, yet he'll probably go on to win.
As for today, Azashrieker is the only player left who can trouble Serena. Could be a good - if noisy- match. Could Coco spring a surprise ? Not sure Maria S is in great form.

by HM Murdock Tue 07 Jul 2015, 11:22 am

sirfredperry wrote:It's the worst I've seen him play for ages, yet he'll probably go on to win.

I didn't think he was too bad. Not great, certainly, but not awful.

I looked to me more that Anderson was producing the performance of a lifetime. Novak looked lost against his serve. Couldn't get a read on it at all. But it wasn't just Anderson's serve. His groundstrokes were all catching the lines and his volleying was top drawer.

That's what makes me nervous today. I don't think Novak has a lot of room to raise his game. If Anderson recreates yesterday's form, it's going to be very tough indeed, even if Novak plays well.

by prostaff85 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 11:36 am

I don't see Andersen playing any better than yesterday (except maybe a slightly higher 1st serve %), whereas Novak is likely to raise his level compared to those first two sets.

However with such a strong serve one always has a chance. I would say 80/20 to Djokovic.

by Jahu Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:06 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:
Jahu wrote:Anderson to win on TB
No tie breaks on a 5th set.

Why do you ruin everything for me?

Djoko fans picard

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:38 pm

And it's raining which means Novak and Kevin still can't finish. Ludicrous. They should have finished in centre yesterday or at least today. Their match is the priority

by bogbrush Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:41 pm

temporary21 wrote:And it's raining which means Novak and Kevin still can't finish. Ludicrous. They should have finished in centre yesterday or at least today. Their match is the priority

I really disagree with switching Courts unless the event is on its knees.

I do agree he should have been on Centre, World #1 & defending champion should get a break - maybe being against an unseeded player did it? The irony is that if he'd swapped with Fed they'd both be complete by now.

by VTR Tue 07 Jul 2015, 12:57 pm

Women's quarter final day and what is everyone (quite rightly in my view) talking about - the end of a men's match. I still find it staggering that the women are paid the same, the men should demand double or refuse to play!

by HM Murdock Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:01 pm

bogbrush wrote:
temporary21 wrote:And it's raining which means Novak and Kevin still can't finish. Ludicrous. They should have finished in centre yesterday or at least today. Their match is the priority
I really disagree with switching Courts unless the event is on its knees.

I do agree he should have been on Centre, World #1 & defending champion should get a break - maybe being against an unseeded player did it? The irony is that if he'd swapped with Fed they'd both be complete by now.

Kevin Anderson is seeded and he's seeded higher than Bautista-Agut!

I don't have any complaints about Novak being on Court 1.

My complaint is about scheduling a Bo5 match at 6pm with only 3 hours of daylight available. That's just asking for problems and it's the players who pay the price.

by biugo Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:02 pm

VTR wrote:Women's quarter final day and what is everyone (quite rightly in my view) talking about - the end of a men's match. I still find it staggering that the women are paid the same, the men should demand double or refuse to play!

Don't worry though, the balance you're asking for exist already as the bulk of player's revenue is their sponsors.

by HM Murdock Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:07 pm

VTR wrote:Women's quarter final day and what is everyone (quite rightly in my view) talking about - the end of a men's match. I still find it staggering that the women are paid the same, the men should demand double or refuse to play!

This hints at what I see as the unfair aspect.

It's nothing to do with bo3 v bo5 or time on court. It's about revenue.

The men currently generate much more revenue for an event than the women. Giving them the same prize money means the men are getting a smaller share of what they create.

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:09 pm

Grrrr bloody rain!!! Who does this on off situation favour?

by bogbrush Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:10 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
temporary21 wrote:And it's raining which means Novak and Kevin still can't finish. Ludicrous. They should have finished in centre yesterday or at least today. Their match is the priority
I really disagree with switching Courts unless the event is on its knees.

I do agree he should have been on Centre, World #1 & defending champion should get a break - maybe being against an unseeded player did it? The irony is that if he'd swapped with Fed they'd both be complete by now.
Kevin Anderson is seeded and he's seeded higher than Bautista-Agut!

I don't have any complaints about Novak being on Court 1.

My complaint is about scheduling a Bo5 match at 6pm with only 3 hours of daylight available. That's just asking for problems and it's the players who pay the price.

Right, in which case he should have been on CC.

On the other point, a bit of intelligence would also have been useful. Federer plays fast, short points. Djokovic doesn't so much (on break points he bounces the ball for close to a Federer love service hold Smile

). Federer's opponent was always going to have a walk-on part in an exhibition, Anderson can play a bit. So the outcome wasn't entirely unpredictable.

by VTR Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:11 pm

biugo wrote:
VTR wrote:Women's quarter final day and what is everyone (quite rightly in my view) talking about - the end of a men's match. I still find it staggering that the women are paid the same, the men should demand double or refuse to play!

Don't worry though, the balance you're asking for exist already as the bulk of player's revenue is their sponsors.

Fair point, though I would like to see the tokenism of the equal prize money removed. I am not dead against the women's game or anything, it can be entertaining in its own right but the men's doubles for example is better to watch but gets very little coverage.

by sirfredperry Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:12 pm

Usual b****ocks from Wimbledon officials. Rain around so they DON'T shut the roof on centre. Players knock up - then off for rain. Ooh it's an outdoor tournament, say the officials. We try to play without the roof if at all possible.
If it looks at all dodgy weatherwise - get the roof closed. It's hardly rocket science.

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:12 pm

I mean as a forum, most of our users are interested primarily in menus tennis. We certainly can't make you take an interest in the women's draw. At the moment men's tennis is the more interesting environment, if someone could actually stand up to serena it might not be like this

by bogbrush Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:13 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:
VTR wrote:Women's quarter final day and what is everyone (quite rightly in my view) talking about - the end of a men's match. I still find it staggering that the women are paid the same, the men should demand double or refuse to play!
This hints at what I see as the unfair aspect.

It's nothing to do with bo3 v bo5 or time on court. It's about revenue.

The men currently generate much more revenue for an event than the women. Giving them the same prize money means the men are getting a smaller share of what they create.

Here's the market speaking....

https://www.wimbledondebentureholders.com/buy-wimbledon-tickets/wimbledon-centre-court-tickets

If you had week 1 in there you'd see that almost any day with guaranteed mens play is more expensive than the womens final.

by biugo Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:13 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:
VTR wrote:Women's quarter final day and what is everyone (quite rightly in my view) talking about - the end of a men's match. I still find it staggering that the women are paid the same, the men should demand double or refuse to play!
This hints at what I see as the unfair aspect.

It's nothing to do with bo3 v bo5 or time on court. It's about revenue.

The men currently generate much more revenue for an event than the women. Giving them the same prize money means the men are getting a smaller share of what they create.

But the prize money is not indexed to the tournament revenue... And as you say it's "currently": the rise of the new tennis stars in WTA (Hingis, Henin, Clijsters, Williams...) put the women's tour in the spotlight when the ATP was kind of slow on big names - it was the right opportunity to set equal prize money.

And think also about the lower ranked player, those for whom touring is not an easy feat financially. It's not easy already, imagine how it would be with half the prize money.

by kingraf Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:15 pm

To be fair, if I'm performing for half an hour, and you're performing for five hours, but people came to see me, I'd be livid if you earned the same as me. The difference of course, is that right now, people are more interested in the four hour performance. But you have to remember that when equal pay came to the fore, the WTA was easily the more attractive of the two (I believe the ATP was actually in serious financial trouble as well?). The women struck while the iron was hot and fair play to them. You can't really reverse the trend without it looking (and if I'm honest, probably being) a sexist matter.

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:18 pm

My main concern is that you cannot possibly play men's singles and doubles and expect to be there in the finals here. Posposil has do e well but he's gonna be knackered tomorrow. Women can easily play both, which means they have the advantage of more revenue. As the ladies have their own day at this point, they should play best of 5 from here on. A better match and more fair. Also take some money out the singles and put it into some bloody doubles!

by HM Murdock Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:22 pm

The problem with women's tennis is that it is just ATP-lite.

It's played basically the same way but not as well. Anchored on the baseline, with less power and more screeching.

If the relative lack of power in the women's game made them compensate by producing a game based on craft and guile, the 'product' could still be very good.

McEnroe said last week that if Justine Henin came out of retirement now, she'd still be a top 5 player. I think he's right. Her game was a class above anyone but Serena.

by Haddie-nuff Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:25 pm

Im all in favour of women getting equal pay if they are doing an equal job to man..that is how it should be women fought many years for that right.
However, as a woman, I am strongly opposed to women getting equal pay in tennis,. they are not doing an equal job for their money.
The sport is sexist. Women like Serena Williams tee me off. Last year when asked to "give us a twirl" she went ranting off because she thought it to be a sexist remark. Ok Serena want to be treated like a man? then play like one

by AlciG Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:33 pm

I'm surprised nobody here is talking about the Dawn Fraser interview

by VTR Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:34 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:

McEnroe said last week that if Justine Henin came out of retirement now, she'd still be a top 5 player. I think he's right. Her game was a class above anyone but Serena.

Says it all about the state of the women's game - you look at the list of names in the QFs and the main reaction is "who?". I think that's because there's a dearth of quality out there, so players are of a broadly similarly poor standard, they come and go in the rankings and no-one is a sustained challenger to Serena.

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:36 pm

The Nick Kyrgios thing? I have a feeling there'll be a lot of that in his career. He tanked, annoyed an old fashioned sportsman and things have blown up and got out of hand

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:37 pm

I mean If the interview was word for word then that's the wrong way to express annoyance. It dies t excuse nicks behaviour though

by HM Murdock Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:37 pm

biugo wrote:But the prize money is not indexed to the tournament revenue... And as you say it's "currently": the rise of the new tennis stars in WTA (Hingis, Henin, Clijsters, Williams...) put the women's tour in the spotlight when the ATP was kind of slow on big names - it was the right opportunity to set equal prize money.

It's not indexed to anything. It is, ultimately, an arbitrary decision to pay the men and women the same.

Why is the doubles prize money not the same as the singles? Why is the mixed doubles money not the same as same-sex doubles?

Because they can't draw the same audience or generate the same revenue.

So this principle is generally recognised in prize money allocation but is ignored for equality of outcome between genders.

by kingraf Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:38 pm

What I find astonishing is that the balls used by men and women have neglible difference, and yet Serena, at 5'9 can serve it at 130mph, as can Lisicki who's maybe an inch taller. By comparison, once a guy is under 6', everyone goes, it's a shame about his height, could have been a decent server.

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:40 pm

Anderson is out all guns blazing Novak though has his serve up and running. 1-1

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:42 pm

Berankis was short. His serve was quite big though. It's a mindset thing. A 6 foot woman is quite tall so they think they should get a big serve. Smaller guys though work on other things assuming they won't get one

by VTR Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:46 pm

I would also say if you get a 130mph serve in anywhere in the women's game that'll be a winner. A 130mph men's serve also has to be well directed

by AlciG Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:48 pm

VTR wrote:I would also say if you get a 130mph serve in anywhere in the women's game that'll be a winner. A 130mph men's serve also has to be well directed

Not really a fair comparison as on average women have a way smaller reach so obviously they will get to less big serves

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:50 pm

Well 130 in the women's game is huge. It's like a 145 in the men's game, it's huge. 130 isn't that uncommon in the men's

by temporary21 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:51 pm

Novak saves 2 break points... 2-2

by VTR Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:51 pm

AlciG wrote:
VTR wrote:I would also say if you get a 130mph serve in anywhere in the women's game that'll be a winner. A 130mph men's serve also has to be well directed

Not really a fair comparison as on average women have a way smaller reach so obviously they will get to less big serves

That's exactly the point I am making - in response to the query as to why more shorter men's players don't concentrate on having a 130mph serve, there is less value in doing it so as temporary says, they probably focus on other aspects of their game

by slashermcguirk Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:55 pm

Anderson hardly missing a single serve! Not a lot that djokovic can do here but hope he starts missing with some of these bullets!

by Haddie-nuff Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:57 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:Anderson hardly missing a single serve! Not a lot that djokovic can do here but hope he starts missing with some of these bullets!

Novak shouting at a ball boy/girl furious

by kingraf Tue 07 Jul 2015, 1:58 pm

Becker looks like a blowfish more and more with every year

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